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post #7441 of 25143 Old 04-15-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

I have a few 1300W Sledge platforms floating around - it's an impressive piece of hardware, but you are correct it was indeed developed for the 16U woofer, which was shelved due to skyrocketing neo costs. It's not needed for the rest of the Ultra line-up.

Stating a woofer can 'handle' a given amount of power is a bit vague. We like to look at the system behavior at each test frequency and determine if more power will actually benefit the subwoofer performance. As it stands, the Ultra platforms perform well with the 1KW Sledge amp from thermal, mechanical, compression, and distortion standpoints.

Thanks Ed for the detailed answers. I (we) really appreciate your time. I love how linear and well rounded SVS subs are instead of just focusing on max output at a given frequency so I understand what you mean.

Still, I hope to see the sledge 1250 used in a future product.
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post #7442 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 08:15 AM
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I have a question maybe someone can help with. I purchased 2 SB13+'s back in November. We ended up moving and I was just able to get them back into the HT set up. I noticed that one of the subs makes these little pops occasionally. I assume this is from the sub turning on and off. The other does not exhibit the behavior. I tried to swap them around and this one sure still pops while the other does not. I have tried to swap the cables, try the same outlet the other sub is plugged into. It happens mostly when I watch TV at lower volumes where there is little sub activity. My wife seems to notice it and it happens 3 or 4 times during an hour long sitcom. Being that it only happens with one sub, should I call SVS?

I have a Denon 4311 receiver if that helps with 2 sub outs.

The old Energy EXLS:10 sub it replaced never had this problem and still works well to this day.

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post #7443 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tron1974 View Post

I have a question maybe someone can help with. I purchased 2 SB13+'s back in November. We ended up moving and I was just able to get them back into the HT set up. I noticed that one of the subs makes these little pops occasionally. I assume this is from the sub turning on and off. The other does not exhibit the behavior. I tried to swap them around and this one sure still pops while the other does not. I have tried to swap the cables, try the same outlet the other sub is plugged into. It happens mostly when I watch TV at lower volumes where there is little sub activity. My wife seems to notice it and it happens 3 or 4 times during an hour long sitcom. Being that it only happens with one sub, should I call SVS?

I have a Denon 4311 receiver if that helps with 2 sub outs.

The old Energy EXLS:10 sub it replaced never had this problem and still works well to this day.

Definitely send us a note at custservice@svsound.com. Sounds like the amp needs to be swapped out. It's a quick/easy procedure - we'll give you all you need once you contact us. Thx.

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post #7444 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 08:28 AM
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I'd call or write SVS, they have good techs and service, and should steer you straight.

I'd also check to see if both subs have the same on/off/auto settings. If the sub that pops is on "Auto" and the sub that doesn't is set to "Always On," the pops may be when the sub is waking up. Most sitcoms don't have a ton of bass, and the sub might be going in to standby mode. This is just a guess based off of previous experience with another brand of subs.

It is easy to check and be sure. Overall though, check with SVS.

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post #7445 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 08:29 AM
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^^^
Or Ed can jump in.

Man, I tell people SVS is fast, but it still amazes me.

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post #7446 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 09:22 AM
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Thanks! Sending SVS a note shortly.

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post #7447 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Man, I tell people SVS is fast, but it still amazes me.

+100

I have only had my dual PC/PB12NSD's for a few months, but have talked to SVS several times and they were always super helpful. Hoping I can talk the wife into using the 1yr trade-up policy for dual plus's
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post #7448 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 01:15 PM
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Just got a new PB12-nsd with the sledge amp. I also have a PB10-nsd. Could I saidy chain these two together using the line out from the PB12? Would I gain much? Just something I'm thinking about doing.
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post #7449 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Just got a new PB12-nsd with the sledge amp. I also have a PB10-nsd. Could I saidy chain these two together using the line out from the PB12? Would I gain much? Just something I'm thinking about doing.

Yes - the unfiltered line-out is just a direct pass-through. You will get big gains by running them together; more headroom and a smoother FR at more listening locations.

Before set-up, make sure they are the same polarity:

- place them both side-by-side
- set the phase on both to 0 degrees
- level match them to the same SPL using the AVR sub rumble tone
- then play them both together

They should add 6 dB of output, indicating they are the same polarity and in phase. If the SPL tanks, the pop open the PB10-NSD and reverse the woofer leads or the amp leads. This (while harder to do) is preferable to setting the phase to 180 on one sub.

As for me being Johnny On The Spot - I just get email notices (like most of us) when there is a post to a thread I'm subscribed to. So it's easy to jump over and make a post quickly.

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post #7450 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

Yes - the unfiltered line-out is just a direct pass-through. You will get big gains by running them together; more headroom and a smoother FR at more listening locations.

Before set-up, make sure they are the same polarity:

- place them both side-by-side
- set the phase on both to 0 degrees
- level match them to the same SPL using the AVR sub rumble tone
- then play them both together

They should add 6 dB of output, indicating they are the same polarity and in phase. If the SPL tanks, the pop open the PB10-NSD and reverse the woofer leads or the amp leads. This (while harder to do) is preferable to setting the phase to 180 on one sub.

As for me being Johnny On The Spot - I just get email notices (like most of us) when there is a post to a thread I'm subscribed to. So it's easy to jump over and make a post quickly.

Thanks for the reply, but...

Level matching could be an issue since I don't have a spl meter. I guess I will have to look into getting a decent unit.

My avr doesn't have a rumble tone so I will have to find another source for that.

As for opening the PB10, I'm not sure I want to do that since it's only 2.5 years old and has a lot of warranty left
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post #7451 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Thanks for the reply, but...

Level matching could be an issue since I don't have a spl meter. I guess I will have to look into getting a decent unit.

My avr doesn't have a rumble tone so I will have to find another source for that.

As for opening the PB10, I'm not sure I want to do that since it's only 2.5 years old and has a lot of warranty left

If you don't have an SPL meter and your AVR can't generate manual test tones, then you can level match the subs by ear.

It will be very obvious if they are in phase as +6 dB is quite noticeable. It will be equally obvious if they are out of phase, as the SPL will tank about 12 dB.

Reversing the leads on the PB10 (if needed) is not grounds to void the warranty - don't worry about that. If you don't feel comfortable opening up the subwoofer, then set the phase to 180 instead. Again, this will only be needed on the off-chance the subs are opposite polarity/phase (always possible when dealing with two subs with different vintage/amps).

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post #7452 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

If you don't have an SPL meter and your AVR can't generate manual test tones, then you can level match the subs by ear.

It will be very obvious if they are in phase as +6 dB is quite noticeable. It will be equally obvious if they are out of phase, as the SPL will tank about 12 dB.

Reversing the leads on the PB10 (if needed) is not grounds to void the warranty - don't worry about that. If you don't feel comfortable opening up the subwoofer, then set the phase to 180 instead. Again, this will only be needed on the off-chance the subs are opposite polarity/phase (always possible when dealing with two subs with different vintage/amps).

Okay, I'll give it a shot and see what happens. The room isn't very big at 12w x 14 l x 8 h. and I never thought to daisy chain the subs until I noticed the line out on the PB12.
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post #7453 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Okay, I'll give it a shot and see what happens. The room isn't very big at 12w x 14 l x 8 h. and I never thought to daisy chain the subs until I noticed the line out on the PB12.

You can always use a Y splitter at the AVR jack too - whatever is easiest.

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post #7454 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

You can always use a Y splitter at the AVR jack too - whatever is easiest.

The line out from the PB12 would be easier because I would have to go through my entire "junk" cabinet to find my y-jack
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post #7455 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 02:06 PM
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The line out from the PB12 would be easier because I would have to go through my entire "junk" cabinet to find my y-jack

I know how that is - I keep all my spare AV stuff in those big plastic bins. Signal integrity will be fine using the pass-through; it's a direct physical connection.

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post #7456 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

I know how that is - I keep all my spare AV stuff in those big plastic bins. Signal integrity will be fine using the pass-through; it's a direct physical connection.

I just finished a quick test.

Without recalibrating my avr, the bass output is definitely higher.

After re-running my avr's sound equalization program, music didn't really sound any different. I guess that's because the discs I tried didn't stress the PB12 at all so I wouldn't expect it to be any different with the PB12 and PB10. If the PB12 were being stressed, I would have expected the 10/12 combo to be better.

I quickly tried the derailment scene from the Super 8 Blu-ray. Here, the bass was loud and clear and really shook the room However, I could also clearly hear "turn it down"

The problem now is trying to justify using the PB10 in the same system as the PB12
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post #7457 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

I just finished a quick test.

Without recalibrating my avr, the bass output is definitely higher.

After re-running my avr's sound equalization program, music didn't really sound any different. I guess that's because the discs I tried didn't stress the PB12 at all so I wouldn't expect it to be any different with the PB12 and PB10. If the PB12 were being stressed, I would have expected the 10/12 combo to be better.

I quickly tried the derailment scene from the Super 8 Blu-ray. Here, the bass was loud and clear and really shook the room However, I could also clearly hear "turn it down"

The problem now is trying to justify using the PB10 in the same system as the PB12

Glad to hear they are in phase. What I recommend is that you:

- carefully level match both subs
- place them on the front stage in the corners or at the 1/3 and 2/3 wall points (flanking the center channel near the mains)
- re-run auto-set-up to level match both subs with the speakers

Listen to several music and movie tracks, evaluating not so much for max SPL as for an improvement in sound quality, reduced localization and a smoother FR at more listening positions.

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post #7458 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 05:04 PM
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My favorite scene to evaluate changes in my system are the first few minutes in Transformers: Revene of the Fallen in DTS-HD MA including the studio intro that has some really cool low bass sweeps.

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post #7459 of 25143 Old 04-18-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

Glad to hear they are in phase. What I recommend is that you:

- carefully level match both subs
- place them on the front stage in the corners or at the 1/3 and 2/3 wall points (flanking the center channel near the mains)
- re-run auto-set-up to level match both subs with the speakers

Listen to several music and movie tracks, evaluating not so much for max SPL as for an improvement in sound quality, reduced localization and a smoother FR at more listening positions.

I played with the subs some more and matched them as closely as possible. I have tower speakers for the fronts with one in each corner.

The sound is quite good from my primary listening position with either the PB10 or PB12. With both subs in play, I can't say that the sound is better from my primary listening position. As I move around the room, the bass seems much less localized and even throughout the room. The sound with both subs in play probably doesn't make a difference with the SACDs I used to test the system. These SACDs included Roxy Music Avalon, Streisand Movie Album, Dire Straits Brothers In Arms, Steely Dan Gaucho. I also played Jennifer Warnes The Hunter on CD. They all sounded great.

Moving on to BR movies, I tried Super 8, Dark Knight, The Matrix, and Gamer. Again, they all sounded great. With both subs in play, I boosted the bass signal from the avr and the place was really shaking Unfortunately, I didn not have the Transformers disc to test my system.

I quickly re-ran my movie test using only the PB12 with boosted bass and it also sounded great. I don't think it was really any worse than running both subs.

This experiment taught me a couple of important things: (1) don't sell the PB10 and (2) the PB12 is perfectly capable of handling bass duties in my ht system
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post #7460 of 25143 Old 04-19-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

However, I could also clearly hear "turn it down"

*This*... this is the reason why I don't spend all my discretionary income on subwoofers

Ed, how much for a cardioid array that would keep the bass in the living room?

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post #7461 of 25143 Old 04-19-2012, 08:32 AM
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*This*... this is the reason why I don't spend all my discretionary income on subwoofers

A lack of funds is one reason I am selective about what i purchase
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post #7462 of 25143 Old 04-20-2012, 12:42 AM
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Can you hear any difference between SB12-NSD and PB12-NSD when playing music at levels both subs can handle?

What would the main differences between 2 PB12-NSD vs 1 PB12-PLUS?

Thanks for any replies!
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post #7463 of 25143 Old 04-20-2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by slowturn View Post

Can you hear any difference between SB12-NSD and PB12-NSD when playing music at levels both subs can handle?

What would the main differences between 2 PB12-NSD vs 1 PB12-PLUS?

Thanks for any replies!

It depends on the source material. The PB12-NSD extends a bit deeper, so if the source material has deep bass content (pipe organ, hip-hop, rap, trance, dub-step) then you will probably notice the PB12-NSD extending deeper.

Conversely on most other musci source material (rock, pop, jazz, progressive) which doesn't have much content <30 Hz, the two subs will sound much more alike than different at low to moderate levels on music.

The biggest difference between the two subs is in their respective max output capabilities in the 18-36 Hz octave, where the much larger/heavier vented PB12-NSD naturally has the advantage and this will manifest itself most notably on HT source material at louder playback levels. The SB12-NSD aquits itself quite well on HT in smaller room at moderate playback levels, but for mid-size rooms at higher playback levels where more slam/impact/pressure is desired, the PB12-NSD is a better choice.

The PB12-Plus can be tuned to 16 Hz, has premium finish options, and only takes up the space for a single subwoofer - those are the main advantages over dual PB12-NSD. Dual PB12-NSD would have overlapping modal responses with a smoother FR at more locations in the room, but take up the space of dual subs, and have more visual impact in the room. The decision really boils down to the particular needs and restrictions of each application.

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post #7464 of 25143 Old 04-20-2012, 08:19 AM
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I'm considering whether to go with a smaller sealed sub or a larger ported sub for my basement room, which is 25 x 13.5 x 7 (approx. 2700 cubic feet) with an L shaped opening at the rear (see the attached floorplan).

Gear is an Onkyo 709 with Audyssey MultEQ XT, ACI Sapphire 25th anniversary L & R (flat to 40Hz), ACI Protege center (flat to 80Hz), and DefTech Mythos Gem XL surrounds (roll off at 90Hz).

Use is 65% movies, 35% music, 0% gaming.

Budget is < $1,000.

In terms of form factor, the PB12-NSD is right at the limit of what WAF will allow. I considered an Epik Legend, but the size and weight would kill the deal.

We don't listen at high SPLs, mostly because we don't want to wake our infant daughter. That said, I'm coming from a 1998 REL Strata II, so almost anything will have more bass response!

All opinions appreciated.
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post #7465 of 25143 Old 04-20-2012, 08:30 AM
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I'm considering whether to go with a smaller sealed sub or a larger ported sub for my basement room, which is 25 x 13.5 x 7 (approx. 2700 cubic feet) ....
We don't listen at high SPLs, mostly because we don't want to wake our infant daughter. That said, I'm coming from a 1998 REL Strata II, so almost anything will have more bass response!

wouldn't two sb12 exceed your budget?

I would say a single pb12 would suffice if you prefer dealing with one sub and you will still get more extension than two sb12s. Two sb12s would give you more even bass, how do you find the bass response in your room right now?

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post #7466 of 25143 Old 04-20-2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

wouldn't two sb12 exceed your budget?

I would say a single pb12 would suffice if you prefer dealing with one sub and you will still get more extension than two sb12s. Two sb12s would give you more even bass, how do you find the bass response in your room right now?

Two SB12's would be a stretch of the budget, although I could always purchase the second one later. It's hard to judge bass response in my room with only the REL to judge by. That sub was great for two-channel in a smaller space, but quickly freaks out when confronted with foley effects such as explosions, etc. I haven't measured it, but I doubt I'm getting much information below 30Hz. My seating position is about 11' from the front wall and the sub is against the wall about 6' from the corner, so I'm not getting much corner boost. Thanks!
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post #7467 of 25143 Old 04-20-2012, 08:56 AM
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yah, i would go for the pb12, the sb12 makes more sense for smaller rooms where there is some room gain and/or you can corner load both of them. If your primary use is movies, most of the time a ported sub will shine more in that situation.

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post #7468 of 25143 Old 04-23-2012, 12:23 PM
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yah, i would go for the pb12, the sb12 makes more sense for smaller rooms where there is some room gain and/or you can corner load both of them. If your primary use is movies, most of the time a ported sub will shine more in that situation.

Thanks to SVS customer service and to the folks here at AVS, I just ordered a PB12-NSD for my basement HT. I'm really looking foward to having REAL bass in that space. I've sold my 1998 REL Strata II and have been using a cute little Velodyne 10" from my living room system as a stopgap. While I'm waiting for the SVS to arrive, I'll play some Saint-Saens' organ symphony for my wife so that she can compare the sound of the 10" Velodyne to what the SVS will do. I'm sure it will be night and day!
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post #7469 of 25143 Old 04-23-2012, 02:20 PM
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I just recently picked up a PC12+ sub on eBay for what I think is a great price ($585) and I was curious about what driver this sub has. It has the 525 watt BASH amp in it and is only a few years old, I think it was part of the last generation with the BASH amp and it has four feet connecting the cylinder to the base plate. (not sure if that matters, I think some of the older ones had 3 feet, just trying to localize the original build time)I can narrow the time frame a little more just by knowing that its indeed a PC12+ and not a 20-39PC+. Is the driver in this sub the same or close to the driver being put in the current line of PC12+'s with the sledge amps in them? I do know that it's not aluminum. I've been searching google for a few days and can't seem to get any definitive info. I figured someone in the forums would be able to help me out.

Also one more thing,
I've been hearing about the customer service at SVS for quite some time and after getting this sub I can now confirm what I've been hearing. I called SVS (on a Saturday no less) and spoke to a guy named Doug, who was quite a cool dude, and he walked me through the entire calibration process as I did it with him on the phone, and my system has never sounded better. In contrast I emailed Pioneer to ask them a question about my reciever on Friday and just finally got a response telling me I should call them instead today (Monday). Any kind of company that is willing to spend the time to help everyone who owns their equipment, even second hand buyers, is one I will continue to deal with. I am thrilled to be an SVS owner, this PC12+ is unlike anything I've ever heard.

Panasonic P60U54
Marantz SR-7009
Polk Audio RTi8's, CSi5, RTi6's, OWM3's
SVSound PC12 Plus, PC Ultra (12")
Sony BDP-S7200
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post #7470 of 25143 Old 04-23-2012, 07:40 PM
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Perfect home for an American Cherry SB13+... snug as a bug:



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