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post #24331 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 12:05 PM
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just the addition of an EQ and some roomcorrection is a big change in soundquality, for the resonance of some frequencies and to avoid a lot of reflections and other disturbances.
i heared the pb2000 at a friends house and it does come with some distortion on loud levels, i got myself a pb-13 ultra and by time it starts to distort i still can't figure out if it is my eardrums or the sub that causes it.. the pb13 is insane loud :-D
I have my new house treated with special acoustic wallpaper (Intervos Acoustic IsoScan 52000) and a special sound dampening PU floor now. These 2 additions reduced echo and roomreflections with about 15dB. before it sounded like a church where one could clap hands and it be like an caveman's cave, now it's allmost deadsilent after clapping.
I was looking into putting some basstraps in the corner now and i wonder if any of you guys have a suggestion on how to start with these basstraps, like what material and size need i use and where to put it exactly ? i added some pics of the situation
My yamaha amp has YPAO R.S.C. 3D and it is not much of use for finetuning the sub EQ , the build-in DSP in the PB13 Ultra is also not sufficient for me, hence i like to try the basstraps as a hopefully helpfull addition. problem is around 45-55hz and 95-110hz. like a resonance is somewhere in the room.
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Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
Yamaha RX-A3040, SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
4 mm el cheapo wire / Samsung UE-ES8000S TV+evo 2014 / Optoma DH-1015 Sony PS3

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post #24332 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
1. My room is a small dedicated home theater. It's roughly 11.5 x 16 with ceilings that range from 8-10 feet based on the vaulting. Due to the vault I've never calculated the volume. The room is sealed, so I'm not sharing my space.
Hi Allen, Assuming the slope of your vaulted ceiling doesn't change assign a value of 9' for the height. If you draw it out the triangle from 8' to 9' will equal the volume of the triangle from 9' to 10'... or imagine a pivot point at 9', rotating the line from 8' up to 9' will bring the 10' point down to 9'... So same volume as a 11.5' x 16' x 9' or 1,656 cubic feet, if the slope does change, i.e. two different slopes the difference would not be significant, IMO..
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post #24333 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
just the addition of an EQ and some roomcorrection is a big change in soundquality, for the resonance of some frequencies and to avoid a lot of reflections and other disturbances.
i heared the pb2000 at a friends house and it does come with some distortion on loud levels, i got myself a pb-13 ultra and by time it starts to distort i still can't figure out if it is my eardrums or the sub that causes it.. the pb13 is insane loud :-D
I have my new house treated with special acoustic wallpaper (Intervos Acoustic IsoScan 52000) and a special sound dampening PU floor now. These 2 additions reduced echo and roomreflections with about 15dB. before it sounded like a church where one could clap hands and it be like an caveman's cave, now it's allmost deadsilent after clapping.
I was looking into putting some basstraps in the corner now and i wonder if any of you guys have a suggestion on how to start with these basstraps, like what material and size need i use and where to put it exactly ? i added some pics of the situation
My yamaha amp has YPAO R.S.C. 3D and it is not much of use for finetuning the sub EQ , the build-in DSP in the PB13 Ultra is also not sufficient for me, hence i like to try the basstraps as a hopefully helpfull addition. problem is around 45-55hz and 95-110hz. like a resonance is somewhere in the room.

Hi,

In my opinion, the corners of the room would be the best places to start, as that is where long waves are likeliest to collect and cancel (or partly cancel) each other. And the corner created by a wall and a stair coming together can also be a source of low frequency distortion, or resonance, as you described it.

Good bass traps are typically at least 4" thick with a combination of compressed fiberglass and a plywood backing. The plywood backing should have openings in it, to allow the bass trap to benefit from an air gap. There are corner traps (about 13" deep) that you can order from companies such as GIK or ATS Acoustics. And you can also use a 4" open-back panel, diagonally across a corner, with a natural air gap created by the diagonal. In either case, the air gap is important in lowering the frequency attenuation of the trap.

In theory, a good bass trap will provide significant attenuation down to about 60Hz, but I have seen measured responses with good effects down to as low as 30Hz, so I suspect that the effects are somewhat variable. I definitely think that it would be worth your while to explore using some. One of the nice things about the kind of panels I am suggesting, is that you can easily move them around to find out where they work best, unlike wall panels that you attach directly to a wall.

Looking at your pictures, I am assuming that you are also going to put some kind of rug (preferably with a rubber pad) on the floor. That will help a lot with higher frequency reflections. The clap test is helpful for testing for mid-range ringing artifacts, but if you want to test for higher frequency ringing, you can try another homemade test. Take a piece of thin brass (a bell would be ideal) or a piece of fine crystal, and ding it sharply with your fingernail. If the sound persists, rather than being a single sharp sound, the ringing of the room will interfere with some musical instruments and some frequencies. Trying that as a before-and-after test, while listening to instruments such as cymbals, chimes, or bells, can be very revealing.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24334 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 01:41 PM
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Good points you make about the ringing effects. I have to wait till wednesday before i can enter the house, due to the floor that needs to fully dry. I will do this tests then so i have an idea how it all works out in reality. the specs of the floor and wallpaper are pretty decent. here is the graph of the wallpaper http://www.intervos.nl/documenten/52000IsoScan.pdf
for the floor i have to ask them if they have one. They only say it meets the specs of 15dB noise reduction. it was in fact ment to reduce walking and other booming sounds to the room below it, i figured it then probably also reduces inwards my room too (if it doesn't then i still have a nice floor lol). the difference between without and with the acoustic wallpaper is night and day. i checked at my neighbours house (same house as mine) , they have only put paint on the wall and have a laminate floor with a rug (small square carpet ?)on it and i had just the concrete floor and the wallpaper at that time. It is definatly noticable that it has a lot more room-reflection then my livingroom had before the PU floor was put in.
The stairs is indeed a problem, i was thinking to put the leftovers of the wallpaper (about 1m x 16m) on the stairs and the wooden casing in the middle of it, but this won't help for the bass freqs. probably a combination of wallpaper and basstrap will make it a good amount better then it is now.
I found some rockwool 12cm heat-insulation , would this work for the basstrap ?
edit: now that i think of it.. these bulletproof stuff consist of multiple layers which greatly reduce the impact/energy of the bullet. would this principle not work for basstraps as well ?

Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
Yamaha RX-A3040, SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
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post #24335 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 01:47 PM
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Please explain further. What are the speakers and the amp driving them? What all you did, etc. Thanks

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In your AVR setup you can set your speakers to large or small. You always want it set to small from what I read it has to do with the crossover settings.
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post #24336 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 02:01 PM
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In your AVR setup you can set your speakers to large or small. You always want it set to small from what I read it has to do with the crossover settings.
small is better because the AVR in most cases doesn't have enough power to run all speakers on large. The small setting does XO on both sub and speakers, whereas the large setting only XO the sub. Preferably an AVR does XO separatly on the sub and on the speakers , but most of them do just one XO for both speakers+sub. Best case would be having the speakers on large and sub xo on 120hz to fully enjoy the sound as intended , but in reality it costs a ****load of money to do it and everything needs to be EQ'ed to flat response, also you need very large speakers that transients the whole audio range from 20hz-20khz. so yeah small is the way to go 99% of the time.

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post #24337 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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I'm considering returning my dual sb 2000s for dual pb/pc 2000s for more output on movies/games.

I understand the pb 2000 is more expensive to manufacture than the pc 2000, making it a finer product to own... But the pc is downfiring so I'm wondering if it would have more tactile feel. Does anyone know?

I have a "bright" room with carpet floors(isolation feet would be no benefit).
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post #24338 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
I'm considering returning my dual sb 2000s for dual pb/pc 2000s for more output on movies/games.
I understand the pb 2000 is more expensive to manufacture than the pc 2000, making it a finer product to own... But the pc is downfiring so I'm wondering if it would have more tactile feel. Does anyone know?
I have a "bright" room with carpet floors(isolation feet would be no benefit).
sealed is more tight bass , ported goes a bit lower if you have adequate room size. downfiring does not make much difference. so for explosions the ported has a bit of advantage, for the tactile feel the sealed is better. games often don't use freqs below 20hz, some movies do. if you want to feel the airpressure of the explosions then a single pb13 will give a lot more output then 2 dual 2000s. its more what u prefer , i would stick with the sb2000s unless you want to exchange them for pb12 plus or pb13 ultra.
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Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz , center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz , sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz , rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz , heights 2x Salora T25i
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post #24339 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
I'm considering returning my dual sb 2000s for dual pb/pc 2000s for more output on movies/games.

I understand the pb 2000 is more expensive to manufacture than the pc 2000, making it a finer product to own... But the pc is downfiring so I'm wondering if it would have more tactile feel. Does anyone know?

I have a "bright" room with carpet floors(isolation feet would be no benefit).
Hi Sam,

I guess it depends on what you mean by tactile feel. Most of the chest punch is in the mid-bass 50Hz to 100Hz range. The ported and sealed subs would be pretty close at about 60Hz, and the sealed subs would have a slight edge above that. But the ported subs would have a lot more output below 50 Hz, all the way down to their tuning point, and there is tactile feel associated with low bass frequencies too.

I agree that the down firing driver wouldn't make any difference at all. If your credit card can swing it, I might suggest ordering the two PB2000s (or PC2000s) before returning the SB's. That way you could try the ported subs for a few days before deciding which ones to return. I definitely think that you will get more overall bass output with the ported subs than you will with the SB's.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24340 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 06:32 PM
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Hi all,

I just made an extremely stupid mistake when integrating a new component into my system. I had to unhook my dual PC13U cylinders to move some things, and when I re-hooked them back up I accidentally connected the low level output on one of the subs. When watching a movie, I noticed that the LFE was next to non-existent, so I started trouble shooting using a calbration disk (to make sure I was getting LFE from the source). My question is, did I damage anything by pumping a signal into an output jack? Please help!!! I am in panic mode right now (they are, after all, my babies)... Thanks!

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post #24341 of 24351 Unread Yesterday, 07:43 PM
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@mthomas47 @AllenA07 @DaJoJo

Appreciate your feedback to my questions. There is no doubt I will minimally select duals for my upgrade. The dual PB-2000's have served me very well with respect to SQ and output. I'm only upgrading as a result of upgraditis to gain a bit more output. My listening levels are akin to yours Mike...i.e. -20 to -10 MV is typical. From time to time, I've pushed to -5 and rarely to reference for momentary demo purposes...but never to the point of distortion. I guess you could characterize me as a bass lover but not a basshead. I'm happy with very tight and very clean bass at -10 MV from about 15-17 Hz and up. I recall someone on these threads commenting that 99.5% of meaningful movie ULF is above 20 Hz with the remaining 0.5% below. I envy those who have 0.5% capability but I personally don't have the desire to chase single digit response...so deep extension is not a priority for me.

On a different note, I think I've been very fortunate with my room acoustics as I prefer not to engage RC. In the past, I've utilized XT, XT32, YPAO, and MCACC and more often than not have turned them off. To my ears, movies and music sound terrific. To REW, the room is relatively flat with a few minor peaks where I like them. Because of this, I've never pursued acoustic treatments. I also understand that my room cannot be perfect...acoustically speaking. However, my screen wall is carpeted, left wall is full of DVD's, and my right wall is carpeted as opposed to painted...acoustic treatments at key reflection points in disguise by accident...maybe?

It's very obvious to me that your collective experiences/recommendations would be to devote some effort to acoustic treatment considerations. As I'm comfortable with multiple subwoofers, setup, and their proper placement, I also feel acoustic treatments are where I could make improvements. To this end, I will do some studying and research...thanks guys!

Lastly, I've had two generations and types of SVS subwoofers and have been very pleased for all the reasons why everyone speaks so highly of the company, their products, and customer service. Consequently, my first consideration and at the top of my short list for an upgrade are the PB-13 Ultras. However, most enthusiasts are aware that competitive products in terms of both price and performance have emerged in the past few years. It is my intention to audition my short list, beginning with the Ultras, in the upcoming weeks and post any findings that may be of interest. I would also welcome any comments from current owners who did similar actual real world comparisons before selecting the Ultra.

Panasonic: PT-AE3000 Front Projector
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Last edited by gene4ht; Yesterday at 07:54 PM. Reason: typo
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post #24342 of 24351 Unread Today, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
Good points you make about the ringing effects. I have to wait till wednesday before i can enter the house, due to the floor that needs to fully dry. I will do this tests then so i have an idea how it all works out in reality. the specs of the floor and wallpaper are pretty decent. here is the graph of the wallpaper http://www.intervos.nl/documenten/52000IsoScan.pdf
for the floor i have to ask them if they have one. They only say it meets the specs of 15dB noise reduction. it was in fact ment to reduce walking and other booming sounds to the room below it, i figured it then probably also reduces inwards my room too (if it doesn't then i still have a nice floor lol). the difference between without and with the acoustic wallpaper is night and day. i checked at my neighbours house (same house as mine) , they have only put paint on the wall and have a laminate floor with a rug (small square carpet ?)on it and i had just the concrete floor and the wallpaper at that time. It is definatly noticable that it has a lot more room-reflection then my livingroom had before the PU floor was put in.
The stairs is indeed a problem, i was thinking to put the leftovers of the wallpaper (about 1m x 16m) on the stairs and the wooden casing in the middle of it, but this won't help for the bass freqs. probably a combination of wallpaper and basstrap will make it a good amount better then it is now.
I found some rockwool 12cm heat-insulation , would this work for the basstrap ?
edit: now that i think of it.. these bulletproof stuff consist of multiple layers which greatly reduce the impact/energy of the bullet. would this principle not work for basstraps as well ?
I think that you could find more knowledgeable sources to ask (call GIK Acoustics, for instance) but yes I do think that 12cm of rockwool, with some sort of backing material (typically plywood) and a large hole in the center would be helpful for bass attenuation. I just don't know how low it would go. I think that commercial traps are made with compressed fiberglass, which gives them more density and a consequently lower frequency effect. But I do know that you can DIY your own. I've just never done it.

Edit: Somebody posted this link on another thread, so I decided to repeat it here. This is an example of compressed glasswool. A couple of thicknesses of this should be excellent for attenuation of bass frequencies.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...berglass-3-lb/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
@mthomas47 @AllenA07 @DaJoJo

Appreciate your feedback to my questions. There is no doubt I will minimally select duals for my upgrade. The dual PB-2000's have served me very well with respect to SQ and output. I'm only upgrading as a result of upgraditis to gain a bit more output. My listening levels are akin to yours Mike...i.e. -20 to -10 MV is typical. From time to time, I've pushed to -5 and rarely to reference for momentary demo purposes...but never to the point of distortion. I guess you could characterize me as a bass lover but not a basshead. I'm happy with very tight and very clean bass at -10 MV from about 15-17 Hz and up. I recall someone on these threads commenting that 99.5% of meaningful movie ULF is above 20 Hz with the remaining 0.5% below. I envy those who have 0.5% capability but I personally don't have the desire to chase single digit response...so deep extension is not a priority for me.

On a different note, I think I've been very fortunate with my room acoustics as I prefer not to engage RC. In the past, I've utilized XT, XT32, YPAO, and MCACC and more often than not have turned them off. To my ears, movies and music sound terrific. To REW, the room is relatively flat with a few minor peaks where I like them. Because of this, I've never pursued acoustic treatments. I also understand that my room cannot be perfect...acoustically speaking. However, my screen wall is carpeted, left wall is full of DVD's, and my right wall is carpeted as opposed to painted...acoustic treatments at key reflection points in disguise by accident...maybe?

It's very obvious to me that your collective experiences/recommendations would be to devote some effort to acoustic treatment considerations. As I'm comfortable with multiple subwoofers, setup, and their proper placement, I also feel acoustic treatments are where I could make improvements. To this end, I will do some studying and research...thanks guys!

Lastly, I've had two generations and types of SVS subwoofers and have been very pleased for all the reasons why everyone speaks so highly of the company, their products, and customer service. Consequently, my first consideration and at the top of my short list for an upgrade are the PB-13 Ultras. However, most enthusiasts are aware that competitive products in terms of both price and performance have emerged in the past few years. It is my intention to audition my short list, beginning with the Ultras, in the upcoming weeks and post any findings that may be of interest. I would also welcome any comments from current owners who did similar actual real world comparisons before selecting the Ultra.

Hi Gene,

That was an interesting post, which helped to explain what you are looking for. I think as consumers we have so many good choices for subwoofers that, with a little bit of research, it is pretty hard to go wrong. One piece of information that was missing from your post is how much you like to boost your subs above where your AVR set them? Although, I don't go to Reference MV's, I add so much sub trim that I am still playing my subs at Reference and above. So sub boost is also a factor.

I think it is hard to find better made subs than Ultras. And unless you are going with the much more expensive Funk Audio subs, I also think that it is very hard to beat the appearance of Ultras in piano black. I also like the upgrade plan. From a customer service standpoint, though, there are several ID makers who offer really excellent service and warranties.

So, with all those factors aside, it really comes down to performance. I like the fact that the Ultras go low. The 14Hz port tune that SVS notes on the newer PB Ultras (15Hz on the PC's) should translate to 11Hz or 12 Hz in-room. I like that, and frankly would take even more if I could get it. I personally think that there is a good deal more LFE content below 20Hz than the person you quoted was speculating. There are threads devoted to the subject that track that sort of thing. So, Ultras beat some other comparable subs on sheer low frequency extension, and I like that.

Nevertheless, there are comparably priced subs that will outdo the Ultra on sheer output at almost all frequencies. If I didn't already have brand loyalty in SVS, and if appearance were less important to me, I would love to have JTR Captivator 1400's, for instance. But I think that is where understanding your own SPL requirements will be helpful. If you are listening at about -10 MV, and not using a big house curve on your subs (say 10db or more), then I don't think that you are likely to find anything that you will enjoy more than the Ultras. But, if for instance, you were playing at -5 MV, or higher, with a 12 to 15db house curve, then the Captivators would definitely outperform the Ultras.

I sort of envy you the opportunity to do the search, and I will be very interested to hear what you conclude from it.

Regards,
Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Gene,

That was an interesting post, which helped to explain what you are looking for. I think as consumers we have so many good choices for subwoofers that, with a little bit of research, it is pretty hard to go wrong. One piece of information that was missing from your post is how much you like to boost your subs above where your AVR set them? Although, I don't go to Reference MV's, I add so much sub trim that I am still playing my subs at Reference and above. So sub boost is also a factor.

I think it is hard to find better made subs than Ultras. And unless you are going with the much more expensive Funk Audio subs, I also think that it is very hard to beat the appearance of Ultras in piano black. I also like the upgrade plan. From a customer service standpoint, though, there are several ID makers who offer really excellent service and warranties.

So, with all those factors aside, it really comes down to performance. I like the fact that the Ultras go low. The 14Hz port tune that SVS notes on the newer PB Ultras (15Hz on the PC's) should translate to 11Hz or 12 Hz in-room. I like that, and frankly would take even more if I could get it. I personally think that there is a good deal more LFE content below 20Hz than the person you quoted was speculating. There are threads devoted to the subject that track that sort of thing. So, Ultras beat some other comparable subs on sheer low frequency extension, and I like that.

Nevertheless, there are comparably priced subs that will outdo the Ultra on sheer output at almost all frequencies. If I didn't already have brand loyalty in SVS, and if appearance were less important to me, I would love to have JTR Captivator 1400's, for instance. But I think that is where understanding your own SPL requirements will be helpful. If you are listening at about -10 MV, and not using a big house curve on your subs (say 10db or more), then I don't think that you are likely to find anything that you will enjoy more than the Ultras. But, if for instance, you were playing at -5 MV, or higher, with a 12 to 15db house curve, then the Captivators would definitely outperform the Ultras.

I sort of envy you the opportunity to do the search, and I will be very interested to hear what you conclude from it.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

As always, your thoughts and input are valued...and it's apparent we have similar tastes. SVS's product performance, appearance, and build quality are what originally drew me to the company...so yes, brand loyalty carry's significant weight.

WRT to my preference for sub boost: With each sub's gain set at 75db which resulted in a measured overall gain of 80-81db, XT returned a result of -12 (BTW Onkyo's limit is -15 as opposed to D+M at -12). I then boosted to -6 so a +6db house curve. That left me with still quite a bit of headroom. So, you can see I really have never pushed my subs hard. And the SQ from the dual PB-2000's have been very much to my liking at these settings.

With regard to my short list...yes, the Cap 1400 is on it. Selection criteria is comprised of both subjective and objective data. If I'm totally honest with myself, this will be a "blind" test of sorts. With the lights out and enjoying a movie, the winner should be the one that provides the most pleasing SQ to me in my environment...other subjective criteria should not be a factor. However, we all understand that life is not like that! The journey will be fun and interesting...will share my impressions along the way.

Ooops...hit the submit button early by accident!
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Hi all,
I just made an extremely stupid mistake when integrating a new component into my system. I had to unhook my dual PC13U cylinders to move some things, and when I re-hooked them back up I accidentally connected the low level output on one of the subs. When watching a movie, I noticed that the LFE was next to non-existent, so I started trouble shooting using a calbration disk (to make sure I was getting LFE from the source). My question is, did I damage anything by pumping a signal into an output jack? Please help!!! I am in panic mode right now (they are, after all, my babies)... Thanks!
from electronic perspective there was no input on sub so no output (next to nothing anyways), but output from avr to output of sub. so there would be a 5V or 2V max going to the output pre-amp of the sub.. normally this would not hurt the sub amp plate but it can hurt the avr if both sub and avr are ground connected. also newer avr have protection on it for this kinda stuff.. in the end, if there is sound comming out of the sub when you connect it the right way, then nothing is harmed.. if no sound this way then i would try another avr to see if this gives sound.. if it does then ur avr is screwed..
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@mthomas47 @AllenA07 @DaJoJo
Appreciate your feedback to my questions......<---- ----> I would also welcome any comments from current owners who did similar actual real world comparisons before selecting the Ultra.
glad too.. real world comparison between pb2000 dual and pb13 ultra : friend of mine has 2 pb2000 , no match to my single pb13 ultra it'll even outperform 2 pb12. this pb13 is interior killing, no joke. from all the subs i heared there was none that came even close. perhaps try a dls-10 DIY ? or little wrecker DIY ? anyways i am biased offcourse but i wouldnt look into anything else then a pb13

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I think that you could find more knowledgeable sources to ask (call GIK Acoustics, for instance) but yes I do think that 12cm of rockwool, with some sort of backing material (typically plywood) and a large hole in the center would be helpful for bass attenuation. I just don't know how low it would go. I think that commercial traps are made with compressed fiberglass, which gives them more density and a consequently lower frequency effect. But I do know that you can DIY your own. I've just never done it.
Edit: Somebody posted this link on another thread, so I decided to repeat it here. This is an example of compressed glasswool. A couple of thicknesses of this should be excellent for attenuation of bass frequencies. http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/...berglass-3-lb/
i have no idea but the DIY seems simple to do and materials are cheap. compressing can be done with a bedsheet i guess and the rockwool can be exchanged with a fiberglass version. they sell knauf stuff over here, in fact i have a friend that works with that brand daily and can give me a 50% discount on it. i could make a door of it and put this in the hole under the stairs so i can use this as a shelfcase .. now only thing i need is a good mic for my REW . for now i just use the mic that came with my yammie a3040, which does reasonably well even without a calibrationfile. you got me pointed in the right direction and i thank you for that

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i have no idea but the DIY seems simple to do and materials are cheap. compressing can be done with a bedsheet i guess and the rockwool can be exchanged with a fiberglass version. they sell knauf stuff over here, in fact i have a friend that works with that brand daily and can give me a 50% discount on it. i could make a door of it and put this in the hole under the stairs so i can use this as a shelfcase .. now only thing i need is a good mic for my REW . for now i just use the mic that came with my yammie a3040, which does reasonably well even without a calibrationfile. you got me pointed in the right direction and i thank you for that

You are very welcome! If you think about it, please let us know how things turn out. It looks as if it will be a very nice room.
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from electronic perspective there was no input on sub so no output (next to nothing anyways), but output from avr to output of sub. so there would be a 5V or 2V max going to the output pre-amp of the sub.. normally this would not hurt the sub amp plate but it can hurt the avr if both sub and avr are ground connected. also newer avr have protection on it for this kinda stuff.. in the end, if there is sound comming out of the sub when you connect it the right way, then nothing is harmed.. if no sound this way then i would try another avr to see if this gives sound.. if it does then ur avr is screwed..
Thanks for the response, DaJoJo.... My AVR is circa 2013 (Denon X4000), so I hope that qualifies as a "newer AVR." After hooking everything up correctly, the LFE level returned to normal, and there are no wonky sounds coming from the sub (just the normal LFE). Both components are grounded, but I don't think to a common ground; they are plugged into different circuits (as opposed to different outlets on the same circuit). Everything seems to be fine, but in the back of my mind there is always this worry about damage that may not be immediately obvious.... maybe my OCD has gotten out of control again...

Peace... Vader
 

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glad too.. real world comparison between pb2000 dual and pb13 ultra : friend of mine has 2 pb2000 , no match to my single pb13 ultra it'll even outperform 2 pb12. this pb13 is interior killing, no joke. from all the subs i heared there was none that came even close. perhaps try a dls-10 DIY ? or little wrecker DIY ? anyways i am biased offcourse but i wouldnt look into anything else then a pb13
I have actually compared "dual" PB-2000's and a "single" PB-13 Ultra in my room. Although the Ultra did outperform the dual 2000's in output, I did not find the difference to be dramatic at my preferred listening levels. I suspect our differing impressions may also be due to the differences in our room characteristics..i.e. volume, geometry, response, etc. My objective is to compare "dual" PB-13 Ultras (my first choice), against other duals in its class...in my environment. I'm a bit biased toward the Ultras as well but I would be remiss if I did not take advantage of competitive trial offers. After all, we should take our own advice and make the decision...with our ears, with our source material, in our environment...fun and interesting days to come.
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glad too.. real world comparison between pb2000 dual and pb13 ultra : friend of mine has 2 pb2000 , no match to my single pb13 ultra it'll even outperform 2 pb12. this pb13 is interior killing, no joke. from all the subs i heared there was none that came even close. perhaps try a dls-10 DIY ? or little wrecker DIY ? anyways i am biased offcourse but i wouldnt look into anything else then a pb13
I never had a chance chance to compare dual PB-2000 vs single Ultra but I'm sure from what I read a learn I will get dual PB-2000 over single Ultra. Output is one thing but over all performance and benefits of dual's is another thing ( ofcourse with right set up)

But

I had a chance to compare at home Ultra vs dual Pluses and make long story short look at my signature what I decide to keep 😉.
Ultra is excellent sub and if have 2 of those no question it is winner but choice 1 Ultra vs dual Pluses is actually very easy decision even my wife said dual Pluses sounds just better and we try multiple movies scene and favorite music. I had set up single Plus then single Ultra then dual Pluses. All just sound better with dual set up.

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