Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 249 - AVS Forum
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post #7441 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 08:28 AM
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Thanks a lot for your apparition in this thread Ed. Now can you tell us if SVS customers that have bought SB12s in the last year can "upgrade" (under SVS Bill of Right Policy #6) to a dual-SB12s? I.e. can they buy a second SB12 for the price difference between the bundle and a single SB12?

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post #7442 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Thanks a lot for your apparition in this thread Ed. Now can you tell us if SVS customers that have bought SB12s in the last year can "upgrade" (under SVS Bill of Right Policy #6) to a dual-SB12s? I.e. can they buy a second SB12 for the price difference between the bundle and a single SB12?

Any purchases made after 11-29-2011 (with a few exceptions who were very close and grandfathered in) are covered by the policies shown in our Bill Of Rights.

The trade-up policy was designed to cover someone returning their existing subwoofer and purchasing a new one. The policy states the customer will receive full credit for the original purchase if he pays to return ship the original subwoofer and also pays to forward ship the new upgraded subwoofer.

Ostensibly anyone who currently owns an SB12-NSD would not be returning it, if they were considering upgrading to duals. So yes, we will cover any SB12-NSD purchases made on/after 11-29-2011, and in the particular case of the dual SB12-NSD package, the customer will pay the difference between what he originally paid and the current package price, plus forward shipping on the second subwoofer.

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post #7443 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

interesting that you mention a model name change. When you moved to full wrap for the PB12+ and others, the name didn't change.

+1. My guess is that they will change the name to the SB13Ultra due to it using an ultra woofer. I assume that the demise of the SB16 ultra may also have something to due with the name change to Ultra.
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post #7444 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

So yes, we will cover any SB12-NSD purchases made on/after 11-29-2011, and in the particular case of the dual SB12-NSD package, the customer will pay the difference between what he originally paid and the current package price, plus forward shipping on the second subwoofer.

That's great news for at least a few people in this thread I guess. However if you charge shipping for the 2nd sub I guess the total price will be pretty close to just buying another single SB12.

I myself bought an SB12 on 11-29-2011 (great day to do that isn't it?). However I bought it from Sonicboomaudio, SVS's exclusive canadian distributor. I already asked them and they won't abide by all of SVS Bill of Rights. In particular, they claim the used sub market in Canada is not large enough to be able to offer Rule #6. However since getting a dual-SB12 setup does not involve actually returning an SB12, maybe Sonicboom would be willing to do something about it.

Alas the point is moot since I prefer spending what is left of my WAF points on a bigger model once we have a dedicated HT room

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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

+1. My guess is that they will change the name to the SB13Ultra due to it using an ultra woofer. I assume that the demise of the SB16 ultra may also have something to due with the name change to Ultra.

Would make sense considering it's using an Ultra woofer with an Ultra amp. I'm still scratching my head about the Plus name.

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post #7445 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

+1. My guess is that they will change the name to the SB13Ultra due to it using an ultra woofer. I assume that the demise of the SB16 ultra may also have something to due with the name change to Ultra.

No moss growing on you kesando. Any model name change will be about better positioning within the line-up as it relates to the other SVS lines/models.

The PB12-Plus uses a Plus woofer and a Plus amp, so while the cabinet change to a full-wrap gloss or black oak resulted in a price bump, the model name was certainly still appropriate.

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post #7446 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

That's great news for at least a few people in this thread I guess. However if you charge shipping for the 2nd sub I guess the total price will be pretty close to just buying another single SB12.

I myself bought an SB12 on 11-29-2011 (great day to do that isn't it?). However I bought it from Sonicboomaudio, SVS's exclusive canadian distributor. I already asked them and they won't abide by all of SVS Bill of Rights. In particular, they claim the used sub market in Canada is not large enough to be able to offer Rule #6. However since getting a dual-SB12 setup does not involve actually returning an SB12, maybe Sonicboom would be willing to do something about it.

At least in the States, shipping on an SB12-NSD is very inexpensive (<$30) so even with shipping included, taking advantage of the upgrade policy by paying the difference on the second subwoofer is still a much better deal (by about $85) than simply purchasing a second subwoofer with free shipping, even with our 5% returning customer discount.

While Sonic Boom Audio is an authorized SVS reseller, they are an independent business, and are free to set their own policies as it relates to our BOR, and I don't believe they are offering a dual SB12-NSD package anyway. But it certainly can't hurt to ask Mason about it.

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post #7447 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

While Sonic Boom Audio is an authorized SVS reseller, they are an independent business, and are free to set their own policies as it relates to our BOR, and I don't believe they are offering a dual SB12-NSD package anyway. But it certainly can't hurt to ask Mason about it.


Just so I'm clear about it: I received as good a service from Sonicboom as with SVS. The night before I decided to buy my SB12 I fired two emails -- one to SVS and the other to Sonicboom -- asking for some info. (Actually no, I just wanted to be told that my choice was the good one ). The next morning checking my mail at 7 AM I had two replies. Jack Gilvy from SVS had answered me at 6:30 AM. But Mason actually beat him; I got his reply at 11:45 PM the day before

I fully understand that Sonicboom is a separate business and is not in any way obligated to follow SVS's rules. They still have very good policies (45-day return, 3 year warranty, very low shipping costs) and I will likely do business with them again when I'm ready to buy my second SVS sub. It would be very, very tempting if they offer a rebate on a second SB12... However I think I shall pile up some money for one of the PCs instead. I'm eager to find out what I'm missing with my "baby sealed".

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post #7448 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Just so I'm clear about it: I received as good a service from Sonicboom as with SVS. The night before I decided to buy my SB12 I fired two emails -- one to SVS and the other to Sonicboom -- asking for some info. (Actually no, I just wanted to be told that my choice was the good one ). The next morning checking my mail at 7 AM I had two replies. Jack Gilvy from SVS had answered me at 6:30 AM. But Mason actually beat him; I got his reply at 11:45 PM the day before

I fully understand that Sonicboom is a separate business and is not in any way obligated to follow SVS's rules. They still have very good policies (45-day return, 3 year warranty, very low shipping costs) and I will likely do business with them again when I'm ready to buy my second SVS sub. It would be very, very tempting if they offer a rebate on a second SB12... However I think I shall pile up some money for one of the PCs instead. I'm eager to find out what I'm missing with my "baby sealed".

Thanks for that; Mason and SBA have been a very good business partner with SVS and works hard to uphold our high standards for CS.

The PC12-NSD has considerably more low-end output capability than the SB12-NSD, which is only natural considering its much larger enclosure size and bass reflex alignment. So if you are looking for more slam/impact/pressure on HT applications, the PC12-NSD is a fine choice.

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post #7449 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

The PC12-NSD has considerably more low-end output capability than the SB12-NSD, which is only natural considering its much larger enclosure size and bass reflex alignment. So if you are looking for more slam/impact/pressure on HT applications, the PC12-NSD is a fine choice.

I chose the SB12 because of several factors (small room, low to moderate volume listening, not entirely dedicated to HT, small budget, small form factor). In that regard the SB12 is probably one of my best purchase ever as it fits the bill from A to Z.

I recently purchased an SPL meter and performed some room response measurements, and it seems I'm getting considerable room gain. I know I'd get room gain with a bigger sub too; but I think I achieve very interesting performances with the SB12. So I'm completely happy with it.

But of course, given infinite resources I would just pack my house full of Ultras or something. Actually I guess I would have to build a bunker for that. I never heard any of the big boys, so now that know what the SB12 can do, I'm very, very curious about SVS's ported subs.

The thing is, now is not a good time, with a young kid and probably another one in a not-so-distant future. Time is lacking for lots of HT use and when there's time, it's often not a good idea to turn up the volume. The PC (will it be an NSD, a Plus as Merlin suggests... or an Ultra?) will have to wait a few years at least. When my *kids* ask for more slam/impact on their movies, don't worry, they will get it...

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post #7450 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm very, very curious about SVS's ported subs.

They're bonkers, even the little baby junior PC12-NSD. I'm trying to convince myself to buy a second one because everybody says I'm supposed to and because it would enhance my pride of ownership and general badassery, but I'm gonna feel like a damn fool with two of these in a second-floor apartment, especially when I've never seen the limiter indicator light up.

Still I want more excuses to buy SVSound subs, so I'll probably snag an SB12 for my music room.

Question for anybody: My music room is nice and small (I like to call it "intimate") and horribly cube-like (11x10.5x9). In a space this small, is it better to address the overlapping modes problem with additional subs, or with treatments? SB12s are very small, but in this space, two of this kind of sub will eat a large amount of real estate; and it seems like an extreme overkill. Still I want the best bass response that I can reasonably afford there. If you were in this situation, how would you approach it?

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post #7451 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 11:45 AM
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They're bonkers, even the little baby junior PC12-NSD. I'm trying to convince myself to buy a second one because everybody says I'm supposed to and because it would enhance my pride of ownership and general badassery, but I'm gonna feel like a damn fool with two of these in a second-floor apartment, especially when I've never seen the limiter indicator light up.

Still I want more excuses to buy SVSound subs, so I'll probably snag an SB12 for my music room.

Question for anybody: My music room is nice and small (I like to call it "intimate") and horribly cube-like (11x10.5x9). In a space this small, is it better to address the overlapping modes problem with additional subs, or with treatments? SB12s are very small, but in this space, two of this kind of sub will eat a large amount of real estate; and it seems like an extreme overkill. Still I want the best bass response that I can reasonably afford there. If you were in this situation, how would you approach it?
I would start with one considering how small that room is unless you have multiple seating positions. I have a smaller and less powerful Emotiva Ultra 10 in a room about that size (my bedroom) and it does quite well at the main seating position (my bed).
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post #7452 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

I would start with one considering how small that room is unless you have multiple seating positions. I have a smaller and less powerful Emotiva Ultra 10 in a room about that size (my bedroom) and it does quite well at the main seating position (my bed).

Are your room's proportions nearly cubic, like mine?

Where do you park your subwoofer in that room?

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post #7453 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

because it would enhance my pride of ownership and general badassery, but I'm gonna feel like a damn fool with two of these in a second-floor apartment, especially when I've never seen the limiter indicator light up.

Same thing here (except I just own the SB12). Never seen the limiter LED. Somehow I just picture the room with a water-heater-sized sub in one corner. Room modes be damned -- I purchased a BFD and EQing the biggest offenders produces quite a smooth response.

I would just have trouble reselling the SB12 in my small town and the canadian distributor does not do upgrades. Also I don't have the budget. You'll say the PC12-NSD is only $100-150 more than the SB12; but if I upgrade, why not upgrade for real Merlin suggests a Plus for me (although it doesn't take room size into account) but if I'm putting $1300 on the table, you know, I may as well go all the way to $1800.

Which would be probably as ridiculous as putting two PC12s in a second-floor appartment. And it would be totally useless in my present situation in which I struggle to watch a single movie per month or play videogames for more than 2h/week. Most of the time with headphones because everybody else is sleeping.

That's why I need a bunker...

Quote:


Question for anybody: My music room is nice and small (I like to call it "intimate") and horribly cube-like (11x10.5x9). In a space this small, is it better to address the overlapping modes problem with additional subs, or with treatments?

Place two SB12s in opposite corners. And by opposite corners, I mean hang the second one on the ceiling I know I know but that would probably yield very good results with no footprint. Just don't hang it above your bed or listening position.

On a more serious note, I'd try 1/3 wall from a corner and EQ it if you still find the sound too boomy for your tastes.

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post #7454 of 17393 Old 04-10-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Are your room's proportions nearly cubic, like mine?

Where do you park your subwoofer in that room?

My room is 10x12x8 and the sub is placed about 1-2 feet from the front wall next to my dresser. I get some pretty decent room gain in this room down low with no noticeable nulls. I do have a bit of a peak around 50 hz though.

The sub is connected to a pair of bamboo Audioengine A5s and the system is music only.
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post #7455 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

I've got our Shop guys working on some possible solutions to avoid shipping the subwoofer back, and we'll get back to you from Customer Service in the AM. Thanks!

Port rattle issue = resolved

Many thanks to Ed, Eli, and Jack over at SVS. Best support and customer service I've seen!
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post #7456 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 01:03 PM
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Hey Ed, while we're on the subject on product revisions/upcoming projects, I know the SB16 ultra never came out due to the price of neo magnets used in the driver but what about Sledge STA1250 DSP amp? Is it possible that we will ever see that amp used in a future new/revised product?

For example, if the PB13 Ultra's driver can handle twice the power it gets now, then why not use it in that application?

Just curious
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post #7457 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 02:45 PM
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Port rattle issue = resolved!

Would you elaborate on how it was fixed?
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post #7458 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Hey Ed, while we're on the subject on product revisions/upcoming projects, I know the SB16 ultra never came out due to the price of neo magnets used in the driver but what about Sledge STA1250 DSP amp? Is it possible that we will ever see that amp used in a future new/revised product?

For example, if the PB13 Ultra's driver can handle twice the power it gets now, then why not use it in that application?

Just curious

Here's my guess FWIW. The power a speaker can handle without damage is typically much more than the power it can respond to linearly. Given that SVS builds very high performance subs, there's no reason to feed the driver so much power that it stops getting a dB louder for each dB of increased signal. Good engineering IMO.
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post #7459 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 03:41 PM
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Here's my guess FWIW. The power a speaker can handle without damage is typically much more than the power it can respond to linearly. Given that SVS builds very high performance subs, there's no reason to feed the driver so much power that it stops getting a dB louder for each dB of increased signal. Good engineering IMO.

Agreed. I do appreciate I am wondering though what will become of Sledge STA-1250 though.
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post #7460 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 03:58 PM
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I would really like to see a dual-opposed sealed design from SVSound. Yeah, I know, everybody cares...

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #7461 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 04:52 PM
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Agreed. I do appreciate I am wondering though what will become of Sledge STA-1250 though.

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I would really like to see a dual-opposed sealed design from SVSound. Yeah, I know, everybody cares...

light bulb moment

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post #7462 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 04:57 PM
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light bulb moment

Dual PB13-Ultra, mmmmmmmmmmmm!
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post #7463 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 05:07 PM
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light bulb moment

Using the 13" variant of the Plus driver that was in the SB13 or the 12.5"?

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post #7464 of 17393 Old 04-13-2012, 06:07 PM
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Using the 13" variant of the Plus driver that was in the SB13 or the 12.5"?

Maybe a dual opposed plus driver with the 1250 amp? Dual 13 drivers would be wide as hell.

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post #7465 of 17393 Old 04-14-2012, 04:04 AM
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Maybe a dual opposed plus driver with the 1250 amp? Dual 13 drivers would be wide as hell.

Yes, I think dual 13s would be too large, too expensive and too heavy, by far. I'd be more personally interested in a dual Plus or especially a dual NSD. Such a design wouldn't necessarily require a huge amplifier, since the efficiency of each driver would be higher (is that true or did I imagine it in a dream?)

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post #7466 of 17393 Old 04-14-2012, 06:20 AM
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Hey guys, i recently purchase a used of course, SVS PB12 ultra. Hard to find info on this guy, i know its a few years old, but just recently seen a deal come up for a pc13 ultra new in box. Just wondering how these stack up. I was playing some video games with mine a few weekends ago and didnt realize my onkyo had sub set at +4, i had the gain on the back of the plate amp set up just under half and heard it bottom out/ pop. Didnt think it would do that with having the sub sonic filter set properly. But im thinking it was maybe a clipped signal from the receiver? i have 1 port plug in for a 16hz tune. Also to be honest i thought it would have gotten louder then what it did. seemed stressed? its 9.5" away from the back wall.
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post #7467 of 17393 Old 04-15-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Hey Ed, while we're on the subject on product revisions/upcoming projects, I know the SB16 ultra never came out due to the price of neo magnets used in the driver but what about Sledge STA1250 DSP amp? Is it possible that we will ever see that amp used in a future new/revised product?

For example, if the PB13 Ultra's driver can handle twice the power it gets now, then why not use it in that application?

Just curious

I have a few 1300W Sledge platforms floating around - it's an impressive piece of hardware, but you are correct it was indeed developed for the 16U woofer, which was shelved due to skyrocketing neo costs. It's not needed for the rest of the Ultra line-up.

Stating a woofer can 'handle' a given amount of power is a bit vague. We like to look at the system behavior at each test frequency and determine if more power will actually benefit the subwoofer performance. As it stands, the Ultra platforms perform well with the 1KW Sledge amp from thermal, mechanical, compression, and distortion standpoints.

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post #7468 of 17393 Old 04-15-2012, 05:15 PM
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I have a few 1300W Sledge platforms floating around - it's an impressive piece of hardware, but you are correct it was indeed developed for the 16U woofer, which was shelved due to skyrocketing neo costs. It's not needed for the rest of the Ultra line-up.

Stating a woofer can 'handle' a given amount of power is a bit vague. We like to look at the system behavior at each test frequency and determine if more power will actually benefit the subwoofer performance. As it stands, the Ultra platforms perform well with the 1KW Sledge amp from thermal, mechanical, compression, and distortion standpoints.

Thanks Ed for the detailed answers. I (we) really appreciate your time. I love how linear and well rounded SVS subs are instead of just focusing on max output at a given frequency so I understand what you mean.

Still, I hope to see the sledge 1250 used in a future product.
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post #7469 of 17393 Old 04-18-2012, 07:15 AM
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I have a question maybe someone can help with. I purchased 2 SB13+'s back in November. We ended up moving and I was just able to get them back into the HT set up. I noticed that one of the subs makes these little pops occasionally. I assume this is from the sub turning on and off. The other does not exhibit the behavior. I tried to swap them around and this one sure still pops while the other does not. I have tried to swap the cables, try the same outlet the other sub is plugged into. It happens mostly when I watch TV at lower volumes where there is little sub activity. My wife seems to notice it and it happens 3 or 4 times during an hour long sitcom. Being that it only happens with one sub, should I call SVS?

I have a Denon 4311 receiver if that helps with 2 sub outs.

The old Energy EXLS:10 sub it replaced never had this problem and still works well to this day.

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post #7470 of 17393 Old 04-18-2012, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tron1974 View Post

I have a question maybe someone can help with. I purchased 2 SB13+'s back in November. We ended up moving and I was just able to get them back into the HT set up. I noticed that one of the subs makes these little pops occasionally. I assume this is from the sub turning on and off. The other does not exhibit the behavior. I tried to swap them around and this one sure still pops while the other does not. I have tried to swap the cables, try the same outlet the other sub is plugged into. It happens mostly when I watch TV at lower volumes where there is little sub activity. My wife seems to notice it and it happens 3 or 4 times during an hour long sitcom. Being that it only happens with one sub, should I call SVS?

I have a Denon 4311 receiver if that helps with 2 sub outs.

The old Energy EXLS:10 sub it replaced never had this problem and still works well to this day.

Definitely send us a note at custservice@svsound.com. Sounds like the amp needs to be swapped out. It's a quick/easy procedure - we'll give you all you need once you contact us. Thx.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Relations
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"

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