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post #20581 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post
I don't have dual pluses (I have just one) but I am a big proponent of trying to EQ with the PEQs first and then running Audyssey. My results were night and day better this way.
That's really my question, does the peq on board the plus and Ultra give enough flexibility to get the job done. I don't have SubEQ so I'll be doing a lot of this by hand. I'll probably be going with the Ultra, so there will be some additional complications from me not having matching the subs. SVS has told me the plus and Ultra will play nicely together so I trust them.

Just figure that if I go with an Ultra I'll be out almost $3000 in subs, I don't want to skimp on the last $100.
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post #20582 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
I don't I have been using only my AVR Denon X4000 with Audyssey XT32. I bought also Umic-1 and download REW but I'm Apple guy and REW and Apple it is pain in the back part of mine body. I'm thinking to get windows for Mac so I will get all working much more easier.
There is a guide on the mini dsp site that explains how to use REW with a Mac. I use a Mac mini with HDMI.
It took a little bit of time to set up, and a couple of set up steps each time you start measuring, but it works well.
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post #20583 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
That's really my question, does the peq on board the plus and Ultra give enough flexibility to get the job done. I don't have SubEQ so I'll be doing a lot of this by hand. I'll probably be going with the Ultra, so there will be some additional complications from me not having matching the subs. SVS has told me the plus and Ultra will play nicely together so I trust them.

Just figure that if I go with an Ultra I'll be out almost $3000 in subs, I don't want to skimp on the last $100.
You'll need something to measure your setup with....like REQ. Once you do this you can see if there is any large resonances that need to be tamed. I used the two PEQ's in tandem to flatten out a wide point of emphasis in my room. It doesn't need to be perfect...just help perfect it for Audyssey. The problem with mine I believe is that audyssey saw the drop off for this wide resonance as the actual drop off point in the sub and gave up anything below that. Once I flattened it out the results were startling when followed up with audyssey.
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post #20584 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post
You'll need something to measure your setup with....like REQ. Once you do this you can see if there is any large resonances that need to be tamed. I used the two PEQ's in tandem to flatten out a wide point of emphasis in my room. It doesn't need to be perfect...just help perfect it for Audyssey. The problem with mine I believe is that audyssey saw the drop off for this wide resonance as the actual drop off point in the sub and gave up anything below that. Once I flattened it out the results were startling when followed up with audyssey.
I have REW and measurement gear (though I haven't had much of a chance to play around with it), so I do plan on taking some measurements. All things considered, these subs have pretty decent PEQ's, so I would love to try to get things working between the two instead of buying more gear.

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post #20585 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog View Post
There is a guide on the mini dsp site that explains how to use REW with a Mac. I use a Mac mini with HDMI.
It took a little bit of time to set up, and a couple of set up steps each time you start measuring, but it works well.
Thanks for tip. I also have Mac mini with HDMi so as Macbook. I will check it out and maybe will get back to you with some questions if I can, thanks again.

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post #20586 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 03:31 PM
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REW will not fix Your issue but it will help you in finding the problem areas in the frequency response and Yu can make adjustments manually and REW will let you know the results.
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post #20587 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
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Hey buddy. I just noticed your PM and replied. Sorry, I honestly didn't see it before!

The ultras arrived today, and I'm setting them up right now. Too bad Audyssey pro takes so long to run.

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Thanks for tip. I also have Mac mini with HDMi so as Macbook. I will check it out and maybe will get back to you with some questions if I can, thanks again.

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post #20588 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Titan319 View Post
I am in process of ordering the Minidsp Umik-1 i E-mailed them to make sure there is a calibration file for 90 degree measurements and there is so i can download it from the website. So i am going to order the mic i thought that Audyssey should handle set up of dual subs and im curious what would REW to fix the situation.
REW will let you see, and optimize, your response before Audysey or any other eq attempts to smooth your response. If your placement is poor and you have a huge null, there is not much that Audysey or manual eq can do to help. REW can help you work on getting the smoothest response possible without any nulls so that your eq can get you the nice smooth response that results in the best quality bass. It lets you see exactly what any change you make with placement, phase, distance changes, crossover changes, etc does to to your FR.

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post #20589 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
REW will let you see, and optimize, your response before Audysey or any other eq attempts to smooth your response. If your placement is poor and you have a huge null, there is not much that Audysey or manual eq can do to help. REW can help you work on getting the smoothest response possible without any nulls so that your eq can get you the nice smooth response that results in the best quality bass. It lets you see exactly what any change you make with placement, phase, distance changes, crossover changes, etc does to to your FR.
So when i get the mic and i start testing do i need to run Audyssey every time or move the sub while the distance setting stays the same around the room and measure until i get the best response? Or how does that work.

Last edited by Titan319; Yesterday at 07:15 PM.
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post #20590 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 08:15 PM
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Titan, you can also get the UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs if you want the best calibration. I don't know how large the difference is, but that's what was recommended to me.
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post #20591 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan319 View Post
So when i get the mic and i start testing do i need to run Audyssey every time or move the sub while the distance setting stays the same around the room and measure until i get the best response? Or how does that work.
What you should do is the sub Crawl.

Put the sub in your listening position and go around the room to the spots you want to put the sub and measure the output with a
SPL meter using a white noise signal. Put the sub where the white noise measures the loudest.

Also you can use REW at each spot and run a Sub sweep for 10hz-120hz. Find the spot with the shallowest null.

Then Audyssey can trim the peeks.

I have not tried this but it makes sense to me unless others can add to why this is a good idea or bad.

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post #20592 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Hey buddy. I just noticed your PM and replied. Sorry, I honestly didn't see it before!

The ultras arrived today, and I'm setting them up right now. Too bad Audyssey pro takes so long to run.
Many subs loosen up after a break in period. I'd either wait to calibrate, or if you must, do it again after you get some hours on them.
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post #20593 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Many subs loosen up after a break in period. I'd either wait to calibrate, or if you must, do it again after you get some hours on them.
You do calibration couple of times anyway a specially with dual subs until you find right spots for them or right mode for Ultras.

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post #20594 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 11:20 PM
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Thanks for all the tips guy i guess first things first. Is it really worth the price difference to have the UMIK-1 calibrated from what i see it looks like it is accurate from 5hz to 25khz from the lab. And if i buy it direct it is accurate from 20hz to 20khz. Is this the only difference. I put my PB12+ back in place i am running 20hz tune man this sub has some serious bass output.
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post #20595 of 20606 Old Yesterday, 11:24 PM
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If that's the case - if you want to measure below 20Hz, I'd get the one from CSL. It's only a few more bucks.
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post #20596 of 20606 Old Today, 01:18 AM
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hi,


I m living to France,


Svs support, said me to turn up the sub s volume knob to 3/4 on my new pc 2000.
thats a more typical position...in pratice the about 3/4 works best for the sta 500d in 2000 line.


With this tune, on my Yamaha 2030, the sub level is -3.5 and 75 db spl on sonometer !


Many people in France, with pc,pb, the volume sub is 1/2 (12.00)..and it 's terrific with bass ! My system with 12.00 volume is very bad, without bass !


What do you think about ? and you which position in your PC ?


regards
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post #20597 of 20606 Old Today, 01:48 AM
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^^ I have my PC-2000 on 3/4. I Guess you need to calibrate you sub. Just adjusting the gain isn't enough.
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post #20598 of 20606 Old Today, 03:25 AM
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hi,


like me, you must turn to 3/4 with your Pc2000...
Svs is right, then...


On the notice, it's write between 10 to 12 h !!!! it's a error !


I thinked than 3/4 was very high...


Calibrate ? I haven't got antimode and the YPAO's Yamaha 2030, on the sub canal , none acoustic correction, he s doing... no room gain, the 2030 found ! strange


excuse me for my bad English !
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post #20599 of 20606 Old Today, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Many subs loosen up after a break in period. I'd either wait to calibrate, or if you must, do it again after you get some hours on them.
I'm pretty confident your subs frequency response is not going to change over time.
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post #20600 of 20606 Old Today, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan319 View Post
So when i get the mic and i start testing do i need to run Audyssey every time or move the sub while the distance setting stays the same around the room and measure until i get the best response? Or how does that work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Also you can use REW at each spot and run a Sub sweep for 10hz-120hz. Find the spot with the shallowest null.

Nashou
This is what I would do. I don't have dozens of placement options, so I just measured in all of the places where my sub possibly can be placed and chose the best spot that way. The subwoofer crawl won't be as accurate of a method....you might have a big peak at a certain frequency that makes it loud, or a seemingly good placement option, only to have a huge null that cannot be easily fixed in another.

Once you have found the best spot, run Audysey to compare your FR with your mains running. If you have a mess around crossover, you can try adjusting phase, distance, or crossover to adjust things.

Scale your graphs 45-105 dB and 10-200 Hz.

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post #20601 of 20606 Old Today, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I'm pretty confident your subs frequency response is not going to change over time.
My EMP speakers came with a booklet that among other things, stated that loosening up of the woofers after break in will lead to more bass extension. That is what I would consider a change in frequency response.

I've also read many people say the output of their sub when it was new changed after break in. Anecdotal yes, but take it for what it's worth.

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post #20602 of 20606 Old Today, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
My EMP speakers came with a booklet that among other things, stated that loosening up of the woofers after break in will lead to more bass extension. That is what I would consider a change in frequency response.

I've also read many people say the output of their sub when it was new changed after break in. Anecdotal yes, but take it for what it's worth.
I've heard of these opinions as well. I have just never seen any facts to support it. I have seen facts showing that speakers/subs do not change measurably with use.

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post #20603 of 20606 Old Today, 06:26 AM
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Wasn't a couple of pages just recently wasted on this?
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post #20604 of 20606 Old Today, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I've heard of these opinions as well. I have just never seen any facts to support it. I have seen facts showing that speakers/subs do not change measurably with use.
Bill posted facts saying they do change. But as usual you ignored it.

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post #20605 of 20606 Old Today, 07:49 AM
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Bill posted facts saying they do change. But as usual you ignored it.
I do my best not to ignore facts. I do take opinions and subjective impressions with a grain of salt. If Bill posted something in regards to the effects of speaker break in having a substantial impact on FR, it is possible that I missed it. If you mean Bill Fitzmaurice, I do listen closely to what he has to say.

Here are two sides of the story, both from the same source(Audioholics)

"Myth #1: Speaker Break-In

Some manufactures claim their products need hundreds of hours of break-in to perform at peak performance. We have a series of articles that investigate this very topic. The bottom line is it’s rarely true and most of the time just plain nonsense. Higher mass drivers such as woofers and subwoofers that use spiders which rely heavily on spider stiffening agents instead of a thicker more rigid material do in fact lose stiffness in their suspensions with use, particularly when used for long periods under high excursions. This is the kind of excursion that tests a designer’s skill and pushes the driver to the extremes for long periods of use. During use, the spiders and surrounds loosen up, but it usually happens in minutes, not hours, weeks or months. In the majority of cases, the air compliance inside the speaker cabinet plays a larger role in impeding the cone movement than the spider and surround.

In short, at some point it will not matter how much you break in that driver because when you put a big cone in a small box, the stiffness of the air in that box is going to completely dominate the overall stiffness and resonance of the system.

However, if you convince consumers to keep a pair of speakers in their home for a long period of time, they typically become acclimated to the sound and less likely to return the product.
"

Alternately, although this is from a manufacturer(possible bias?):

"Editorial Note on Driver Break-In from Shane Rich of RBH Sound
The time for break-in really depends on the level the speaker or subwoofer is being played at and the driver compliment in the system. Not all drivers are the same. Some drivers will exhibit little if any “break-in” at all. Others, especially those with more compliant suspensions can exhibit change that is readily apparent from a measurement standpoint (i.e. Fs lowers by 3-4 Hz on a woofer.) Our 6.5” mid-woofer does break in and that usually happens pretty quickly if used in a two-way speaker because bass frequencies will require enough excursion that the suspension stretches slightly in a relatively short time. However, use that same driver in a three-way system as a mid-range and the break-in will happen over a longer period of time due to the fact that the driver is not playing the low frequencies as it would in a two-way system."

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post #20606 of 20606 Unread Today, 10:16 AM
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FWIW, the 5.25" splitgap driver and magnetic planar tweeter used by Jon Lane for his Arx speakers supposedly really benefits from break-in, more than most. Several owners of them have said this. I'll find out if it's a myth very soon, and I'll measure my subs when I get them, too.
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