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post #17581 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jwtallguy View Post
Did you by chance have dynamic EQ in use at the time of chuffing? Because if so its because your asking more of the sub then you can at those frequencies

Turning off the dynamic EQ helps but I much prefer it on, it adds a lot more dynamics to the sound with better imaging. Most of the time the bass is fine though with no chuffing, it's only been with that one scene so far. I've watched other bass heavy movies like Gravity and War of the Worlds and didn't notice any chuffing but I guess if I want to keep the bass at my current level and not have any I will need to look at something more powerful or add more subwoofers.

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post #17582 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 09:13 AM
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From what I read about it infamous grenade scene in World War Z ( is very hard scene for sub), is the one scene with port chuffing trouble, few people before said that here also, I need to watch it to find out if I will have this also.

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post #17583 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Either the sub volume is to high or you like to listen to movies at very high levels in that case when you run into some sub level bass your pushing your sub to much. My suggestion go with a bigger sub like the PB12 Plus or Ultra or switched to a big sealed sub. I use to own ported subs and hated the chuffing so went with sealed.
What is the size of your room with sb13ultra in it? I have 2xsb12 and i am playing with thought of selling one and getting sb13ultra and keep one sb12 to smooth the response...i just need a little more impact down low...my room is around 1600cubic feet
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post #17584 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 10:09 AM
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Just curious if anyone has found that calibrating with the sub PEQ before running Audyssey netted much better results than just Audyssey.
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post #17585 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post
Turning off the dynamic EQ helps but I much prefer it on, it adds a lot more dynamics to the sound with better imaging. Most of the time the bass is fine though with no chuffing, it's only been with that one scene so far. I've watched other bass heavy movies like Gravity and War of the Worlds and didn't notice any chuffing but I guess if I want to keep the bass at my current level and not have any I will need to look at something more powerful or add more subwoofers.
Thats because deq is boosting the bass at 15-20 hertz as much as 15 db and if your already running it hot on top of that amount that sub just doesnt have the output. I have 2 12+s and I still get chuffing when at reference level in the 15 to 20 hertz range but only with my subs 5 db hot and tuned to 16 hz .
I just this weekend switched to 20 hertz to free up some headroom because I was pushing to much air through the 2 ports( more air then a fan puts out lol) I could feel the air from about 7 feet away. Now theres more air but more port room to help
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post #17586 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post
Just curious if anyone has found that calibrating with the sub PEQ before running Audyssey netted much better results than just Audyssey.
If you have some response peaks, due to room position/modes, then using the PEQ to reduce them could help Audyssey to provide a better overall correction.
I base this on my own experience, not with in-built SVS PEQ - but using a MiniDSP with my SB2000. Let me try to explain:-

I found a position within my room that gives a generally flat, extended response from the SB2000, apart from two peaks at approx 45Hz and 55Hz (they actually merge and raise the level between the peaks).
All the other possible positions give large dips and peaks.
I initially ran Audyssey (XT32) on its own. When I measured the corrected response using my calibrated mic and REW it clearly showed that Audyssey only corrected the response ABOVE 45Hz, it totally ignored the frequencies below 45Hz. I believe the two peaks caused Audyssey to calculate the low frequency roll-off as being at 45Hz. It boosted the output above 55Hz in an attempt to produce a smooth response.
Needless to say the results were awful. No bottom end.
I then connected up the MiniDSP and used some PEQ to reduce the two troublesome peaks.
Audyssey was run from scratch again. What a difference. The sub now plays almost flat from 15Hz to 100Hz. Audyssey is now able to interpret the frequency response and apply some useful correction.

So if you've got some nasty peaks, then I would use the PEQ - but don't try to fill in severe dips, as that will just soak up amplifier power.
Independent measurements are required to determine if PEQ is appropriate, but I think it can help.

Regards, Mike.
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post #17587 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
If you have some response peaks, due to room position/modes, then using the PEQ to reduce them could help Audyssey to provide a better overall correction.
I base this on my own experience, not with in-built SVS PEQ - but using a MiniDSP with my SB2000. Let me try to explain:-

I found a position within my room that gives a generally flat, extended response from the SB2000, apart from two peaks at approx 45Hz and 55Hz (they actually merge and raise the level between the peaks).
All the other possible positions give large dips and peaks.
I initially ran Audyssey (XT32) on its own. When I measured the corrected response using my calibrated mic and REW it clearly showed that Audyssey only corrected the response ABOVE 45Hz, it totally ignored the frequencies below 45Hz. I believe the two peaks caused Audyssey to calculate the low frequency roll-off as being at 45Hz. It boosted the output above 55Hz in an attempt to produce a smooth response.
Needless to say the results were awful. No bottom end.
I then connected up the MiniDSP and used some PEQ to reduce the two troublesome peaks.
Audyssey was run from scratch again. What a difference. The sub now plays almost flat from 15Hz to 100Hz. Audyssey is now able to interpret the frequency response and apply some useful correction.

So if you've got some nasty peaks, then I would use the PEQ - but don't try to fill in severe dips, as that will just soak up amplifier power.
Independent measurements are required to determine if PEQ is appropriate, but I think it can help.

Regards, Mike.
I had a really wide resonance from 40Hz to 70Hz that was above the overall sub level when measured. I placed two PEQs spaced apart to tackle this resonance down and then ran XT32 and it was a huge difference. Before that, like you, I had no/little low end.

I am tempted to try a minidsp to see if I can do even better with it stacked on top of XT32 but that's probably overkill.
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post #17588 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
If you have some response peaks, due to room position/modes, then using the PEQ to reduce them could help Audyssey to provide a better overall correction.
I base this on my own experience, not with in-built SVS PEQ - but using a MiniDSP with my SB2000. Let me try to explain:-

I found a position within my room that gives a generally flat, extended response from the SB2000, apart from two peaks at approx 45Hz and 55Hz (they actually merge and raise the level between the peaks).
All the other possible positions give large dips and peaks.
I initially ran Audyssey (XT32) on its own. When I measured the corrected response using my calibrated mic and REW it clearly showed that Audyssey only corrected the response ABOVE 45Hz, it totally ignored the frequencies below 45Hz. I believe the two peaks caused Audyssey to calculate the low frequency roll-off as being at 45Hz. It boosted the output above 55Hz in an attempt to produce a smooth response.
Needless to say the results were awful. No bottom end.
I then connected up the MiniDSP and used some PEQ to reduce the two troublesome peaks.
Audyssey was run from scratch again. What a difference. The sub now plays almost flat from 15Hz to 100Hz. Audyssey is now able to interpret the frequency response and apply some useful correction.

So if you've got some nasty peaks, then I would use the PEQ - but don't try to fill in severe dips, as that will just soak up amplifier power.
Independent measurements are required to determine if PEQ is appropriate, but I think it can help.

Regards, Mike.
What a great, informative post! Thank you!

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post #17589 of 17948 Old 08-11-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
What is the size of your room with sb13ultra in it? I have 2xsb12 and i am playing with thought of selling one and getting sb13ultra and keep one sb12 to smooth the response...i just need a little more impact down low...my room is around 1600cubic feet
Just a tad under 2000 cub ft.

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post #17590 of 17948 Old 08-12-2014, 09:36 PM
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How does the SB-2000 perform compared to the PC12-NSD? I looked at the "curve" graph. I don't understand it totally but it measures in db and frequency. It looks like the SB2000 rates just a couple or a few db above the NSD all the way. At one point I remember someone saying at a certain db you can hear it but I don't remember that number. Like I said I don't know exactly how to read it.

It is a pretty small room. Anyway the reason I might upgrade is that I fear there won't be a PC-2000 until after my one year. I would eventually be happy with a PC-2000 and SB-2000 combo. Having the SB-2000 essentially replace the Klipsch RW12d. But is the SB-2000 enough of an upgrade over the PC12? I know it is over the Klipsch.

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post #17591 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:38 AM
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Wanted to see what all your thoughts were about laying a PC12+ on it's side. Not sure I'm in love with the idea, but I'm working on moving into a dedicated theater room and doing this would save a lot of issues, because then the sub would fit under the screen.

I seem to recall a handful of people did this and ran the sub behind their couch.

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post #17592 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
Wanted to see what all your thoughts were about laying a PC12+ on it's side. Not sure I'm in love with the idea, but I'm working on moving into a dedicated theater room and doing this would save a lot of issues, because then the sub would fit under the screen.

I seem to recall a handful of people did this and ran the sub behind their couch.
Try it and see if you like it.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #17593 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
Wanted to see what all your thoughts were about laying a PC12+ on it's side. Not sure I'm in love with the idea, but I'm working on moving into a dedicated theater room and doing this would save a lot of issues, because then the sub would fit under the screen.

I seem to recall a handful of people did this and ran the sub behind their couch.
Ask SVS.

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post #17594 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 04:41 PM
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From what I read about it infamous grenade scene in World War Z ( is very hard scene for sub), is the one scene with port chuffing trouble, few people before said that here also, I need to watch it to find out if I will have this also.
Only scene I have discovered that Chuffs with my pb 2000, running 3 db hot with dynamic eq on. Must be right on the threshold though becasue if I turn the subs gain down just one notch it doesn't do it at all.

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post #17595 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 05:40 PM
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Only scene I have discovered that Chuffs with my pb 2000, running 3 db hot with dynamic eq on. Must be right on the threshold though becasue if I turn the subs gain down just one notch it doesn't do it at all.
You should try "Oz the Great and Powerful" final witch fight scene. It turns my PC12+ into wheezing asthmatic. Which is disappointing.

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post #17596 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 05:55 PM
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You should try "Oz the Great and Powerful" final witch fight scene. It turns my PC12+ into wheezing asthmatic. Which is disappointing.
Do you have any in room response graphs of your sub ?
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post #17597 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
You should try "Oz the Great and Powerful" final witch fight scene. It turns my PC12+ into wheezing asthmatic. Which is disappointing.
Are you running your sub extra hot? What is set up on AVR and on sub?

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post #17598 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Niroe64 View Post
Only scene I have discovered that Chuffs with my pb 2000, running 3 db hot with dynamic eq on. Must be right on the threshold though becasue if I turn the subs gain down just one notch it doesn't do it at all.
Will try it over weekend to find pit if I will have it also.

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post #17599 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jwtallguy View Post
Do you have any in room response graphs of your sub ?
No graphs, no measuring devices, just set up be ear and feel.

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post #17600 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:38 PM
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You should try "Oz the Great and Powerful" final witch fight scene. It turns my PC12+ into wheezing asthmatic. Which is disappointing.
I'm gonna give that a try. I don't remember chuffing. Then again I do run a Klipsch RW12 paired with my PC12. If any sub is going to chuff, it's gonna be that one. I'm curious now. I mean I have multi XT32 with dual sub EQ on the denon so maybe that helps. I'm gonna watch that scene again.

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post #17601 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:39 PM
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Are you running your sub extra hot? What is set up on AVR and on sub?
Don't know if it's hot or not. Used to have the sub gain at -5db and the AVR sub level at -4db. Ran it that way for quite a while in 16hz tune, then after getting used to the increased output I started to notice the chuffing which at first I probably thought was bass or sound affects. I never had a big ported sub before.

I've since turned the sub gain down to -10db and added the Def Tech Super cube in the opposite corner to help make up for the reduced output. It's pretty good now but bass heavy movies with content below 20hz will still set it to chuffing at the levels I like to listen to.

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post #17602 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:48 PM
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Don't know if it's hot or not. Used to have the sub gain at -5db and the AVR sub level at -4db. Ran it that way for quite a while in 16hz tune, then after getting used to the increased output I started to notice the chuffing which at first I probably thought was bass or sound affects. I never had a big ported sub before.

I've since turned the sub gain down to -10db and added the Def Tech Super cube in the opposite corner to help make up for the reduced output. It's pretty good now but bass heavy movies with content below 20hz will still set it to chuffing at the levels I like to listen to.
The PC12-Plus is an extremely good sub. If you are getting port chuffing at less than reference volume. I feel something might be wrong with it. A quick call to SVS might be a good thing to do.

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post #17603 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:52 PM
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The PC12-Plus is an extremely good sub. If you are getting port chuffing at less than reference volume. I feel something might be wrong with it. A quick call to SVS might be a good thing to do.
They would just tell me to turn the gain down so it doesn't chuff.

Sure I can set it that way but then I would have no bass at lower listening levels.

If I had the funds I would replace it and the def tech with a pair of sealed subs. As it stands my only feasible option is to add another plus or maybe and ultra down the road.

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post #17604 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 06:54 PM
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No graphs, no measuring devices, just set up be ear and feel.
Theres a real good chance your in a spot that you get very little effect from 20 hertz and down as I do currently at my mlp. Now I still can hit 115 db at 20 hz and 108 @15 hz in my spot but if I move my mic forward 3 feet I get a boost that pulls 15 hz up to 113 with no port noise and down to 10 hz @ 107
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post #17605 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 07:00 PM
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Theres a real good chance your in a spot that you get very little effect from 20 hertz and down as I do currently at my mlp. Now I still can hit 115 db at 20 hz and 108 @15 hz in my spot but if I move my mic forward 3 feet I get a boost that pulls 15 hz up to 113 with no port noise and down to 10 hz @ 107
Could be. The only thing I have done is move around the room or across the 4 seats (sofa) while playing some low bass tracks off youtube. I can't hear or feel much difference within the main listening positions or in front or in back of them. There is some build up in the two rear corners.

I'm sure if I were to graph it I would be surprised at what the response actually is. But that is not something I want to mess with. The rabbit hole is much too deep.

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post #17606 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Don't know if it's hot or not. Used to have the sub gain at -5db and the AVR sub level at -4db. Ran it that way for quite a while in 16hz tune, then after getting used to the increased output I started to notice the chuffing which at first I probably thought was bass or sound affects. I never had a big ported sub before.

I've since turned the sub gain down to -10db and added the Def Tech Super cube in the opposite corner to help make up for the reduced output. It's pretty good now but bass heavy movies with content below 20hz will still set it to chuffing at the levels I like to listen to.
Well yes it is hot. When I run Audyssey both Pluses are set -17db and AVR was set up -5.5db so I add 3db so now is -2.5db and I never had chuffing problem, not sure if running dual subs will help that probably little because subs don't need to work that hard. Need to watch World War Z to find out but many movies what I watched no problem at all. Both subs are set to 16hz mode.

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post #17607 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Well yes it is hot. When I run Audyssey both Pluses are set -17db and AVR was set up -5.5db so I add 3db so now is -2.5db and I never had chuffing problem, not sure if running dual subs will help that probably little because subs don't need to work that hard. Need to watch World War Z to find out but many movies what I watched no problem at all. Both subs are set to 16hz mode.
I'm sure dual subs would help since just adding my def tech helped.

I did not have any chuffing in the WWZ grenade scene and that was when running only the PC at -5db gain on the sub.

It's only certain scenes in certain movies. I can run many of the youtube bass test tracks and not get chuffing. There are a few that give the sub fits though.

Time for a pair of reaction audio BP215s. (Nah, too big). Down the road another cylinder and maybe run them in sealed mode.

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post #17608 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
I'm sure dual subs would help since just adding my def tech helped.

I did not have any chuffing in the WWZ grenade scene and that was when running only the PC at -5db gain on the sub.

It's only certain scenes in certain movies. I can run many of the youtube bass test tracks and not get chuffing. There are a few that give the sub fits though.

Time for a pair of reaction audio BP215s. (Nah, too big). Down the road another cylinder and maybe run them in sealed mode.
I will see and let you know, also sealed mode Is mode what I need to try. I had factory 20hz then when I decide to kept both subs I talked to Ed from SVS and he said set them to 16Hz and I love it, maybe sealed mode will be even better need to check it. i'm very busy ar work those days so no time to play that much, hopefully next week will be slow.

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post #17609 of 17948 Old 08-13-2014, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
Wanted to see what all your thoughts were about laying a PC12+ on it's side. Not sure I'm in love with the idea, but I'm working on moving into a dedicated theater room and doing this would save a lot of issues, because then the sub would fit under the screen.

I seem to recall a handful of people did this and ran the sub behind their couch.
I have a pc13u on its side behind our seating position, works well.
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post #17610 of 17948 Old 08-14-2014, 05:04 AM
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Are there any disadvantages to purchasing one of the subs in their outlet? I'm interested in the PB-2000, and they have one listed now that states there is no damage (which would be the one disadvantage I could think of). From what I can tell, you still get the same warranty and guarantees as you would if you purchased a new one.

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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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