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post #19771 of 19798 Old Yesterday, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PWH1 View Post
Thanks Retro... While I liked the 2000/1000 pairing, I always understood I was leaving a bit on the table with 2000 as I set it up to play well with the 1000 and in doing so had to throttle it back some. Now I can be assured that I have a match that will allow me to play both at their capacity and without leaving anything behind.
Let us know how do you like your new dual set up. Oh yes it will be a nice upgrade and I'm sure you will be happy with it.
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post #19772 of 19798 Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM
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Dammit everyone's getting new subs lately! With taxes coming back in 2-3 weeks I'm really torn. I would like another SB13 or an external amp. I realize the rewards would be more going for another sub but my RF7II's and RC64II would really open up if they had a little more go go juice. Btw I haven't told my wife any of this and that is another hoop I have to jump through when the time comes lol. HELP!!
Buy another sub and get measuring equipment i.e. REW and a mic. It will make an audible difference, whereas going from a high quality receiver such as the one you have to an "audiophile" amp will make no audible difference, other than that which is imagined from having spent so much on an "audiophile" amp.
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post #19773 of 19798 Old Today, 03:24 AM
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An amplifier does make a big difference, but then my speakers are 4ohm. Kef LS50 owner on av said a XPA-5 helped lots

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #19774 of 19798 Old Today, 05:32 AM
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I got my tracking number for the sub it is scheduled to arrive in a week...i have a question...when i want to gain match both subs does that mean i put both gains on sb13ultras at the same settings (lets say -23 on both) or one of the sub lower (left -23 and right -21) so that i will have the same AVR trim after audyssey (around -8)?

Marantz sr7008, monitor audio bx6,bx center,bx fx,bx1,sub SVS sb13ultra, panasonic 60asw654
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post #19775 of 19798 Old Today, 05:36 AM
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You'll want to calibrate each sub volume individually ie both to 73dB, then with both on adjust the total to 75dB

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #19776 of 19798 Old Today, 06:44 AM
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Since Audyssey seems to be doing weird things like setting my satellite speakers center crossover at 150Hz and fronts to 100Hz, is there another way to calibrate speakers, subs? I've heard a few people mention REW when referring to subs and amps.
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post #19777 of 19798 Old Today, 06:50 AM
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That mcintosh will go for over 3k almost guaranteed
msrp 3500.00 circa 92-97
My mistake I was looking on my phone and I thought it was their amp with the led displays that retails for 6500 new
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post #19778 of 19798 Old Today, 07:13 AM
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Since Audyssey seems to be doing weird things like setting my satellite speakers center crossover at 150Hz and fronts to 100Hz, is there another way to calibrate speakers, subs? I've heard a few people mention REW when referring to subs and amps.
You can use REW for an accurate display of what your system looks like. Right now, I am using just an SPL meter to calibrate my speakers.

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post #19779 of 19798 Unread Today, 08:25 AM
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Just received my SVS PB-2000 yesterday, hooked it up, set it up, watched Godzilla and WOW!! Yes, for my first subwoofer, I have chosen wisely and for the moment I am happy with the bass in my room.

I don't care how huge it is and that it takes up a lot of room or that it has a lighthouse of a blue LED in front of the unit, when I'm watching movies, I can't see it at all (I had to mask the LED with some tape) and all I can hear and mostly feel is all the goodness it puts out and my couch and whole body vibrating!

Receiver: Kenwood KRF-X9070D Front: Jamo S 718 Rear: Jamo Studio 180 SUB: SVS PB-2000 TV: SONY Bravia KDL55HX850 Blu Ray: SONY BDP S590; XBox ONE
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post #19780 of 19798 Unread Today, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mihai7645 View Post
Just received my SVS PB-2000 yesterday, hooked it up, set it up, watched Godzilla and WOW!! Yes, for my first subwoofer, I have chosen wisely and for the moment I am happy with the bass in my room.

I don't care how huge it is and that it takes up a lot of room or that it has a lighthouse of a blue LED in front of the unit, when I'm watching movies, I can't see it at all (I had to mask the LED with some tape) and all I can hear and mostly feel is all the goodness it puts out and my couch and whole body vibrating!
Thats good that you like the pb-2000 Dont worry about the form factor.Size to me does not matter.I am going to buy soon my pb13 ultra.And there's a good chance it going to be in my small room for a little while idk yet.but my room is 9x11 so yeah i myself am not worryied about the size of pb13 ultra yeah it's a beast size sub but hey it's worth it.The power that the pb13 ultra bring's is outstanding.
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post #19781 of 19798 Unread Today, 09:12 AM
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You tell me to get different speakers and all you have is some tiny bookshelf Kefs?
I don't have LS50. But if you knew about those speakers, you'll know they're hard to drive and low impedence. 3.2ohm, and 85dB

But the speakers I DO have are quite efficient around 90dB but low impedence, 4 ohm, around 3.2 possibly low as 2.8. Usually people pair the Celestions with Bryston and other big amps.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #19782 of 19798 Unread Today, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
You can use REW for an accurate display of what your system looks like. Right now, I am using just an SPL meter to calibrate my speakers.
Is there a good tutorial on how to do this? Are you using Radio Shack or Galaxy SPL?
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post #19783 of 19798 Unread Today, 10:34 AM
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I don't have LS50. But if you knew about those speakers, you'll know they're hard to drive and low impedence. 3.2ohm, and 85dB

But the speakers I DO have are quite efficient around 90dB but low impedence, 4 ohm, around 3.2 possibly low as 2.8. Usually people pair the Celestions with Bryston and other big amps.
I know this is an SVS subwoofer thread, but being that I have the same RF-7 II front stage as CC I thought I'd chime in. While the high frequency horn section in the RF-7 II's is incredibly efficient, the dual 10's are much more demanding. Low frequencies will spike down to around 3.2 ohms as well. Getting solid bass out of these speakers requires solid power. I'm currently providing mine in stereo around 120-125W per speaker with a Pioneer Elite class D receiver, replacing a much less capable receiver. The difference in that power difference was night and day in the bass response... and while I have yet to personally get an external amp, I've heard from many posters that the jump from similar power I'm at now to quality 300W+ external amplification is also night and day. Based on my experience, I have no reason to doubt that.

I've heard KEF LS50's at more than one audio show, IMO they are more musical than RF-7 II's but don't hold a candle to the theater experience RF-7 II's provide. It also absolutely requires a subwoofer, where as the RF-7 II's are capable of playing a stereo source quite well by themselves. It's a much difference experience for vastly different market segments, but I don't understand ragging on RF-7 II's like they are $50 generic China speakers when you're (edit, sorry didn't mean you in particular as you don't own them) dealing with a good but still quite limited speaker. In absolute context, the RF-7 II's are much more capable than the LS50's. Now if I were to be putting together a somewhat near field 2.1 channel stereo music-only system, yeah I'd get the KEF's.
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post #19784 of 19798 Unread Today, 11:48 AM
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I know this is an SVS subwoofer thread, but being that I have the same RF-7 II front stage as CC I thought I'd chime in. While the high frequency horn section in the RF-7 II's is incredibly efficient, the dual 10's are much more demanding. Low frequencies will spike down to around 3.2 ohms as well. Getting solid bass out of these speakers requires solid power. I'm currently providing mine in stereo around 120-125W per speaker with a Pioneer Elite class D receiver, replacing a much less capable receiver. The difference in that power difference was night and day in the bass response... and while I have yet to personally get an external amp, I've heard from many posters that the jump from similar power I'm at now to quality 300W+ external amplification is also night and day. Based on my experience, I have no reason to doubt that.

I've heard KEF LS50's at more than one audio show, IMO they are more musical than RF-7 II's but don't hold a candle to the theater experience RF-7 II's provide. It also absolutely requires a subwoofer, where as the RF-7 II's are capable of playing a stereo source quite well by themselves. It's a much difference experience for vastly different market segments, but I don't understand ragging on RF-7 II's like they are $50 generic China speakers when you're (edit, sorry didn't mean you in particular as you don't own them) dealing with a good but still quite limited speaker. In absolute context, the RF-7 II's are much more capable than the LS50's. Now if I were to be putting together a somewhat near field 2.1 channel stereo music-only system, yeah I'd get the KEF's.
You would only need a lot of power with the RF7's if you listen to very loud SPL or have a extremely large room and you are sitting a good ways away. Most of the time my RF7-II's are only using a couple watts according to the power scale meter on my McIntosh. I'm running just 100 watts x 6 out of my amp and its plenty of power. Now if I wanted to listen at like 120 dB, then I would need more power. Which I can bridge my amp to run 320 watts x 3. But I am not into concert level volumes anymore.
Another thing you have to consider is most if not all AVR's advertised RMS power rating is only at 1 channel. Even though they may say 140 watts x 7, they cant deliver 140 watts to all channels at the same time. But most of your separate amps can. So that could possible be the reason of the night and day difference in going to a separate amp.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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post #19785 of 19798 Unread Today, 12:04 PM
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Don't ignore these babies either. 3 mono blocks would make for one heck of a front stage.
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That's a lot of distortion for a mono amp..it's as high as a average mass production receiver...if your gonna go mono you should be getting at least .0005 or lower

0.05% distortion at full power is high for a power amp ??? Have you looked at the distortion numbers of your speakers, let alone your subs? Your sub is declared good if it keeps distortion under 10%, 20x more than the suggested outlaw mono amps. Your mains should be 2%-5% depending on test frequency. Lower distortion for the tweeters and higher for the midrange.


The point I'm trying to make is that your speakers and subs are the greatest source of distortion in your audio chain (assuming you're not clipping your amplifiers of course). Even when using tube amplifiers with their higher distortion profile(compared to solid state amps), their distortion is not nearly as great as that one from your speakers, especially the subwoofer.


If you like your speakers with their higher distortion levels, especially when playing loudly or bombastic movie material, what you liked has a lot to do with their distortion, amongst other speaker characteristics.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #19786 of 19798 Unread Today, 12:47 PM
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You can use REW for an accurate display of what your system looks like. Right now, I am using just an SPL meter to calibrate my speakers.
Is there a good tutorial on how to do this? Are you using Radio Shack or Galaxy SPL?
I'm sure there is a thread on AVS that deals with how to take accurate measurements. I use a Radio Shack SPL meter. Basic rule of thumb is Slow and C weighted. Hold it straight in front of you at ear level. Adjust speaker trim for 75dB.
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post #19787 of 19798 Unread Today, 12:55 PM
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I know this is an SVS subwoofer thread, but being that I have the same RF-7 II front stage as CC I thought I'd chime in. While the high frequency horn section in the RF-7 II's is incredibly efficient, the dual 10's are much more demanding. Low frequencies will spike down to around 3.2 ohms as well. Getting solid bass out of these speakers requires solid power. I'm currently providing mine in stereo around 120-125W per speaker with a Pioneer Elite class D receiver, replacing a much less capable receiver. The difference in that power difference was night and day in the bass response... and while I have yet to personally get an external amp, I've heard from many posters that the jump from similar power I'm at now to quality 300W+ external amplification is also night and day. Based on my experience, I have no reason to doubt that.

I've heard KEF LS50's at more than one audio show, IMO they are more musical than RF-7 II's but don't hold a candle to the theater experience RF-7 II's provide. It also absolutely requires a subwoofer, where as the RF-7 II's are capable of playing a stereo source quite well by themselves. It's a much difference experience for vastly different market segments, but I don't understand ragging on RF-7 II's like they are $50 generic China speakers when you're (edit, sorry didn't mean you in particular as you don't own them) dealing with a good but still quite limited speaker. In absolute context, the RF-7 II's are much more capable than the LS50's. Now if I were to be putting together a somewhat near field 2.1 channel stereo music-only system, yeah I'd get the KEF's.
I've been going back and forth about getting an external amp but I hear and read both sides. Some say they have tried it with their 7's and didn't hear a difference and then some have said it makes a difference. My 4520 in two channel benches 175 w/ch and at reference levels there is no distortion at least that I can hear. It benches 125 w/ch with five speakers. My room is only 1900 cu ft so technically I probably don't need an amp but I still want to try one out and see for myself but probably will hold out until after I get another Ultra. I think my system would gain much more going dually subs then an external amp. If my room was bigger and I was running seven channels then an amp would be more justified I believe.

Denon 4520
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post #19788 of 19798 Unread Today, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Done Deal DR View Post
I know this is an SVS subwoofer thread, but being that I have the same RF-7 II front stage as CC I thought I'd chime in. While the high frequency horn section in the RF-7 II's is incredibly efficient, the dual 10's are much more demanding. Low frequencies will spike down to around 3.2 ohms as well. Getting solid bass out of these speakers requires solid power. I'm currently providing mine in stereo around 120-125W per speaker with a Pioneer Elite class D receiver, replacing a much less capable receiver. The difference in that power difference was night and day in the bass response... and while I have yet to personally get an external amp, I've heard from many posters that the jump from similar power I'm at now to quality 300W+ external amplification is also night and day. Based on my experience, I have no reason to doubt that.

I've heard KEF LS50's at more than one audio show, IMO they are more musical than RF-7 II's but don't hold a candle to the theater experience RF-7 II's provide. It also absolutely requires a subwoofer, where as the RF-7 II's are capable of playing a stereo source quite well by themselves. It's a much difference experience for vastly different market segments, but I don't understand ragging on RF-7 II's like they are $50 generic China speakers when you're (edit, sorry didn't mean you in particular as you don't own them) dealing with a good but still quite limited speaker. In absolute context, the RF-7 II's are much more capable than the LS50's. Now if I were to be putting together a somewhat near field 2.1 channel stereo music-only system, yeah I'd get the KEF's.
You would only need a lot of power with the RF7's if you listen to very loud SPL or have a extremely large room and you are sitting a good ways away. Most of the time my RF7-II's are only using a couple watts according to the power scale meter on my McIntosh. I'm running just 100 watts x 6 out of my amp and its plenty of power. Now if I wanted to listen at like 120 dB, then I would need more power. Which I can bridge my amp to run 320 watts x 3. But I am not into concert level volumes anymore.
Another thing you have to consider is most if not all AVR's advertised RMS power rating is only at 1 channel. Even though they may say 140 watts x 7, they cant deliver 140 watts to all channels at the same time. But most of your separate amps can. So that could possible be the reason of the night and day difference in going to a separate amp.
Of course, the power ratings I gave however are tested measurements from a magazine review on my receiver, Sound and Vision. 2 channels at 8ohms. The Pioneer class D's hold up very well in actual measurements, I think mine is said to be 125wx7 by Pioneer, and I recall it being around 105wx5 and 95wx7 in actual tested measurements.

It's easily able to hit reference levels, which obviously can't be tolerated in my room. -10 is plenty loud for most all movies. While I know even a few watts will power them to very loud levels, I obviously know that my previous receiver was capable of outputting far more than 3 watts and yet... Still a huge increase in bass performance. Perhaps more than anything it's the ohm drop, and while my current AVR is rated for 4ohms, I think that perhaps that's an area for improvement in a quality external amp.
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post #19789 of 19798 Unread Today, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Done Deal DR View Post
I know this is an SVS subwoofer thread, but being that I have the same RF-7 II front stage as CC I thought I'd chime in. While the high frequency horn section in the RF-7 II's is incredibly efficient, the dual 10's are much more demanding. Low frequencies will spike down to around 3.2 ohms as well. Getting solid bass out of these speakers requires solid power. I'm currently providing mine in stereo around 120-125W per speaker with a Pioneer Elite class D receiver, replacing a much less capable receiver. The difference in that power difference was night and day in the bass response... and while I have yet to personally get an external amp, I've heard from many posters that the jump from similar power I'm at now to quality 300W+ external amplification is also night and day. Based on my experience, I have no reason to doubt that.

I've heard KEF LS50's at more than one audio show, IMO they are more musical than RF-7 II's but don't hold a candle to the theater experience RF-7 II's provide. It also absolutely requires a subwoofer, where as the RF-7 II's are capable of playing a stereo source quite well by themselves. It's a much difference experience for vastly different market segments, but I don't understand ragging on RF-7 II's like they are $50 generic China speakers when you're (edit, sorry didn't mean you in particular as you don't own them) dealing with a good but still quite limited speaker. In absolute context, the RF-7 II's are much more capable than the LS50's. Now if I were to be putting together a somewhat near field 2.1 channel stereo music-only system, yeah I'd get the KEF's.
I've been going back and forth about getting an external amp but I hear and read both sides. Some say they have tried it with their 7's and didn't hear a difference and then some have said it makes a difference. My 4520 in two channel benches 175 w/ch and at reference levels there is no distortion at least that I can hear. It benches 125 w/ch with five speakers. My room is only 1900 cu ft so technically I probably don't need an amp but I still want to try one out and see for myself but probably will hold out until after I get another Ultra. I think my system would gain much more going dually subs then an external amp. If my room was bigger and I was running seven channels then an amp would be more justified I believe.
I'm thinking about trying a Crown XLS 2000 or 2500 just to see what happens. The investment is very small and if there is no benefit they sell very easy and hold their value well.

The downside is they are ugly as sin and the fan may be audible depending on your set up.
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post #19790 of 19798 Unread Today, 01:04 PM
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I'm thinking about trying a Crown XLS 2000 or 2500 just to see what happens. The investment is very small and if there is no benefit they sell very easy and hold their value well.

The downside is they are ugly as sin and the fan may be audible depending on your set up.
If you end up getting that Crown please report back and let us know.

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post #19791 of 19798 Unread Today, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Don't ignore these babies either. 3 mono blocks would make for one heck of a front stage.
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
Still tempting me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSatala777 View Post
That's a lot of distortion for a mono amp..it's as high as a average mass production receiver...if your gonna go mono you should be getting at least .0005 or lower

0.05% distortion at full power is high for a power amp ??? Have you looked at the distortion numbers of your speakers, let alone your subs? Your sub is declared good if it keeps distortion under 10%, 20x more than the suggested outlaw mono amps. Your mains should be 2%-5% depending on test frequency. Lower distortion for the tweeters and higher for the midrange.


The point I'm trying to make is that your speakers and subs are the greatest source of distortion in your audio chain (assuming you're not clipping your amplifiers of course). Even when using tube amplifiers with their higher distortion profile(compared to solid state amps), their distortion is not nearly as great as that one from your speakers, especially the subwoofer.


If you like your speakers with their higher distortion levels, especially when playing loudly or bombastic movie material, what you liked has a lot to do with their distortion, amongst other speaker characteristics.
Yeah that's alot of distortion for me for an amp..my speakers are .000035 and my head unit is .00002
my amp is the worst at .0001
Distortion on subs isn't as big of a problem as long as they have protection that's working properly. ..he is talking about monos for a front Soundstage where 90% of dialog and very fine musical precision is a must IMO
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post #19792 of 19798 Unread Today, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
If you end up getting that Crown please report back and let us know.
Will do, though of course I'll post over in the Klipsch thread as to not be useless clutter here. They are very cheap. XLS 2000 can be had for $409 shipped BNIB, and XLS 2500 for $168 BNIB shipped on eBay (and possibly cheaper elsewhere or even local at music/guitar shops), so worse case you maybe lose $50-$100 by buying and selling if it doesn't work out, or even if it does but you decide you want a consumer grade A/B amp, it isn't much for a test that can tell you a lot about your system.

Getting back on topic, I still love the PC-2000 in my bedroom system.

Home Theater Build in Progress (Contemporary living room, Klipsch RF-7 II 5.2 audio, Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector, Da-Lite 16:9 159" HP, recessed Mid Atlantic rack, etc)
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post #19793 of 19798 Unread Today, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
I'm sure there is a thread on AVS that deals with how to take accurate measurements. I use a Radio Shack SPL meter. Basic rule of thumb is Slow and C weighted. Hold it straight in front of you at ear level. Adjust speaker trim for 75dB.
Thanks...I've been on the Audyssey forum page most of the day but think I'll buy an SPL meter and see what happens.
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post #19794 of 19798 Unread Today, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Thanks Tom....should I modify Audyssey's sub setting to get closer to -6.dB? I did another calibration and Audyssey set the new sub level at -3.5dB and dropped the crossover to 150Hz for sub and 90Hz for the center.

Are those SVS prime bookshelf speakers? How do you like them? I'm thinking about buying a pair and center in a couple weeks.

Attachment 504529


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To get closer to the -6.0dB AVR trim level, continue to raise the subs volume and then re-run Audyssey ... you only need to run the first Audyssey test ( not all 8 positions ) to find where the subwoofer trim level will be ... once you get the sub level where you like it, then you can re-run Audyssey for all the 8 positions.

Yes those are SVS bookshelf speakers .... but they're not mine - it's just a google image I found for the PC2000 pic:-)

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MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
Marantz SR5007 / UD5007
Emotiva XPA-3
SVS PC13ultra

exercise room: MartinLogan LX16s / Dynamo700
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000
Gear in this thread - Sb1000 by PriceGrabber.com

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