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post #17761 of 17777 Old 08-26-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post
Yesterday i gave svs a call.They told me that both driver's are different for the sb13 ultra and the pb13 ultra.Main reason this being is one is seled and the other one is ported.Now the question i asked svs is what driver is the most powerful one out of all your driver's your make.SVS told me that there PB13-ULTRA is the best driver they make in term's of LOUD and BIG and beast size.But also the best for movie's and music.That also being said they did tell me that the sealed ultra is too a fantastic subwoofer.It just goes to what you will really be useing it for.

My room in 9x11 at best.Now i dont plain on leaveing my svs pb13 ultra in my little room.Main reason is it's only at best 99 sq feet.That's not alot when you look at it.And it's funny because when i talked to svs yesterday the guy said a PB13 ULTRA would be CRAZY CRAZY cool in your little room.But maybe too much .Then i ask him what about 2 pb13 ultra's in my 9x11 room.And he was like OMG NOOOOOOOO YOUR CRAZY.One would be fine then lmao.Now i have a liveing room in my home.It's 13W x 17L x 8H .There i feel that setup i have would be much better interm's of home theater enjoyment.But for right now mysetup will be in my 9x11 room.
I'm getting ready to move my PC12+ into a 11 X 12 room. Considering the punch in my living room I can't imagine what this sub will do in such a small space. Love to hear your system with a similar size room and ultra's.
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post #17762 of 17777 Old 08-26-2014, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
That is the XS15se not the SB13...aside from that Ricci's room is not going to be like your room or mine. Just because he hit 100db with the XS15 in room does not mean it would in mine. The safe bet is to take the 2m rms ground plane measurements and add about 6db. In that case the SB13 shows about 89db @ 10hz factoring the 6db for inroom placement. 2 of them would equal around 94-95db @ 10hz...

Not saying you are wrong but the size of the room needs to be cnsidered before deciding on which alignment to choose. In a small sealed room (1500^3) a pair of SB13's could probably exceed 100db @ 10hz, in a room 3000^3 not likely. So overall in most cases the PB13 will be the more powerful sub from 12hz on up being the average room is north of 2k^3 and on a open floor plan.


down at 10 hz you get to add more for room gain.. 6 db is for around 16hz the lower you go the more you add!!! |


Ricci's Room is awesome eh adding a ton of gain at 10hz...... much more output than ported subs..


sealed subs is where its at bro!!!!
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post #17763 of 17777 Old 08-26-2014, 07:58 PM
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I'm getting ready to move my PC12+ into a 11 X 12 room. Considering the punch in my living room I can't imagine what this sub will do in such a small space. Love to hear your system with a similar size room and ultra's.
yeah we will see how it all goes.I would like to see how a ultra would sound in my small room lmao.I wont be buying my pb13 ultra for a while tho.Got's bill's to pay off .And if any luck happen's if i get extra cash laying around.Maybe just maybe i will wait till tax season lmao i dont.That's not intill what the first feb or march.So who know's maybe i will get back some cash lol.

And as for your room size i wish my room was that size.It would give me more room for my speaker's to spread out more.11 by 12 room size is a little better then a 9x11.
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post #17764 of 17777 Old 08-26-2014, 10:35 PM
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why not PC12-Plus? why are you waiting for PC-2000( if they will make it).
because $799 is better than $1199. And $799 x 2 is better than $1199 x 2. And I think the 2000 is the best bang for your buck catagory much like reference II is in that bang for your buck zone.

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post #17765 of 17777 Old 08-26-2014, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
down at 10 hz you get to add more for room gain.. 6 db is for around 16hz the lower you go the more you add!!! |


Ricci's Room is awesome eh adding a ton of gain at 10hz...... much more output than ported subs..


sealed subs is where its at bro!!!!

I disagree...you can have your marginal 10hz output, my 16-30hz output is 2.5 x what sealed would be.

Aside from that, if/when I make the jump to DIY, I will be going with LLT cabs tuned to 11hz...can you say 10-12db over sealed at 10hz.
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post #17766 of 17777 Old 08-26-2014, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post
yeah we will see how it all goes.I would like to see how a ultra would sound in my small room lmao.I wont be buying my pb13 ultra for a while tho.Got's bill's to pay off .And if any luck happen's if i get extra cash laying around.Maybe just maybe i will wait till tax season lmao i dont.That's not intill what the first feb or march.So who know's maybe i will get back some cash lol.

And as for your room size i wish my room was that size.It would give me more room for my speaker's to spread out more.11 by 12 room size is a little better then a 9x11.
I've already given my opinion that in the smaller room, the SB resulted in better sound (had ported and sealed ultra)

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post #17767 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 07:18 AM
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because $799 is better than $1199. And $799 x 2 is better than $1199 x 2. And I think the 2000 is the best bang for your buck catagory much like reference II is in that bang for your buck zone.
😀 good it it is a good reason 😉 yes budget is deal maker or braker understand it. You can find them also as you know in outlet section and safe some $$$ and sometimes online is a good deal on used one for even better price if you find somethink close to you. I had mine Pluses each for $949 after all shipping issues.

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post #17768 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
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Those Klipsch subs up the gain in the midbass range I've heard and that's why they sound good to "newbies" but they barely go below 26hz even if that. One thing I heard about the PB-2000 is it performs better than the NSD in the "mid bass" range. Basically I want to give up the Klipsch but I want to make sure 2 PB-2000 will totally slam in the midbass area too. I feel pretty confident they totally will. (...)
But the one thing I'm curious about is one of you mentioned about the SB13 peforming better 40hz and above. Do the sealed woofers tend to have a bit more "punch" in the 80-40 range?
Snowmanick already said it best, but there should be little difference if the subs are EQ'd flat. The sealed woofers may take the lead in output above 40 Hz, but on a system that is EQ'd flat, this means the only difference will be at levels where one of the sub will hit max output, and the other will still have some headroom left.

I'm sorry but I lack the dedication to verify whether your AVR EQs the subs (e.g. Audyssey MultEQ XT) or if you have another EQing method. If not, that may explain the "punch" the Klipsch has in mid-bass. It is not unusual to see subs with peaky response. And in many cases, it can sound good. In clubs, DJ's apply peak filters that severely boost the 80-160 Hz octave to enhance thump. In cars, mine at least (I've measured and simulated it in REW!), the "room response" creates a huge peak at 80-100 Hz. It sounds fantastic for many type of music, and listening the same content on my HT setup --- which is EQ'd flat --- is a bit weird. It seems to lack mid-bass, but at the same time I can hear fare more details that were drowned out in my car.

I think the best case scenario would be to have a setup that is EQ'd flat, but have a source (such as a media player on a PC) on which you can fiddle with the EQing and boost mid-bass at will for the content that warrants it. I did try it once and I can assure you SVS subs can provide plenty of mid-bass thump. The only problem is that you quickly find music or other content that sounds horrible with high mid-bass boost.

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I eventually want them to release a PC-2000. My plan is a PB-2000 + a PC-2000 (because of space limitations). But if they never release a PC-2000 I might have to go 2 SB-2000s.
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I disagree...you can have your marginal 10hz output, my 16-30hz output is 2.5 x what sealed would be.
That's pretty much my reasoning too. Although if you *want* strong ULF in the 10 Hz region, very powerful, very big sealed subs are a must it seems.

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Aside from that, if/when I make the jump to DIY, I will be going with LLT cabs tuned to 11hz...can you say 10-12db over sealed at 10hz.
Indeed, I also find myself to say "when I come around to DIY" quite a lot too Problem is, I have no garage, so the opportunity window is closing fast for this year. Winter is coming guys.

Note that when tuned this low, it looks like the added output due to the ports is much broader and less powerful than, say, at 20 Hz. It looks like there is less and less difference with sealed as you tune lower and lower. At least it looks this way when you compare tunes on the SVS PB series but also the Rhytmik FV15HP. That being said those are not exactly LLT and I guess a much larger enclosure could help.

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because $799 is better than $1199. And $799 x 2 is better than $1199 x 2. And I think the 2000 is the best bang for your buck catagory much like reference II is in that bang for your buck zone.
You are right, especially considering duals, the Plus are quite a bit more expensive. But they also add a key feature: they can be tuned to 16 Hz, which is awesome IMHO. That's one reason I just pulled the trigger for dual Pluses over dual NSDs at the time. And unlike the PC-2000s, they are currently available, which is a non-negligible benefit.

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post #17769 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
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I think you are severely limiting your output due to space. If anything...go with a single SB-2000 or SB-13U if space is a constraint. However, even a single PB-2000 will best both of those in terms of output.

You don't have to get duals...I have a single PB12+ in a 15 x 18 x 9 room that opens to the rest of the house and it rocks the place. Duals help with even-ness of the response...and a bit of extra headroom never hurts.

Going with a ported sub the size of the SB-1000 is not realistic. Ported subs are necessarily larger by physics.
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For your room I will really get the best you can. I understand it need to have a look in living room so S13-Ultra is small and pretty box on 4" bigger on each side. You don't need to have 2 subs, one will be ok but 2 is better smoother and harder or not possible to located where is a bass coming from. You know you have nothing to lose. Best will be to get SB-1000 and let's say sb13-Ultra you have 45 days to play with the and send back what you don't need, no risk free shipping both ways. Then you will never say what if a specially when you don't want to have big ported subs or taller cylinder in your living room.
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That is indeed a common problem. But physics impose a certain physical size if you're to reach serious output at low frequencies. Now, smaller subs are alright if you don't mind not reproducing the lower octaves or if you listen at moderate levels. A mere three years ago I was perfectly content with my HTIB sub which I don't consider a subwoofer anymore nowadays.



I was offended when it was first suggested I should upgrade the above HTIB sub to a $700 SB12-NSD which I found enormous at the time. Now... Well we find ways to make the big sub fit the decor Some use the subs as end tables; others use otherwise wasted space. I for one managed to squeeze two cylinders between my mains and my TV.



They are useful in the sense that they fill in for the absent bottom end of those satellites. They will reproduce the 80-160 Hz octave which some satellites don't even touch. But consider that the THX standard for crossover frequency is 80 Hz, i.e. the subwoofer is typically asked to perform under 80 Hz. A small 6.5" sub will peter out approaching 40 Hz, a whole octave *above* SVS's ported subs native tuning.



As noted above this is pretty hard to do -- in fact physically impossible since the port is pretty big inside the sub. You may want to look at subs with passive radiators (i.e. cones that are not driven). They play the same role as ports, but can be made a bit more compact. That being said, most internet direct sub makers don't offer PR-equipped subs.



The size of the driver alone is a bad way to assert a sub's capabilities. But yes, in the case of the 10" PB-1000, you will get more low-end than the 12" SB-1000. However it is more expensive and the enclosure is still bigger -- it doesn't solve your problem.

What about cylinders? Is taking up space vertically an option?
Thanks for the suggestions. I have to one make very important correction though; the room is ~250 feet^2 (and not ~2500 feet^2 as I wrote before). I screwed up the metric conversion from 25 m^2 in my original post. Sorry for that, but apparently no one else reacted on it, so I was not alone in not noticing it.

Anyway, based on that correction, is there anything you'd like to change about the recommendations?

Finally, I have to say it's not so much even lower frequencies that I think I'm missing with the SVS- SB1000. Instead it's more the "impact" that I'm missing. So shouldn't just turning up the volume on the sub help? I've tried that, but it doesn't seem to help as much as expected for some reason. I've heard some say that ported subs provide more "impact", and that sealed subs require more powerful amplifiers to provide the same impact (all else equal). I'm not sure if that's true though...

PS. Also, I have to add that apart from the issues above, the SB-1000 performs really well. It blends exceptionally well with my other speakers, and they are not boomy at all (something I was afraid of from hearing low quality subs). So it's definitely a good sub, but maybe just not suited for my setup?
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post #17770 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
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Is there a separate thread for the SVS speakers?
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post #17771 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have to one make very important correction though; the room is ~250 feet^2 (and not ~2500 feet^2 as I wrote before). I screwed up the metric conversion from 25 m^2 in my original post. Sorry for that, but apparently no one else reacted on it, so I was not alone in not noticing it.

Anyway, based on that correction, is there anything you'd like to change about the recommendations?

Finally, I have to say it's not so much even lower frequencies that I think I'm missing with the SVS- SB1000. Instead it's more the "impact" that I'm missing. So shouldn't just turning up the volume on the sub help? I've tried that, but it doesn't seem to help as much as expected for some reason. I've heard some say that ported subs provide more "impact", and that sealed subs require more powerful amplifiers to provide the same impact (all else equal). I'm not sure if that's true though...

PS. Also, I have to add that apart from the issues above, the SB-1000 performs really well. It blends exceptionally well with my other speakers, and they are not boomy at all (something I was afraid of from hearing low quality subs). So it's definitely a good sub, but maybe just not suited for my setup?
even at 250sf its still a small subwoofer as far as output goes but you should be getting decent room gain so then the biggest question I'd ask next is how high on the volume are you going on the receiver? , and do you use dynamic EQ? If you set it up with audyssey.
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post #17772 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have to one make very important correction though; the room is ~250 feet^2 (and not ~2500 feet^2 as I wrote before). I screwed up the metric conversion from 25 m^2 in my original post. Sorry for that, but apparently no one else reacted on it, so I was not alone in not noticing it.

Anyway, based on that correction, is there anything you'd like to change about the recommendations?

Finally, I have to say it's not so much even lower frequencies that I think I'm missing with the SVS- SB1000. Instead it's more the "impact" that I'm missing. So shouldn't just turning up the volume on the sub help? I've tried that, but it doesn't seem to help as much as expected for some reason. I've heard some say that ported subs provide more "impact", and that sealed subs require more powerful amplifiers to provide the same impact (all else equal). I'm not sure if that's true though...

PS. Also, I have to add that apart from the issues above, the SB-1000 performs really well. It blends exceptionally well with my other speakers, and they are not boomy at all (something I was afraid of from hearing low quality subs). So it's definitely a good sub, but maybe just not suited for my setup?
I just went back to look for info on your system. By chance did you ever set your speakers to small and raise the crossover to 60-80 hertz?
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post #17773 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 07:17 PM
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So just wanted to ask everyone if you all are going to be picking up the 4th transformer's film.On bluray,me i will be getting it for sure.I enjoy these kind's of action packed film's from bay.That being said i can only emagine how the film will sound on a svs pb13-ultra.and my klipsch RF-7 II setup who know's maybe i will get a ultra by september 30th.
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post #17774 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Snowmanick already said it best, but there should be little difference if the subs are EQ'd flat. The sealed woofers may take the lead in output above 40 Hz, but on a system that is EQ'd flat, this means the only difference will be at levels where one of the sub will hit max output, and the other will still have some headroom left.

I'm sorry but I lack the dedication to verify whether your AVR EQs the subs (e.g. Audyssey MultEQ XT) or if you have another EQing method. If not, that may explain the "punch" the Klipsch has in mid-bass. It is not unusual to see subs with peaky response. And in many cases, it can sound good. In clubs, DJ's apply peak filters that severely boost the 80-160 Hz octave to enhance thump. In cars, mine at least (I've measured and simulated it in REW!), the "room response" creates a huge peak at 80-100 Hz. It sounds fantastic for many type of music, and listening the same content on my HT setup --- which is EQ'd flat --- is a bit weird. It seems to lack mid-bass, but at the same time I can hear fare more details that were drowned out in my car.

I think the best case scenario would be to have a setup that is EQ'd flat, but have a source (such as a media player on a PC) on which you can fiddle with the EQing and boost mid-bass at will for the content that warrants it. I did try it once and I can assure you SVS subs can provide plenty of mid-bass thump. The only problem is that you quickly find music or other content that sounds horrible with high mid-bass boost.





That's pretty much my reasoning too. Although if you *want* strong ULF in the 10 Hz region, very powerful, very big sealed subs are a must it seems.



Indeed, I also find myself to say "when I come around to DIY" quite a lot too Problem is, I have no garage, so the opportunity window is closing fast for this year. Winter is coming guys.

Note that when tuned this low, it looks like the added output due to the ports is much broader and less powerful than, say, at 20 Hz. It looks like there is less and less difference with sealed as you tune lower and lower. At least it looks this way when you compare tunes on the SVS PB series but also the Rhytmik FV15HP. That being said those are not exactly LLT and I guess a much larger enclosure could help.



You are right, especially considering duals, the Plus are quite a bit more expensive. But they also add a key feature: they can be tuned to 16 Hz, which is awesome IMHO. That's one reason I just pulled the trigger for dual Pluses over dual NSDs at the time. And unlike the PC-2000s, they are currently available, which is a non-negligible benefit.
No you do not need large sealed subs. The pair of LLT's I am talking about will do 120db @ 10hz and 130db from 16-30hz, and 140db on up from there. Larged Low Tuned subs reign champion.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...woofer-7043903

2 of these have more output then 4 Submersives in the 10-25hz and about the same output from 30hz on up!!

Last edited by basshead81; Yesterday at 07:55 PM.
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post #17775 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM
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Congrats on the new sub! I know you said your not looking to rattle the walls, but a little rattling can't hurt right? I have the same sub and during some movies it does a fine job of just that. Hope to hear how your's turns out once it is set up.

Enjoy
I finally had the time to set up the new PB-2000 today. WOW! I'm really impressed with this unit. I did the "crawl" and luckily found it sounded best in the spot I was hoping to put it, though my choices were pretty limited anyway. Ran Audyssey (unfortunately my Onkyo 609 only has 2EQ) and played around a little with the exact location of the sub, and am very pleased with the results. I purchased the wireless sub system that SVS sells too, and that's really slick. It sure made trying out different locations pretty easy.

Spent the afternoon playing a wide mix of music both in stereo and 5.1 and it sounds very tight to me musically and when I cranked it, the bass is penetrating. Then I got into a couple of movies. The opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan and Pacific Rim and oh yeah, a whole lotta rattlin' going on! I guess it's true that you can't miss something you never had but obviously with that little PDR I was missing a lot of LF content and/or its visceral effect. TV material sounding great too.

I'm very pleased this unit is turning out to be what I had hoped. As I posted on one of these threads, I'm set up in a large great room; as my son said today, "a sound guy's nightmare". On the plus side there are few parallel surfaces, with half-walls dividing the area and it seems to me that the mix of absorptive and reflective surfaces seem to be working out for me with my system and now this sub. I can't imagine I could want more bass, but I guess I thought that before too. LOL!

I plan to give the SVS guys a call when I get a chance just to see if they have any other thoughts, though I don't think I'm looking for anything more.

Thanks to all of those on the budget sub thread who kindly suggested I really didn't want to go there. I'm absolutely convinced you were right.

“A great thunderstorm of sound gushed from the walls. Music bombarded him at such an immense volume that his bones were almost shaken from their tendons; he felt his jaw vibrate, his eyes wobble in his head. He was a victim of concussion.” ― Fahrenheit 451
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post #17776 of 17777 Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM
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So just wanted to ask everyone if you all are going to be picking up the 4th transformer's film.On bluray,me i will be getting it for sure.I enjoy these kind's of action packed film's from bay.That being said i can only emagine how the film will sound on a svs pb13-ultra.and my klipsch RF-7 II setup who know's maybe i will get a ultra by september 30th.
Nope, seen enough michael bay films. Im at the point where I have enough sound demo movies where I'm picky about what I buy. I have been going back and buying some older blurays to take advantage of my entire sound system. Have been surprised by some of the quality mixes with some surprising amount of base.

Pater Pan (2003) is one of my recent favorites. Had it on DVD, but it's a quality surround sound mix with a couple good base scenes. Happen to love the movie too, which always helps.

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So just wanted to ask everyone if you all are going to be picking up the 4th transformer's film.On bluray,me i will be getting it for sure.I enjoy these kind's of action packed film's from bay.That being said i can only emagine how the film will sound on a svs pb13-ultra.and my klipsch RF-7 II setup who know's maybe i will get a ultra by september 30th.
If I had the choice of being given entire Bay boxset on BD, or being hung, drawn & quartered I'd choose the latter.

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Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Speaker Systems , Svs Sb2000
Gear in this thread - Sb1000 by PriceGrabber.com

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