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post #18541 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by missyman View Post
Does everyone turn their subwoofer trim up after running ypao? I have dual pb2000s and have the gain on the sub at 2oclock and it set my trim at -5.5
Subwoofer Trim is something different than subwoofer volume. Are you sure you mean subwoofer trim? Which model AVR do you have?
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post #18542 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 03:11 PM
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Your right bond. It's subwoofer level. My model reciever is a yamaha rx-v673
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post #18543 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by missyman View Post
Your right bond. It's subwoofer level. My model reciever is a yamaha rx-v673
I thought that was what I remembered you had. Most people do raise the subwoofer volume. If it sounds ok you don't have to. If you want to raise it from -5.5 feel free to do so but I wouldn't recommend going above 0.
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post #18544 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
It's a little more complicated than that.
If its a 2.0 signal with no DSP and the mains are large with no extra bass the sub will not work.
If its a 2.0 signal with no DSP and the mains are small with no extra bass the sub will work.
If its a 2.0 signal with no DSP and the mains are set to large with extra bass on the sub will work.

I'm sure you're 3040 has an Extra Bass option. Try looking under Configuration.
I agree with that. This configuration applies to anything where the bass management would create the LFE .1 source with content that doesn't natively have .1. Like you said originally it depends on the source and I was being too vague.

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post #18545 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by garywade1978 View Post
First things first, running YAPO, giant waste of time. It set the sub at +10db. This is with the subwoofer volume knob set at the 12 o'clock poistion. I set everything up manually. Set the sub at 0db put the subwoofer volume to 3 o'clock poistion. My YAPO was setting up the 7 other speakers to large, I changed them all to small. Now it's night and day. My ear are bleeding this thing hit soooo hard and so loud. I'm sorry I ever doubted this sub. By far and away my best purchase this month. Thanks to everyone for the great advice and input.
you're welcome. imagine the sound of the biggest pb13 ultra now that u hear the full potential of the 2000 then u understand that i'm literaly blown away here

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post #18546 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by missyman View Post
Does everyone turn their subwoofer trim up after running ypao? I have dual pb2000s and have the gain on the sub at 2oclock and it set my trim at -5.5
I turned mine up 6 db's after audyssey. Running it about 81 db's with rest of speakers at 75 db's.

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post #18547 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
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the older yamaha avr has an option called LFE+Front that you need to set for the subwoofer to work on stereo signals. in the newer a3040 it's called extra bass and you can find this in the options of the phone app or somewhere in the setup.
the thing is that most people don't understand the concept of small or large speakers.
small > the speaker frequency is cut-off below the setpoint of crossover in hz. some have one setting for bass crossover and some have every speaker separate crossover.
large > the speaker does the full frequency range. independant of set crossover hz setting.
the small setting is preferably not used as it will mix the speakers bass into the sub-channel and so enables more distortion as it get not only bass from the sub-channel but also from the other speakers. it was ment to be used for sattelite speakers and other small speakers with a freqrange of about 100hz and above. the good thing about it is that you need less watts for the speakers as the sub takes over the lower notes and ur speakers can play louder with less distortion.
the large setting will play every bass sound to it's own speaker or sub. it will feed the whole frequency range to each speaker. this is for speakers that can do bass below about 100hz.
the downside to this is that you will need a lot more watts to power the speakers. the good thing is that you get the full sound that was intended by the movie makers.
however on large setting the subwoofer won't make sound as there is no .1 in stereo sound. some dsp programs like dolby IIx etc will use the subwoofer for the lower bass though. direct and straight setting won't use sub for bass unless u set small.
the reason why YPAO sets the speakers to large is that it is the best option for movies and that your speakers are able to output frequencies below the 100 hz.
now it makes little sense to set a speaker to small and the crossover to the point the lowest freq of the speaker as it will use double filter for the falloff point. however it will be directional above 80hz and this way u limit the LFE channel. the LFE channel in multi-channel tracks can go as high as 120hz. limiting this freq will cause less of the intended bass go to the LFE channel then maybe was ment in the movie. so yeah if u want the full movie soundtrack experience then you should put all speakers on large. the downside is that you have to use dsp program to be able to use the sub for stereo music. for this reason the a3040 for example has pattern 1 and 2 so u can fast switch between movie and music mode. the best setting for trim on the sub is 0dB after you run roomcorrect and added the extra dB's you prefer. have it end up in the end at 0dB trim.

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post #18548 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missyman View Post
Does everyone turn their subwoofer trim up after running ypao? I have dual pb2000s and have the gain on the sub at 2oclock and it set my trim at -5.5
no i have not run YPAO yet and set speaker distance and trim manual. i changed the sub level (after it was made clear to me that the subwoofer volumeknob in fact trims the line-input and not the gain on my svs) to 0dB on the sub and to -6dB at trim in avr. i like loud bass

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post #18549 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missyman View Post
Does everyone turn their subwoofer trim up after running ypao? I have dual pb2000s and have the gain on the sub at 2oclock and it set my trim at -5.5
I have Denon AVR so after all Odyssey calibration completed I add on each sub +3db so total 6db and I add it on AVR.

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post #18550 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
the older yamaha avr has an option called LFE+Front that you need to set for the subwoofer to work on stereo signals. in the newer a3040 it's called extra bass and you can find this in the options of the phone app or somewhere in the setup.
the thing is that most people don't understand the concept of small or large speakers.
small > the speaker frequency is cut-off below the setpoint of crossover in hz. some have one setting for bass crossover and some have every speaker separate crossover.
large > the speaker does the full frequency range. independant of set crossover hz setting.
the small setting is preferably not used as it will mix the speakers bass into the sub-channel and so enables more distortion as it get not only bass from the sub-channel but also from the other speakers. it was ment to be used for sattelite speakers and other small speakers with a freqrange of about 100hz and above. the good thing about it is that you need less watts for the speakers as the sub takes over the lower notes and ur speakers can play louder with less distortion.
the large setting will play every bass sound to it's own speaker or sub. it will feed the whole frequency range to each speaker. this is for speakers that can do bass below about 100hz.
the downside to this is that you will need a lot more watts to power the speakers. the good thing is that you get the full sound that was intended by the movie makers.
however on large setting the subwoofer won't make sound as there is no .1 in stereo sound. some dsp programs like dolby IIx etc will use the subwoofer for the lower bass though. direct and straight setting won't use sub for bass unless u set small.
the reason why YPAO sets the speakers to large is that it is the best option for movies and that your speakers are able to output frequencies below the 100 hz.
now it makes little sense to set a speaker to small and the crossover to the point the lowest freq of the speaker as it will use double filter for the falloff point. however it will be directional above 80hz and this way u limit the LFE channel. the LFE channel in multi-channel tracks can go as high as 120hz. limiting this freq will cause less of the intended bass go to the LFE channel then maybe was ment in the movie. so yeah if u want the full movie soundtrack experience then you should put all speakers on large. the downside is that you have to use dsp program to be able to use the sub for stereo music. for this reason the a3040 for example has pattern 1 and 2 so u can fast switch between movie and music mode. the best setting for trim on the sub is 0dB after you run roomcorrect and added the extra dB's you prefer. have it end up in the end at 0dB trim.
Sorry buddy but almost all of what you wrote here is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
the older yamaha avr has an option called LFE+Front that you need to set for the subwoofer to work on stereo signals
This is called "double bass" because the same signal is sent to the subwoofer and speaker. It'd generally not preferred because it literally is a doubling of the bass signal between two sources.

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the small setting is preferably not used as it will mix the speakers bass into the sub-channel and so enables more distortion as it get not only bass from the sub-channel but also from the other speakers
There is no reason that should cause distortion. In fact, most people here use the small setting for their speakers.

Quote:
it was ment to be used for sattelite speakers and other small speakers with a freqrange of about 100hz and above.
It CAN be used for that purpose but even large tower speakers often benefit from being set to small.

Quote:
the good thing about it is that you need less watts for the speakers as the sub takes over the lower notes and ur speakers can play louder with less distortion.
Has nothing to do with volume...distortion is a possibility though if you are sending a signal to your speaker that it doesn't play accurately/well.

Quote:
the large setting will play every bass sound to it's own speaker or sub. it will feed the whole frequency range to each speaker. this is for speakers that can do bass below about 100hz.
Large sends a full range signal to each speaker and the subwoofer only gets the .1 signal for movies. Stereo sources will not use the subwoofer unless the previously mentioned double bass setting is used. This is a bad idea because very few speakers are capable of handling a full range signal well (or at least as well as a subwoofer can handle the bass portion)

Quote:
the good thing is that you get the full sound that was intended by the movie makers.
You get the full range sound even if the speakers are set to small. In fact, you probably get FULLER range sound with the speakers set to small because (again without double bass) any frequency your speaker can't handle is just "lost".

Quote:
however on large setting the subwoofer won't make sound as there is no .1 in stereo sound.
Correct! Which is why most people don't use the large setting.

Quote:
the reason why YPAO sets the speakers to large is that it is the best option for movies and that your speakers are able to output frequencies below the 100 hz.
While I can't say WHY they decide to set it to large besides some random choice based upon bass extension of the speakers, it is not necessarily the best option for movies. In fact most people that choose to use a large setting are looking to do so for music to preserve the stereo signal. In these cases they typically have towers with built in subwoofers and music is their primary purpose.

Quote:
now it makes little sense to set a speaker to small and the crossover to the point the lowest freq of the speaker as it will use double filter for the falloff point
This is a good point that setting the crossover frequency to the -3dB point of a speaker can be a bad thing. At that point you have a natural roll off that can cause summation issues. Imagine if you used a large setting instead! The signal below this point would just be lost! Better to use a small setting and set the crossover point ABOVE the -3dB point. Sometimes SIGNIFICANTLY above.

Last edited by Sdiver2489; Yesterday at 06:45 PM.
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post #18551 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post
Sorry buddy but almost all of what you wrote here is wrong.
offcourse... and so are the avr manifacturers and YPAO and audyssey makers...

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post #18552 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
offcourse... and so are the avr manifacturers and YPAO and audyssey makers...
Nope...Audyssey is right...you are wrong.

For reference...please see...The Audyssey website:

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...he-same-thing-

Oh and as this link points out its your receiver making the decision to set them to large...not Audyssey.
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post #18553 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 06:51 PM
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offcourse... and so are the avr manifacturers and YPAO and audyssey makers...
Really, it is wrong.

Setting the speakers to "small" even large towers like your RF82 or even RF7s is usually the correct way to set them when your AVR is doing the bass management.

Setting your towers to small and a crossover of 80hz is the typical starting point. Having bass below 80hz sent to the sub does NOT increase distortion. That's ridiculous. That's the sub's job after all.

There are forum members that have RF7s and set them to small and use crossovers around 40 or 60hz. The small setting doesn't mean you have small speakers.

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post #18554 of 18558 Old Yesterday, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by garywade1978 View Post
First things first, running YAPO, giant waste of time. It set the sub at +10db. This is with the subwoofer volume knob set at the 12 o'clock poistion. I set everything up manually. Set the sub at 0db put the subwoofer volume to 3 o'clock poistion. My YAPO was setting up the 7 other speakers to large, I changed them all to small. Now it's night and day. My ear are bleeding this thing hit soooo hard and so loud. I'm sorry I ever doubted this sub. By far and away my best purchase this month. Thanks to everyone for the great advice and input.
Awesome! Now enjoy watching all those movies in your collection all over again. Enjoy!
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post #18555 of 18558 Old Today, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
ROFL
my neighbour came asking allready if there was a thunderstorm while i was playing dire straits-brothers in arms hehehe she found it odd that there was no rain outside
Reminders of bygone days ... My first CD player was a Sony CDP 302 and the first CD was "Brothers in Arms". I had to give it a listen after reading your post and it was nice indeed

Couldn't listen at your levels, more relaxed in my old age, neither I nor my setup have the power to produce "thunder storms"

Regards, Ken (Retired)

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post #18556 of 18558 Old Today, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
It's a little more complicated than that.
If its a 2.0 signal with no DSP and the mains are large with no extra bass the sub will not work.
If its a 2.0 signal with no DSP and the mains are small with no extra bass the sub will work.
If its a 2.0 signal with no DSP and the mains are set to large with extra bass on the sub will work.

I'm sure you're 3040 has an Extra Bass option. Try looking under Configuration.


There's an Extra bass function but it enhances the bass regardless of the presence or absence of a subwoofer so I don't know if this is a main+LFE function.
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post #18557 of 18558 Old Today, 03:56 AM
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There's an Extra bass function but it enhances the bass regardless of the presence or absence of a subwoofer so I don't know if this is a main+LFE function.
It is. Read your Owners manual.
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post #18558 of 18558 Old Today, 05:27 AM
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My initial impressions of the Ultra bookshelf are very good. It is definitely a speaker that you don't have to play at high volumes to make it sound full. Bass is there even at my startup volume of -40. The tweeters are very nice, which isn't something everyone gets right when so concerned with midrange and lows. I have not been using my SB12-NSD at all this week for music listening. I took the Ultras for a quick burst to 0dB on the volume dial and there wasn't even a problem.

I usually prefer towers, so I don't have proper stands and can't move them as far apart as I'd like right now, but they are without a doubt one of the finalists. I will be only auditioning one more speaker in my home, the Golden Ear Triton 7s. After a long audition at the shop, I feel they are the "gold standard" for me to measure any other speaker.

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