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post #24331 of 24341 Old Today, 12:05 PM
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just the addition of an EQ and some roomcorrection is a big change in soundquality, for the resonance of some frequencies and to avoid a lot of reflections and other disturbances.
i heared the pb2000 at a friends house and it does come with some distortion on loud levels, i got myself a pb-13 ultra and by time it starts to distort i still can't figure out if it is my eardrums or the sub that causes it.. the pb13 is insane loud :-D
I have my new house treated with special acoustic wallpaper (Intervos Acoustic IsoScan 52000) and a special sound dampening PU floor now. These 2 additions reduced echo and roomreflections with about 15dB. before it sounded like a church where one could clap hands and it be like an caveman's cave, now it's allmost deadsilent after clapping.
I was looking into putting some basstraps in the corner now and i wonder if any of you guys have a suggestion on how to start with these basstraps, like what material and size need i use and where to put it exactly ? i added some pics of the situation
My yamaha amp has YPAO R.S.C. 3D and it is not much of use for finetuning the sub EQ , the build-in DSP in the PB13 Ultra is also not sufficient for me, hence i like to try the basstraps as a hopefully helpfull addition. problem is around 45-55hz and 95-110hz. like a resonance is somewhere in the room.
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Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
Yamaha RX-A3040, SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
4 mm el cheapo wire / Samsung UE-ES8000S TV+evo 2014 / Optoma DH-1015 Sony PS3

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post #24332 of 24341 Old Today, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
1. My room is a small dedicated home theater. It's roughly 11.5 x 16 with ceilings that range from 8-10 feet based on the vaulting. Due to the vault I've never calculated the volume. The room is sealed, so I'm not sharing my space.
Hi Allen, Assuming the slope of your vaulted ceiling doesn't change assign a value of 9' for the height. If you draw it out the triangle from 8' to 9' will equal the volume of the triangle from 9' to 10'... or imagine a pivot point at 9', rotating the line from 8' up to 9' will bring the 10' point down to 9'... So same volume as a 11.5' x 16' x 9' or 1,656 cubic feet, if the slope does change, i.e. two different slopes the difference would not be significant, IMO..
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post #24333 of 24341 Old Today, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
just the addition of an EQ and some roomcorrection is a big change in soundquality, for the resonance of some frequencies and to avoid a lot of reflections and other disturbances.
i heared the pb2000 at a friends house and it does come with some distortion on loud levels, i got myself a pb-13 ultra and by time it starts to distort i still can't figure out if it is my eardrums or the sub that causes it.. the pb13 is insane loud :-D
I have my new house treated with special acoustic wallpaper (Intervos Acoustic IsoScan 52000) and a special sound dampening PU floor now. These 2 additions reduced echo and roomreflections with about 15dB. before it sounded like a church where one could clap hands and it be like an caveman's cave, now it's allmost deadsilent after clapping.
I was looking into putting some basstraps in the corner now and i wonder if any of you guys have a suggestion on how to start with these basstraps, like what material and size need i use and where to put it exactly ? i added some pics of the situation
My yamaha amp has YPAO R.S.C. 3D and it is not much of use for finetuning the sub EQ , the build-in DSP in the PB13 Ultra is also not sufficient for me, hence i like to try the basstraps as a hopefully helpfull addition. problem is around 45-55hz and 95-110hz. like a resonance is somewhere in the room.

Hi,

In my opinion, the corners of the room would be the best places to start, as that is where long waves are likeliest to collect and cancel (or partly cancel) each other. And the corner created by a wall and a stair coming together can also be a source of low frequency distortion, or resonance, as you described it.

Good bass traps are typically at least 4" thick with a combination of compressed fiberglass and a plywood backing. The plywood backing should have openings in it, to allow the bass trap to benefit from an air gap. There are corner traps (about 13" deep) that you can order from companies such as GIK or ATS Acoustics. And you can also use a 4" open-back panel, diagonally across a corner, with a natural air gap created by the diagonal. In either case, the air gap is important in lowering the frequency attenuation of the trap.

In theory, a good bass trap will provide significant attenuation down to about 60Hz, but I have seen measured responses with good effects down to as low as 30Hz, so I suspect that the effects are somewhat variable. I definitely think that it would be worth your while to explore using some. One of the nice things about the kind of panels I am suggesting, is that you can easily move them around to find out where they work best, unlike wall panels that you attach directly to a wall.

Looking at your pictures, I am assuming that you are also going to put some kind of rug (preferably with a rubber pad) on the floor. That will help a lot with higher frequency reflections. The clap test is helpful for testing for mid-range ringing artifacts, but if you want to test for higher frequency ringing, you can try another homemade test. Take a piece of thin brass (a bell would be ideal) or a piece of fine crystal, and ding it sharply with your fingernail. If the sound persists, rather than being a single sharp sound, the ringing of the room will interfere with some musical instruments and some frequencies. Trying that as a before-and-after test, while listening to instruments such as cymbals, chimes, or bells, can be very revealing.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24334 of 24341 Old Today, 01:41 PM
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Good points you make about the ringing effects. I have to wait till wednesday before i can enter the house, due to the floor that needs to fully dry. I will do this tests then so i have an idea how it all works out in reality. the specs of the floor and wallpaper are pretty decent. here is the graph of the wallpaper http://www.intervos.nl/documenten/52000IsoScan.pdf
for the floor i have to ask them if they have one. They only say it meets the specs of 15dB noise reduction. it was in fact ment to reduce walking and other booming sounds to the room below it, i figured it then probably also reduces inwards my room too (if it doesn't then i still have a nice floor lol). the difference between without and with the acoustic wallpaper is night and day. i checked at my neighbours house (same house as mine) , they have only put paint on the wall and have a laminate floor with a rug (small square carpet ?)on it and i had just the concrete floor and the wallpaper at that time. It is definatly noticable that it has a lot more room-reflection then my livingroom had before the PU floor was put in.
The stairs is indeed a problem, i was thinking to put the leftovers of the wallpaper (about 1m x 16m) on the stairs and the wooden casing in the middle of it, but this won't help for the bass freqs. probably a combination of wallpaper and basstrap will make it a good amount better then it is now.
I found some rockwool 12cm heat-insulation , would this work for the basstrap ?
edit: now that i think of it.. these bulletproof stuff consist of multiple layers which greatly reduce the impact/energy of the bullet. would this principle not work for basstraps as well ?

Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
Yamaha RX-A3040, SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
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post #24335 of 24341 Old Today, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by murlidher View Post
Please explain further. What are the speakers and the amp driving them? What all you did, etc. Thanks

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In your AVR setup you can set your speakers to large or small. You always want it set to small from what I read it has to do with the crossover settings.
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post #24336 of 24341 Old Today, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gumby5100 View Post
In your AVR setup you can set your speakers to large or small. You always want it set to small from what I read it has to do with the crossover settings.
small is better because the AVR in most cases doesn't have enough power to run all speakers on large. The small setting does XO on both sub and speakers, whereas the large setting only XO the sub. Preferably an AVR does XO separatly on the sub and on the speakers , but most of them do just one XO for both speakers+sub. Best case would be having the speakers on large and sub xo on 120hz to fully enjoy the sound as intended , but in reality it costs a ****load of money to do it and everything needs to be EQ'ed to flat response, also you need very large speakers that transients the whole audio range from 20hz-20khz. so yeah small is the way to go 99% of the time.

Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
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post #24337 of 24341 Old Today, 02:23 PM
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I'm considering returning my dual sb 2000s for dual pb/pc 2000s for more output on movies/games.

I understand the pb 2000 is more expensive to manufacture than the pc 2000, making it a finer product to own... But the pc is downfiring so I'm wondering if it would have more tactile feel. Does anyone know?

I have a "bright" room with carpet floors(isolation feet would be no benefit).
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post #24338 of 24341 Old Today, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
I'm considering returning my dual sb 2000s for dual pb/pc 2000s for more output on movies/games.
I understand the pb 2000 is more expensive to manufacture than the pc 2000, making it a finer product to own... But the pc is downfiring so I'm wondering if it would have more tactile feel. Does anyone know?
I have a "bright" room with carpet floors(isolation feet would be no benefit).
sealed is more tight bass , ported goes a bit lower if you have adequate room size. downfiring does not make much difference. so for explosions the ported has a bit of advantage, for the tactile feel the sealed is better. games often don't use freqs below 20hz, some movies do. if you want to feel the airpressure of the explosions then a single pb13 will give a lot more output then 2 dual 2000s. its more what u prefer , i would stick with the sb2000s unless you want to exchange them for pb12 plus or pb13 ultra.

Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
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post #24339 of 24341 Old Today, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
I'm considering returning my dual sb 2000s for dual pb/pc 2000s for more output on movies/games.

I understand the pb 2000 is more expensive to manufacture than the pc 2000, making it a finer product to own... But the pc is downfiring so I'm wondering if it would have more tactile feel. Does anyone know?

I have a "bright" room with carpet floors(isolation feet would be no benefit).
Hi Sam,

I guess it depends on what you mean by tactile feel. Most of the chest punch is in the mid-bass 50Hz to 100Hz range. The ported and sealed subs would be pretty close at about 60Hz, and the sealed subs would have a slight edge above that. But the ported subs would have a lot more output below 50 Hz, all the way down to their tuning point, and there is tactile feel associated with low bass frequencies too.

I agree that the down firing driver wouldn't make any difference at all. If your credit card can swing it, I might suggest ordering the two PB2000s (or PC2000s) before returning the SB's. That way you could try the ported subs for a few days before deciding which ones to return. I definitely think that you will get more overall bass output with the ported subs than you will with the SB's.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24340 of 24341 Old Today, 06:32 PM
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Hi all,

I just made an extremely stupid mistake when integrating a new component into my system. I had to unhook my dual PC13U cylinders to move some things, and when I re-hooked them back up I accidentally connected the low level output on one of the subs. When watching a movie, I noticed that the LFE was next to non-existent, so I started trouble shooting using a calbration disk (to make sure I was getting LFE from the source). My question is, did I damage anything by pumping a signal into an output jack? Please help!!! I am in panic mode right now (they are, after all, my babies)... Thanks!

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post #24341 of 24341 Old Today, 07:43 PM
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@mthomas47 @AllenA07 @DaJoJo

Appreciate your feedback to my questions. There is no doubt I will minimally select duals for my upgrade. The dual PB-2000's have served me very well with respect to SQ and output. I'm only upgrading as a result of upgraditis to gain a bit more output. My listening levels are akin to yours Mike...i.e. -20 to -10 MV is typical. From time to time, I've pushed to -5 and rarely to reference for momentary demo purposes...but never to the point of distortion. I guess you could characterize me as a bass lover but not a basshead. I'm happy with very tight and very clean bass at -10 MV from about 15-17 Hz and up. I recall someone on these threads commenting that 99.5% of meaningful movie ULF is above 20 Hz with the remaining 0.5% below. I envy those who have 0.5% capability but I personally don't have the desire to chase single digit response...so deep extension is not a priority for me.

On a different note, I think I've been very fortunate with my room acoustics as I prefer not to engage RC. In the past, I've utilized XT, XT32, YPAO, and MCACC and more often than not have turned them off. To my ears, movies and music sound terrific. To REW, the room is relatively flat with a few minor peaks where I like them. Because of this, I've never pursued acoustic treatments. I also understand that my room cannot be perfect...acoustically speaking. However, my screen wall is carpeted, left wall is full of DVD's, and my right wall is carpeted as opposed to painted...acoustic treatments at key reflection points in disguise by accident...maybe?

It's very obvious to me that your collective experiences/recommendations would be to devote some effort to acoustic treatment considerations. As I'm comfortable with multiple subwoofers, setup, and their proper placement, I also feel acoustic treatments are where I could make improvements. To this end, I will do some studying and research...thanks guys!

Lastly, I've had two generations and types of SVS subwoofers and have been very pleased for all the reasons why everyone speaks so highly of the company, their products, and customer service. Consequently, my first consideration and at the top of my short list for an upgrade are the PB-13 Ultras. However, most enthusiasts are aware that competitive products in terms of both price and performance have emerged in the past few years. It is my intention to audition my short list, beginning with the Ultras, in the upcoming weeks and post any findings that may be of interest. I would also welcome any comments from current owners who did similar comparisons before selecting the Ultra.

Panasonic: PT-AE3000 Front Projector
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