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post #17821 of 19081 Old 09-05-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
I'm starting to think the same thing. The duals made a big difference, but the ED sub is only a 200 watt sub (it can still play about as low as the PB-2000) but doesn't have the same power. I think having two of the same sub would be an even better improvement. Although I do really love the improvement I'm hearing already, even with the lesser powered ED sub. All this time I had no idea what I was missing not having dual subs.
Yes me to, even not sub I was shocked what I missed all those years. Well when you feel like to try second SVS just go for it, free 45 days trial make it easy.

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post #17822 of 19081 Old 09-05-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
Yeah, the wives/girlfriends don't necessarily like the look of a subwoofer. Although, my wife actually commented on how much better the entire system sounded with two subwoofers. That right there was something for me - she never comments except to say something is too loud.
Unfortunately, I did not get the "sounds good" callout. I know what you mean as to its value, as normally when I say an upgrade "sounds good, doesn't it?" she's usually replies "i guess... it sounded fine before to me though".

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Tell your girlfriend you are not that bad, I spend on cardboard tubes over $2000 . My wife and I we love looks of cylinder sub so we are ok to have them next towers.

It does seem like they were made to belong next to towers.

Now that I've got her to accept the cylinders, next up is GiK acoustic room treatments, and then four on-ceiling speakers for Atmos. This month I am definitely pushing her to the limits. ::fingers crossed::

I can foresee mention that I spent $1000 on "cloth covered boards"...

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post #17823 of 19081 Old 09-05-2014, 01:03 PM
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If some women can't tell the difference when you add 2 NSD subs, I just have to guess that some women only have 10% hearing ability. I would get her some hearing aides.

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post #17824 of 19081 Old 09-05-2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
If some women can't tell the difference when you add 2 NSD subs, I just have to guess that some women only have 10% hearing ability. I would get her some hearing aides.
Yeah, no kidding. I can feel the difference after adding 2 NSD subs.

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post #17825 of 19081 Old 09-05-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post
Yeah, no kidding. I can feel the difference after adding 2 NSD subs.
Coming from a Klipsch RW12D my wife gave me one of these looks then a after I cranked up the first action flick after getting my SB13 Ultra.

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post #17826 of 19081 Old 09-05-2014, 04:46 PM
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I just got my PC12 Plus. It's a complete LFE beast, but I had to set the plate amp's volume at -13db (with the AVR's LFE output at -2db) to get it to sound awesome. The plate amp's volume control ranges from -100 to 0db, so I'm really close to the sub's maximum volume. At -50db, the sub does next to nothing. Is this normal? What volume do you guys run your Plus/Ultra subs at?
Thats very normal for the digital amps.
Its not a volume control, the closer to 00 you set it the more power it can put out when the signal ask for it. You just dont need all 800 watts for your room, tbh you should turn the amp up and lower the avr sub level to get the most dynamics out of it.
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post #17827 of 19081 Old 09-06-2014, 07:01 PM
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Let's see if it works?
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post #17828 of 19081 Old 09-06-2014, 08:43 PM
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Let's see if it works?
I saw your post of these photos in the SVS Ultra 13 thread, and that it only cost you $20 to build... looks really clean. You definitely need to post pics of your SB13 Ultra sitting on it!

Hopefully, the foam you used is some sort of super-dense acoustic foam. Even so... be sure to keep a close eye on it for several days. When I first got my little SB12, I also built an isolation stand for it. In my case, what I ended up with was two layers of 2"-thick acoustic foam sandwiched in between three 12"x12" pieces of 3/8"-thick polished black granite.

But initially, I tried using just a single-layer sandwich, with a 12"x12"x3" block of "similar" foam, which was slightly less dense than the acoustic foam. The SB12 sat on that overnight -- with its grill attached -- and the next morning, while I was sitting at my desk, next to the sub... it fell forward, onto the floor!

Apparently, the steel grills on these SVS sealed subs add a very significant amount of weight to the front of the subs. Enough so, that in less than twelve hours, it had compressed the front edge of the non-acoustic foam enough to cause the sub to pitch over, forward. Fortunately, since its "fall" was really only a gentle "roll" onto the floor, the SB12 wasn't harmed at all.

Thankfully, I haven't had that problem at all with the dual-layered acoustic-foamed isolator (it's been in place for 18 months now)... but I also leave the SB12's grill off.

The whole reason I'm pointing this out, of course, is because an SB12 only weighs about 35 pounds... and your SB13U weighs 92!

Keep us posted about your results!
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post #17829 of 19081 Old 09-06-2014, 09:06 PM
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OK can anyoe please tell me .I dont think this is a DUMB question to askBut please any one that own's a Pb-13 ultra and that has the second part of the hobbit the desolation of smuag.The part in the film when bilbo talks to smaug in the castle.When smaug get's mad and start's to blow fire .IS THIS MOMENT REALLY BASS DRIVEN.mAIN REASON I ASK THIS IS BECAUSE I DONT OWN A SUBWOOFER OR ULTRA YET.And i wanted to see if that key moment in the film is BASS driven when smaug blow's fire at everyone.Because on my RF-7 II i dont get bass much i just get a whole lot of fantastic crisp detail.I am missing that Hit tho that moment when you feel the fire.I dont get it that much.with just the 5.0 klipsch setup.Can someone tell me if it's because of bass.I think it is but i just want answer's.
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post #17830 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 03:16 PM
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So I have a 20-39PC+ from 2003 or 2004. I see that the PB12-NSD is on sale for $649 right now so I was thinking about getting that for a second subwoofer to go with my Denon 4520 receiver I got last month. Will the PB12-NSD work OK with my old SVS subwoofer? I do have the upgraded driver installed that SVS had available years ago.

Or since the PB12-NSD is on closeout, are they supposed to be coming out with a better replacement model? Or am I mistaken and it isn't on closeout and it's just a sale?

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post #17831 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post
OK can anyoe please tell me .I dont think this is a DUMB question to askBut please any one that own's a Pb-13 ultra and that has the second part of the hobbit the desolation of smuag.The part in the film when bilbo talks to smaug in the castle.When smaug get's mad and start's to blow fire .IS THIS MOMENT REALLY BASS DRIVEN.mAIN REASON I ASK THIS IS BECAUSE I DONT OWN A SUBWOOFER OR ULTRA YET.And i wanted to see if that key moment in the film is BASS driven when smaug blow's fire at everyone.Because on my RF-7 II i dont get bass much i just get a whole lot of fantastic crisp detail.I am missing that Hit tho that moment when you feel the fire.I dont get it that much.with just the 5.0 klipsch setup.Can someone tell me if it's because of bass.I think it is but i just want answer's.
Its not really a bass scenes in anyway, at -10 with DEQ on and subs 3-5 db hot on the subs the largest peak was 102dbc(avg of smaug was about 96 dbc) and untill the very last minute of the movie I saw a 105 peak when smaug flys.
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post #17832 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 05:07 PM
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It did squish a bit in the front. I had to set it all the way to the back of the MDF. Thanks for the heads up. I will definitely keep an eye on it.
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post #17833 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jwtallguy View Post
Its not really a bass scenes in anyway, at -10 with DEQ on and subs 3-5 db hot on the subs the largest peak was 102dbc(avg of smaug was about 96 dbc) and untill the very last minute of the movie I saw a 105 peak when smaug flys.
At -10 with no bass right now my movies are loud but not to a point were is so loud you cant take the sound.I feel when i add the svs pb13 ultra at -10 my sound is going to sound unreal.
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post #17834 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post
At -10 with no bass right now my movies are loud but not to a point were is so loud you cant take the sound.I feel when i add the svs pb13 ultra at -10 my sound is going to sound unreal.
Yes it will be amazing in your room, it will clean up your walls from pictures, tv or other items what you have there unless you screw them in pretty well

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post #17835 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 09:33 PM
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Yes it will be amazing in your room, it will clean up your walls from pictures, tv or other items what you have there unless you screw them in pretty well
I dont have any pics on the walls in my room.But i do have my LED samsung tv on my wall.Thank god i got the stud's in the wall lmao.That tv or that wall mount are not going anywere.It can hold me and i am about 160 pounds.
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post #17836 of 19081 Old 09-07-2014, 09:52 PM
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I dont have any pics on the walls in my room.But i do have my LED samsung tv on my wall.Thank god i got the stud's in the wall lmao.That tv or that wall mount are not going anywere.It can hold me and i am about 160 pounds.
This is a nice deal:

SVS PB-13 Ultra Duals
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post #17837 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 12:08 AM
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Just joined AVS after lurking around on and off for a fair while and thought it appropriate to make my first post here seeing as I have read most of it over time.

I got 2 x SB12NSD for my 3250ft3 lounge room recently. I had a few hiccups with a ground hum to chase down and a basic setup error on my part (sitting in a big null is silly! ) Very happy so far with their performance for 2 channel music which was my priority. It has opened up the soundstage width and depth just as I had hoped and my mains seem to be delivering more detail with the heavy lifting off their shoulders.

Movies there has been a big upgrade in the bass but I wouldn't say I'm shaking the foundations or anything. Will need wifey to take an outing to see what I have up my sleeve as anything louder than -30dB has resulted in the turn it down/stink eye combo. I don't have any real point of reference for home theatre but I'm liking what I'm hearing so far.

Aiming to have a crack at some room measurement in the coming weeks and see what the microphone reckons. The bass level seems pretty consistent around the room barring the null in the centre and the gain in the corners. Currently running both at the front on a 1/4 wall placement. Works well for the room setup but I do have a few other locations that may be feasible if there is a pronounced benefit.
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post #17838 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 04:06 AM
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Just joined AVS after lurking around on and off for a fair while and thought it appropriate to make my first post here seeing as I have read most of it over time.

I got 2 x SB12NSD for my 3250ft3 lounge room recently.

Movies there has been a big upgrade in the bass but I wouldn't say I'm shaking the foundations or anything. Will need wifey to take an outing to see what I have up my sleeve as anything louder than -30dB has resulted in the turn it down/stink eye combo.

Congrats on the new Dual sub set up!

Yes if she is not a big fan of louder music or movie's then an outing for her is in order. From most of the posts I've seen an even myself listen from -15 to -10 during movies. I've have not yet tried to push it past -10 during movies as it's loud enough for me to hear and feel.

So first chance you get to pop in a movie crank it up and shake your foundation!! Hope to hear your thoughts after.
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post #17839 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 04:29 AM
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Getting ready to pull the trigger and join the SVS club. I'm currently looking at the SB-1000 due to its small footprint. This will be added with my Definitive Technology BP-8060ST towers. I also looked into the PB-1000, larger footprint but do ported subs go lower/play louder? The sub will be used for movie soundtracks mostly, when I listen to music I like using direct/pure audio mode and letting my DT play full range.

My living room is 1,232 cubic feet

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post #17840 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 05:33 AM
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I would think SB1000 isn't enough for room of that size for movies. I wasn't impressed with SB12+ in a smaller room than that...so went for SB Ultra 13 heh heh

I'd Probably step up to SB2000 or PB2000 if you can, or SB Ultra 13 if you want a smaller box.

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post #17841 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 07:52 AM
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Go with the PB-1000 if possible....or if this room is truly sealed off a pair of SB-2000's or one SB13
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post #17842 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 09:45 AM
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I spoke to Ed at SVS and he recommends the SB-2000 since I want to keep a small footprint. I will make a decision once I get out of work. Thanks for your replies.
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post #17843 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 10:04 AM
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I spoke to Ed at SVS and he recommends the SB-2000 since I want to keep a small footprint. I will make a decision once I get out of work. Thanks for your replies.
With all respect to Ed he is great guy and know a lot about subs and speaker I will probably get better sub then SB-2000 for your nice towers. On other hand why not to start with this one there is no risk you can enjoy it for 45 days play with it and if you want more just send it back for replacement. The best will be if your budget is ok with it get 2 subs what you like the most at same time compare them and keep one you love more. There is only one risk maybe you will love dual Subs even more so it will cost you more om end( it was my case)

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post #17844 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 10:22 AM
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if it's just small footprint you could get cylinders. I personally love them, they look great. And they might be coming out with PC-2000 some time this year. A PC-2000 vs. a SB-2000 I think the PC-2000 for movies is going to be a much smarter choice.

Now your room is smaller than mine and mine isn't even sealed off. And even what I have now really shakes. You could consider 2 of their PC12-NSD on closeout for $650. If you get duals you could knock off $100+ on the total price. That might be the best bang for your buck if you ask me. 2 PC-12NSD would be much better than 1 SB-2000 and not a huge amount of money more.

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post #17845 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 01:09 PM
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I spoke to Ed at SVS and he recommends the SB-2000 since I want to keep a small footprint. I will make a decision once I get out of work. Thanks for your replies.
SB Ultra has quite a few useful features. Plus real wood/gloss.

Go on.

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post #17846 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 01:30 PM
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Got my PB12-NSD from the recent outlet deal ($499 for like new condition with no damage) and just set it up last night. This is replacing my previous Dayton Audio Sub-1200. The NSD is massive! Fortunately my wife is okay with it in the corner. The PB12-NSD is certainly a big improvement over the Dayton sub-1200, but I have to say that I am quite impressed with the capabilities of the sub-1200 for a ~$120 subwoofer.

Unfortunately I have a large ~ 5000cu ft living room so I'm not going to reap the full benefits of this woofer and duals are out of the question. I could do duals with the sub-1200 and the NSD but no way I can accommodate 2 NSD size subs in my living room. The consensus is that the sub-1200 would be better left out of my setup, and from some testing last night, it appears that they don't really provide much benefit to me.

I'll play around with REW and spectrum analyzers with pink noise tonight and post some graphs soon. Unfortunately, 1 out of the 3 listening positions on my couch has a really sharp dip ~ 40Hz that I don't think I can alleviate without going to duals. The graph below (for my sub-1200) shows what I am talking about (sub at Right Corner location). I have the exact same response with the PB12-NSD, except of course with a lot more extension below 40Hz.

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post #17847 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 01:36 PM
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I had the PB12-NSD for over a year in my 5000 cubic ft room and was pleasantly surprised out how much output I got from it. I drove it hard and was very happy until I got the upgrade bug.

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post #17848 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 01:46 PM
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Got my PB12-NSD from the recent outlet deal ($499 for like new condition with no damage) and just set it up last night. This is replacing my previous Dayton Audio Sub-1200. The NSD is massive! Fortunately my wife is okay with it in the corner. The PB12-NSD is certainly a big improvement over the Dayton sub-1200, but I have to say that I am quite impressed with the capabilities of the sub-1200 for a ~$120 subwoofer.

Unfortunately I have a large ~ 5000cu ft living room so I'm not going to reap the full benefits of this woofer and duals are out of the question. I could do duals with the sub-1200 and the NSD but no way I can accommodate 2 NSD size subs in my living room. The consensus is that the sub-1200 would be better left out of my setup, and from some testing last night, it appears that they don't really provide much benefit to me.

I'll play around with REW and spectrum analyzers with pink noise tonight and post some graphs soon. Unfortunately, 1 out of the 3 listening positions on my couch has a really sharp dip ~ 40Hz that I don't think I can alleviate without going to duals. The graph below (for my sub-1200) shows what I am talking about (sub at Right Corner location). I have the exact same response with the PB12-NSD, except of course with a lot more extension below 40Hz.

That's a similar problem I ran into on my setup. The 40-70Hz region was too loud whereas the 20-40Hz content was drowned out by it. I got the PB12-Plus so I was able to use the PEQs to bring down these peaks and it completely opened up my setup and improved the performance dramatically. What mic are you using? I find it odd that you drop off so quickly at 40Hz and it doesn't appear to level off? Could your calibration be messed up somewhere?

Perhaps you should invest in a MiniDSP or upgrade to the plus?

EDIT: Ah, so this is the Dayton. Ok that makes sense. Curious to see your new plots. Might still want to invest in a EQ system.
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post #17849 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I had the PB12-NSD for over a year in my 5000 cubic ft room and was pleasantly surprised out how much output I got from it. I drove it hard and was very happy until I got the upgrade bug.
Thanks Tom. I do recall reading your posts on the PB12-NSD in your large space when I was researching my purchase, and it was one of the reasons I went ahead with getting the PB12-NSD :-). Out of curiosity...what did you upgrade to and are you still using a single sub setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post
That's a similar problem I ran into on my setup. The 40-70Hz region was too loud whereas the 20-40Hz content was drowned out by it. I got the PB12-Plus so I was able to use the PEQs to bring down these peaks and it completely opened up my setup and improved the performance dramatically. What mic are you using? I find it odd that you drop off so quickly at 40Hz and it doesn't appear to level off? Could your calibration be messed up somewhere?
Heh, I'm actually using my phone mic :-), but it isn't too shabby to get a sense of how things work. My ears agree with the readings from my phone mic (using an SPL meter app) and right now, I am several hundred dollars overspent on my HT budget (between all new speakers, receivers, colormunki display and now 2 subs) so another $80+ mic purchase is out of the question.

I'll post updated plots soon. Definitely do get much more response (close to flat) to around 25Hz at which point output drops (and then sharply drops off past 18Hz). Since I play pretty much all content via my HTPC, I am investigating http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/ which looks very promising for performing sub and speaker parametric equalization at the soundcard driver level.

However, I'm still not sure how useful PEQ would be in my situation. Ultimately, with a single sub, I can only really optimize for a single sweet spot location. Optimizing for the center seating position will still leave me with the sharp dip at around 45Hz for the left seating position. I think the only way to smooth it all out is something along the lines of the Geddes approach with 3 - 4 subs (at which point I'll have to replace my couches with an array of cushioned subs )
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post #17850 of 19081 Old 09-08-2014, 02:31 PM
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^I got a single PB13 Ultra. I'm running single for now, but I'm moving to a home where my HT will be in a 12,000 cubic ft room, so I will be going duals then. It's not an ideal space at all. I have an open game room upstairs, but I lost it to the kids - it's in between their 3 rooms. This space will have to do until I can convert the attic space or maybe the study, lol.

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