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post #17101 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 10:22 AM
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Picking up my Klipsch RF7II's next Sunday. I think I'll be out of room for any more subs unless I start stacking them. My room is only 2000 cu ft. Not sure I would benefit with another Ultra.

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post #17102 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Has anyone gotten the itch with all the subs in the outlet store to upgrade or increase their subs? I am thinking about adding a few more PC12 plus's.


I would like to DIY but I just don't have the time, so my thought is to get another set of 12+'s and when I have the time sell my subs and build my own. I like this idea especially since the outlet store has at least when I checked 3 Plus's for a pretty good price with the warranty yet.
I've been eyeing those plusses as well. I have 2 PB-2000s and 2 PB12-NSDs for my theater that's in the semi final stages but I'm wondering if I should get the plusses. I've been talking with Darren at SVS about my room and he said the nsd's will play nicely with the 2000s but I don't like seeing the limiter light come on with the nsd's.

Anyone with a theater in a basement on a slab have a pair of plusses? I built a platform for increased tactile feel but I'm wondering if one or both subs need to physically be ON the platform for that tactile sensation. I'm wired for 4 subs, 2 up front and 2 in the rear.
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post #17103 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 12:44 PM
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I got an itch, but it's for a new bicycle.

Pretty happy with my current setup. It's hard to believe but putting the def tech into the mix really made a big difference.

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post #17104 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Picking up my Klipsch RF7II's next Sunday. I think I'll be out of room for any more subs unless I start stacking them. My room is only 2000 cu ft. Not sure I would benefit with another Ultra.

My room is about 1600 cu. ft. so I would say you need a few more. I am getting the JTR 228's and am hoping they do not over run my current subs.


Hockey, The subs do not need to be on the raise platform for you to feel the tactile effects.

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post #17105 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 04:57 PM
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My room is about 1600 cu. ft. so I would say you need a few more. I am getting the JTR 228's and am hoping they do not over run my current subs.


Hockey, The subs do not need to be on the raise platform for you to feel the tactile effects.
Really? I thought the slab would eat up most if not all of the bass if I only had two (or 4) up front. Hmm if what you're saying is true then I would probably rather have all 4 up front or grab those two plusses. Guess I'll have to experiment but thanks for the info.
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post #17106 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post
I've been eyeing those plusses as well. I have 2 PB-2000s and 2 PB12-NSDs for my theater that's in the semi final stages but I'm wondering if I should get the plusses. I've been talking with Darren at SVS about my room and he said the nsd's will play nicely with the 2000s but I don't like seeing the limiter light come on with the nsd's.

Anyone with a theater in a basement on a slab have a pair of plusses? I built a platform for increased tactile feel but I'm wondering if one or both subs need to physically be ON the platform for that tactile sensation. I'm wired for 4 subs, 2 up front and 2 in the rear.
Lowly me has but just one on a lower floor, concrete slab with laminate on top. Was just having fun with it using Black Hawk Down - definitely no need for a platform. I do run it with an older SVS ported sub - amazing what a difference the PC12+ has made
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post #17107 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Picking up my Klipsch RF7II's next Sunday. I think I'll be out of room for any more subs unless I start stacking them. My room is only 2000 cu ft. Not sure I would benefit with another Ultra.
You have 2,000 watts of RMS power.You are about to pick up 2 RF-7 II klipsch tower's that i myself own adn are just really fantastic tower's.Umm yeah i think adding a extra ultra is really not needed .That's just me i can be the judge of that one.It's your money and you home.But all i can say is wait till you hear the RF-7 II tower's.You will never think of adding a extra sub again.Because they already give off a good amount of bass.Like 30 herts worth of bass.is the lowest they will go.
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post #17108 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 08:04 PM
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Really? I thought the slab would eat up most if not all of the bass if I only had two (or 4) up front. Hmm if what you're saying is true then I would probably rather have all 4 up front or grab those two plusses. Guess I'll have to experiment but thanks for the info.

I picture bass waves in a very simple way.
I think of a pond and when I throw a stone in the ripples it causes. Think the same way with the bass waves. Anything in the way of that ripple gets excited and eats up some of the energy the ripple has formed, same with bass. If multiple stones are thrown into the pond, some ripples that are created will cancel each other out once they come into contact with each other. I don't know that much about all the technical stuff about the different orders in a frequency response, but being a visual type of person I can see how this simple wave or ripple effect can work on bass placement and tactile feeling.


I just thought I would throw this out there because I think so many of us have a habit of over thinking our bass management, when it really should be quite simple.

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post #17109 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 08:48 PM
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An interesting perspective. But youre forgetting about the waves that bounce off of the ceiling, walls, floor and objects in the room. And not all materials reflect sound energy to the same degree (drywall vs curtains for instance). That makes it much more complex.

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post #17110 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 09:03 PM
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I picture bass waves in a very simple way.
I think of a pond and when I throw a stone in the ripples it causes. Think the same way with the bass waves. Anything in the way of that ripple gets excited and eats up some of the energy the ripple has formed, same with bass. If multiple stones are thrown into the pond, some ripples that are created will cancel each other out once they come into contact with each other. I don't know that much about all the technical stuff about the different orders in a frequency response, but being a visual type of person I can see how this simple wave or ripple effect can work on bass placement and tactile feeling.


I just thought I would throw this out there because I think so many of us have a habit of over thinking our bass management, when it really should be quite simple.
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An interesting perspective. But youre forgetting about the waves that bounce off of the ceiling, walls, floor and objects in the room. And not all materials reflect sound energy to the same degree (drywall vs curtains for instance). That makes it much more complex.

Both seem to be about what I have thought of as well. The stone/ripple theory is exactly how I try to picture bass waves but as Bond says, it's not that simple though it's a great visual. I've decided to give up my 4 "lesser" subs and order the pair of PC12-Plus. I just feel that those subs offer such a tremendous value, especially for only $1049 in the outlet. I'm looking forward to putting this to bed since I have spent WAY more time on subs/bass than any other aspect of my theater build. I feel that without proper bass, you can't replicate that cinema level of sound we all desire
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post #17111 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 09:34 PM
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Hockeypucks you will get tactile sensation from your subs on the riser due to the acoustical energy transmitted from the driver/port, to the riser, not from direct contact between the cab and riser. The slab floor does not absorb the bass or anything....you don't get tactile feeling on concrete because it does not vibrate and shake from the sound waves. So put your subs wherever they work best in your room for frequency response.

As far as getting an experience equivalent to a theater, I am sure your setup far exceeds any movie theater experience. I just saw HTTYD 2 in imax, and my home theater is order of magnitudes more tactile with just two inexpensive ported subs.
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post #17112 of 19840 Old 06-21-2014, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post
Both seem to be about what I have thought of as well. The stone/ripple theory is exactly how I try to picture bass waves but as Bond says, it's not that simple though it's a great visual. I've decided to give up my 4 "lesser" subs and order the pair of PC12-Plus. I just feel that those subs offer such a tremendous value, especially for only $1049 in the outlet. I'm looking forward to putting this to bed since I have spent WAY more time on subs/bass than any other aspect of my theater build. I feel that without proper bass, you can't replicate that cinema level of sound we all desire
Great choice you will be more than happy with them!!!!

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post #17113 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 05:16 AM
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Hockeypucks you will get tactile sensation from your subs on the riser due to the acoustical energy transmitted from the driver/port, to the riser, not from direct contact between the cab and riser. The slab floor does not absorb the bass or anything....you don't get tactile feeling on concrete because it does not vibrate and shake from the sound waves. So put your subs wherever they work best in your room for frequency response.

As far as getting an experience equivalent to a theater, I am sure your setup far exceeds any movie theater experience. I just saw HTTYD 2 in imax, and my home theater is order of magnitudes more tactile with just two inexpensive ported subs.
Thank you bear for your valuable insight. I wrongly assumed that I should have put one or more on that riser but I'm glad it won't seem to matter. I've also ordered a umik to further assist in my flat line quest. Wow that's impressive to hear you get better sound and tactile feel in your place than an imax!
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post #17114 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 06:26 AM
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I just got my new PB12-Plus in, which is replacing a PB12-NSD. I hooked it up last night, but haven't had a chance to run Audyssey. One thing I'm not sure on, should I leave the High Pass Filter disabled? I'm not familiar with this feature on subs and want to make sure it doesn't have anything to do with the limiter.

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post #17115 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 07:15 AM
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Thank you bear for your valuable insight. I wrongly assumed that I should have put one or more on that riser but I'm glad it won't seem to matter. I've also ordered a umik to further assist in my flat line quest. Wow that's impressive to hear you get better sound and tactile feel in your place than an imax!
It was the first Imax I have ever been to.....the sound was A LOT better than my local cinema, which is pretty bad i.e. my bookshelf speakers with no subs is much more impressive than my local movie theater. I was expecting just a little more from the imax, although I know it is hard to fill a very large space with bass....still could not help thinking that something like two orbit shifters would have given much better bass.
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post #17116 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 07:42 AM
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I just got my new PB12-Plus in, which is replacing a PB12-NSD. I hooked it up last night, but haven't had a chance to run Audyssey. One thing I'm not sure on, should I leave the High Pass Filter disabled? I'm not familiar with this feature on subs and want to make sure it doesn't have anything to do with the limiter.
Really only need to make sure you have 20, 16, or sealed selected for your port tuning on the Plus.(1 plugged =16, all plugged = sealed, no plugs = 20) Run Audyssey and then set your crossover and in the AVR can set the HPF.
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post #17117 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 07:57 AM
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Really only need to make sure you have 20, 16, or sealed selected for your port tuning on the Plus.(1 plugged =16, all plugged = sealed, no plugs = 20) Run Audyssey and then set your crossover and in the AVR can set the HPF.
Agree I have 2 Pluses and talked to SVS about set up and it is all what I did 16hy set up = 1 port plugged and rerun Audyssey and subs sounds amazing.

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post #17118 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I just got my new PB12-Plus in, which is replacing a PB12-NSD. I hooked it up last night, but haven't had a chance to run Audyssey. One thing I'm not sure on, should I leave the High Pass Filter disabled? I'm not familiar with this feature on subs and want to make sure it doesn't have anything to do with the limiter.
Congrats to your new sub!!!!

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post #17119 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I just got my new PB12-Plus in, which is replacing a PB12-NSD. I hooked it up last night, but haven't had a chance to run Audyssey. One thing I'm not sure on, should I leave the High Pass Filter disabled? I'm not familiar with this feature on subs and want to make sure it doesn't have anything to do with the limiter.
Congrats on the new sub!

The HPF is for when you hook up other speakers to the sub. If not, then just leave it Disabled.

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post #17120 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 08:15 AM
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Congrats to your new sub!!!!
Thanks!

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post #17121 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 08:18 AM
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Thanks to all for the quick responses! I'm excited to put my new sub to the test. I loved my PB12-NSD, but the grill would always come off and rattle - couldn't fix it. SVS was kind enough to fully refund my 2 yr old sub and exchange for a PB12-Plus - I paid the difference of course. Getting this thing into place was no easy task.

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post #17122 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 08:46 AM
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Just have to love the way ppl react to the subs. Ex..
Last week I had my nephew and his family over. My nephew's son is running around with his iphone listening to his music with the beats headphones, comes running over and says Hey Uncle you have to listen to this tune it is awesome. I put his beats on and listened. I then said I have something for you to listen to, walked into my living room , turned into aka theater somewhat. and went to utube and played this mix at around -5 mv. He is sitting in my theater chair saying this is nothing great but sounds ok, then at around the 1minute 50sec mark the bass hits. Seats are vibrating and he jumps up and proclaims : "That is what I am talking about and starts to jam out. Louder Uncle Louder."



The subs just make me giggle when I see the reactions. Gotta love SVS.
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post #17123 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 10:32 AM
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It was the first Imax I have ever been to.....the sound was A LOT better than my local cinema, which is pretty bad i.e. my bookshelf speakers with no subs is much more impressive than my local movie theater. I was expecting just a little more from the imax, although I know it is hard to fill a very large space with bass....still could not help thinking that something like two orbit shifters would have given much better bass.
I've been to imax only a couple times but I feel that it's almost too loud, or just harsh with the treble on my ears. Perhaps I'm just too close to the screen who knows. But I like to hear your room is capable of surpassing that quality as far as tactile sensation. Anyone can have a loud system but being able to FEEL that bass brings a whole realm of believability to the movie which is what I'm after. From what I've read a pair of plusses will suit me nicely.

Thoughts on where the initial volume on the sub should be prior to running audyssey? Should I have them matched to 75db before running audyssey? I've never used anything other than mcaac so I'm fairly new to audyssey.
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post #17124 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 11:41 AM
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I've been to imax only a couple times but I feel that it's almost too loud, or just harsh with the treble on my ears. Perhaps I'm just too close to the screen who knows. But I like to hear your room is capable of surpassing that quality as far as tactile sensation. Anyone can have a loud system but being able to FEEL that bass brings a whole realm of believability to the movie which is what I'm after. From what I've read a pair of plusses will suit me nicely.

Thoughts on where the initial volume on the sub should be prior to running audyssey? Should I have them matched to 75db before running audyssey? I've never used anything other than mcaac so I'm fairly new to audyssey.
-15 is a good starting point

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post #17125 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 12:05 PM
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Thoughts on where the initial volume on the sub should be prior to running audyssey? Should I have them matched to 75db before running audyssey? I've never used anything other than mcaac so I'm fairly new to audyssey.
Not sure what you are using for your receiver but my denon when I run Audyssey first ask to set the subs volume first. It will run a test tone and display a meter in the gui on screen which you then can use to turn the volume up or down on the sub until you reach around 75 db's.
The other thing I had been told by SVS rep was to make sure both subs have the same polarity. So you may want to check that.


If I remember correctly I had to set 1 sub at -27 and the other at -25 so you have a lot of leeway to play with.

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post #17126 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 12:09 PM
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Not sure what you are using for your receiver but my denon when I run Audyssey first ask to set the subs volume first. It will run a test tone and display a meter in the gui on screen which you then can use to turn the volume up or down on the sub until you reach around 75 db's.
The other thing I had been told by SVS rep was to make sure both subs have the same polarity. So you may want to check that.
Ok good to know, I have an Onkyo 818. Still in the box but should be opening it within a week or so when I'm ready to hook up all the fun stuff. But I'll start the volume on the sub at -15. Should I do one at a time this way or both together?
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post #17127 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Not sure what you are using for your receiver but my denon when I run Audyssey first ask to set the subs volume first. It will run a test tone and display a meter in the gui on screen which you then can use to turn the volume up or down on the sub until you reach around 75 db's.
The other thing I had been told by SVS rep was to make sure both subs have the same polarity. So you may want to check that.


If I remember correctly I had to set 1 sub at -27 and the other at -25 so you have a lot of leeway to play with.
What do you mean same polarity on subs?
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post #17128 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post
Ok good to know, I have an Onkyo 818. Still in the box but should be opening it within a week or so when I'm ready to hook up all the fun stuff. But I'll start the volume on the sub at -15. Should I do one at a time this way or both together?
BCRSS is right. My Denon do same thing , before Audyssey start I have select 1 or 2 subs and calibrate subs 75db point so one was -17gb and second -19db on subs. You need to do it both in same time becouse you need to choice if you have 1 or 2 subs. Then I adjust both subs 2.5db hotter I read some about it and I chat with SVS and they told me many people including Jack from SVS like to run subs little more hot so we recomend to adjust 2.5db. You can probably adjust even more I just did not know how much is safe for sub to add, it is for sure more then that.
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post #17129 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 12:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
What do you mean same polarity on subs?

the subs need to be in the same phase.. if opposite the bass waves will cancel out..
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post #17130 of 19840 Old 06-22-2014, 12:54 PM
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The search function doesn't seem to be working, so apologies on not being able to find the answer to my question on my own. Realizing I'm posting to a biased audience in this thread, I'd welcome any input:

Set up: Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000s upfront, Def Tech ProSub 1000 (which I'm looking to replace). Center is a proCenter 1000, rears are proMonitor800s. Denon 1913 AVR.

Room: 14x22x9 with the room open to a stair well, a dining room and a hall way.

Use: Probably gets more use for TV than anything, time wise, but 2.1 stereo music listening is where I focus my attention. Obviously, digging deeper on the register when watching movies is something I'm hoping for.

Budget: was hoping for the $500 range, but as I indicate below, I could go up to $1000.

Smaller and higher quality fit and finish are important for WAF, but she is fine with the current DT sub, which isn't really a beauty, in my opinion.

I'm considering:
I've emailed with SVS and they recommended the PB1000. Merlin says the PB1000 or SB1000. Given my preference for musical performance over HT use, I thought about opting for the SB1000 over their advice, and since its smaller, I could maybe convince the wife to allow a second one in the room. 2x SB1000 is the priciest option I've considered, but sealed subs (tighter bass) and the small footprint appeal to me.

I've emailed Hsu and described my room, speakers and uses and the recommendation was the Hsu VTF-3 Mk4. My reservations are its size and the variable tuning will probably lead to me fiddling with it until my wife threatens my physical well being.

Lots of folks have recommended the Rythmik LV12R, and reviews seem to indicate that it is especially music friendly for a ported sub.

PSA recommended the xv15se, but I think that'll be just too massive; they said the PSA xs15 would also do well as long as I didn't want to play at extremely loud volumes.

Other options I should consider, or help picking among the choices presented is appreciated.

Last edited by DonnyKerabatsos; 06-22-2014 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Added PSA info
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