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post #22711 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by hpp8140 View Post
Well, I thought everything was going great with my system build, until I received the SB-1000 sub. Now I'm getting ear fatigue, since adding the sub.

  • Definitive SSA-50 soundbar
  • Yamaha RX-V479
  • Living room: ~10' x 15' surrounded by dining room and kitchen at sides. Total: ~30' x 15' open floor plan. Sitting 13' from speakers.


This is an entry-level into quality subs for me and I definitely hear sound I've been missing...the sub is clean/flat and more accurate. When I listen to my old sub, I hear that it makes the mid and highs more muddy, it's a little slow, and more boomy at times.

BUT how can this be? What am I doing wrong? I still prefer my old sub at times. It seems like the sound reaches my ears easier, listening quietly. Maybe, since it's ported, I prefer the room gain, it is easier on my ears, and it works better in my room than the sealed SB-1000. Sometimes, I can barely hear the SB-1000, but it's still seems to be causing ear fatigue LOL. I think it's too powerful, moves too much air directly to my seating position (don't have many choices for placement, since I'm using high crossover with passive soundbar due to localization issues). My old sub is also front firing, but much smaller 6-1/2" and rear ported.

I have a couple weeks until the return deadline....might have to try other smaller down-firing subs, like the ML 700 or audioengine S8. I realize they may not have the same bang for buck as SVS, but I may need to try if they work better in my space. I did attend a loud holiday party with a booming one note wonder sub before receiving the SVS and my ears may be fatigued from that....may need time to heal up and try listening again.
Sealed subs need more power than ported subs to be noticed. Ported subs have more output. I'd move up to the PB- or PC-2000 if I were you.

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post #22712 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
Sealed subs need more power than ported subs to be noticed. Ported subs have more output. I'd move up to the PB- or PC-2000 if I were you.
Whoa! SB-1000 is already killing the ears .

It's interesting, as I was researching subs, I noticed many spring for the higher end more powerful models and I thought, what are they doing with them in small/medium living rooms.

Still experimenting, but not sure what to make of the comparison between my smaller ported and larger sealed SVS. The smaller sub can rattle my kitchen cabinets already. I cannot listen to the SVS for long on some bass notes before turning down the volume (seems like overwhelming sound pressure to the ears), even though, the small sub appears louder with the room gains. The SVS puts more clean sound to the ears, while the smaller sounds good, but is mixing in more distortion ha-ha.

I'll let my ears heal and try again....hopefully that's the problem, because I really like the SVS...especially for music.

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post #22713 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post
Can you run an ultra off of a 15 amp circuit along with an AVR, tv, DVD player, cable box? Am currently running an sb-2000 with no problem
I had the same question before I purchased an SB13 earlier this year, so I asked SVS support and their response is below. I listen at moderate to loud levels and have never had a problem.


The SB13-Ultra won't necessarily pull 1000w continuously from your outlet like for example, a hair dryer would. Instead it will draw power intermittently at smaller burst. Around the louder, more strenuous scenes it could potentially draw more power, but again that should be in short burst and shouldn't be an issue! Please see below a good estimation of power being consumed by the 1000 watt amplifier in the SB13-Ultra.

· standby = 0.7W
· on at idle with no signal = 20W
· low to moderate volumes = 50-150W
loud to very loud volumes = 200-1000W
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post #22714 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lindbergh5 View Post
Good point. I thought about that, but one of the guys from svs, with whom I was chatting, stated that it was ok. The mains are rated to go much lower than 200. I'm not sure what algorithm audyssey uses to establish their cross over points. If there was a significant roll off at 200hz , for example, I would imagine there would be a dip in that band if I set the crossover point lower. The Svs pc2000 is rated to be flat to 250. However then you run into the localization phenomenon.
Thanks for your input.

Hi,

It's not so much that you will be missing hearing certain frequencies so much as it is you will have some frequencies that are simply not EQed. That is, Audyssey will not set filters to flatten the frequency response to the target curve below the measured F3 point of your speakers. Your speakers will still play those frequencies, with a lower crossover, but not very loudly, since Audyssey measured them as being down by 3db at about 150 to 200Hz. This sounds like something to experiment with a little bit more. Maybe by bringing them back just a little closer to the wall, you can find a happier medium between giving them some breathing room, and having a lower crossover. Then you can determine to what extent localization is occurring, and try to adjust accordingly, if necessary. Obviously, the smaller the un-EQed gap the better.

Regards,
Mike
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post #22715 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by lindbergh5 View Post
I have been slowly upgrading my HT system over the years, and have discovered the magic of good bass. My first entry level subwoofer, an Infinity ps12 just died, leaving me with my sole deftech SC6000 to churn out all the bass for my 5800cf theater. My mains are wall mounted magnepan mmc1s and a center CC5. I have mounted these unconventionally on articulating TV wall mount arms, so that I can move them somewhat and get a little space behind them to take advantage of their dipole nature. The problem is, that since these are not conventionally mounted (ie. with one side against the wall, and the other side swung out at 45 degrees), I loose some of the rated bass extension. (Audyssey recommends crossing them over at 200hz!) I don't think that there are many subs that extend that high linearly, and then , of course there is the sound localization problem when you cross over a sub that high. My plan is to cross them over at 100-120, despite the audyssey recommendation, and adding an SVS PC2000 to replace the broken sub. Will the PC2000 play well with the Deftech super cube 6000 that I already have, or do I need to look at purchasing 2 SVSs? If I purchased a second, for placement reasons, it would likely have to be a box design, such as the PB2000. What do you all think?
Thanks in advance.

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Hi,

With respect to the specific subwoofer question, I think that the best advice is to try to match subs somewhat, if possible. With that said, it may be that a PB-2000 would do just fine with your existing sub. I would probably go ahead and give it a try with the hope that I would like the result. If you aren't satisfied, it would then be possible to unload the 6000 and get another PB-2000. You have a lot of space to fill, so I think you are wise to be looking at a ported sub.

Regards,
Mike
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post #22716 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpp8140 View Post
Whoa! SB-1000 is already killing the ears .

It's interesting, as I was researching subs, I noticed many spring for the higher end more powerful models and I thought, what are they doing with them in small/medium living rooms.

Still experimenting, but not sure what to make of the comparison between my smaller ported and larger sealed SVS. The smaller sub can rattle my kitchen cabinets already. I cannot listen to the SVS for long on some bass notes before turning down the volume (seems like overwhelming sound pressure to the ears), even though, the small sub appears louder with the room gains. The SVS puts more clean sound to the ears, while the smaller sounds good, but is mixing in more distortion ha-ha.

I'll let my ears heal and try again....hopefully that's the problem, because I really like the SVS...especially for music.

Hi,

My guess is that there is something going on in the room, probably in the sub-50Hz range which is causing a problem. Below about 150Hz, in a small room, what you hear is about 50% speaker/sub and about 50% the room. Your old sub, with that tiny driver, probably just wasn't powerful enough to go under 45 or 50Hz, where you may be now experiencing some sort of problem.

I'm not really sure what to suggest here. I think that the best advice would be to do a sub crawl (Google) to determine the best location for your sub. If you are like most of us, you will have limited placement options, but sometimes even fairly small adjustments in positioning can help. Try that, and see if you can get the sub positioned in a way that improves the frequency response at your MLP. If so, things will sound better. Unfortunately, difficult room modes sometimes necessitate having two subs working together.

But, please try this first, and let us know if the sub crawl helps at all.

Regards,
Mike
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post #22717 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bxbigpipi View Post
I have my speakers set to small and they are 60-80hz. The receiver says sub off on and 120hz. Is that good
unless your speakers have a large downpoint between 80 and 120hz you're going to have a peak between 80 and 120 as all speakers will be creating output at that frequency. if you cross the speakers at 80 you usually cross the sub at 80 as well. in some cases you may even cross the sub at 60 if the speakers are all near a wall/corner and the sub/room is having too much overlap with the mains.
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post #22718 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1949 View Post
I had the same question before I purchased an SB13 earlier this year, so I asked SVS support and their response is below. I listen at moderate to loud levels and have never had a problem.


The SB13-Ultra won't necessarily pull 1000w continuously from your outlet like for example, a hair dryer would. Instead it will draw power intermittently at smaller burst. Around the louder, more strenuous scenes it could potentially draw more power, but again that should be in short burst and shouldn't be an issue! Please see below a good estimation of power being consumed by the 1000 watt amplifier in the SB13-Ultra.

· standby = 0.7W
· on at idle with no signal = 20W
· low to moderate volumes = 50-150W
loud to very loud volumes = 200-1000W

Thanks. Great info.

TWD
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post #22719 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hpp8140 View Post
Whoa! SB-1000 is already killing the ears .

It's interesting, as I was researching subs, I noticed many spring for the higher end more powerful models and I thought, what are they doing with them in small/medium living rooms.

Still experimenting, but not sure what to make of the comparison between my smaller ported and larger sealed SVS. The smaller sub can rattle my kitchen cabinets already. I cannot listen to the SVS for long on some bass notes before turning down the volume (seems like overwhelming sound pressure to the ears), even though, the small sub appears louder with the room gains. The SVS puts more clean sound to the ears, while the smaller sounds good, but is mixing in more distortion ha-ha.

I'll let my ears heal and try again....hopefully that's the problem, because I really like the SVS...especially for music.
Do you have the ability to run Room EQ Wizard in your room? I would love to see those charts and figure out what is going on. The sub shouldn't be giving you ear fatigue.
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post #22720 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 10:13 PM
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Is the sound quality of the SB-2000 noticeably better than the SB-1000? I am trying to decide between the two subs. I won't be playing very loud, so volume isn't really a factor, but I know the SB-2000 has a different driver with a much more robust magnet/motor structure. I was wondering if this results in an improvement in bass detail and tightness, or if you're really just paying for more spl and a few more hz of extension. If it's the former I might spend the extra money on the 2000, but if it's the latter, then the 1000 would be enough.
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post #22721 of 26580 Old 12-30-2015, 11:04 PM
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Just thought I'd throw this out there.
I have 2 SB-2000s coming. I have been reading and know it will take a little time to place and adjust the subs. I thought I would throw up a pic of the room and see if anybody has experience with a similar layouts.
Pioneer SC-91 with Monitor Audio Silver 10s. center, and surrounds. towers are 10' apart, 2.5' off the wall, and 11' to center LP. Overall dimension is 25x25' w/8' ceilings. I have been getting into 2.1 listening with HT secondary. Btw...the candles on the wall are the surrounds lol. Thanks
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post #22722 of 26580 Old 12-31-2015, 05:38 AM
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Just thought I'd throw this out there.
I have 2 SB-2000s coming. I have been reading and know it will take a little time to place and adjust the subs. I thought I would throw up a pic of the room and see if anybody has experience with a similar layouts.
Pioneer SC-91 with Monitor Audio Silver 10s. center, and surrounds. towers are 10' apart, 2.5' off the wall, and 11' to center LP. Overall dimension is 25x25' w/8' ceilings. I have been getting into 2.1 listening with HT secondary. Btw...the candles on the wall are the surrounds lol. Thanks

Hi Curt,

As you know, sealed subs particularly benefit from boundary and room gain. Looking at your room, with the opening to the dining area, the two locations which stand out to me as good potential placement options are the left front corner, and somewhere on the partial wall to the right of the sofa. Of course, that doesn't mean that those will be the best locations. Putting both subs on the front wall, or doing something else entirely (using the left wall, for instance) may end up working better. Hard to predict. But my first instinct would be to utilize the left front corner (in, or near), and to avoid the opening to the right side of the room. If you don't mind investing a little time, you can try a variety of combinations to find the best one.

Regards,
Mike
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post #22723 of 26580 Old 12-31-2015, 10:01 AM
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Hi,

My guess is that there is something going on in the room, probably in the sub-50Hz range which is causing a problem. Below about 150Hz, in a small room, what you hear is about 50% speaker/sub and about 50% the room. Your old sub, with that tiny driver, probably just wasn't powerful enough to go under 45 or 50Hz, where you may be now experiencing some sort of problem.

I'm not really sure what to suggest here. I think that the best advice would be to do a sub crawl (Google) to determine the best location for your sub. If you are like most of us, you will have limited placement options, but sometimes even fairly small adjustments in positioning can help. Try that, and see if you can get the sub positioned in a way that improves the frequency response at your MLP. If so, things will sound better. Unfortunately, difficult room modes sometimes necessitate having two subs working together.

But, please try this first, and let us know if the sub crawl helps at all.

Regards,
Mike
Yeah, I don't think the sealed svs works best in the old sub location. I think the output may be too much for the corner loading and my ears to handle. The old sub can play down to mid 30Hz. Unfortunately, I don't have many options for placement if I want to use a passive soundbar with high > 80Hz crossover to avoid localization issues.

I purchased a long sub cable to experiment with placement and do a sub crawl. It's a long stretch, but I may give up the soundbar and just use bookshelves for fronts that can play low to avoid localization. Cosmetically, I would like to stick with the soundbar (also have Goldenear 3d array on the way). I would make a custom grille the width of my TV to cover it.

Here is a picture from January when I was testing some powered soundbars. I also placed the SVS in the same left corner. I think it would be best if I could move it a few inches to the right away from the corner, but no space.
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post #22724 of 26580 Old 12-31-2015, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
Do you have the ability to run Room EQ Wizard in your room? I would love to see those charts and figure out what is going on. The sub shouldn't be giving you ear fatigue.
No, but I saw a few tutorials on YouTube to check out.

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post #22725 of 26580 Old 12-31-2015, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hpp8140 View Post
Yeah, I don't think the sealed svs works best in the old sub location. I think the output may be too much for the corner loading and my ears to handle. The old sub can play down to mid 30Hz. Unfortunately, I don't have many options for placement if I want to use a passive soundbar with high > 80Hz crossover to avoid localization issues.

I purchased a long sub cable to experiment with placement and do a sub crawl. It's a long stretch, but I may give up the soundbar and just use bookshelves for fronts that can play low to avoid localization. Cosmetically, I would like to stick with the soundbar (also have Goldenear 3d array on the way). I would make a custom grille the width of my TV to cover it.

Here is a picture from January when I was testing some powered soundbars. I also placed the SVS in the same left corner. I think it would be best if I could move it a few inches to the right away from the corner, but no space.

Sometimes even moving the sub a few inches will help, so hopefully you can find a better location. If you weren't concerned about localization issues, it would certainly expand your potential placement options. This goes a little beyond the scope of your original question, but I would love to see you try some nice bookshelf speakers. They would have much larger drivers with more low-end capabilities, much more flexibility in positioning to optimize sound quality, and would create a much wider soundstage for both movies and music.

Soundbars are a very clean looking and affordable way to get into HT. And sometimes, when space is at an absolute premium, they might be the only practical alternative. But, just as moving to an SVS sub constitutes a substantial performance upgrade, so can moving to separates from a soundbar. I hope you don't mind a little unsolicited advice on that one.

Regards,
Mike
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post #22726 of 26580 Old 12-31-2015, 02:12 PM
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Are anyone of you guy's like me waiting and can't wait to here what the new Star war's force wakens Blu-ray will sound like.I have a good feeling the film will come out on may 4th 2016,Or sooner,But then again,I can't just imagine what the bass will sound like on a SVS PB-13 ULTRA.Or just any SVS subwoofer.It's going to be one hell of a Blu-ray audio track if you ask me.I can't even believe that it's made 1 billion 300 million so far in the box office.And it's not even out yet in china or japan.This film has a good chance of making more money then James camron's titanic.
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post #22727 of 26580 Old 12-31-2015, 05:29 PM
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Are anyone of you guy's like me waiting and can't wait to here what the new Star war's force wakens Blu-ray will sound like.I have a good feeling the film will come out on may 4th 2016,Or sooner,But then again,I can't just imagine what the bass will sound like on a SVS PB-13 ULTRA.Or just any SVS subwoofer.It's going to be one hell of a Blu-ray audio track if you ask me.I can't even believe that it's made 1 billion 300 million so far in the box office.And it's not even out yet in china or japan.This film has a good chance of making more money then James camron's titanic.
I'm crossing my fingers that Disney gives us an Atmos mix!

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I'm crossing my fingers that Disney gives us an Atmos mix!
I ma hoping that 2016 is the year of 4K Blu-Ray and Making sure every blockbuster and action film is Running Atmos.This need's to be the year it happen's.If not then it's just a big waste of time 4K and Atmos.So keeping my finger crossed too
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post #22729 of 26580 Old 01-01-2016, 07:57 AM
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As of a hour ago i am without a sub. For kicks i set my CM10S2's to large and noticed right away a change. I miss that little SB12 NSD already. Will order a SB13U. That should rip my 13x14 bedroom apart.
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post #22730 of 26580 Old 01-01-2016, 09:52 AM
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As of a hour ago i am without a sub. For kicks i set my CM10S2's to large and noticed right away a change. I miss that little SB12 NSD already. Will order a SB13U. That should rip my 13x14 bedroom apart.


RIP, SB-12! That should be a substantial upgrade. I hope you will post your impressions from the remnants of your bedroom.
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post #22731 of 26580 Old 01-01-2016, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack1949 View Post
I had the same question before I purchased an SB13 earlier this year, so I asked SVS support and their response is below. I listen at moderate to loud levels and have never had a problem.


The SB13-Ultra won't necessarily pull 1000w continuously from your outlet like for example, a hair dryer would. Instead it will draw power intermittently at smaller burst. Around the louder, more strenuous scenes it could potentially draw more power, but again that should be in short burst and shouldn't be an issue! Please see below a good estimation of power being consumed by the 1000 watt amplifier in the SB13-Ultra.

· standby = 0.7W
· on at idle with no signal = 20W
· low to moderate volumes = 50-150W
loud to very loud volumes = 200-1000W
Just to expand slightly on this, I have been running a pair of SVS SB13 Ultras on a single 15 amp circuit with all my AV gear for the last 2 years or so without anything terribly significant happening. Sort of.

Not to any real surprise, it's the seriously low frequencies in movies or any specialty bass music (eg: Bass I Love You) at very loud volumes that require the most power. Volume control and bass amounts is much like salt and pepper: it's very subjective and each person may want different amounts of each. I keep my bass around 9dB hot from calibration. When watching the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow, it was an iconic moment in my AV history for sure. My friends and I had smiles that touched our ears! Of course, we re-watched the opening sequence a few times and then I got silly with the volume control. I played it once at -8dB volume and the subs pulled so much power, it made my Panamax conditioner (the subs are not behind this) intervene and all my gear turned off. I did not trip the breaker, however.

Later this fall, I had a few friends over and we were jamming to Steve Wilson's new album. I went up stairs to fetch another drink and one of them went insane with the volume. I have a Yamaha 3040 receiver paired with some PSA MTM-210 speakers and he juiced it to -3dB. I had to text him to turn it down before I felt it was comfortable coming back down the stairs. About 10 minutes later, my breaker tripped and I had to install a new one because it was broken!

On a side note in the realm of amps and power draw, I did some measuring with a single PSA S3000i as I kept blowing my 15A circuits and had major light dimming problems, it didn't matter if I used the shared one with my AV or a plug down the hall that was on a different circuit. Playing Bass I Love You could repeatedly trip the breaker! I was able to measure, at the breaker with a Fluke multimeter, over 27 amps (peak) of draw during the lowest burps of the bass. Nominal was around 3-4 amps with that combination.

Now, that is a bit of a long story, but I do believe that any combo with a capable driver and solid amp can drive a circuit to the ground. It's simply electronics at work here. My friends think that my equipment combination greatly decreased the lifespan of the breaker as my house is only 10 years old. I do have plans this next summer to install a dedicated 20 amp circuit for my subs as a precautionary measure.

Travis
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post #22732 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 05:46 AM
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I just placed a order for a SB13Ultra. Should get it by end of next week i guess.
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post #22733 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 07:49 AM
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I just placed a order for a SB13Ultra. Should get it by end of next week i guess.
Great choice, congrats and enjoy.

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post #22734 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 07:58 AM
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Question since SVS is coming out with an elevation speakers in April. I was thinking about getting the "Satellite" for my height speakers, Should I wait to get the elevation speakers in April or continue with my original plan?

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post #22735 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 09:15 AM
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Great choice, congrats and enjoy.
Thanks. A SB13 Ultra just popped up on the outlet section so i jumped. It had a small chip that can't be seen more than a foot back.

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post #22736 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 09:34 AM
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Question since SVS is coming out with an elevation speakers in April. I was thinking about getting the "Satellite" for my height speakers, Should I wait to get the elevation speakers in April or continue with my original plan?

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I'm using Prime Satellites for on-ceiling Atmos speakers and it works well. There are particular mounts that SVS recommended I use that accommodated the Keyhole mount. I believe they were from Videosecu.
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post #22737 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 09:58 AM
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Thanks. A SB13 Ultra just popped up on the outlet section so i jumped. It had a small chip that can't be seen more than a foot back.
Great, oh yes why not from outlet. I got from there both my subs and nothing wrong with them.
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post #22738 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 06:42 PM
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I just posted picked up an older PC Ultra (12") for......$150!

Actually paid $350simce I ended up getting some great Monitor Audio fronts and a center. MSRP for everything originally was about $3800.

Not a bad deal!

This ultra is great. I had a PB10 I gave to my dad. quite an upgrade. Tomorrow I'll have some fun setting everything up correctly.
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post #22739 of 26580 Old 01-02-2016, 07:25 PM
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I just posted picked up an older PC Ultra (12") for......$150!

Actually paid $350simce I ended up getting some great Monitor Audio fronts and a center. MSRP for everything originally was about $3800.

Not a bad deal!

This ultra is great. I had a PB10 I gave to my dad. quite an upgrade. Tomorrow I'll have some fun setting everything up correctly.

Wow lucky guy. Late Xmas present.


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post #22740 of 26580 Old 01-03-2016, 06:27 AM
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I just posted picked up an older PC Ultra (12") for......$150!

Actually paid $350simce I ended up getting some great Monitor Audio fronts and a center. MSRP for everything originally was about $3800.

Not a bad deal!

This ultra is great. I had a PB10 I gave to my dad. quite an upgrade. Tomorrow I'll have some fun setting everything up correctly.

That's quite a deal, congratulations! I have heard good things about Monitor Audio. Along with the Ultra, that should be a pretty big upgrade.
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