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post #17131 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
the subs need to be in the same phase.. if opposite the bass waves will cancel out..
Yes you are right needs to be set up to same mode 16,20 or sealed I justs did not know what he was saying.
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post #17132 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Yes you are right needs to be set up to same mode 16,20 or sealed I justs did not know what he was saying.
He meant positive to positive and negative to negative with the phase settings on the subs at the same setting.
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post #17133 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 01:00 PM
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What do you mean same polarity on subs?

Since I have 2 different 12+'s and each was bought at a different time, SVS suggested to test if both are the same polarity. How they said to do that was and since I had REW and a calibrated mic was to place each sub next to each other almost touching. Then place the mic 6 inches away from sub 1 and calibrate it to 75db. Then do the same for sub 2, Once both are at 75db use a Y rca splitter and connect both together and run the test tone once again with the mic in the middle of each sub. If both subs are on the same polarity the spl meter should now read any where from 80-83db. If the spl meter is lower that 75db with both subs running means one is opposite in polarity. If that is the case, they suggest to take off plate amp on one of them and switch the red and black wires on the amp. I have read that other ppl will change the phase setting on one amp to 180 instead of the 0 but SVS told me to do it this way. I am not sure if changing the 180 will have any negative impact over the long haul or not. My thought would be that it won't hurt but thought I would play it safe and do as SVS suggested. Both my subs are on the same polarity and my phase adjustment is at 0 on both.

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post #17134 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
He meant positive to positive and negative to negative with the phase settings on the subs at the same setting.
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Since I have 2 different 12+'s and each was bought at a different time, SVS suggested to test if both are the same polarity. How they said to do that was and since I had REW and a calibrated mic was to place each sub next to each other almost touching. Then place the mic 6 inches away from sub 1 and calibrate it to 75db. Then do the same for sub 2, Once both are at 75db use a Y rca splitter and connect both together and run the test tone once again with the mic in the middle of each sub. If both subs are on the same polarity the spl meter should now read any where from 80-83db. If the spl meter is lower that 75db with both subs running means one is opposite in polarity. If that is the case, they suggest to take off plate amp on one of them and switch the red and black wires on the amp. I have read that other ppl will change the phase setting on one amp to 180 instead of the 0 but SVS told me to do it this way. I am not sure if changing the 180 will have any negative impact over the long haul or not. My thought would be that it won't hurt but thought I would play it safe and do as SVS suggested. Both my subs are on the same polarity and my phase adjustment is at 0 on both.
Thank you both for explain it all to me, thanks again.

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post #17135 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
The search function doesn't seem to be working, so apologies on not being able to find the answer to my question on my own. Realizing I'm posting to a biased audience in this thread, I'd welcome any input:

Set up: Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000s upfront, Def Tech ProSub 1000 (which I'm looking to replace). Center is a proCenter 1000, rears are proMonitor800s. Denon 1913 AVR.

Room: 14x22x9 with the room open to a stair well, a dining room and a hall way.

Use: Probably gets more use for TV than anything, time wise, but 2.1 stereo music listening is where I focus my attention. Obviously, digging deeper on the register when watching movies is something I'm hoping for.

Budget: was hoping for the $500 range, but as I indicate below, I could go up to $1000.

Smaller and higher quality fit and finish are important for WAF, but she is fine with the current DT sub, which isn't really a beauty, in my opinion.

I'm considering:
I've emailed with SVS and they recommended the PB1000. Merlin says the PB1000 or SB1000. Given my preference for musical performance over HT use, I thought about opting for the SB1000 over their advice, and since its smaller, I could maybe convince the wife to allow a second one in the room. 2x SB1000 is the priciest option I've considered, but sealed subs (tighter bass) and the small footprint appeal to me.

I've emailed Hsu and described my room, speakers and uses and the recommendation was the Hsu VTF-3 Mk4. My reservations are its size and the variable tuning will probably lead to me fiddling with it until my wife threatens my physical well being.

Lots of folks have recommended the Rythmik LV12R, and reviews seem to indicate that it is especially music friendly for a ported sub.

PSA recommended the xv15se, but I think that'll be just too massive; they said the PSA xs15 would also do well as long as I didn't want to play at extremely loud volumes.

Other options I should consider, or help picking among the choices presented is appreciated.
If you could manage the thousand dollar range:

the SVS outlet has a PC12plus for $1,049 ... I couldn't be happier with mine ... my living room is about 2,400 cf, while yours is 2,772 cf and I have a 1,400 cf dining room with our computer desk where I listen to iTunes tracks (melodic bass music) and the PC12+ fills up both rooms quite easily - I can even hear the bass in the kitchen as well ... the PC12+ sounds great for music and Home Theater.

As I sit at the desk typing this, I can "feel the bass" here in the next room :-)

IMG_0577.jpg
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post #17136 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 02:41 PM
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new PB-1000 owner here... this was the sub I was looking for. I auditioned a PS12 NSD and a PC12 NSD, both of which didn't have the sound I was looking for... the small 10 front firing and front ported is perfect... blends seamlessly with my mains and even sounds great at low volumes... it goes as low as my old PSW505 and punches just as hard, but more tight and faster, more articulation.. for a 10" I can't believe how low it goes. wow!

I guess the only thing left is deciding when to get my second one to go on the right side.

PS: SVS was so cool about returning the other subs.. no hassle no problem.

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post #17137 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by r3v3nant View Post
new PB-1000 owner here... this was the sub I was looking for. I auditioned a PS12 NSD and a PC12 NSD, both of which didn't have the sound I was looking for... the small 10 front firing and front ported is perfect... blends seamlessly with my mains and even sounds great at low volumes... it goes as low as my old PSW505 and punches just as hard, but more tight and faster, more articulation.. for a 10" I can't believe how low it goes. wow!

I guess the only thing left is deciding when to get my second one to go on the right side.

PS: SVS was so cool about returning the other subs.. no hassle no problem.
I too tried the nsd line but found my SB-1000 to sound far better in my two channel environment. I was amazed at how much better the smaller sub sounded. Congrats, the 1000 and 2000 line of subs are fantastic boxes
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post #17138 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 03:12 PM
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Strange SB1000 superior to SB-12 NSD? Or is that PB or PC NSD?

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post #17139 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 04:31 PM
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Strange SB1000 superior to SB-12 NSD? Or is that PB or PC NSD?
I compared SB-1000 to SB12-NSD and I feel the 1000 sounded smoother and tighter if that makes sense. I was highly impressed with the SB-1000 right out of the box but couldn't get the same results with multiple placements/tweaks of the SB12-NSD. I like the gloss black finish on the nsd a lot but looks don't mean much when it comes to superior sound But the 1000 doesn't look bad in the corner, small but deadly. At least in my room anyway.
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post #17140 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 04:43 PM
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I compared SB-1000 to SB12-NSD and I feel the 1000 sounded smoother and tighter if that makes sense. I was highly impressed with the SB-1000 right out of the box but couldn't get the same results with multiple placements/tweaks of the SB12-NSD. I like the gloss black finish on the nsd a lot but looks don't mean much when it comes to superior sound But the 1000 doesn't look bad in the corner, small but deadly. At least in my room anyway.
My experience with the sb12 nsd was that the bass just had no authority.. I could hear it but not feel it really until I got it up to clipping levels... maybe just my room harmonics... but these little 10s hit so hard and fast with lots of deep low capability as well... I'll never look at a 10 the same way.

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post #17141 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by r3v3nant View Post
My experience with the sb12 nsd was that the bass just had no authority.. I could hear it but not feel it really until I got it up to clipping levels... maybe just my room harmonics... but these little 10s hit so hard and fast with lots of deep low capability as well... I'll never look at a 10 the same way.
My SB-1000 has a 12" driver but I've also had the PB-1000 in house and it gets way lower than any ten inch woofer should haha. I found I had to go bigger for my theater but the pb is a very solid performer indeed.
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post #17142 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 05:57 PM
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HELP guys!

I've noticed the bass in my dual PB12-Plus setup isn't as well as it used to. So today, I decided to do a little investigation and found out one of the sub isn't powering up! The sub is connected to a power surge, and all other equipment that are connected to the same outlet is fine. I've also tried to unplug & plug it back, still no go. Is it dead??

I've just sent an email to SVS, but it's Sunday evening, I'm not expecting hear from them tonight. Therefore, I'm hoping some of you wise guys here could help me out.

Thanks in advance.
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post #17143 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 06:07 PM
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HELP guys!

I've noticed the bass in my dual PB12-Plus setup isn't as well as it used to. So today, I decided to do a little investigation and found out one of the sub isn't powering up! The sub is connected to a power surge, and all other equipment that are connected to the same outlet is fine. I've also tried to unplug & plug it back, still no go. Is it dead??

I've just sent an email to SVS, but it's Sunday evening, I'm not expecting hear from them tonight. Therefore, I'm hoping some of you wise guys here could help me out.

Thanks in advance.
Blown fuse? I think SVS supplies a spare fuse in the amp somewhere...
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post #17144 of 17681 Old 06-22-2014, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
The search function doesn't seem to be working, so apologies on not being able to find the answer to my question on my own. Realizing I'm posting to a biased audience in this thread, I'd welcome any input:

Set up: Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000s upfront, Def Tech ProSub 1000 (which I'm looking to replace). Center is a proCenter 1000, rears are proMonitor800s. Denon 1913 AVR.

Room: 14x22x9 with the room open to a stair well, a dining room and a hall way.

Use: Probably gets more use for TV than anything, time wise, but 2.1 stereo music listening is where I focus my attention. Obviously, digging deeper on the register when watching movies is something I'm hoping for.

Budget: was hoping for the $500 range, but as I indicate below, I could go up to $1000.

Smaller and higher quality fit and finish are important for WAF, but she is fine with the current DT sub, which isn't really a beauty, in my opinion.

I'm considering:
I've emailed with SVS and they recommended the PB1000. Merlin says the PB1000 or SB1000. Given my preference for musical performance over HT use, I thought about opting for the SB1000 over their advice, and since its smaller, I could maybe convince the wife to allow a second one in the room. 2x SB1000 is the priciest option I've considered, but sealed subs (tighter bass) and the small footprint appeal to me.

I've emailed Hsu and described my room, speakers and uses and the recommendation was the Hsu VTF-3 Mk4. My reservations are its size and the variable tuning will probably lead to me fiddling with it until my wife threatens my physical well being.

Lots of folks have recommended the Rythmik LV12R, and reviews seem to indicate that it is especially music friendly for a ported sub.

PSA recommended the xv15se, but I think that'll be just too massive; they said the PSA xs15 would also do well as long as I didn't want to play at extremely loud volumes.

Other options I should consider, or help picking among the choices presented is appreciated.
If the size isn't an issue, dual PB-1000's would mate well with those DT's, and duals could potentially help smooth out both room response across multiple seats and limit localization issues. Localization could be a problem considering you will most likely need to crossover those ProMonitors at ~100-120hz (or higher) for best performance.

Considering your midsized room (~2700 ft^3), they should provide a good amount of output. As to the whole ported vs. sealed debate, not everyone is convinced about sealed being a better option, or even a noticeable difference, versus ported. Many (including myself) feel that unless you are chasing the very lowest frequencies (sub 15hz), or are especially susceptible to port chuffing (rare at most normal listening volumes), you probably wouldn't be able to identify a ported vs sealed sub in a blind test. Therefore, go with the more efficient ported design and enjoy the extra output.

If size is a deal breaker, then, well that kind of makes up your mind for you. I'd still vote for duals.

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post #17145 of 17681 Old 06-23-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post
HELP guys!

I've noticed the bass in my dual PB12-Plus setup isn't as well as it used to. So today, I decided to do a little investigation and found out one of the sub isn't powering up! The sub is connected to a power surge, and all other equipment that are connected to the same outlet is fine. I've also tried to unplug & plug it back, still no go. Is it dead??

I've just sent an email to SVS, but it's Sunday evening, I'm not expecting hear from them tonight. Therefore, I'm hoping some of you wise guys here could help me out.

Thanks in advance.
Check the Auto power switch, and put it in the always on position. Check your receiver to make sure you are sending bass + LFE. At least that what I've done to check a similar scare with my PB12-NSD.

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post #17146 of 17681 Old 06-23-2014, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rgdeuce View Post
Will be a member of the second sub club (PB12-NSD's) when it arrives early next week. Just needed someone to tell, since my wife is past tired of me talking about home theater. Somehow I was able to stretch a $300 subwoofer budget (until I got sound advice here indicating I needed to do better) into nearly $1,200. She literally made me sign a promise agreement that this is the last piece of home theater equipment I buy for the next 5 years.
Where did you find your new PB12-NSD?

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post #17147 of 17681 Old 06-23-2014, 05:51 PM
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HELP guys!

I've noticed the bass in my dual PB12-Plus setup isn't as well as it used to. So today, I decided to do a little investigation and found out one of the sub isn't powering up! The sub is connected to a power surge, and all other equipment that are connected to the same outlet is fine. I've also tried to unplug & plug it back, still no go. Is it dead??

I've just sent an email to SVS, but it's Sunday evening, I'm not expecting hear from them tonight. Therefore, I'm hoping some of you wise guys here could help me out.

Thanks in advance.
Jack @ SVS promptly replied to me, and it turns out to be a blown fuse. Swapped with the spare one that came with the sub, and it's back online. Double checked the performance with WorldWarZ grenade & WHD Washington Monument scenes, everything work as good as it used to. I love SVS!

Thanks to the suggestions and advices guys.
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post #17148 of 17681 Old 06-23-2014, 07:01 PM
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Where did you find your new PB12-NSD?
Got both in the outlet for $550 each. They go fast (i missed out on one that was only up for 20 minutes or so), so you gotta check the outlet several times a day
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post #17149 of 17681 Old 06-23-2014, 08:06 PM
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Man there are a ton of bluray film's that i own and have not watched in a few year's .Some a few month's.And most if not all i am wait to listen to again till i get my SVS PB13-ULTRA.I cant wait till this day come's.There are film's that i got and did not open yet film's like pacifc rim in 3D. i have james camrons titanic i opened that one for sure.But not going to lie i did not watch it yet on my klipsch RF-7 II speaker yet.I just been busy with life.I ccant wait to listen to films like toms cruise war of the worlds.MAN THE FEELINS I AM GOING TO GET WITH THE PB-13 ULTRA BOOOOOM LMAO.Just talking about this sub is makeing me flip out with happyness.I get so hapy when talking about home theater and tec stuff.So blessed to have these cool thing's in my life.
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post #17150 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 03:41 AM
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I made a disc of each ultimate bass demo volumes one and two (put together from another member on here) and tested them on my little SB-1000 in the living room. It's pretty incredible what that little sub is capable of but I can't wait for my dual PC12-Plus to get here. I've never seen the movie Pulse nor have I seen the fabled server scene so it was nice to finally be able to see what all the fuss is about. Definitely an intense scene but I could tell the little sub wasn't too happy with me ha. Discs like this should come standard with all SVS subs
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post #17151 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 12:30 PM
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So i have to tell someone since my wife doesn't give a sh*t. Just bought a second PB 12 plus. Scheduled to deliver next Monday.
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post #17152 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 01:55 PM
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So i have to tell someone since my wife doesn't give a sh*t. Just bought a second PB 12 plus. Scheduled to deliver next Monday.


well if she don't care upgrade to the big dog subs he he he
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post #17153 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 02:00 PM
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So i have to tell someone since my wife doesn't give a sh*t. Just bought a second PB 12 plus. Scheduled to deliver next Monday.
We do ! We're all ears !

Congrats on the new PB 12 plus :-)

SVS-PB12-Plus-Black-Oak.jpg
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post #17154 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 03:00 PM
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So i have to tell someone since my wife doesn't give a sh*t. Just bought a second PB 12 plus. Scheduled to deliver next Monday.
Congrat's to your second sub, it is amazing to have dual subs, enjoy them.
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post #17155 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 04:14 PM
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So i have to tell someone since my wife doesn't give a sh*t. Just bought a second PB 12 plus. Scheduled to deliver next Monday.
LMAO. Welcome to the my wife doesn't give a sh*t club, and the two sub club
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post #17156 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 07:20 PM
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Hey guys, so I got my PB-2000 setup the other day. I have a couple other questions, hopefully someone can help.

So this is replacing my bic F-12.
The bic, while it doesn't do below 25-30hz too well, it does 30 to 35 and up really really well. It fills the room completely and hits very hard. Now the bic, has never been turned past 12 o clock (50%)...that's almost too loud.

My new pb-2000 is almost inaudible at 50%... it's on and plays, but the woofer just sort of vibrates. It doesn't move. I went to watch a movie and had to turn it up all the way to about 3:30 75-80% to get it moving and putting out good rumble when the scenes called for it.

The only way to get that chest pounding great bass was to play a bass mekanic video off of YouTube, again at about 75% volume.

What am i doing wrong? I've gotta be missing something here. Do you guys all keep your sub gain at 80%?

I also split the signal and ran both and at 50% volume, the bic is killing the svs.

I'm not posting this to sh$$ on the sub btw, but with the $600 difference here, i could use some pointers on tuning this thing.

Svs pb-2000 set to lfe

Pioneer vsx-1021k receiver sub x-over at 80hz

Receiver sub level at 0db

Thanks in advance guys. Let me know what i can do and what volumes you run.

Last edited by accordex; 06-24-2014 at 07:30 PM.
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post #17157 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by accordex View Post
Hey guys, so I got my PB-2000 setup the other day. I have a couple other questions, hopefully someone can help.

So this is replacing my bic F-12.
The bic, while it doesn't do below 25-30hz too well, it does 30 to 35 and up really really well. It fills the room completely and hits very hard. Now the bic, has never been turned past 12 o clock (50%)...that's almost too loud.

My new pb-2000 is almost inaudible at 50%... it's on and plays, but the woofer just sort of vibrates. It doesn't move. I went to watch a movie and had to turn it up all the way to about 3:30 75-80% to get it moving and putting out good rumble when the scenes called for it.

The only way to get that chest pounding great bass was to play a bass mekanic video off of YouTube, again at about 75% volume.

What am i doing wrong? I've gotta be missing something here. Do you guys all keep your sub gain at 80%?

I also split the signal and ran both and at 50% volume, the bic is killing the svs.

I'm not posting this to sh$$ on the sub btw, but with the $600 difference here, i could use some pointers on tuning this thing.

Svs pb-2000 set to lfe

Pioneer vsx-1021k receiver sub x-over at 80hz

Receiver sub level at 0db

Thanks in advance guys. Let me know what i can do and what volumes you run.
Well, I noticed the input on my PB-1000 was less sensitive than that of my PSW505 so I had to turn the sub level up a couple DB and I have the gain on the sub set around 2:30 or 3 o'clock. At that setting it comes alive. I played it hard for hours and felt the back and it was barely and I mean BARELY warm.. so I feel comfortable leaving the gain there. Try turning the sub channel trim up to like +3 or something if you want to ease back on the actual gain knob.

EDIT: Also - have you run MCACC since installing the new sub? It would be interesting to see what the room calibration thinks the sub gain should be at... I would put the gain knob at like 1 or 2 o'clock and run MCACC and see what happens.
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Listening: Outlaw Audio 950 | Sony CDPCX355 | 2x Marantz MA-700 + 2x MA-6100 | Energy RC-70 bi-amped + SVS PB-1000
HT: Pioneer Elite SC-71 AVR | LG 60PV450 plasma | all BIC 7 speaker surround + Klipsch sub-12hg | Sony BDP-S350 | WD TV

Last edited by r3v3nant; 06-24-2014 at 07:58 PM.
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post #17158 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 08:15 PM
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Ok, so it's not just mine.
I did run it, but i can't remember what it set to. I keep it at zero. It always sets my towers to like -3 , but that's too low. I have the infinity p363 towers x4 and i guess they're 4ohms, so to watch a movie i'd have to turn the receiver to like -15. So i bump them to +3 and watch movies at -25 or so. Probably killing my receiver with those speakers.

Anyways, i guess ill keep the gain up on the sub ..it just doesn't seem right. I've never turned any sub I've owned past 50%.
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post #17159 of 17681 Old 06-24-2014, 08:39 PM
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it's not you for sure.. I tried a couple svs subs before I stuck with the pb-1000 and they all needed more gain than my psw505... their input sensitivity on the amp must be on the lighter side..

Listening: Outlaw Audio 950 | Sony CDPCX355 | 2x Marantz MA-700 + 2x MA-6100 | Energy RC-70 bi-amped + SVS PB-1000
HT: Pioneer Elite SC-71 AVR | LG 60PV450 plasma | all BIC 7 speaker surround + Klipsch sub-12hg | Sony BDP-S350 | WD TV
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post #17160 of 17681 Old 06-25-2014, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accordex View Post
Ok, so it's not just mine.
I did run it, but i can't remember what it set to. I keep it at zero. It always sets my towers to like -3 , but that's too low. I have the infinity p363 towers x4 and i guess they're 4ohms, so to watch a movie i'd have to turn the receiver to like -15. So i bump them to +3 and watch movies at -25 or so. Probably killing my receiver with those speakers.

Anyways, i guess ill keep the gain up on the sub ..it just doesn't seem right. I've never turned any sub I've owned past 50%.
I'm not familiar with your AVR or sub. I have a PC13-Ultra. Everyone's room is different and have different styles of bass they like. The only measurement I have taken is with a sound meter. I don't have REW ready to go yet. I have my sub at 0db Gain and my "AVR" at +5.0db. I'm sure I'm in a null, but I get 75db at my listening position with the rest of my speakers and I can crank it higher with the volume.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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