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post #23581 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
The cone flapping doesn't sound normal. Is it occurring on both units or just one of them? I would take the issue one sub at a time and figure out which one is causing the problems. If only one is causing the flapping sound, give SVS a call because it may be a defective unit.
It's happening to both units.

I live on the other side of the world, so like I mentioned, sending the subs back is not going to be very practical.
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post #23582 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try out what you mentioned.

But to make some things more clear;

1) I have YPAO RSC, Yamaha RXA1050.
2) I noticed the cone flapping with and without the PEQ.
3) Both my subs volume gain knob is on the 5th' tick, so its slightly below exact 12 o' clock.
4) The cone flapping happens regardless of whether I use the SB2000 and SB1000 together or alone.
5) Sub is placed in front of my seat, between the mains.
6) Sub trim on AVR is at +2.0db which with the combination of the knob at slightly below 12 o' clock gave me 75db on the SPL meter.
7) The cone flapping is really only most obvious during the Dolby Amaze and Dolby Horizon demos as I mentioned.

I'll do some more tests today with some other bass heavy movies (War of the Worlds? Unbroken's opening scene? Pacific Rim?) and see if I can pinpoint the issue. Thanks!
I am pretty sure trim on AVR should be negative. This way, you could easily get clipped signal, especially on demanding content.
You could try World War Z grenade scene, its a nasty sinewave drop from high bass to low bass frequencies and in the end my weaker sub always bottoms out. Start out with low volume, its really nasty.

Where are you from exactly? Maybe you could make a deal with them to return it to shop in Europe if thats more convenient for you and if they agree. But better pinpoint the problem first...see how lucky other SB1000 and 2000 owners are with mentioned scenes.
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post #23583 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
I am pretty sure trim on AVR should be negative. This way, you could easily get clipped signal, especially on demanding content.
You could try World War Z grenade scene, its a nasty sinewave drop from high bass to low bass frequencies and in the end my weaker sub always bottoms out. Start out with low volume, its really nasty.

Where are you from exactly? Maybe you could make a deal with them to return it to shop in Europe if thats more convenient for you and if they agree. But better pinpoint the problem first...see how lucky other SB1000 and 2000 owners are with mentioned scenes.
I just tried setting the AVR sub trim to -3.5db. The cone flapping is still there, but it's much less now. Will do a few more tests.
Every bass heavy movie I've tried thus far doesn't exhibit any cone flapping, even if I have it back at my original +2db trim. I have not found a source which has the same bass extension like the Dolby Amaze and Horizon demo clips, like I said these are the only 2 clips which are exhibiting the cone flapping issue. I'll check out the World War Z scene you mentioned.

I'm from Malaysia.
So far I've seen ONE user review in SVS site (it's one of the 3 stars review) about the SB2000 exhibiting a similar cone flapping issue - http://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000

I've also only read 2 opinions from 2 users over the net about their SB2000 rattling or sounding weak. So they're not exactly cone flap issues.
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post #23584 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
I am pretty sure trim on AVR should be negative. This way, you could easily get clipped signal, especially on demanding content.
You could try World War Z grenade scene, its a nasty sinewave drop from high bass to low bass frequencies and in the end my weaker sub always bottoms out. Start out with low volume, its really nasty.

Where are you from exactly? Maybe you could make a deal with them to return it to shop in Europe if thats more convenient for you and if they agree. But better pinpoint the problem first...see how lucky other SB1000 and 2000 owners are with mentioned scenes.
SVS does recommend that you keep the trims for the sub down in the negative numbers on the AVR. Honestly I'm not totally sure what you mean by cone flapping, but as the previous poster said I'm thinking that if you don't have a defective unit (which since it is coming from both you probably don't) it may well be clipping. SVS has a pretty aggressive limiter, however with some effort it is still possible to cause clipping. I would back you levels off and see if that fixes the problem.

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post #23585 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Alright, have a little issue here.

I've now gotten the SB2000 in addition to my current SB1000. I now have an issue that I didn't noticed before: cone flapping.
Really, I've been watching a lot of movies and playing a lot of games with the SB1000 and now the SB2000 (plus both of them combined), but there was never any issue with cone flapping except in Edge of Tomorrow's opening scene, but it was always like a split second.

But yesterday just for the heck of it I ran some of the Dolby Atmos demo tests, then there it was: cone flap. It only happen most particularly on the Dolby Amaze test, where the "Powerful Bass" scene plays. Both my SB2000 and SB1000 cones flapped!
In the Dolby Horizon test, when the space shuttles was flying over head there's a deep bass rumble sound that accompanies it and again; cone flapping!

I've doubled checked the connections, played at low volumes, disabled any PEQ, lowered the sub trim on the AVR (which means going much lower than the standard 75db) and yet the cone flapping remains. Any ideas?

I'll be kind of miff'd if this is a defect because I can't really send the subs back to SVS since I don't live in the US.
The Dolby Amaze test and that sweep in Edge of Tomorrow will taxi any subwoofer. Everything is fine now back to our regular scheduled programming.

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post #23586 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 07:56 AM
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I've never heard of "cone flapping"...what is that?

Do you mean port chuffing? The server room scene from Pulse caused one of my two PB10's to have massive port chuffing...you could hear the air coming out of the port in, well, chuffs.

I'd already replaced the PB10's with PB-2000's by the time I got Edge of Tomorrow and the Dolby Demo discs...and the only problem I have now is house chufffing. It's a good problem to have.

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post #23587 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 07:57 AM
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I think the cone flapping is caused by the sub trying to reproduce a freq it can't reach. I'd call SVS and ask them to help troubleshoot.
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post #23588 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bmock17 View Post
I agree, can't hurt to try it.

I also agree that it can't hurt to try it. But if you are using Audyssey, I wouldn't do it. So, if that is a potential issue, we can discuss why it wouldn't be a good idea.
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post #23589 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SodomySquirrel View Post
The grill is a pain in the ass to put on.

Maybe I'm just an idiot...

I think the grille is a little bit of a PITA too, unless we are both idiots. But once it's on, you don't have to mess with it again, and I definitely like the way it protects the driver. Besides, it's cool looking to me.
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post #23590 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by stikle View Post
I've never heard of "cone flapping"...what is that?

Do you mean port chuffing? The server room scene from Pulse caused one of my two PB10's to have massive port chuffing...you could hear the air coming out of the port in, well, chuffs.

I'd already replaced the PB10's with PB-2000's by the time I got Edge of Tomorrow and the Dolby Demo discs...and the only problem I have now is house chufffing. It's a good problem to have.
SBs cant really port chuff...since there are no ports
But driver can bottom out
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post #23591 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
I just tried setting the AVR sub trim to -3.5db. The cone flapping is still there, but it's much less now. Will do a few more tests.
Every bass heavy movie I've tried thus far doesn't exhibit any cone flapping, even if I have it back at my original +2db trim. I have not found a source which has the same bass extension like the Dolby Amaze and Horizon demo clips, like I said these are the only 2 clips which are exhibiting the cone flapping issue. I'll check out the World War Z scene you mentioned.

I'm from Malaysia.
So far I've seen ONE user review in SVS site (it's one of the 3 stars review) about the SB2000 exhibiting a similar cone flapping issue - http://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000

I've also only read 2 opinions from 2 users over the net about their SB2000 rattling or sounding weak. So they're not exactly cone flap issues.

Hi,

I think you have gotten several good pieces of advice. If you don't mind, I'd like to summarize them. First, giving SVS a call to ask for advice is different than trying to do a return. You just want to know what's going on, and whether it is a real problem. Second, try to keep your AVR sub trim negative, even if that means turning up the gain on your subs. Third, you may be fine as long as you as you are careful with that opening scene in EOT, and avoid the test disks.

You haven't said how large your room is, or whether it is open to other parts of your house, but keeping the AVR trim level low and being careful with a couple of programs may work for you. At some point, it may be worth looking into whether you could sell your SB-1000, and upgrade to two matching SB-2000's. If possible, at some point, that would probably be beneficial.

Regards,
Mike
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post #23592 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
SVS does recommend that you keep the trims for the sub down in the negative numbers on the AVR. Honestly I'm not totally sure what you mean by cone flapping, but as the previous poster said I'm thinking that if you don't have a defective unit (which since it is coming from both you probably don't) it may well be clipping. SVS has a pretty aggressive limiter, however with some effort it is still possible to cause clipping. I would back you levels off and see if that fixes the problem.
Alright I just tried it with the trim down at -6db and the volume knob on both subs at 9' o clock. I'm also playing at -28db from reference, bass is rather weak but the cone flap IS still there despite it being rather minimal at this volume. But as said, the bass overall is rather weak at this volume.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
The Dolby Amaze test and that sweep in Edge of Tomorrow will taxi any subwoofer. Everything is fine now back to our regular scheduled programming.
So... it happens with you too then?


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Originally Posted by stikle View Post
I've never heard of "cone flapping"...what is that?

Do you mean port chuffing? The server room scene from Pulse caused one of my two PB10's to have massive port chuffing...you could hear the air coming out of the port in, well, chuffs.

I'd already replaced the PB10's with PB-2000's by the time I got Edge of Tomorrow and the Dolby Demo discs...and the only problem I have now is house chufffing. It's a good problem to have.
I'm using the SB1000 and SB2000, no ports to chuff. Cone flapping is basically the cone having too much excursion that the rubber starts to make a "tick-tacking" sound. I won't say it's annoying, but I'm just making sure if it isn't a defect on both my subs.


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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think you have gotten several good pieces of advice. If you don't mind, I'd like to summarize them. First, giving SVS a call to ask for advice is different than trying to do a return. You just want to know what's going on, and whether it is a real problem. Second, try to keep your AVR sub trim negative, even if that means turning up the gain on your subs. Third, you may be fine as long as you as you are careful with that opening scene in EOT, and avoid the test disks.

You haven't said how large your room is, or whether it is open to other parts of your house, but keeping the AVR trim level low and being careful with a couple of programs may work for you. At some point, it may be worth looking into whether you could sell your SB-1000, and upgrade to two matching SB-2000's. If possible, at some point, that would probably be beneficial.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you Mike.

Yes, I really do appreciate all the advice so far. I'd call SVS as the last resort, because calling them means going through an international number. I've e-mailed them so I'll see if there's any reply there too.

This setup is actually in a bedroom - 17x11x8.5 ft (LxWxH). So being a bedroom, it's basically sealed with 1 door in and out. Yup, looking to buy a second SB2000 but was just a little surprised this so called "cone flap" happened. Just trying to make sure that's all.

Last edited by Ben Tan; 04-05-2016 at 08:53 AM.
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post #23593 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Alright I just tried it with the trim down at -6db and the volume knob on both subs at 9' o clock. I'm also playing at -28db from reference, bass is rather weak but the cone flap IS still there despite it being rather minimal at this volume. But as said, the bass overall is rather weak at this volume.


Thank you Mike.

Yes, I really do appreciate all the advice so far. I'd call SVS as the last resort, because calling them means going through an international number. I've e-mailed them so I'll see if there's any reply there too.

This setup is actually in a bedroom - 17x11x8.5 (LxWxH). So being a bedroom, it's basically sealed with 1 door in and out. Yup, looking to buy a second SB2000 but was just a little surprised this so called "cone flap" happened. Just trying to make sure that's all.

You are very welcome! Remember, you can turn the gain knobs on your subs higher than 12:00. You want to start with a fairly high gain setting to make the sub amps do all of the work. Then, when you adjust the volume up in your AVR, you are careful to stay in negative trim numbers, and are less likely to drive your sub to clip.
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post #23594 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are very welcome! Remember, you can turn the gain knobs on your subs higher than 12:00. You want to start with a fairly high gain setting to make the sub amps do all of the work. Then, when you adjust the volume up in your AVR, you are careful to stay in negative trim numbers, and are less likely to drive your sub to clip.
Yes. I found that having the sub gain at @ 1 o'clock was the sweet spot. I also have the pb-2000 in a small bedroom. It's almost entirely for music, however, with a bit of gaming included.
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post #23595 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 09:24 AM
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Alright so an update.

I set the receiver's trim to -5db, then set the volume knob on the SB1000 to 2' o clock. This is also what SVS told me in a replied email just like the kind advices here.
Doing the Dolby Amaze demo again, there is now almost no more cone flapping at -25db volume. Going back EoT, there's no more cone flap either.

As another test, I played a 40hz sine wave from - http://www.demolandia.net/speaker-test/tones.html
There was some cone flapping with my original settings. Not anymore.

I'll try the SB2000 next.

Thanks for the help everybody! I think I've singled out the issue to be too high of a trim on the AVR and too low of a gain on the subs itself. So the standard rule of thumb by setting volume knob to 12 (or below) and run YPAO is not correct, as per Yamaha's advice.

*EDIT*
Welp, cone flap still happening with the SB2000. Hmmm...

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post #23596 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 10:08 AM
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I'm curious to know what the cone flapping "sounds" like? Are you able to making a recording of it?

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post #23597 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
SBs cant really port chuff...since there are no ports But driver can bottom out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
I'm using the SB1000 and SB2000, no ports to chuff. Cone flapping is basically the cone having too much excursion that the rubber starts to make a "tick-tacking" sound. I won't say it's annoying, but I'm just making sure if it isn't a defect on both my subs.

Bwahahahaha I knew that. Really.

Morning pre-coffee posting idiocy.
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post #23598 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 10:31 AM
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Bwahahahaha I knew that. Really.

Morning pre-coffee posting idiocy.

Man, I can't always even blame it on coffee.
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post #23599 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 01:35 PM
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HEY!

I just remembered something...

Quote:
Cone flapping is basically the cone having too much excursion that the rubber starts to make a "tick-tacking" sound. I won't say it's annoying, but I'm just making sure if it isn't a defect on both my subs.

When I first got my dual PB-2000's, one of them would make an occasional odd popping sound. SVS ended up sending me a new one and all has been well. I followed up with Ed to see what the problem ended up being and he said that one of the amp connections wasn't fully connected, and during some bass sequences the wire lost contact briefly.

So what you might do is pull the plate amp (after unplugging power from the wall) and check to make sure that the driver leads are firmly connected to the amp. Could be that simple...or not even remotely related. <10 minutes to rule that out though.

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post #23600 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 02:14 PM
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A loose connection won't make the flapping sound.
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post #23601 of 25960 Old 04-05-2016, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Alright I just tried it with the trim down at -6db and the volume knob on both subs at 9' o clock. I'm also playing at -28db from reference, bass is rather weak but the cone flap IS still there despite it being rather minimal at this volume. But as said, the bass overall is rather weak at this volume.




So... it happens with you too then?




I'm using the SB1000 and SB2000, no ports to chuff. Cone flapping is basically the cone having too much excursion that the rubber starts to make a "tick-tacking" sound. I won't say it's annoying, but I'm just making sure if it isn't a defect on both my subs.




Thank you Mike.

Yes, I really do appreciate all the advice so far. I'd call SVS as the last resort, because calling them means going through an international number. I've e-mailed them so I'll see if there's any reply there too.

This setup is actually in a bedroom - 17x11x8.5 ft (LxWxH). So being a bedroom, it's basically sealed with 1 door in and out. Yup, looking to buy a second SB2000 but was just a little surprised this so called "cone flap" happened. Just trying to make sure that's all.
It doesn't flap but I can tell it's starting to get in the I'm working too hard turn me down please before I slap you in the face mode.

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post #23602 of 25960 Old 04-06-2016, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tezster View Post
I'm curious to know what the cone flapping "sounds" like? Are you able to making a recording of it?
I'll try recording it later on. I've pretty much sorted out the SB1000, still tinkering with the SB2000.


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Originally Posted by stikle View Post
HEY!

I just remembered something...

When I first got my dual PB-2000's, one of them would make an occasional odd popping sound. SVS ended up sending me a new one and all has been well. I followed up with Ed to see what the problem ended up being and he said that one of the amp connections wasn't fully connected, and during some bass sequences the wire lost contact briefly.

So what you might do is pull the plate amp (after unplugging power from the wall) and check to make sure that the driver leads are firmly connected to the amp. Could be that simple...or not even remotely related. <10 minutes to rule that out though.
Hmmm... there isn't any popping sound though, at least not like what it would sound coming from an amp. The sound comes when the cone is having too much excursion.

But really, this is ONLY happening consistently in the Dolby atmos Amaze and Horizon demo and just 1 part of EoT. I've tried many bass heavy movies last night, none of them exhibited any issue on either the SB1000 nor SB2000.


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It doesn't flap but I can tell it's starting to get in the I'm working too hard turn me down please before I slap you in the face mode.
Appreciate the hilarious feedback! If your SB13 almost can't take it, then it makes sense that the puny SB1000 ever will.



**EDIT**

Got it all sorted out now. The sub was indeed bottoming out, after adjusting the gain and setting the receiver's trim to a very low negative, all is fine.
I think I have sort of caused a scene with my "complaints" though, really if I sounded rude or anything, I appologize.

Here's how one of my SB1000 was "cone flapping" (which it wasn't, it was actually screaming for help) -
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post #23603 of 25960 Old 04-07-2016, 05:47 PM
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I'll try recording it later on. I've pretty much sorted out the SB1000, still tinkering with the SB2000.




Hmmm... there isn't any popping sound though, at least not like what it would sound coming from an amp. The sound comes when the cone is having too much excursion.

But really, this is ONLY happening consistently in the Dolby atmos Amaze and Horizon demo and just 1 part of EoT. I've tried many bass heavy movies last night, none of them exhibited any issue on either the SB1000 nor SB2000.




Appreciate the hilarious feedback! If your SB13 almost can't take it, then it makes sense that the puny SB1000 ever will.



**EDIT**

Got it all sorted out now. The sub was indeed bottoming out, after adjusting the gain and setting the receiver's trim to a very low negative, all is fine.
I think I have sort of caused a scene with my "complaints" though, really if I sounded rude or anything, I appologize.

Here's how one of my SB1000 was "cone flapping" (which it wasn't, it was actually screaming for help) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK1dVqGuRxM
Having the sub in between the front speakers has it working harder than normal trying to produce the really low freq's. 95% of the time subs perform better in room corners.

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post #23604 of 25960 Old 04-07-2016, 09:32 PM
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Alright so an update.

I set the receiver's trim to -5db, then set the volume knob on the SB1000 to 2' o clock. This is also what SVS told me in a replied email just like the kind advices here.
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So the standard rule of thumb by setting volume knob to 12 (or below) and run YPAO is not correct, as per Yamaha's advice.
There are to many variables within different rooms for either one of these setups to actually be correct, they are meant to be starting points only.
When I set my system up I level matched my subs to be 5db higher than my mains. A test tone from my left front main was 75db, the 2 subs together were at 80db. With this when I ran YPAO I ended up with a -8db on the sub trim, and everything sounds pretty good. As such, I still won't push the opening scene of EOT to loud, it will kill the subs...and mine dig lower than yours.

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post #23605 of 25960 Old 04-07-2016, 09:33 PM
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Anyone in Vic, Australia chasing a PC13U i have one a may let go. And vice versa wouldnt mind a second one.

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post #23606 of 25960 Old 04-08-2016, 01:46 AM
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Having the sub in between the front speakers has it working harder than normal trying to produce the really low freq's. 95% of the time subs perform better in room corners.
I don't have a corner to put the sub, that's why I needed to place them in between the fronts. It's a bedroom setup after all. But right now, with 2'oclock gain and -5db on the receiver, it sounds very nice.

The plan for a dedicated HT room is in the cards and I've already started laying out the plans for that, will probably take some time though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
There are to many variables within different rooms for either one of these setups to actually be correct, they are meant to be starting points only.
When I set my system up I level matched my subs to be 5db higher than my mains. A test tone from my left front main was 75db, the 2 subs together were at 80db. With this when I ran YPAO I ended up with a -8db on the sub trim, and everything sounds pretty good. As such, I still won't push the opening scene of EOT to loud, it will kill the subs...and mine dig lower than yours.
Understood.

I showed a picture of my bedroom setup to SVS, that's how they came back with recommendations. I tried it out and with a slight bit of some extra tweaking, I've gotten both the SB1000 and SB2000 to sound much better than before.
Not optimal, but given the circumstances that it is a bedroom setup, I'll have to live with it until I'm done with a dedicated HT area.
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post #23607 of 25960 Old 04-15-2016, 10:08 AM
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Hello everyone, I have some questions about SVS subs, I hope anyone can answer them. I got a PB-1000 for a few days. It sounds almost the same as my old $150 10 inch sub, except maybe power. It's not hard hitting as I expected but it's an improvement. I got a 6 inch soundbar subwoofer that hits very quickly, but that's because it is small and physics should always work and even if it is so small, it can move furniture way better than SVS, but soundbar sub sounds overwhelming and boomy.
1. I played 19hz tone and it is not playing it smooth like it should, I assume it is normal, I see an youtube video that PB-2000 doesn't play 17hz either, same effect. It plays 18hz fluently ?
2. PB-1000 has 100.3dB, PB-2000 has 103.8 dB, PB12-Plus has 107.1 dB, Pb13 ultra has 110.6 dB, all at 2 meters. This is true?
Is it true also that PB13 have double perceived volume from PB-1000 which is 10 dB ?
3. Can I get more output/headroom with dual PB-1000 instead of a single PB-2000 ? It means that dual PB-1000 will give me 103 dB and PB-2000 103.8 or does dual PB-1000 are more powerful ?
4. PB-2000 have same sound quality at 50% volume or it have a different sound ?
5. I do have a Denon X3100, I will get a proper calibration with dual PB-1000 ? I don't want to upgrade to subEQ HT, I had a very bad experience with X4100.
6. PB-2000 is worth the price for the extra 2hz ? For me it's like 18hz and 19hz will give different moving object in the room. At 20hz and 21hz, a door is vibrating, at 22hz the door stops, but another door started moving. So this should not give me another experience on movies. Even if it did, 18hz and 19hz notes should be at a way higher level to feel another experience.
7. PB-1000 is tighter than PB-2000 ? or does PB-2000 is slightly boomier because it should move the driver harder (greater mass)? This should be a reason why SVS doesn't produce 15 or 18 inch subs, those will be harder to move like a 10 inch sub.

Last edited by GraveNoX; 04-15-2016 at 01:39 PM.
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post #23608 of 25960 Old 04-16-2016, 06:54 AM
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Hello everyone, I have some questions about SVS subs, I hope anyone can answer them. I got a PB-1000 for a few days. It sounds almost the same as my old $150 10 inch sub, except maybe power. It's not hard hitting as I expected but it's an improvement. I got a 6 inch soundbar subwoofer that hits very quickly, but that's because it is small and physics should always work and even if it is so small, it can move furniture way better than SVS, but soundbar sub sounds overwhelming and boomy.
1. I played 19hz tone and it is not playing it smooth like it should, I assume it is normal, I see an youtube video that PB-2000 doesn't play 17hz either, same effect. It plays 18hz fluently ?
2. PB-1000 has 100.3dB, PB-2000 has 103.8 dB, PB12-Plus has 107.1 dB, Pb13 ultra has 110.6 dB, all at 2 meters. This is true?
Is it true also that PB13 have double perceived volume from PB-1000 which is 10 dB ?
3. Can I get more output/headroom with dual PB-1000 instead of a single PB-2000 ? It means that dual PB-1000 will give me 103 dB and PB-2000 103.8 or does dual PB-1000 are more powerful ?
4. PB-2000 have same sound quality at 50% volume or it have a different sound ?
5. I do have a Denon X3100, I will get a proper calibration with dual PB-1000 ? I don't want to upgrade to subEQ HT, I had a very bad experience with X4100.
6. PB-2000 is worth the price for the extra 2hz ? For me it's like 18hz and 19hz will give different moving object in the room. At 20hz and 21hz, a door is vibrating, at 22hz the door stops, but another door started moving. So this should not give me another experience on movies. Even if it did, 18hz and 19hz notes should be at a way higher level to feel another experience.
7. PB-1000 is tighter than PB-2000 ? or does PB-2000 is slightly boomier because it should move the driver harder (greater mass)? This should be a reason why SVS doesn't produce 15 or 18 inch subs, those will be harder to move like a 10 inch sub.

Hi,

That is a lot of questions and I don't know that I can answer them all. In some cases, the answer will be a judgment call, anyway. But I will at least get the discussion started.

First, don't worry about whether a smaller driver is tighter, or less boomy than a larger one. Data-Bass ( the leading authority on subwoofers) has explained why that is actually a myth. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=knowhow&type=1 To briefly summarize, larger drivers require less excursion (movement) to produce the same SPL, so they can sound equally tight or quick compared to smaller ones.

As a side note, some of the very best, best reviewed and tested, and most expensive subs have 15" and 18" drivers. But SVS has gotten such good results, and market share, with 10", 12" and 13.5" drivers that it has chosen to stay where it is for now. Enclosure size and weight, rigidity, amplifier, and tuning frequency are among the other factors besides driver size that affect a sub's performance.

There should be no meaningful difference in sound quality between the PB-1000 and the PB-2000, but the 2000 will go several Hz lower than the 1000.

As far as output goes, a pair of 1000's should be roughly equal to a single 2000, but having a pair of matching subs will typically yield superior performance since they will help with cancellation effects (caused by room modes) which can rob a room of audible bass. On the other hand, the lower extension and greater individual output of the 2000 is an inherent advantage. Personally, my choice would be to buy a PB-2000, and save for a second one, rather than to buy two starter subs, but that is definitely a judgment/preference call.

Whichever sub you are using with your Denon will respond best if it is properly positioned, and a sub crawl can help with that. Once the sub is positioned appropriately, and calibrated by Audyssey, you will probably want to increase the sub trim in your AVR by several decibels. That may be part of what you are missing now compared to your soundbar sub. Audyssey sets sub levels very conservatively. The average post-Audyssey adjustment is probably about +3 to +6db, but some people add even more trim than that. I do.

If you are planning to do that, just adjust the gain on your sub upward during calibration, so that you can get a strong negative trim (-7 to -11) after the calibration. That will give you plenty of room to adjust upward post-calibration, in your AVR, without exceeding about 0.0 in trim level. That will use your sub's amplifier power most effectively without distorting. And getting to those higher trim levels is where the inherent advantage of having a more powerful sub comes in. You can get to the same output with a pair of 1000's, although not with the same low frequency extension, but a pair of 2000's will go both lower and louder. And so on, as you upgrade upwards.

I hope that this is helpful.

Regards,
Mike
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Last edited by mthomas47; 04-16-2016 at 06:58 AM.
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post #23609 of 25960 Old 04-16-2016, 07:06 AM
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Having the sub in between the front speakers has it working harder than normal trying to produce the really low freq's. 95% of the time subs perform better in room corners.
I would always recommend people measure their frequency response when working on sub placement. I don't have either of my subs corner loaded anymore and have a much better frequency response because of it. There is a lot of trial and error in getting the best possible placement, but REW will make it much easier.

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post #23610 of 25960 Old 04-16-2016, 08:51 AM
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I've had an SVS PB 12 NSB for a long time. The driver is worn out. I bought this thing even before there was some driver update. I don't remember all the details. Just that its been a long time friend and now its not got much left to give.

SVS can send me a replacement driver and I need a new speaker grille while I'm at it.

But thinking its time to take advantage of other improvements.

And here's where I'm going.

What's with the dang LED SVS on the new ported PB12's? Yes I know you can put a piece of tape over it but really? No on off switch to disable the LED?

Big thing? Well not on the one hand. But on other hand? Distracting when you are trying to watch a movie? Others have noted the need to black it out for just that.

Yes I know all the endless discussion when comparing new subwoofers and servo this, freq response that, placement here, test result here.... all very important stuff.

But things like distracting LED's are part of the decision making, especially "wife factor", process.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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