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post #17071 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
has anyone here ever seen the cea-2010 max burst data


for the sb13u or the pc12 plus...


maybe looking at that might help me decide what subs to buy..


Jack at svs said he would email it to me yesterday .. but later said he's is waiting on some updated data.. .......


cheers
Look at the sealed mode on the PB13 over at data-bass.com that will get you close to the SB13 capabilities. Subtract 3db from the PB13 numbrs from 25hz on up, then subtract 4.5db from 16-20hz and that will get you close to the PC12+ numbers. The cylinder subs are down about 1.5db from 20hz and below to the PB subs.
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post #17072 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 10:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Look at the sealed mode on the PB13 over at data-bass.com that will get you close to the SB13 capabilities. Subtract 3db from the PB13 numbrs from 25hz on up, then subtract 4.5db from 16-20hz and that will get you close to the PC12+ numbers. The cylinder subs are down about 1.5db from 20hz and below to the PB subs.
like to see the distortion numbers max pass spl db. like that chart..
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post #17073 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 01:18 PM
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They will be 10-15%...SVS always clamps the output with their limiter so THD never surpases 10-15% for the most part. The Cylinders have a bit more THD from 20hz and below. I would not get too hung up on the distortion numbers. Those are only relevant for the absolute max spl which you more then likely will never run the sub that hard. If you do then you need go bigger or add another. Lowering the output 1db can reduce thd 50% also placing the sub in room will lower THD significantly.
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post #17074 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 02:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Look at the sealed mode on the PB13 over at data-bass.com that will get you close to the SB13 capabilities. Subtract 3db from the PB13 numbrs from 25hz on up, then subtract 4.5db from 16-20hz and that will get you close to the PC12+ numbers. The cylinder subs are down about 1.5db from 20hz and below to the PB subs.


wow amazing got some nice numbers from big Ed at svs.. spread is a bit bigger than the 4.5db more like 6-5.. 12 to 25hz.. then 4-3 upto 50


but the pc 12 plus plays cleaner at 16 hz.. then the pc or pb 13 u


thanks
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post #17075 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
They will be 10-15%...SVS always clamps the output with their limiter so THD never surpases 10-15% for the most part. The Cylinders have a bit more THD from 20hz and below. I would not get too hung up on the distortion numbers. Those are only relevant for the absolute max spl which you more then likely will never run the sub that hard. If you do then you need go bigger or add another. Lowering the output 1db can reduce thd 50% also placing the sub in room will lower THD significantly.
It's actually incredible how little THD there is from SVS subs, even at very low frequencies. While I don't necessarily think THD is the most important thing to consider (because as you say, it only really matters at max spl which you are seldom, if ever, dealing with) the numbers from SVS are impressive.

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post #17076 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by accordex View Post
Hi guys, so my pb-2000 is waiting for me at home. It is replacing a bic F-12. Would it be a bad idea to run the svs and bic in a dual setup? I want dual subs, however it's hard to spend that kind of cash.
Also what about a pb-1000 with the 2000?
The bic is no slouch and fills my room nicely with pretty good bass, so im hoping the svs will be miles beyond that.
Also do i need to break the svs in at lower volumes at first? I don't want to push it too hard and break it.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Would really like to know your thoughts between the two when you get a chance to compare them. I went with a PB-2000, but was close to pulling the trigger on something similar to the BIC before.
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post #17077 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post

but the pc 12 plus plays cleaner at 16 hz.. then the pc or pb 13 u


thanks
No, it doesn't. Whichever sub has the highest output is going to play the cleanest at that frequency. If you take the PB13 Ultra's max burst at 16 Hz of 105.1 dB with distortion of 14.33%, distortion would be close to zero at 104 dB, which is going to be much higher output than the PC12 plus can play at any distortion level.

If you look at any subs max burst output, and back it down even 1 dB, you are going to have very clean, distortion free bass.

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post #17078 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
wow amazing got some nice numbers from big Ed at svs.. spread is a bit bigger than the 4.5db more like 6-5.. 12 to 25hz.. then 4-3 upto 50


but the pc 12 plus plays cleaner at 16 hz.. then the pc or pb 13 u


thanks
Really, can you pm me some details thanks.

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post #17079 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 08:34 PM
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Ok, so the second Pb12-nsd got 12 hours on it and I just threw on the pod scene from War of the Worlds.

Holy SH*T

When the pod emerges it feels like an earthquake. My huge sectional was shaking back and forth with me in it. And it is loud. I'm guessing I was in a null with just the one, because the laser shooting part never really did much for me. Now I can feel the impact hard.

My wife was in the other room reading to my sign, I warned her what was about to happen. She yelled at me to turn it off, said things in his room were rattling and it was loud. Wanted to try out a few more of my favorites but it's bedtime for the kiddo. I almost feel like taking a day off from work just so I can have 9 hours of interrupted fun. I know how much people here rave about adding a second sub, you don't fully understand til you actually get one.

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post #17080 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 08:34 PM
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Ok, so the second Pb12-nsd got 12 hours on it and I just threw on the pod scene from War of the Worlds.

Holy SH*T

When the pod emerges it feels like an earthquake. My huge sectional was shaking back and forth with me in it. And it is loud. I'm guessing I was in a null with just the one, because the laser shooting part never really did much for me. Now I can feel the impact hard.

My wife was in the other room reading to my son, I warned her what was about to happen. She yelled at me to turn it off, said things in his room were rattling and it was loud. Wanted to try out a few more of my favorites but it's bedtime for the kiddo. I almost feel like taking a day off from work just so I can have 9 hours of interrupted fun. I know how much people here rave about adding a second sub, you don't fully understand til you actually get one.
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post #17081 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
No, it doesn't. Whichever sub has the highest output is going to play the cleanest at that frequency. If you take the PB13 Ultra's max burst at 16 Hz of 105.1 dB with distortion of 14.33%, distortion would be close to zero at 104 dB, which is going to be much higher output than the PC12 plus can play at any distortion level.

If you look at any subs max burst output, and back it down even 1 dB, you are going to have very clean, distortion free bass.

so I should be looking at ultra then.. and not use all the power... ?


the cleanest sub I saw so far was the paradigm sub 2.. some readings at 1%


cheers
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post #17082 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 08:59 PM
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I do not think you understood Ed's info. I have seen graphs of the PC13 and PB, the PB plays cleaner and has slightly more output in the 16-20hz. Lectre83 posted some graphs a while back showing the difference.
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post #17083 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 09:00 PM
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The CEA2010 max burst output is designed to give you an idea of a subwoofers maximum output that will sound clean. So whether the distortion shows 4% or 14%...if it passes, it will sound clean. A dB in either direction will usually drastically affect distortion. So it is just a way to compare max clean output capabilities...you won't be able to tell the difference in sound until distortion surpasses the test limits.

As far as which sub to buy, purchase the one that meets your output needs, gives you the extension you want, is the size you want, the price you want, the looks you want, from the company you like, with the warranty you want. For some, cost is no object and they want the prettiest sub in the smallest package even if its performance is less than a sub that is half the price but is too large or does not have as nice of a finish. Maximum clean output capability is simply one of the performance metrics on which to base your purchase decision. For me, maximum clean output down to 16 Hz within my size and budget constraints were my deciding factors, along with warranty and perceived company credibility/stability.

You probably would not want to buy a sub with 1% distortion at 20 Hz if its max output was 90 dB. The sub with 10% distortion and 110 dB at 20 Hz, will probably have 1% distortion while producing SPL's of 108 dB...or you could get 15 or 20 of the other sub to match the output.

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Last edited by bear123; 06-18-2014 at 09:03 PM.
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post #17084 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I do not think you understood Ed's info. I have seen graphs of the PC13 and PB, the PB plays cleaner and has slightly more output in the 16-20hz. Lectre83 posted some graphs a while back showing the difference.
Yes it is correct for Ultra and different is very low but it is there but for Plus PC or a PB do same talking about output.

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post #17085 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Yes it is correct for Ultra and different is very low but it is there but for Plus PC or a PB do same talking about output.
Something about a Ultra, Plus PC, and a PB..beyond that....absolutely no clue what you are trying to say.

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post #17086 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 10:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The CEA2010 max burst output is designed to give you an idea of a subwoofers maximum output that will sound clean. So whether the distortion shows 4% or 14%...if it passes, it will sound clean. A dB in either direction will usually drastically affect distortion. So it is just a way to compare max clean output capabilities...you won't be able to tell the difference in sound until distortion surpasses the test limits.

As far as which sub to buy, purchase the one that meets your output needs, gives you the extension you want, is the size you want, the price you want, the looks you want, from the company you like, with the warranty you want. For some, cost is no object and they want the prettiest sub in the smallest package even if its performance is less than a sub that is half the price but is too large or does not have as nice of a finish. Maximum clean output capability is simply one of the performance metrics on which to base your purchase decision. For me, maximum clean output down to 16 Hz within my size and budget constraints were my deciding factors, along with warranty and perceived company credibility/stability.

You probably would not want to buy a sub with 1% distortion at 20 Hz if its max output was 90 dB. The sub with 10% distortion and 110 dB at 20 Hz, will probably have 1% distortion while producing SPL's of 108 dB...or you could get 15 or 20 of the other sub to match the output.
a lot of psa subs have distortion # up at 25% 33% way higher than svs...
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post #17087 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Something about a Ultra, Plus PC, and a PB..beyond that....absolutely no clue what you are trying to say.

SVS Ultra subs PB have a little better performance then PC Ultra model not much but little but Pluses models are same PB and PC models.

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post #17088 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 10:26 PM
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Did you guys even try SVS speakers? How they are lets say compare to Klipsch? i just never read any plus or minus about SVS speakers.

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post #17089 of 18824 Old 06-18-2014, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
a lot of psa subs have distortion # up at 25% 33% way higher than svs...
Correct. Different design approaches. SVS chooses to restrict the output of their subs at lower distortion thresholds than what is allowed by CEA2010 standards. So the output is often restricted before allowable distortion levels are reached. PSA tends to be less restrictive on their subs in that regard. Both approaches have their merits.

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post #17090 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 01:54 PM
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I will pass along some information I have from a conversation with SVS. I was wanting to get a little more power out of my sub. Currently the sub gain is at -16. Audyssey (I've got a Denon 2112) sets my sub gain at -10. I am currently running the sub 5db hot, so -5 on the AVR. I was wanting a tiny bit more power, and spoke with SVS on whether or not I should adjust the sub on the AVR and run even hotter then I already am, or if I should adjust the sub itself. Their advice at this point was a bump on the sub gain. I'm going to try it, but still worries me because I know Audyssey is doing some level of sub equalization. All things considered though, I think Audyssey is far too conservative with bass.

Not sure if I'm going to try anything yet, but I figured I would pass it along in case anybody else out there has the same issue.

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post #17091 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I will pass along some information I have from a conversation with SVS. I was wanting to get a little more power out of my sub. Currently the sub gain is at -16. Audyssey (I've got a Denon 2112) sets my sub gain at -10. I am currently running the sub 5db hot, so -5 on the AVR. I was wanting a tiny bit more power, and spoke with SVS on whether or not I should adjust the sub on the AVR and run even hotter then I already am, or if I should adjust the sub itself. Their advice at this point was a bump on the sub gain. I'm going to try it, but still worries me because I know Audyssey is doing some level of sub equalization. All things considered though, I think Audyssey is far too conservative with bass.

Not sure if I'm going to try anything yet, but I figured I would pass it along in case anybody else out there has the same issue.
It's common knowledge that Audyssey isn't the end-all-be-all of setting a system up. It usually sets front main speakers to large and very conservative on the sub. I don't have it and I don't like it.
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post #17092 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 02:27 PM
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I'll only answer once on the double post.
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post #17093 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 03:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I will pass along some information I have from a conversation with SVS. I was wanting to get a little more power out of my sub. Currently the sub gain is at -16. Audyssey (I've got a Denon 2112) sets my sub gain at -10. I am currently running the sub 5db hot, so -5 on the AVR. I was wanting a tiny bit more power, and spoke with SVS on whether or not I should adjust the sub on the AVR and run even hotter then I already am, or if I should adjust the sub itself. Their advice at this point was a bump on the sub gain. I'm going to try it, but still worries me because I know Audyssey is doing some level of sub equalization. All things considered though, I think Audyssey is far too conservative with bass.

Not sure if I'm going to try anything yet, but I figured I would pass it along in case anybody else out there has the same issue.

hey an upgrade to the x4000 denon would be a big improvement in the audyssey room correction..


cheers
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post #17094 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 03:33 PM
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^Upgrading solves everything

In all honesty that is something I plan to eventually do (though likely a X4000 replacement). Right now however I'm working my way through a two year long project to replace all my speakers and want to get that done first.

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post #17095 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Did you guys even try SVS speakers? How they are lets say compare to Klipsch? i just never read any plus or minus about SVS speakers.
There are a few reviews of the SVS speakers, all positive for what it's worth.

They will have a very different sound than Klipsch, less bright, warmer with a likely better detailed midrange.

SVS has the same trial with their speakers as they do with their subs, so if you're really interested then give them a call.

If you're main use is HT (movies, games, TV) then I think klipsch is a good choice. I'm happy with mine.

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post #17096 of 18824 Old 06-19-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Quote:Originally Posted

If you read enough of this thread you will read lots of things. Theres no absolutely correct way to adjust sub volume/avr sub volume. I have seen some of the most respected and knowledgeable people at AVS have differing opinions on the subject. Some say you should never touch the sub volume at the sub after running the room correction software and some say its fine to do so. One thing nearly everyone agrees on however is that you shouldnt run the sub volume on the + side in the AVR.



AllenA07: the above quote by Bond 007 is a reply to a similar post a few weeks ago, and I think it is a great summation of the various perspectives and opinions out there regarding sub/AVR volume settings.


[QUOTE=AllenA07;25100594]I will pass along some information I have from a conversation with SVS. I was wanting to get a little more power out of my sub. Currently the sub gain is at -16. Audyssey (I've got a Denon 2112) sets my sub gain at -10. I am currently running the sub 5db hot, so -5 on the AVR. I was wanting a tiny bit more power, and spoke with SVS on whether or not I should adjust the sub on the AVR and run even hotter then I already am, or if I should adjust the sub itself. Their advice at this point was a bump on the sub gain. I'm going to try it, but still worries me because I know Audyssey is doing some level of sub equalization. All things considered though, I think Audyssey is far too conservative with bass.


My approach to sub/AVR settings is as follows (and was given a thumbs up by three different SVS reps ) : initial sub volume setting of -16 ... resulting in an Audyssey AVR level of -6.0 ... I then raised the sub volume to -6 for a maximum, and then when I want to lower the bass for certain content, I adjust the AVR sub level downwards.

There are so many factors at work here in our attempt to achieve an ideal sound from our systems ... we are trying our best, and we should realize that while not perfect, the end results are relatively pretty darn good compared to what so much of the rest of the world is able to experience ... good luck and enjoy !

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post #17097 of 18824 Old 06-21-2014, 08:48 AM
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Has anyone gotten the itch with all the subs in the outlet store to upgrade or increase their subs? I am thinking about adding a few more PC12 plus's.


I would like to DIY but I just don't have the time, so my thought is to get another set of 12+'s and when I have the time sell my subs and build my own. I like this idea especially since the outlet store has at least when I checked 3 Plus's for a pretty good price with the warranty yet.

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post #17098 of 18824 Old 06-21-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Has anyone gotten the itch with all the subs in the outlet store to upgrade or increase their subs?
Probably almost everyone.
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post #17099 of 18824 Old 06-21-2014, 10:07 AM
 
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I got an itch omg its a burning desire for some bad ass subs...
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post #17100 of 18824 Old 06-21-2014, 10:22 AM
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I also got an itch. But, my doctor gave me a cream to put on it.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000
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