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post #17821 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by athanur View Post
Thanks for the reassurance, Pavel. There are a couple of reasons why I went with PB-2000. My current sub, REL T1, although good, it will only play down to 30 Hz. BTW, I am selling my REL T1 on craigslist.

As for my towers, yes they are fantastic and I love them. I would like to get the Plus or Ultra subs, but they are sadly out of my price range and besides a bit too much for my one bedroom apartment in San Francisco.

In terms of usage, it's probably going to be 50/50 music and movies. When I do play music, it tends to be SACDs from my collection.

Cheers.

Andy
I understand it completly. We all have some budget. I never hear about your sub on CL I need to check it out. SVS have a great subs. PB-2000 have excellent reviews so I'm sure you will enjoy it. Great about SVS is 1 year upgrade. You can have your sub for whole year and then you can trade it for Plus or Ultra or add second sub. There is 2 resons why SVS is imposible to not love, outstanding subs and amazing customer service!!!!

Let is know what do you think about PB-2000

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post #17822 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I think you'll be very happy with the PB-2000. Your room is 2700 cubic feet, which is close to my room size. I have a PB-2000 and it is more than capable of filling my room. A subdude will help with vibrations, which might annoy neighbors.
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
I understand it completly. We all have some budget. I never hear about your sub on CL I need to check it out. SVS have a great subs. PB-2000 have excellent reviews so I'm sure you will enjoy it. Great about SVS is 1 year upgrade. You can have your sub for whole year and then you can trade it for Plus or Ultra or add second sub. There is 2 resons why SVS is imposible to not love, outstanding subs and amazing customer service!!!!

Let is know what do you think about PB-2000
Thanks retro124, I will post my initial impressions early next week. You're absolutely right - one of the main reasons for SVS is the 1 year upgrade option and excellent customer service experience via online chat before making the purchase. In all likelihood though, I don't think I will be getting a second sub, given that one PB-2000 will be plenty sufficient in my one bedroom apartment in San Francisco.

Cheers.

Andy

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post #17823 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 05:20 PM
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Well, I just ordered a PC12-NSD ($649). This is my first SVS subwoofer and looking forward to delivery day.

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post #17824 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by athanur View Post
BTW, I am selling my REL T1 on craigslist.
Put it in the classifieds here, too.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #17825 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post
Well, I just ordered a PC12-NSD ($649). This is my first SVS subwoofer and looking forward to delivery day.
Good for you, enjoy your new sub !!! Congrats !!!

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post #17826 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post
That's not a dumb question at all

It seems this depends on the voltage output of your sub pre out on your particular AVRs. Some output 0.9 V peak, others 2V peak. Then it also depends on playback level. For example, "normal listening volume" for some may be -35 dB from reference for nighttime television in a closed-off room. For others, this may be -15 dB from reference because of other ambient noise (open windows, kids playing, etc.). Add to that the content itself... Sometimes it's very quiet so a strong enough signal may only happen a few seconds after turning the setup on.

I was in your situation using a Pio AVR and the SB12 and generally listening at low volumes. I had to bump the sub signal on the AVR and reduce the gain on the sub to help.

One way to help alleviate the problem if the AVR is not outputting a large signal is to use, say, a MiniDSP to EQ the sub, and adjust the gain so that the MiniDSP outputs a larger signal.

That being said, you can also leave the sub on. However sometimes this might generate a low hum depending on your electrical connections. If it's not the case, it sure won't eat through your electric bill
...
Ah! Thanks for the comments. I hadn't considered the sub trim on the AVR sending a weak signal. I am at -5 currently (-12 to 12 scale). The relevant spec on the AVR for output seems to be 1V, 470 ohm on the pre-outs, which I'm assuming includes the sub-out as there is no seperate listing. I'll admit I get a bit hazy on output specs vs input specs of the different bits if equipment (does SVS even publish them for the sub side of things? ) - I blame a lifetime of all in ones and integrated amps!

I will have a muck around with the levels when my UMIK1 gets here. Got the shipping notice this morning I figure a minidsp is on the cards but want to measure up first and work out the best way to proceed, looking at the whole audio spectrum, with the limited funds that trickle through as play money with a young family.
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post #17827 of 25140 Old 09-10-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Your room is about 2.5 times the size of mine.
I was thinking it was a mistake and you meant 200. Yea dual Ultras in a closet is overkill. Room gain much? Rofl

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post #17828 of 25140 Old 09-11-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pieface1 View Post
I hadn't considered the sub trim on the AVR sending a weak signal. I am at -5 currently (-12 to 12 scale).
Ok so you have a bit of room to play with. Without changing the overall level, you could double the signal from the AVR (adding 6 dB to +1, which would still sit pretty close to the middle of the trim range), while reducing the sub gain by the same amount, -6 dB. Doubling the signal from the AVR may very well do the trick to reliably trigger the auto-on feature at lower listening levels.

Or you could just run the sub a bit hotter

Quote:
The relevant spec on the AVR for output seems to be 1V, 470 ohm on the pre-outs, which I'm assuming includes the sub-out as there is no seperate listing.
All pre outs should have the same specs indeed. I think this varies a lot depending on the AVR. What is yours again? I've had three previously. The manual on my older Pioneer 1020 doesn't spec the pre outs. On my Onkyo 818, the rated output is 0.2V and max output is 4.6V (470-ohm impedance seems standard). On my Denon X4000, the analog outputs are rated at 1.2V. So right there the rated output from the Denon looks to be 6 times the rated output on the Onkyo. Perhaps I'm reading the specs wrong but it seems the figures are all over the place depending on the AVR. That makes it though to choose an appropriate threshold for the sub amp's standby mode I guess.

Quote:
I'll admit I get a bit hazy on output specs vs input specs of the different bits if equipment (does SVS even publish them for the sub side of things? ) - I blame a lifetime of all in ones and integrated amps!
The whole picture is fuzzy I think And no I've never seen the numbers (e.g. the voltage threshold for waking up an SVS sub). It may also be a sustained level for some duration, who knows. Anyway, the trick is to raise the sub's input to facilitate wake up.

Quote:
I will have a muck around with the levels when my UMIK1 gets here.
Since the UMIK-1 is calibrated in an absolute manner, you will be able to use it as an SPL meter too with REW, so it will come handy.

Quote:
I figure a minidsp is on the cards but want to measure up first and work out the best way to proceed, looking at the whole audio spectrum, with the limited funds that trickle through as play money with a young family.
Yeah, and while this is not necessarily encouraging for you, depending of the age of your kids, you may not even have much time to play with it anyway I haven't played with mine since my we had our second kid. It's been a year now... Then again, it's a set-and-forget thing, mostly.
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post #17829 of 25140 Old 09-11-2014, 08:26 AM
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Yea dual Ultras in a closet is overkill. Room gain much? Rofl
Indeed, it's way overkill. In terms of output anyway.

But aren't small rooms more difficult to tame because the nulls and peaks are often more pronounced or closer together? One could justify dual subs in a very small room to help have a flatter response and better uniformity. I know someone who did.

Also if your goal is to dig down well below 20 Hz, dual sealed Ultras in a small room could potentially generate enough room gain to have non-negligible output down to 10 Hz and perhaps below. Who cares if there's enough headroom above 40 Hz to cause permanent hearing damage.

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post #17830 of 25140 Old 09-11-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athanur View Post
New owner of PB-2000 here.

Hi everyone, my first time in this sub forum.

I live in an apartment building in San Francisco, so any useful hints about limiting low frequency leakages to neighboring units will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by athanur View Post
I am, if not anything, a considerate neighbor.

Congrats on the new sub and Welcome to the SVS club!

It's nice to see you are a considerate neighbor if only more could be like you! As for the low frequency sounds they will travel through the floors and walls. I've talked to my neighbor's and they are cool with my music and movie's played at reasonable times.
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post #17831 of 25140 Old 09-11-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by athanur View Post
I live in an apartment building in San Francisco, so any useful hints about limiting low frequency leakages to neighboring units will be greatly appreciated.
As noted above, the very low frequency components will travel easily between walls and floors unless they are sufficiently massive (bricks, concrete). Firewalls are best since they typically include layers of different fireproof materials that are good at absorbing bass.

On some AVR's you may find features to restrict low frequency leakage, such as Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Containment). All this does is high-pass the sub output to limit very low frequencies.

If you experience rattles due to mechanical coupling between the sub and other objects (vents, furniture, etc., typically through the floort) then as noted earlier, a riser or rubber mat or SVS's own product (short rubber legs) can help tremendously. That won't prevent the actual sound from the driver from reaching neighbors though.

If you know your neighbors well, a good trick is to let them experience the thing from time to time
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post #17832 of 25140 Old 09-11-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
As noted above, the very low frequency components will travel easily between walls and floors unless they are sufficiently massive (bricks, concrete). Firewalls are best since they typically include layers of different fireproof materials that are good at absorbing bass.

On some AVR's you may find features to restrict low frequency leakage, such as Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Containment). All this does is high-pass the sub output to limit very low frequencies.

If you experience rattles due to mechanical coupling between the sub and other objects (vents, furniture, etc., typically through the floort) then as noted earlier, a riser or rubber mat or SVS's own product (short rubber legs) can help tremendously. That won't prevent the actual sound from the driver from reaching neighbors though.

If you know your neighbors well, a good trick is to let them experience the thing from time to time
Thanks neutro. Based on what you've mentioned, I have to look in to Audyssey LFC on my AVR. My AVR does have Audyssey MultiEQXT32, and possibly the risers.

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post #17833 of 25140 Old 09-11-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Would dual SB Ultra 13's in a 20 cu meter room be stupid?
More bass is always better than less bass.
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post #17834 of 25140 Old 09-12-2014, 06:52 AM
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Cool SB12-NSD vs SB1000 (once again)

I've been searching the avsforum for like an hour now and I do find a lot of information about both the SVS SB12-NSD and the SVS SB1000, and a lot of questions about how these 2 compare, but no good comparison.

If I could buy either one of them, for the same amount of money, would there be any benefit of choosing the SB1000 over the SB12-NSD? (other than the SB1000 looking better with the cover on ).
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post #17835 of 25140 Old 09-12-2014, 06:56 AM
 
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Size, the SB1000 is smaller. But the SB12 is the superior sub
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post #17836 of 25140 Old 09-12-2014, 07:44 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply. I had also contacted SVS, and they too replied very quickly:

"It's about 50% more capable in the deep bass than the SB-1000, so at the same price it's an easy choice for me." Jack Gilvey, Senior Customer Service Associate

If someone has other thoughts, do enlighten me!
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post #17837 of 25140 Old 09-12-2014, 07:48 AM
 
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Size of the room? SB12 might not sufficient if you have a larger room, want it for movies, for higher output levels.

Got a older SVS SB12 sub and the Ultra 13. Go for the Ultra 13, if movies are important. If all you want a music sub, then dual SB1000, dual SB2000, or dual SB12NSD would be suitable.
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post #17838 of 25140 Old 09-12-2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
I was thinking it was a mistake and you meant 200. Yea dual Ultras in a closet is overkill. Room gain much? Rofl
Don't lie, you would LOVE dual ultras in a closet.
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post #17839 of 25140 Old 09-13-2014, 10:39 AM
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I've had a PC12-NSD for a couple of years. Last night while watching Pacific Rim I noticed the limiter going off quite a bit half way through the film. I'd never ever seen the limiter going off prior to this. I was listening at -15db -12.5 on my receiver (Denon X4000 so XT32 calibrated) with Dynamic EQ engaged. I now see it quite a bit watching films when LFE kicks in sometimes listening at -20 to 25db. (albeit less often). The sub sounds the same but I'm a bit concerned since I've never seen it go off before. I spoke to SVS about it and the tech thought it was strange that I hadn't seen it before and thought that perhaps the connection was loose on the LED and now it's making contact and going off but it's nothing to be concerned with. Does this sound normal to you guys or should I be concerned that something is defective?

FYI room size is 3500 ft^3 and opens to a kitchen which is probably another 1500 ft^3.
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post #17840 of 25140 Old 09-13-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jgminder View Post
I've had a PC12-NSD for a couple of years. Last night while watching Pacific Rim I noticed the limiter going off quite a bit half way through the film. I'd never ever seen the limiter going off prior to this. I was listening at -15db -12.5 on my receiver (Denon X4000 so XT32 calibrated) with Dynamic EQ engaged. I now see it quite a bit watching films when LFE kicks in sometimes listening at -20 to 25db. (albeit less often). The sub sounds the same but I'm a bit concerned since I've never seen it go off before. I spoke to SVS about it and the tech thought it was strange that I hadn't seen it before and thought that perhaps the connection was loose on the LED and now it's making contact and going off but it's nothing to be concerned with. Does this sound normal to you guys or should I be concerned that something is defective?

FYI room size is 3500 ft^3 and opens to a kitchen which is probably another 1500 ft^3.
Dynamic EQ really exaggerates the LFE and is probably why it's pushing the sub so far. I quit using dynamic EQ a while back and find it sounds better without it once you get it set right.
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post #17841 of 25140 Old 09-13-2014, 12:16 PM
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Size of the room? SB12 might not sufficient if you have a larger room, want it for movies, for higher output levels.

Thanks for the input.

It's 2800 cubic feet, that's including the adjacent 500 cubic feet kitchen. I want it for the lack of low out of my 2 Dali Zensor 1's (the 3's didn't had the needed WAF ) connected to my Onkyo TX NR 636.

Movies 75%, music 25% (Jazz, Classical, some pop, no dub-step or anything like that) and I don't want my neighbours couch shaking.
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post #17842 of 25140 Old 09-13-2014, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Elekid View Post
Thanks for the input.

It's 2800 cubic feet, that's including the adjacent 500 cubic feet kitchen. I want it for the lack of low out of my 2 Dali Zensor 1's (the 3's didn't had the needed WAF ) connected to my Onkyo TX NR 636.

Movies 75%, music 25% (Jazz, Classical, some pop, no dub-step or anything like that) and I don't want my neighbours couch shaking.
yeah you need to go further up the chain than SB12. I'd say dual SB 12" minimum, but I'd let others with similar sized rooms and dual SB12 voice their opinions. I would think though dual SB12, or a single PB2000, or a single SB Ultra 13 should be suitable. If movies isn't a priority and just a music system then I bet a single SB 12 should be enough as music doesn't have much low bass, and generally you have it calibrated a bit cold. Music with subwoofer a bit hot ruins it.
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post #17843 of 25140 Old 09-13-2014, 07:28 PM
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Hi - wondering if dual PB-2000's would have similar performance to dual PC-12NSD's? Approximately 2,900 cu. ft room, carpeted, mainly sealed.

Would a single PC-12Plus outperform either/both of the dual options?

About 90% movie/TV viewing.

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post #17844 of 25140 Old 09-13-2014, 08:12 PM
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Hi - wondering if dual PB-2000's would have similar performance to dual PC-12NSD's? Approximately 2,900 cu. ft room, carpeted, mainly sealed.

Would a single PC-12Plus outperform either/both of the dual options?

About 90% movie/TV viewing.

Thanks.
I don't know how much different is between PB-2000 and PC-12NSD but I'm just guessing they are very close maybe PB-2000 just slightly better not sure if is able to hear it. Then I was buying mine subs Ed from SVS told me dual PB-2000 will outperform single Plus + all the benefit to have 2 subs. Same like dual Pluses outperform single Ultra (3db +/-).

If we are talking about only single sub then better you can get will be a good score.

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post #17845 of 25140 Old 09-14-2014, 09:13 PM
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Just picked up a PB-2000 on Friday from a seller on craiglist. After getting it home I decided the room needs a second one ~3,000 cubic feet and put the order in with SVS on Saturday. These will be in the room with a definitive mythos ST setup..can't wait. Any tips from folks? I plan on having them both up from.
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post #17846 of 25140 Old 09-14-2014, 10:57 PM
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Just picked up a PB-2000 on Friday from a seller on craiglist. After getting it home I decided the room needs a second one ~3,000 cubic feet and put the order in with SVS on Saturday. These will be in the room with a definitive mythos ST setup..can't wait. Any tips from folks? I plan on having them both up from.
Congrats to tour new subs. You did good to go dual. It is amazing to have a 2 subs. Placing can be little tricky just move subs around room and you will see where they will sound the best. I have them in front and they are super there.

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post #17847 of 25140 Old 09-15-2014, 10:33 AM
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Thoughts after a week with my PB12-NSD in my 5000 cu ft living room

I've already documented my work with optimizing sub placement and EQing to optimize sub response across all listening positions on my main couch in earlier posts: Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

I've been watching a few movies and shows (Transformers, Transformers Dark of the moon, Gravity, Hunger Games Catching Fire, Super 8 Intro and The Pacific) over the last few days to break in the system and to gauge the audio quality. As my measurements have shown, the single PB12-NSD in a corner actually works quite well at my seating position (which is ~12 ft from the sub). I might be getting some near field benefit since the bass is certainly not as clear or well defined towards the back of the room (kitchen area), but I have to say that the single sub is more than adequate in my setup. Another sub would perhaps help smooth out response across seating spaces (but I have no room for another one) but I don't see it actually helping improve sub response at my sweet spot where I get pretty much flat response all the way to ~19Hz. This is with the gain setting at 12 o' clock position and receiver set to -7dB for the sub channel so I have plenty of head room even with a single sub.

Impressions so far have been simply WOW! . The 20-40Hz bass really makes such a massive difference to the entire HT experience and the level of immersion when viewing movies. The 40-80Hz bass is nice, and that's what I was hearing/feeling previously with my Dayton sub-1200, but the real difference in immersion does come from the lower frequency content. I was watching an episode from the HBO series "The Pacific" last night and every explosion felt so immersive with very crisp/clear LFE content shaking my room/couch. With the first few explosions, I actually found myself shrinking back into the seat as if to try and get away from the explosions . The bass also integrates beautifully with my budget setup (3 Infinity Primus P163s for LCR and cheap Logitech Z5500 satellite speakers for surrounds) and there is zero localization issues (Xover on receiver set to 90Hz - 90Hz gave a smoother transition to the speakers than 80Hz as measured by REW).

All-in-all, this has been a very satisfying purchase! I am certainly now a believer and supporter in the bandwagon recommending that a large portion of HT budget be devoted to the subwoofer. I think 4X more expensive speakers would sound nice, but would not add too much to my HT experience over my Primus speakers. But I know for a fact that a 4X increase in sub budget from the Dayton to the PB12 has provided a massive increase in the overall HT experience!

However, all my experimenting has also taught me the real importance of making measurements and spending the time to properly setup a subwoofer in your HT space. I think it is unfortunate that many folks seem to spend big bucks on expensive subs and then just place them in a single position, turn up the gain and run Audyssey/YPAO and call it a day. A sub crawl is certainly a step in the right direction, but even that won't tell you anything about specific room modes resulting in nulls at specific frequencies. For the amount everyone invests in these subs, I think they owe it to themselves to spend a day or two with proper equipment (mic + REW) taking measurements and determining the best subwoofer settings and placement for their seating locations. I have a sneaky suspicion that a subset of folks posting here who didn't bother to spend the time and effort to make measurements could have avoided more expensive/powerful subs or moving to dual subs if they had spent more time optimizing their setup with an existing sub. I know that if I had selected any of the other potential locations for the SVS, I would have been very underwhelmed with overall response and would have chalked it down to my large room size and the sub being insufficient for the room volume.

Last edited by orion2001; 09-15-2014 at 10:38 AM.
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post #17848 of 25140 Old 09-17-2014, 08:38 PM
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Great news for all Canadian's:

SVS Now Ships all Products Direct to Canada with Free Shipping to most Regions

!!! 45 days free Audition No risk at all !!!!

Good luck to all SVS fan's in Canada

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SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
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post #17849 of 25140 Old 09-17-2014, 08:38 PM
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Denon X6200W
Klipsch RF-7II's, RC-64II, RB-81II's, RS-62II's, RS-52II's
SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
Sony XBR65X850B
Emotiva XPA-200, UPA-7 Oppo 103D
Apple Mac mini, Sony PS3
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post #17850 of 25140 Old 09-17-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Great news for all Canadian's:

SVS Now Ships all Products Direct to Canada with Free Shipping to most Regions

!!! 45 days free Audition No risk at all !!!!

Good luck to all SVS fan's in Canada
Too bad they can't do that for Hawaii and Alaska. 😞
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