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Old 05-04-2016, 09:29 AM
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Well, I've just joined your ranks as an SVS owner. (Well, it's on order anywa....) SB13 Ultra. I believe this is most likely overkill for my situation. Placement for me is unfortunately somewhat constrained, but I hope it will work in the location I intend and performs well. I much as I wanted a JL Audio sub, I just couldn't "Fathom" spending that kind of money at this point. Like the Made in USA part, the look and the control placement, but not the price.

I know it's a bit insane, bit I had an electrician just install two additional 20A circuits in my dwelling - one for an amp (that's rady and connected) and the other circuit is tied off until I can figure out a good place for the sub - fingers crossed - I find a good location using my crappy existing outlets and a really long XLR cable - then the elctrician will come back and drop the second circuit to a new outlet and I'll run in-wall cable to it. At least that's the plan! I know two subs would likely be better than one in my challenging space, but I'm hoping I am satisified with the one - my available space and wallet will thank me.

Wish me luck! I'm sure I'll be bugging you all for info in the near future, so many thanks in advance.
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Old 05-04-2016, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I bought some new speakers a couple months ago, all Klipsch Reference Premier speakers for a 7.2.4 setup, and I've not been happy at all with my bass. The subs I'm currently using are Klipsch SW-112, which don't even sound as good as my old Mirage subwoofer with 2 10" drivers in an isobaric enclosure.

So, I started looking at subs, and I read a lot of good things about the PB-13 Ultra. I asked for some advice in another thread, and everyone had a different opinion and would recommend a different brand saying that I could get more for my money with a PSA or HSU, etc, but after spending another few days researching these other brands, I still decided to go with the PB-13 Ultra in piano black. Since every sub I looked at was quite large, I wanted to at least get something with a nice finish since it's obviously going to be difficult to hide.

I hope I made the right decision, and I hope the PB-13 Ultra will give me the deep rumbling bass you can not only hear but feel as well. One thing that sucks is that I'm also stuck with these 2 other subs. They're not horrible, they just don't produce the deep bass that I'm used to, which leads me into my question.

When I get my PB-13 Ultra, can I hook it up to one of my sub outs on my receiver and keep these other 2 hooked up to my other sub out with a Y splitter or should I only use the PB-13 Ultra? Even though I'm not really satisfied with these 2 subs, I don't have the original boxes they came in, which would make it difficult for me to sell, and even though I'm not happy with them, I think they would probably sound better with the PB-13 Ultra since the PB-13 will give me the lower bass and power I'm missing. These subs would probably help produce more bass, but it would probably be in the 40/50Hz to 100Hz range. Could I hook all of them up together or should I just rely on the PB-13 and get rid of these other 2?

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Hi,

Outstanding! Out of a sense of fairness, I was one of the people advising you to look at other subs before deciding, but I'm glad that you went with the PB-13. Looks matter to me too, and I think that the Ultra in piano black, with the metal grille, is a winner. And I definitely do think it will give you the deep bass that you can both hear and feel.

That's the good news. The bad news is that you should probably just get rid of the Klipsch subs, original boxes or not. Perhaps you can find someone in your community who wants them (Craigslist, maybe) and avoid shipping. If not, there are places where you can get large boxes.

If you combine the weaker subs with your much more powerful Ultra, you will either hold back the Ultra, or risk distorting/damaging the Klipsch subs, or both. Audyssey, for instance, will only set filters to the F3 point of the lesser sub, and then will EQ the subs as one, even with XT-32 and two sub inputs. So, if the Ultra has an in-room F3 of 10 or 11Hz, which is very possible with one port plugged, and the Klipsch subs have an in-room F3 of about 25Hz, then there will be a large gap of more than an octave where you have no EQ at all. And then when you try to crank up your subs, particularly with something like DEQ engaged, you will risk distorting the sound, or damaging the Klipsch subs, as they are unable to keep up. People do use lesser subs in conjunction with more powerful ones, but it takes some effort (with measurements and something like a miniDSP) to make it work well.

I would just enjoy the Ultra, and depending on how things work out, look forward to the time when I could add a second one.

Regards,
Mike

Last edited by mthomas47; 05-04-2016 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 05-04-2016, 10:24 AM
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Finally my PB 1000 was delivered today... cant wait to try it out

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Old 05-04-2016, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Well, I've just joined your ranks as an SVS owner. (Well, it's on order anywa....) SB13 Ultra. I believe this is most likely overkill for my situation. Placement for me is unfortunately somewhat constrained, but I hope it will work in the location I intend and performs well. I much as I wanted a JL Audio sub, I just couldn't "Fathom" spending that kind of money at this point. Like the Made in USA part, the look and the control placement, but not the price.

I know it's a bit insane, bit I had an electrician just install two additional 20A circuits in my dwelling - one for an amp (that's rady and connected) and the other circuit is tied off until I can figure out a good place for the sub - fingers crossed - I find a good location using my crappy existing outlets and a really long XLR cable - then the elctrician will come back and drop the second circuit to a new outlet and I'll run in-wall cable to it. At least that's the plan! I know two subs would likely be better than one in my challenging space, but I'm hoping I am satisified with the one - my available space and wallet will thank me.

Wish me luck! I'm sure I'll be bugging you all for info in the near future, so many thanks in advance.
When it comes to subwoofers ( and lots of other things in home theater ), there is no such thing as " overkill " ( says the guy with twin PC12 + subs ).

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Old 05-04-2016, 07:58 PM
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My theater room is 18'x12'x8' approx.
I currently have ED A2-300 placed on the side of the couch.
I am wondering if I replace Ed with 2x SB-1000 and place them in front just besides the mains, would they be able to provide the bass at least at par (of not more) that my current A2-300.
Why SB-1000 only? I can only have sub with max height 14" in front due to the screen viewable bottom is at that height from ground.
Appreciate your input on this or any other alternative that you may have.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Sub placement is critical for good bass.
Placement for me is unfortunately somewhat constrained. Tiny living room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
After running audyssey what is the sub volume at on the Denon? I have my Ultra volume at -15 and after audyssey my Denon set it to -9. It wasn't loud enough for me so I went to -3 so running 6db's hot.
Having a hard time finding where I could see the settings...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I haven't found a lot of correlation in my room, with my subs, between the SVS recommended gain setting and the actual one. Both position in the room, and distance from the MLP, can be factors in the amount of gain required. What sub are you using, and did you do a sub crawl to try to find the best location for your sub?

As noted, you may be sitting in a null. But it's also entirely possible that you just need to add trim post-Audyssey. People typically find that they need to add 3 to 6db of trim to their sub(s) after running an Audyssey calibration, and some add even more. What was your post-calibration trim setting in your sub, and have you tried increasing it?

The answer to the questions in both paragraphs will help to resolve things.

Regards,
Mike
Due to the very small size of my living room, doing the sub crawl wouldn't matter as the number of places for the sub are VERY limited. Trying to get it to work best with what I got until I move out in the next 2 years...

By adding "trim" do you mean adjusting the vol on the actual sub? HT Detail is in my sig.

Thank you all for the help.

_________________________________________________
Front - B&W CM10 S2 w/ AudioQuest Rocket 44
Rear - B&W CM6 S2 w/ AudioQuest X2 on SureGrip BP
Center - B&W CM Centre 2 S2 w/ Canare 4S11
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Outstanding! Out of a sense of fairness, I was one of the people advising you to look at other subs before deciding, but I'm glad that you went with the PB-13. Looks matter to me too, and I think that the Ultra in piano black, with the metal grille, is a winner. And I definitely do think it will give you the deep bass that you can both hear and feel.

That's the good news. The bad news is that you should probably just get rid of the Klipsch subs, original boxes or not. Perhaps you can find someone in your community who wants them (Craigslist, maybe) and avoid shipping. If not, there are places where you can get large boxes.

If you combine the weaker subs with your much more powerful Ultra, you will either hold back the Ultra, or risk distorting/damaging the Klipsch subs, or both. Audyssey, for instance, will only set filters to the F3 point of the lesser sub, and then will EQ the subs as one, even with XT-32 and two sub inputs. So, if the Ultra has an in-room F3 of 10 or 11Hz, which is very possible with one port plugged, and the Klipsch subs have an in-room F3 of about 25Hz, then there will be a large gap of more than an octave where you have no EQ at all. And then when you try to crank up your subs, particularly with something like DEQ engaged, you will risk distorting the sound, or damaging the Klipsch subs, as they are unable to keep up. People do use lesser subs in conjunction with more powerful ones, but it takes some effort (with measurements and something like a miniDSP) to make it work well.

I would just enjoy the Ultra, and depending on how things work out, look forward to the time when I could add a second one.

Regards,
Mike
Yes, thank you very much for the advice. I guess I could always use these subs in other rooms, where they would add some deeper bass that having no subs at all. I still have 3 older receivers sitting in a closet, so, maybe I could gradually piece together a system that would at least be better than using TV speakers. I'm planning a fairly large remodel sometime over the next 6 months, so I might even be able to incorporate them into a whole home audio system. I'll think of something.

My sub will be here on Wednesday of next week, along with my new TV, which was supposed to be delivered this past Saturday, but apparently demand has been higher than expected because Best Buy couldn't even get my TV within 2 weeks of me buying it. So, I'm really looking forward to next week, new PB-13 Ultra and a new Vizio P75. I went ahead and bought the PB-13 Ultra, even after everyone had to put in their 2 cents on why I should go with a different brand and model. I looked at a couple of other options, but I decided to move forward with the SVS, otherwise, I could picture myself a month from now still researching different brands and models, which I call paralysis through analysis. Again, thanks for the advice. Now, I think I'm finally going to be able to fill the void and add the bass that my system has been lacking.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
Yes, thank you very much for the advice. I guess I could always use these subs in other rooms, where they would add some deeper bass that having no subs at all. I still have 3 older receivers sitting in a closet, so, maybe I could gradually piece together a system that would at least be better than using TV speakers. I'm planning a fairly large remodel sometime over the next 6 months, so I might even be able to incorporate them into a whole home audio system. I'll think of something.

My sub will be here on Wednesday of next week, along with my new TV, which was supposed to be delivered this past Saturday, but apparently demand has been higher than expected because Best Buy couldn't even get my TV within 2 weeks of me buying it. So, I'm really looking forward to next week, new PB-13 Ultra and a new Vizio P75. I went ahead and bought the PB-13 Ultra, even after everyone had to put in their 2 cents on why I should go with a different brand and model. I looked at a couple of other options, but I decided to move forward with the SVS, otherwise, I could picture myself a month from now still researching different brands and models, which I call paralysis through analysis. Again, thanks for the advice. Now, I think I'm finally going to be able to fill the void and add the bass that my system has been lacking.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

You are very welcome! I look forward to hearing your impressions of the Ultra. It's also fun to experience the excitement of new displays and subs vicariously.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I went ahead and bought the PB-13 Ultra, even after everyone had to put in their 2 cents on why I should go with a different brand and model. I looked at a couple of other options, but I decided to move forward with the SVS, otherwise, I could picture myself a month from now still researching different brands and models, which I call paralysis through analysis. Again, thanks for the advice. Now, I think I'm finally going to be able to fill the void and add the bass that my system has been lacking.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
I am pretty sure that you will be very happy with the PB13 Ultra. I know that there are other subs out there that get rave reviews on AVS, but I do not recall hearing any negative opinions about PB-13 Ultra's when one looks at them by themselves for what they are. Enjoy your new sub and let us know how your new Visio turns out to be as well!

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Old 05-05-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SodomySquirrel View Post
Having a hard time finding where I could see the settings...


Due to the very small size of my living room, doing the sub crawl wouldn't matter as the number of places for the sub are VERY limited. Trying to get it to work best with what I got until I move out in the next 2 years...

By adding "trim" do you mean adjusting the vol on the actual sub? HT Detail is in my sig.

Thank you all for the help.

You are very welcome! It takes a little while to get used to a new AVR, but you should be able to look at your various receiver settings on-screen. You may need to scroll through your menu a few times to familiarize yourself with your setting options. I have to do that whenever I get a new AVR.

As a general rule, it is best to adjust your sub level either in your Audio Menu or in your Speaker Menu, rather than making adjustments to the sub itself. That makes it easier to keep track of things, and lets you use your remote for convenience. If Audyssey sets your trim level at -9, and you adjust your sub trim in your AVR to about -3, that would be considered pretty typical.

Just experiment a little and if you are unsure of something, there will always be someone willing to help. That's one of the things I really like about AVS, because we all need assistance at times.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:40 AM
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I think what I'll do is wait for pricing and then either get the amp fixed (if even possible) or else get a new amp.
The replacement Sledge STA-1000D amp to replace my dead BASH for my PB13-Ultra is reasonably priced (Canada). So, I'm going to get a new amp. The nice warranty seals the deal.

Now I just need my speaker mounts to arrive to complete my 5.1.2 Atmos setup. I'm almost feeling a little bit of withdrawl with "just" a 5.0 setup at the moment. Looking forward to watching Mad Max: Fury Road (Atmos) on Blu-ray soon.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
My theater room is 18'x12'x8' approx.
I currently have ED A2-300 placed on the side of the couch.
I am wondering if I replace Ed with 2x SB-1000 and place them in front just besides the mains, would they be able to provide the bass at least at par (of not more) that my current A2-300.
Why SB-1000 only? I can only have sub with max height 14" in front due to the screen viewable bottom is at that height from ground.
Appreciate your input on this or any other alternative that you may have.
My theater is roughly the same size. I'm using a PC-12 Plus and a PC-13 Ultra, which I'll admit might be a small amount of overkill (don't tell my wife!). I would suggest that you look at the SVS cylinder subs. One of the advantages is that they can be laid on their side. My Plus is standing upright behind my couch, but my Ultra is laying on it's side under the screen. The flexibility of being able to lay the sub on its side is a huge reason that I ended up going with SVS, otherwise I'm not sure I would have had the room for large subs.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
My theater room is 18'x12'x8' approx.
I currently have ED A2-300 placed on the side of the couch.
I am wondering if I replace Ed with 2x SB-1000 and place them in front just besides the mains, would they be able to provide the bass at least at par (of not more) that my current A2-300.
Why SB-1000 only? I can only have sub with max height 14" in front due to the screen viewable bottom is at that height from ground.
Appreciate your input on this or any other alternative that you may have.

Hi,

I tried to find some verified specs, or bench tests of the A2-300 for comparison purposes, but no luck. One website claimed 18Hz to 100Hz +/- 3db. With only 200 watts, though, I am more than a little bit skeptical. Allen's advice to consider cylinders (16.5" diameter) which could be laid on their sides might be a good idea. That would give you a number of power/price choices.

Two sealed subs might be okay for your room alright, but the SB-1000 is only a 10" sub with a 300 watt amp. My guess is that two of them would probably give you at least equivalent performance, considering that your A2-300 was nearfield, but I don't know how much of an upgrade in output it would be. It should be an upgrade in frequency response, though, in any event.

One of the nice things about SVS is that you can order a pair of subs risk free. I might try a pair of SB-1000's, listen hard for a couple of weeks, and if I weren't satisfied, try a couple of cylinders laid on their sides.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: I just re-read my post and it doesn't really make very good sense. If the 14.5" height of an SB-2000 is too high, then the 16.5" height of a cylinder laid on its side won't work very well either. No chance that you could raise your screen another inch from the floor if the SB-1000's aren't quite enough?

Last edited by mthomas47; 05-05-2016 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I tried to find some verified specs, or bench tests of the A2-300 for comparison purposes, but no luck. One website claimed 18Hz to 100Hz +/- 3db. With only 200 watts, though, I am more than a little bit skeptical. Allen's advice to consider cylinders (16.5" diameter) which could be laid on their sides might be a good idea. That would give you a number of power/price choices.

Two sealed subs might be okay for your room alright, but the SB-1000 is only a 10" sub with a 300 watt amp. My guess is that two of them would probably give you at least equivalent performance, considering that your A2-300 was nearfield, but I don't know how much of an upgrade in output it would be. It should be an upgrade in frequency response, though, in any event.

One of the nice things about SVS is that you can order a pair of subs risk free. I might try a pair of SB-1000's, listen hard for a couple of weeks, and if I weren't satisfied, try a couple of cylinders laid on their sides.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: I just re-read my post and it doesn't really make very good sense. If the 14.5" height of an SB-2000 is too high, then the 16.5" height of a cylinder laid on its side won't work very well either. No chance that you could raise your screen another inch from the floor if the SB-1000's aren't quite enough?
The SB1000 actually has a 12" driver.
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:09 PM
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The SB1000 actually has a 12" driver.

I had better quit while I'm behind.
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I tried to find some verified specs, or bench tests of the A2-300 for comparison purposes, but no luck. One website claimed 18Hz to 100Hz +/- 3db. With only 200 watts, though, I am more than a little bit skeptical. Allen's advice to consider cylinders (16.5" diameter) which could be laid on their sides might be a good idea. That would give you a number of power/price choices.

Two sealed subs might be okay for your room alright, but the SB-1000 is only a 10" sub with a 300 watt amp. My guess is that two of them would probably give you at least equivalent performance, considering that your A2-300 was nearfield, but I don't know how much of an upgrade in output it would be. It should be an upgrade in frequency response, though, in any event.

One of the nice things about SVS is that you can order a pair of subs risk free. I might try a pair of SB-1000's, listen hard for a couple of weeks, and if I weren't satisfied, try a couple of cylinders laid on their sides.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: I just re-read my post and it doesn't really make very good sense. If the 14.5" height of an SB-2000 is too high, then the 16.5" height of a cylinder laid on its side won't work very well either.No chance that you could raise your screen another inch from the floor if the SB-1000's aren't quite enough?
PC on it's side could definitely work. It won't be 16.5" high flush to the wall...it will taper down approaching the wall since it's a cylinder and not a box. Depending on your seating height, distance to the screen and sub distance from wall (on its side), the angles may work well. Take some measurements and see if it's an option. I have dual PC-2000 subs and absolutely love them.

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Old 05-05-2016, 04:01 PM
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Hi,

I tried to find some verified specs, or bench tests of the A2-300 for comparison purposes, but no luck. One website claimed 18Hz to 100Hz +/- 3db. With only 200 watts, though, I am more than a little bit skeptical. Allen's advice to consider cylinders (16.5" diameter) which could be laid on their sides might be a good idea. That would give you a number of power/price choices.

Two sealed subs might be okay for your room alright, but the SB-1000 is only a 10" sub with a 300 watt amp. My guess is that two of them would probably give you at least equivalent performance, considering that your A2-300 was nearfield, but I don't know how much of an upgrade in output it would be. It should be an upgrade in frequency response, though, in any event.

One of the nice things about SVS is that you can order a pair of subs risk free. I might try a pair of SB-1000's, listen hard for a couple of weeks, and if I weren't satisfied, try a couple of cylinders laid on their sides.

Regards,
Mike

Edit: I just re-read my post and it doesn't really make very good sense. If the 14.5" height of an SB-2000 is too high, then the 16.5" height of a cylinder laid on its side won't work very well either. No chance that you could raise your screen another inch from the floor if the SB-1000's aren't quite enough?
You do have good points. I can go for the cylinders as well, as a matter of fact I would prefer them over the small cube.
Though I can not place them upfront (laid down), I amy be able to place them forward of mains (within mains and MLP) or may be behind the couch.
And BTW, SB 1000 is 12" and not 10" (I guess it's the PB 1000 that is 10").
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Old 05-05-2016, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
My theater is roughly the same size. I'm using a PC-12 Plus and a PC-13 Ultra, which I'll admit might be a small amount of overkill (don't tell my wife!). I would suggest that you look at the SVS cylinder subs. One of the advantages is that they can be laid on their side. My Plus is standing upright behind my couch, but my Ultra is laying on it's side under the screen. The flexibility of being able to lay the sub on its side is a huge reason that I ended up going with SVS, otherwise I'm not sure I would have had the room for large subs.
Thanks.
I don't mind cylinder(s). But then I will have to place them at different location(s), which is not a big issue. As a matter of fact I would jump on the PC-12NSD deal if it pops again.
This was may second thought to go with the cubes and set them upfront instead.
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Old 05-05-2016, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thanks.
I don't mind cylinder(s). But then I will have to place them at different location(s), which is not a big issue. As a matter of fact I would jump on the PC-12NSD deal if it pops again.
This was may second thought to go with the cubes and set them upfront instead.
If you're going with dual subs you would likely be better off with them at different locations anyway.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
If you're going with dual subs you would likely be better off with them at different locations anyway.
There is a very tempting sale of JBL 560p. But am not sure how it stacks up with SVS SB-1000 (or 2000) or for that matter PC-xx
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:01 PM
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What should I be looking for in a sub that will be just used for a music setup?
Any recommendations under 1k

Ive got some stuff
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by baron2 View Post
What should I be looking for in a sub that will be just used for a music setup?

Any recommendations under 1k


Didn't you buy a PB12 Plus?

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BASEMENT SETUP- SAMSUNG UN466500- ENERGY 50'S L/R- ENERGY RC LCR- 2X SVS SB12 NSD- DENON-AVR-3311CI- PS3 -APPLETV- MINI GENIE
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
There is a very tempting sale of JBL 560p. But am not sure how it stacks up with SVS SB-1000 (or 2000) or for that matter PC-xx
I would stick with the SVS over the JBL, I would be willing to bet that is a battle that SVS is going to win every time. Out of curiosity, why not look at some of the ported options? You get more output with a ported sub and there is very little evidence to suggest that a sealed sub is any cleaner then ported, as long as you're not pushing the sub so hard to generate chuffing.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:22 AM
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Didn't you buy a PB12 Plus?
Yes I have dual PB12 Plus's that will arrive on Monday for my theatre room . I have a separate music setup that's why I was
asking.

Ive got some stuff
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:24 AM
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Loving my PB-1000,, just a small question,, the Volume control how low or soft its set at ( stronger / weaker bass),that just do to a persons preference right?,,

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Old 05-06-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
There is a very tempting sale of JBL 560p. But am not sure how it stacks up with SVS SB-1000 (or 2000) or for that matter PC-xx

It is hard to find specs on JBL subs. Data-Bass lists specs for the 4445c, which had an 18" driver, and which only did 95.9db at 20Hz, and showed nothing at all below that, so it must have dropped like a rock. That makes me a little skeptical of JBL's claim of 22Hz with the 560p, particularly with an amp that peaks at only 500 watts. But giving the JBL every benefit of the doubt, it might be the equal of an SB-1000. But no more than that, and certainly not the equal of a ported 12" SVS sub.

To fully enjoy the LFE in modern movies, most people think it is important to be able to get under 20Hz at fairly significant volumes. If I could find a way to acquire two cylinders, I think that would be a better way to go.
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:02 AM
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Yes I have dual PB12 Plus's that will arrive on Monday for my theatre room . I have a separate music setup that's why I was
asking.

Hi,

I can't remember, but didn't you have an older sub that might be re-purposed for your separate music room? The requirements for a music sub are a little different, IMO, simply because SPL down to and below 20Hz is not important in a music system. People sometimes use the example of a pipe organ piece that can go down to 16Hz, but unless you are really into pipe organs, not much music content goes below about 30Hz, and most of it is higher than that. Just the opposite of some LFE content in action movies.

So, for a music sub in a separate room, I would be looking for a sub that is stronger at about 40Hz and above. Typically, that will be a sealed sub. An SB-2000 would be a good choice if you wanted to stay with SVS, or a Rythmik sub, maybe an F8 or F12 series. Velodyne always had a popular reputation for music, but I think they are pricey. Really any sub that can play accurately down to about 30 or 35Hz would work pretty well for music. So, testing something you already have, including one of your new PB-12 Pluses, might help to give you an idea.

Regards,
Mike
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:13 AM
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Hi guys,

I'm thinking about picking up a PB13-Ultra to replace my old Klipsch KSW-15, which doesn't really do much of anything.

My room layout is challenging so say the least. Here's the layout of the 1st floor:



The red is the LCD screen, the green are the speakers and the orange represent the current sub.

So the room is 24' long by 13' wide. Ceilings are 9'. The challenges are:

Windows and glass door covers 2 walls completely
Large 10' x 7' opening in center of 3rd wall into large 24' x 20' living room

View from behind main listening position. Note that I have acoustic blocks in the corners and on the wall above the LCD.



View towards back of room: (yes I know it's a mess. Got 3 and 5 year old girls...)



View from main living room into sunroom/theater room. Here you can also see the current placement of the KLW-15 sub. My plan was to locate the PB13-Ultra in the same spot.



TV is LG 4k 84"
AVR is Denon X3000
Mains are Klipsch KLF30s
Center is Klipsch KSB-C6
Surrounds are Klipsch KSB 3.1

I know the location of the surround speakers are pretty terrible for a 7.1 layout, but I don't really have many options.

I thinking about upgrading the Denon X3000 to a X6200W and do a 7.1.4 setup with 4 in ceiling speakers, but I'm not sure how that will play out with the current surrounds already being located at the top of the walls instead of at ear level. Just don't know if I can change that given the room layout.

Was also looking at the SVS Ultra Towers, Center and surrounds, but again, the room layout leaves a lot to be desired, so maybe I should not worry about that for now.

So will a single PB13 be enough? Should I look at other options?

Is the current location on the middle of the window wall decent, or should I look at other options?

This will mainly be for watching movies as opposed to listening to music.

My main theater is in the basement, and have a pair of TC Sound 18" drivers in DIY cabinets and about 4000W driving them. I really miss the LFE on the upstairs system, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to add at least a taste of that there.
Your sub seems like it's at the midway point in your room. That's not a good place for it. Move your sub to the front 1/3 of your room and tell us if it sounds better.
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:19 AM
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Hi,

I can't remember, but didn't you have an older sub that might be re-purposed for your separate music room? The requirements for a music sub are a little different, IMO, simply because SPL down to and below 20Hz is not important in a music system. People sometimes use the example of a pipe organ piece that can go down to 16Hz, but unless you are really into pipe organs, not much music content goes below about 30Hz, and most of it is higher than that. Just the opposite of some LFE content in action movies.

So, for a music sub in a separate room, I would be looking for a sub that is stronger at about 40Hz and above. Typically, that will be a sealed sub. An SB-2000 would be a good choice if you wanted to stay with SVS, or a Rythmik sub, maybe an F8 or F12 series. Velodyne always had a popular reputation for music, but I think they are pricey. Really any sub that can play accurately down to about 30 or 35Hz would work pretty well for music. So, testing something you already have, including one of your new PB-12 Pluses, might help to give you an idea.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike. Yes I do have a couple of options with subs I already have. Here are the options I have now and also what I would like for a comparison from SVS. I have Dual Energy S12.3 or I can use my Three Energy Veritas VSW-10 subs My other option I was wondering how it might compare to my 2 options I have now would be one SB13 Ultra.

I have read about people using duals for a music setup only but what about my option of using my Three VSW-10 subs?
True, if I found I only needed one of the PB12 Plus's in theatre room I could use one in my music setup. I will more than likely end up using both for the theatre setup though.

You mentioned a SB-2000 which could be a good choice on its own. With that said one SB-2000 may not be be better than what options I have in the house now.

Ive got some stuff

Last edited by baron2; 05-06-2016 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by baron2 View Post
Thanks Mike. Yes I do have a couple of options with subs I already have. Here are the options I have now and also what I would like for a comparison from SVS. I have Dual Energy S12.3 or I can use my Three Energy Veritas VSW-10 subs My other option I was wondering how it might compare to my 2 options I have now would be one SB13 Ultra.

I have read about people using duals for a music setup only but what about my option of using my Three VSW-10 subs?
True, if I found I only needed one of the PB12 Plus's in theatre room I could use one in my music setup. I will more than likely end up using both for the theatre setup though.

You are welcome! I think that your three 10" subs might work great for music as long as they are accurate, as most music simply won't put the same low frequency demands on them that modern movies will. The advantage of using multiple subs for music is similar to movies, although output is generally less of an issue. But from a frequency response standpoint, multiple bass sources are nearly always preferable.

Incidentally, I wasn't suggesting that you put one of your Pluses in your music room permanently--just that you test it in there against your older subs as a way to find out what you are looking for. I don't often say this for fear that mobs will form with torches and pitchforks, but I don't use my subs at all for music. I have multiple full range speakers which serve me very well. Then for movies, I add in my center and my subs, bass manage everything, and I'm good to go. And I run my subs very hot for movies. So, for me at least, I can draw a clear distinction between how much bass I need for music, versus how much I need for movies. I know that that's a minority viewpoint, but I mention it in the context of giving your three 10" subs a fair try. They might work well for music.
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