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post #18361 of 18388 Old Today, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post
Ok for one i dont know you.2 i am a landlord,So when you look at that i own a home.3 the whole repsect thing i do have it.I respect the world and older people.But at no way do you know me so you cant judge me for my mess up's.So i blast music on a weekend.BIG DEAL.who has not blasted there speaker in there home's.I respect your thought's .But sometime's it's always wonderful to have someone like yourself give some kind of kind word's.And i know you are trying to be kind.And i thank you for the kind word's.But if you seen how it was in front of you when the lady screamed at me lol.You would of been like WTF.it is what it is.I work 5 days a week monday to friday like everyone else does.And for a lady to tell me i cant blast my music when every i feel like it.No it's not going to happen.I will blast my music when i want how i want.Because i feel i derserve to do so .Because i work and pay bill's ust like the billon's of other's in this world.
People have a right to listen to music. People have many rights. People also have a right to NOT have to listen to other peoples music being blasted at disruptive levels. Being considerate of others is just part of being a normal, decent human being. Peoples rights do not include infringing on other peoples rights. That's why there are laws against smoking in public places, for example. People have a right to smoke, but they do not have a right to make other people smoke against their wishes. Again, it just comes to to basic human decency and respect for others. Some people have it, others don't. Again, that's why I say the easiest solution is to just call the police on disrespectful people with no respect or consideration for others. Don't you still live at home with our parents? I remember you saying before that your parents have screamed at you before for cranking your system so loud in your bedroom in their place, and you thought it was pretty funny.

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post #18362 of 18388 Old Today, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
People have a right to listen to music. People have many rights. People also have a right to NOT have to listen to other peoples music being blasted at disruptive levels. Being considerate of others is just part of being a normal, decent human being. Peoples rights do not include infringing on other peoples rights. That's why there are laws against smoking in public places, for example. People have a right to smoke, but they do not have a right to make other people smoke against their wishes. Again, it just comes to to basic human decency and respect for others. Some people have it, others don't. Again, that's why I say the easiest solution is to just call the police on disrespectful people with no respect or consideration for others. Don't you still live at home with our parents? I remember you saying before that your parents have screamed at you before for cranking your system so loud in your bedroom in their place, and you thought it was pretty funny.
i think it's funny that you had to take the time out to write a comment about something that happened almost a weekago.Just drop the subject buddy.Calling me all different kind's of thing's about not being respectable.Man you need to take it down.This is a thred not a place were we push down people for there problem's.
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post #18363 of 18388 Old Today, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post
i think it's funny that you had to take the time out to write a comment about something that happened almost a weekago.Just drop the subject buddy.Calling me all different kind's of thing's about not being respectable.Man you need to take it down.This is a thred not a place were we push down people for there problem's.
I am not pushing you down "for your problems". You posted in a public forum bragging/laughing about being so obnoxious with your stereo that your neighbors/parents scream at you for it. I simply replied to your statements; its certainly not behavior I would brag about to everyone. Should be embarrassed about it. But you are not, which reinforces your lack of respect and consideration for others. Just saying, you brought it up, don't be upset about being called out for it.
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post #18364 of 18388 Old Today, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Don't you still live at home with our parents? I remember you saying before that your parents have screamed at you before for cranking your system so loud in your bedroom in their place, and you thought it was pretty funny.
Living in his Dads house. Age? Late 20s? Probably older. Going to school part time. 65" tv and Klipsch RF7 II in bedroom while racking up student loans.
Then working part time and going to school part time while racking up student loans.
Now working hard 5 days a week and apparently a landlord somewhere.
Thats quick steady progress in a matter of a few months. Congrats to him assuming its not because some ill fate of his Dad.
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post #18365 of 18388 Old Today, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
I was going to answer "yes, like all the NSD's and 2000-series" but then Ed saved me some embarrassment by answering first...

Ok so let's get things straight. On one hand a "tune" is a resonance and has some width, and the peak is what we quote, but its effect is rather large, so I understand a 20 Hz tune is "around 20 Hz". On the other hand, around 20 Hz, a single Hz becomes a pretty large step and each hertz of lower tuning is palpable (hence the difference between 16 Hz tuning and 20 Hz tuning even though it's "only" 4 Hz).

So what are the tunings of each models in terms of peak resonance then? Is it something like 18 Hz for the PC-2000, 19 Hz for the PB-2000 and PB12-NSD, and like 21 or 22 Hz for the PC12-NSD? Is there also a tuning difference, say, between the cylinder and box versions of the Plus and Ultra?

Not that I obsess about minute differences in frequency response -- I just find theses details really interesting.
The system tuning frequency is best determined with a close-mic sweep of the driver. As the FR sweep approaches port tuning, the relative output of the driver will start dropping, and at the exact system tuning frequency driver output will be distinctly at a minimum (Helmholtz resonator damps driver motion) and then recover somewhat below tuning. I'd have to double check for the exact values, but your estimates above are pretty close. Correct - 1 Hz changes become progressively more significant (as fractional percentages of an octave) at the deepest frequencies e.g., 20 Hz - 10 Hz is an entire octave, so changing system tuning frequency from say 22 Hz to 18 Hz is a fairly significant change.
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post #18366 of 18388 Old Today, 08:34 AM
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Ed,

I emailed this directly to SVS but never got a response; Are the Plus and Ultra cylinders going to be redesigned similar to the PC-2000?

Thanks.

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post #18367 of 18388 Old Today, 08:44 AM
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Ed,

I emailed this directly to SVS but never got a response; Are the Plus and Ultra cylinders going to be redesigned similar to the PC-2000?

Thanks.
Very sorry you didn't receive a response. If you PM me with the email address you used and the date/time, I'll try to run it down. We have no immediate plans/time-frame to change the Plus/Ultra cylinder subs. Thanks.

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post #18368 of 18388 Old Today, 08:49 AM
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No problem about the email, that's all I needed to know about the cylinders as I am at least a year from being able to get one. I just bought a new receiver, have to pay it off first! But I am hoping to get either a PC-12 Plus or PC -13 Ultra.

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post #18369 of 18388 Old Today, 10:22 AM
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I'm putting together a modest bedroom system and am torn on which SVS model I want to get. I've heard a few SVS subs at CES and RMAF, but the conditions are much different making it hard to take much away from the experience. Interestingly I witnessed the launch of both the subs I'm interested at each of these events, but again other than seeing them, there isn't a ton to take away from these events, especially for subwoofers.

My bedroom is approximately 25 feet x 15 feet, with sloped ceilings approx 9 feet on the low side to 14 feet on the high side, with an open entry to the adjoining master bathroom, the overall cubic footage is fairly high. The small system I'm putting together consists of a Goldenear 3D Array soundbar and Denon AVR-X2100 receiver, and I'm interested in a smallish subwoofer to complement what will basically be a complete lack of bass below 100-120 hz from the soundbar. I'll be able to place the subwoofer within a couple feet of the TV (55" Samsung edge-lit LED LCD), which I hope will help blend the upper bass frequencies fairly well with the soundbar. I'm not interested in duals in my bedroom (I do however have duals in my theater room and definitely know the positives of doing so), but just looking to make it as decent as possible as far as locating the upper base from the subwoofer without going way overboard for what is really for non-critical usage and I don't need to tear my home down with LFE.

In any event the 2 SVS models that will fit into the space available is the PC-2000 and SB-2000. I understand the basic premise of sealed vs ported, but I haven't spent much of any time with these little black water heaters to know if it would be preferable in my situation. It seems like I'd be gaining a bit more performance going the PC route versus SB if I could live with the aesthetics. I do all of my serious/critical movie watching in my theater room, I'm just looking for something to blend into the soundbar for an integrated 3.1 experience with less critical TV/Movie viewing and a little music at nighttime. 85% TV viewing / 15% music. Would one be more preferable to the other, taking into account it's the same driver and amp in a different enclosure type? And lastly, is it okay to face the PC's rear port fairly close to a wall (with 2-3 inches)?

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post #18370 of 18388 Old Today, 11:24 AM
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I'm putting together a modest bedroom system and am torn on which SVS model I want to get. I've heard a few SVS subs at CES and RMAF, but the conditions are much different making it hard to take much away from the experience. Interestingly I witnessed the launch of both the subs I'm interested at each of these events, but again other than seeing them, there isn't a ton to take away from these events, especially for subwoofers.

My bedroom is approximately 25 feet x 15 feet, with sloped ceilings approx 9 feet on the low side to 14 feet on the high side, with an open entry to the adjoining master bathroom, the overall cubic footage is fairly high. The small system I'm putting together consists of a Goldenear 3D Array soundbar and Denon AVR-X2100 receiver, and I'm interested in a smallish subwoofer to complement what will basically be a complete lack of bass below 100-120 hz from the soundbar. I'll be able to place the subwoofer within a couple feet of the TV (55" Samsung edge-lit LED LCD), which I hope will help blend the upper bass frequencies fairly well with the soundbar. I'm not interested in duals in my bedroom (I do however have duals in my theater room and definitely know the positives of doing so), but just looking to make it as decent as possible as far as locating the upper base from the subwoofer without going way overboard for what is really for non-critical usage and I don't need to tear my home down with LFE.

In any event the 2 SVS models that will fit into the space available is the PC-2000 and SB-2000. I understand the basic premise of sealed vs ported, but I haven't spent much of any time with these little black water heaters to know if it would be preferable in my situation. It seems like I'd be gaining a bit more performance going the PC route versus SB if I could live with the aesthetics. I do all of my serious/critical movie watching in my theater room, I'm just looking for something to blend into the soundbar for an integrated 3.1 experience with less critical TV/Movie viewing and a little music at nighttime. 85% TV viewing / 15% music. Would one be more preferable to the other, taking into account it's the same driver and amp in a different enclosure type? And lastly, is it okay to face the PC's rear port fairly close to a wall (with 2-3 inches)?
Above 30 Hz or so, the output of the two models you are looking at will be very similar. So for music only, I don't think there will be a large difference in performance. Go with whichever form factor appeals to you the most. This is in regards to music only. For movies, the PC version will have 2-3x the output around port tune, meaning 16-25 Hz. If you like the PC form factor just as much, it will provide the same, if not slightly higher, output for music, with a lot more output on the low end. This would only be beneficial if you expect to listen to music with exceptionally low frequency output, such as some electronica, or wanted the occasional shake/rumble/roll from a movie.
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post #18371 of 18388 Old Today, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
The system tuning frequency is best determined with a close-mic sweep of the driver.
Ok so I guess actual tuning might be a bit different than on paper so the final tuning of the sub is determined experimentally? Do you revise the design if the experimental tuning doesn't match the design? Or is there too much interplay in the variables so that if it falls in the correct ballpark and the FR is acceptable, you don't try to shift the tuning frequency by a single hertz? In other words... perhaps this is classified information but was the lower tuning of the PC-2000 on purpose?

Absolutely will not try to infer what will be the specs of the eventual 3000-series cylinders from your answer...

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post #18372 of 18388 Old Today, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Above 30 Hz or so, the output of the two models you are looking at will be very similar. So for music only, I don't think there will be a large difference in performance. Go with whichever form factor appeals to you the most. This is in regards to music only. For movies, the PC version will have 2-3x the output around port tune, meaning 16-25 Hz. If you like the PC form factor just as much, it will provide the same, if not slightly higher, output for music, with a lot more output on the low end. This would only be beneficial if you expect to listen to music with exceptionally low frequency output, such as some electronica, or wanted the occasional shake/rumble/roll from a movie.
Thanks, that confirms my line of reasoning. I think I'll give the PC-2000 a shot.

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post #18373 of 18388 Old Today, 02:10 PM
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[QUOTE=bear123;28433674]I am not pushing you down "for your problems". You posted in a public forum bragging/laughing about being so obnoxious with your stereo that your neighbors/parents scream at you for it. I simply replied to your statements; its certainly not behavior I would brag about to everyone. Should be embarrassed about it. But you are not, which reinforces your lack of respect and consideration for others. Just saying, you brought it up, don't be upset about being called out for it.[/QUOTE

Bear, I couldn't agree more ... as with my former residence, one of the first things I did at the new house was crank up the system, open a few windows and walk around the property to see how loud things were and if my music could extend into my neighbors' houses, if their windows were open.

I am not entitled, nor is anyone IMO, to infringe upon someone else's peace and quiet.

It's similar to when, years ago, I was riding a Harley and many of my fellow bikers got a kick out of their excessively loud bikes ... "loud pipes save lives" was their B.S. mantra.

As Ed Mullen says in his signature, "What we do in life, echoes in eternity."

Anyway, well said Bear :-)

P.S. My PC13ultra rocks this place ... nice deep bass tones throughout the (one floor only) entire house. I've had good results placing a single sub approx. 40 percent of the way along a wall for a fairly even response.
Looking forward to my son's thanksgiving break / visit when he'll bring with him the REW gear ... with help from the two PEQ settings on the ultra, things will be even better.
The main listening area is around 5,500 cu.ft. ... no problem for the PC13ultra :-)

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post #18374 of 18388 Old Today, 02:11 PM
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Ok so I guess actual tuning might be a bit different than on paper so the final tuning of the sub is determined experimentally? Do you revise the design if the experimental tuning doesn't match the design? Or is there too much interplay in the variables so that if it falls in the correct ballpark and the FR is acceptable, you don't try to shift the tuning frequency by a single hertz? In other words... perhaps this is classified information but was the lower tuning of the PC-2000 on purpose?
The overall system design is never empirically driven by a singular focus on any variable (like the system tuning frequency). The sound quality objectives and measured performance goals drive the overall design. The slight difference in system tuning frequency between the PB-2000/PC-2000 wasn't a specific design objective - so it's more of academic interest than anything else. The two subs are essentially sonic clones only differing in form factor. The PC form factor offers PB performance in a much smaller footprint which can fit into tight spaces the PB can't - that's what makes the PC so popular with our customers who have floor space challenges.

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post #18375 of 18388 Old Today, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Above 30 Hz or so, the output of the two models you are looking at will be very similar. So for music only, I don't think there will be a large difference in performance. Go with whichever form factor appeals to you the most. This is in regards to music only. For movies, the PC version will have 2-3x the output around port tune, meaning 16-25 Hz. If you like the PC form factor just as much, it will provide the same, if not slightly higher, output for music, with a lot more output on the low end. This would only be beneficial if you expect to listen to music with exceptionally low frequency output, such as some electronica, or wanted the occasional shake/rumble/roll from a movie.
Sorry I spaced one of my questions, is it okay to have the port near a wall on a PC-2000? Does anybody know? I know with rear ported speakers you need to give them a decent amount of room, although with speakers you're dealing with voices and other spectrum that you can fairly easily tell if it doesn't sound right, or they aren't imaging properly, etc. I'm not sure if that would be the case with bass/LFE. I was also thinking I could turn it 45 degrees which would give the port at least 5-6" of breathing room.

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post #18376 of 18388 Old Today, 04:21 PM
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Remember reading a few pages back that it shouldn't be an issue.
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post #18377 of 18388 Old Today, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
that's what makes the PC so popular with our customers who have floor space challenges.
Ha! That describes me well enough: floor space challenged

I know this is a cliché in this thread but it's worth repeating: it's really surprising how the black water heater form factor simply disappears. Most visitors don't even notice my dual Pluses and they're right there on the front stage flanking the TV.
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I am not pushing you down "for your problems". You posted in a public forum bragging/laughing about being so obnoxious with your stereo that your neighbors/parents scream at you for it. I simply replied to your statements; its certainly not behavior I would brag about to everyone. Should be embarrassed about it. But you are not, which reinforces your lack of respect and consideration for others. Just saying, you brought it up, don't be upset about being called out for it.
I am not mad ,In fact You can talk you have every right.But at the end of the day my life is not your life.What i do is my life.Same goes for you what you do in your life is your life.From what i see you are a person who like's to take people words for what they say on this forum and you like to make people look lower then you.I am never embarrassed .I feel more sad for you really.How you come here on this fourm and bring up stuff i said a few comment's back.It just really sad bro.Bragging that i have a home theater setup.I am not braggin i am just happy about my thing's.Thing's i bought with my own money.Because i put in the time and hard work to get what i want.I can go on this forum and speak my mind.And that goes for you too.You cna do the same if you feel like it.And i would never judge you for what you do because i dont know you.
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[quote=TomC1315;28448074]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I am not pushing you down "for your problems". You posted in a public forum bragging/laughing about being so obnoxious with your stereo that your neighbors/parents scream at you for it. I simply replied to your statements; its certainly not behavior I would brag about to everyone. Should be embarrassed about it. But you are not, which reinforces your lack of respect and consideration for others. Just saying, you brought it up, don't be upset about being called out for it.[/QUOTE

Bear, I couldn't agree more ... as with my former residence, one of the first things I did at the new house was crank up the system, open a few windows and walk around the property to see how loud things were and if my music could extend into my neighbors' houses, if their windows were open.

I am not entitled, nor is anyone IMO, to infringe upon someone else's peace and quiet.

It's similar to when, years ago, I was riding a Harley and many of my fellow bikers got a kick out of their excessively loud bikes ... "loud pipes save lives" was their B.S. mantra.

As Ed Mullen says in his signature, "What we do in life, echoes in eternity."

Anyway, well said Bear :-)

P.S. My PC13ultra rocks this place ... nice deep bass tones throughout the (one floor only) entire house. I've had good results placing a single sub approx. 40 percent of the way along a wall for a fairly even response.
Looking forward to my son's thanksgiving break / visit when he'll bring with him the REW gear ... with help from the two PEQ settings on the ultra, things will be even better.
The main listening area is around 5,500 cu.ft. ... no problem for the PC13ultra :-)

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[quote=retro124;28455113]Nice setup retro.I like the color's you got going in the liveing room.What speaker's are the tower's.How old are they.They look nice.But the svs cylider sub makes the tower's look really small.Still you have wonderful taste my friend
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P.S. My PC13ultra rocks this place ... nice deep bass tones throughout the (one floor only) entire house. I've had good results placing a single sub approx. 40 percent of the way along a wall for a fairly even response.
Looking forward to my son's thanksgiving break / visit when he'll bring with him the REW gear ... with help from the two PEQ settings on the ultra, things will be even better.
The main listening area is around 5,500 cu.ft. ... no problem for the PC13ultra :-)

Attachment 325122

Attachment 325130[/QUOTE]

I think you had PC12-Plus so when did you swap it for Ultra what was reason to do so?

Denon X4000
Klipsch RF-82II's , RC-62II , RS-52II's , RB-81II's
SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
Emotiva XPA-3
Sony KDF-60XS955
Apple Mac mini, Sony PS3
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[quote=joseph10704;28455369]
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post

Nice setup retro.I like the color's you got going in the liveing room.What speaker's are the tower's.How old are they.They look nice.But the svs cylider sub makes the tower's look really small.Still you have wonderful taste my friend
That is not mine Joseph10704 but you right pictures looks great it is TomC1315 room.

Denon X4000
Klipsch RF-82II's , RC-62II , RS-52II's , RB-81II's
SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
Emotiva XPA-3
Sony KDF-60XS955
Apple Mac mini, Sony PS3

Last edited by retro124; Today at 06:49 PM.
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[quote=retro124;28455569]
Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post

That is not mine Joseph10704 but tou right puctures looks great it is TomC1315 room.
You should post a few pics of your setup bro.I would love to see it.And i am sure the rest of the world would too.
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post #18384 of 18388 Old Today, 09:02 PM
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[quote=joseph10704;28456193]
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post

You should post a few pics of your setup bro.I would love to see it.And i am sure the rest of the world would too.
I will and I did it before.

Denon X4000
Klipsch RF-82II's , RC-62II , RS-52II's , RB-81II's
SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
Emotiva XPA-3
Sony KDF-60XS955
Apple Mac mini, Sony PS3
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000
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