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post #24361 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are very welcome! If you think about it, please let us know how things turn out. It looks as if it will be a very nice room.
will do.. next week i start moving to new house and after look into the basstraps. After i settle i'll make some nice pics hope it will bring what i was hoping for, so far so good

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post #24362 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post
Thanks for the response, DaJoJo.... My AVR is circa 2013 (Denon X4000), so I hope that qualifies as a "newer AVR." After hooking everything up correctly, the LFE level returned to normal, and there are no wonky sounds coming from the sub (just the normal LFE). Both components are grounded, but I don't think to a common ground; they are plugged into different circuits (as opposed to different outlets on the same circuit). Everything seems to be fine, but in the back of my mind there is always this worry about damage that may not be immediately obvious.... maybe my OCD has gotten out of control again...
Well actually the grounded stuff is all connected to earth in the mains cabinet. what i meant is the groundwire from sub to avr, since they have a isolated case and ground from avr is "floating" they are not psysically connected to earth this way. but from what u tell me they where not connected. so no strange sounds and no hickups or noise or clicks -> nothing to worry about.
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post #24363 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Odd choice being sealed vs ported.
I didn't realize Rythmik had come out with a ported LVX12 so now I'm debating between the LVX12 and PB2000. I was a previous PB13 Ultra owner but I'm curious about Rythmik's Direct Servo technology.

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post #24364 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
I have actually compared "dual" PB-2000's and a "single" PB-13 Ultra in my room. Although the Ultra did outperform the dual 2000's in output, I did not find the difference to be dramatic at my preferred listening levels. I suspect our differing impressions may also be due to the differences in our room characteristics..i.e. volume, geometry, response, etc. My objective is to compare "dual" PB-13 Ultras (my first choice), against other duals in its class...in my environment. I'm a bit biased toward the Ultras as well but I would be remiss if I did not take advantage of competitive trial offers. After all, we should take our own advice and make the decision...with our ears, with our source material, in our environment...fun and interesting days to come.
so true.. one can only know if one tries himself in his own room. in the end that is what it is all about. we can only give our personal opinion and some good specs, but the room itself makes or brakes the outcome.
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post #24365 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal33 View Post
I didn't realize Rythmik had come out with a ported LVX12 so now I'm debating between the LVX12 and PB2000. I was a previous PB13 Ultra owner but I'm curious about Rythmik's Direct Servo technology.
My money would be on the LVX12.
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post #24366 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
My money would be on the LVX12.
That's what I'm leaning towards.

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post #24367 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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still i cannot agree on the ported vs sealed.. like u say the sealed will give more extension, but the ported gives more airmovement hence my saying that ported give better explosions feel coz the more movement of the air.. not neccesarly making the bass better hearable in lower freqs. if you have open holes like open windows or door or ventilation, the whole benefit of ported gets less whereas the sealed one does not have this problem. also a ported sub need a adequate amp plate to compensate for the free moving woofer vs the sealed that needs less power. so a underpowered ported will loose from sealed and a overpowered sealed will break faster. there is not really a solid answer that goes for all ported or sealed. also big or small room makes a difference and whether one has open space to other room or hallway. there is a common fact that 2 or 4 subs really smooth out the bass along the room and this goes for any brand or type. while 3 subs can totally ruin the effect. in a small room with one sub in the middle there is no need for the second sub. also things as a couch made of fabric will work as a basstrap and leather sofa's will work as a reflection area . there is only one way to find out and that is measurement and hearing in one's room itself.

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post #24368 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
still i cannot agree on the ported vs sealed.. like u say the sealed will give more extension, but the ported gives more airmovement hence my saying that ported give better explosions feel coz the more movement of the air.. not neccesarly making the bass better hearable in lower freqs. if you have open holes like open windows or door or ventilation, the whole benefit of ported gets less whereas the sealed one does not have this problem. also a ported sub need a adequate amp plate to compensate for the free moving woofer vs the sealed that needs less power. so a underpowered ported will loose from sealed and a overpowered sealed will break faster. there is not really a solid answer that goes for all ported or sealed. also big or small room makes a difference and whether one has open space to other room or hallway. there is a common fact that 2 or 4 subs really smooth out the bass along the room and this goes for any brand or type. while 3 subs can totally ruin the effect. in a small room with one sub in the middle there is no need for the second sub. also things as a couch made of fabric will work as a basstrap and leather sofa's will work as a reflection area . there is only one way to find out and that is measurement and hearing in one's room itself.
I agree with almost everything that you just said, and your insights are valuable. The two exceptions are the sentence I highlighted, and the idea of using a sofa as a bass trap. First, with respect to a ported sub being less effective than a sealed sub, in a room with openings, I have never read anything that would suggest that, nor does the concept seem quite right to me on its face.

Subs, whether ported or sealed, simply produce the volumes they produce, at the particular frequencies that they produce them. And the bass waves that result simply interact with room modes, however they do. There is nothing about the room, or the sound waves produced, that can distinguish between sealed subs and ported ones. A ported sub actually has a better chance of working well in a room which is open to other spaces, simply because it is capable of providing more output at most frequencies than a comparable sealed sub.

The idea of a sofa acting as a bass trap is appealing, but I think it would take a very exceptional sofa to provide any meaningful attenuation below about 200Hz or 300Hz. The foam bass traps, such as those sold on Amazon, are about 12" deep, and can only provide any meaningful attenuation down to about 240Hz. A good bass trap should go down to at least 120Hz, and a very good one can provide significant attenuation down to about 60Hz, or lower.

I think that it would be possible to put acoustical material inside a sofa to create a bass trap, but just the normal foam stuffing doesn't actually do much with respect to bass, although it can certainly help for mid-range and treble absorption.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24369 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:45 PM
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DaJoJo,

Not meaning to offend, but you are repeating a few basic misunderstandings in this post that I would like to correct.



This is simply not true. A quality ported sub can sound just as "tight" as it's sealed counterpart.



Ported will only have deeper extension than sealed if your room is too large to realize sufficient room gain. If you have a small to medium sized room (or a sufficient amount of sealed subs), sealed will always have deeper extension than ported.



Ported are not specifically better for explosions in any inherent way, and it has been proven in other threads here on AVS that ported subs actually produce more TR (tactile response) than sealed subs.

The Ultimate Frequency, Pressure and Tactile Response Thread
The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
still i cannot agree on the ported vs sealed.. like u say the sealed will give more extension, but the ported gives more airmovement hence my saying that ported give better explosions feel coz the more movement of the air.. not neccesarly making the bass better hearable in lower freqs. if you have open holes like open windows or door or ventilation, the whole benefit of ported gets less whereas the sealed one does not have this problem. also a ported sub need a adequate amp plate to compensate for the free moving woofer vs the sealed that needs less power. so a underpowered ported will loose from sealed and a overpowered sealed will break faster. there is not really a solid answer that goes for all ported or sealed. also big or small room makes a difference and whether one has open space to other room or hallway. there is a common fact that 2 or 4 subs really smooth out the bass along the room and this goes for any brand or type. while 3 subs can totally ruin the effect. in a small room with one sub in the middle there is no need for the second sub. also things as a couch made of fabric will work as a basstrap and leather sofa's will work as a reflection area . there is only one way to find out and that is measurement and hearing in one's room itself.
I'm going to assume this is in response to my post above...but since you didn't quote me, I can't be absolutely sure of that.

You are pouring out more misinformation in your new post. Let me comment on a few of your points:

"if you have open holes like open windows or door or ventilation, the whole benefit of ported gets less whereas the sealed one does not have this problem."

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that sealed subs do not have problems being placed in rooms with multiple "openings" where ported subs do have issues with "openings"...this is exactly the opposite of reality.

"there is a common fact that 2 or 4 subs really smooth out the bass along the room and this goes for any brand or type. while 3 subs can totally ruin the effect."

This is no "common fact" that I am familiar with. A 3 sub system can be quite effective (more effective than 2 subs)...I know from personal experience, I had a 3 sub system at one time.

in a small room with one sub in the middle there is no need for the second sub.

Again, completely untrue. A single sub in a small room has a better chance of reducing nulls than in a large room, but there is no guarantee.

there is only one way to find out and that is measurement and hearing in one's room itself.

Now there's a statement I 100% agree with!
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post #24370 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:53 PM
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I must have skipped over the three sub part. Earl Geddes, who is a very well respected sub guru and audio expert, actually recommends using three subs, on three opposing walls, to achieve good frequency response. As it happens, I use that approach to excellent effect with my three Ultras.
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post #24371 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I agree with almost everything that you just said, and your insights are valuable. The two exceptions are the sentence I highlighted, and the idea of using a sofa as a bass trap. First, with respect to a ported sub being less effective than a sealed sub, in a room with openings, I have never read anything that would suggest that, nor does the concept seem quite right to me on its face.

Subs, whether ported or sealed, simply produce the volumes they produce, at the particular frequencies that they produce them. And the bass waves that result simply interact with room modes, however they do. There is nothing about the room, or the sound waves produced, that can distinguish between sealed subs and ported ones. A ported sub actually has a better chance of working well in a room which is open to other spaces, simply because it is capable of providing more output at most frequencies than a comparable sealed sub.

The idea of a sofa acting as a bass trap is appealing, but I think it would take a very exceptional sofa to provide any meaningful attenuation below about 200Hz or 300Hz. The foam bass traps, such as those sold on Amazon, are about 12" deep, and can only provide any meaningful attenuation down to about 240Hz. A good bass trap should go down to at least 120Hz, and a very good one can provide significant attenuation down to about 60Hz, or lower.

I think that it would be possible to put acoustical material inside a sofa to create a bass trap, but just the normal foam stuffing doesn't actually do much with respect to bass, although it can certainly help for mid-range and treble absorption.

Regards,
Mike
mm yes i mean a ported do better in a room full of holes.. excuse moi there is also a discussion about what sofa or couch works better or not at al lol . couch i was referring to is a couch with 30cm of fibers in it, not the ikea style 2cm foam with a inside full of air. i should have mentioned that. so besides the basstraps i need a thick fiberstuffed fabric couch learning everyday here, which is a good thing.
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post #24372 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I'm going to assume this is in response to my post above...but since you didn't quote me, I can't be absolutely sure of that.
You are pouring out more misinformation in your new post. Let me comment on a few of your points:
"if you have open holes like open windows or door or ventilation, the whole benefit of ported gets less whereas the sealed one does not have this problem."
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that sealed subs do not have problems being placed in rooms with multiple "openings" where ported subs do have issues with "openings"...this is exactly the opposite of reality.
"there is a common fact that 2 or 4 subs really smooth out the bass along the room and this goes for any brand or type. while 3 subs can totally ruin the effect."
This is no "common fact" that I am familiar with. A 3 sub system can be quite effective (more effective than 2 subs)...I know from personal experience, I had a 3 sub system at one time.
in a small room with one sub in the middle there is no need for the second sub.
Again, completely untrue. A single sub in a small room has a better chance of reducing nulls than in a large room, but there is no guarantee.
there is only one way to find out and that is measurement and hearing in one's room itself.
Now there's a statement I 100% agree with!
not particulary directed to you, but i like to hear your view on it anyways :-)
about the holes see above post . i swapped them accidently.
3 sub CAN ruin, not neccesary do.maybe i should say could possibly ?
anyways a comprehensive test of harman kardon pointed out that 1 sub on each wall or 2 on opposite wall works best. as they used a great load of expertise and experts and expensive equipment i believe what they found out is correct.
small room with 4 corners square.
we can also agree that there is no saying in what will work best in each case

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post #24373 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 03:24 PM
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not particulary directed to you, but i like to hear your view on it anyways :-)
about the holes see above post . i swapped them accidently.
3 sub CAN ruin, not neccesary do.maybe i should say could possibly ?
anyways a comprehensive test of harman kardon pointed out that 1 sub on each wall or 2 on opposite wall works best. as they used a great load of expertise and experts and expensive equipment i believe what they found out is correct.
small room with 4 corners square.
we can also agree that there is no saying in what will work best in each case
FWIW, we are all still learning, which is one thing I really like about AVS. Alan and I agreed that applied to both of us on the previous page. Check my post above for a comment on the use of three subs. And you might enjoy reading a little about Dr Earl Geddes. With all due respect to Harman Kardon, if two subs on opposing walls works well, and four subs on opposing walls also works well (Toole, Welti, and Harmon who differ only with respect to theoretically optimal positioning) then there is no reason at all why three subs on three opposing walls would not also work well. But as you noted, it does depend somewhat on the individual room.
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post #24374 of 24378 Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
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FWIW, we are all still learning, which is one thing I really like about AVS. Alan and I agreed that applied to both of us on the previous page. Check my post above for a comment on the use of three subs. And you might enjoy reading a little about Dr Earl Geddes. With all due respect to Harman Kardon, if two subs on opposing walls works well, and four subs on opposing walls also works well (Toole, Welti, and Harmon who differ only with respect to theoretically optimal positioning) then there is no reason at all why three subs on three opposing walls would not also work well. But as you noted, it does depend somewhat on the individual room.
yeah i really admire some peoples thoroughness and promptness to pursue the truth and answers to problems eventhough there might never come a solid solution to some things. I myself will allways try and learn to improve myself. sometimes i might sound harsh or not willing to accept the 'right' answer, but most of the time there is no 'right' answer then. my english is also not that good, so a lot of misunderstanding can happen. if this is the case then there is allways a member to correct me or explain things so it will be clear to me and other readers. that is the real power of a forum like this, in the end everything is as clear as it can get and hopefully no one will feel affended
offcourse they just test it in ideal situations in a dead room or in ther own room, so for the normal people's houses this might never be attainable or a solid solution.
For me the best we can do is to explain how to achieve the best possible/ideal situation in each individual room.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
Well actually the grounded stuff is all connected to earth in the mains cabinet. what i meant is the groundwire from sub to avr, since they have a isolated case and ground from avr is "floating" they are not psysically connected to earth this way. but from what u tell me they where not connected. so no strange sounds and no hickups or noise or clicks -> nothing to worry about.
Thanks again, DaJoJo!
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Hey Guys,

Is there anyone who wants to part with the shipping box and packing materials for a PB1000 ?

I helped a friend get her (budget constrained) system set up . Now she’s become a basshead and
wants to take advantage of the upgrade program. Not enough space for duals.

So if anyone has the PB1000 shipping box taking up space and are thinking about “decluttering”,
I have a new home for it. I would pay shipping of course. And if you live anywhere near central
New Jersey, all the better. I’d be glad to pick it up.

Thanks Everyone

PS It sure is interesting how the budget strings loosen once good, quality sound is heard.

I think, therefore I am single.
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post #24377 of 24378 Old Today, 02:10 PM
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Hey Guys,
Is there anyone who wants to part with the shipping box and packing materials for a PB1000 ?
I helped a friend get her (budget constrained) system set up . Now she’s become a basshead and
wants to take advantage of the upgrade program. Not enough space for duals.
So if anyone has the PB1000 shipping box taking up space and are thinking about “decluttering”,
I have a new home for it. I would pay shipping of course. And if you live anywhere near central
New Jersey, all the better. I’d be glad to pick it up.
Thanks Everyone
PS It sure is interesting how the budget strings loosen once good, quality sound is heard.
i have a empty PB13 ultra box 100% undamaged with the plastic stuff and all if anyone wants/needs it, but it might be too big for a PB1000 also shipping from netherlands probably expensive. i just need it one more time for moving my sub to my new house , but after that the sub ain't going nowhere.
did you ask SVS for one ? they're very friendly most of the time.

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post #24378 of 24378 Old Today, 07:38 PM
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Welp....

My SB-13ultra just died on me. AMP needs to be replaced less than 90 days old

Came home and noticed I was not getting any bass....checked the sub no power. Replaced the fuse with the spare, blew that one too. Called SVS they will send me a new AMP once I send in mine.

What a pain in the ass...

And I just finished setting up the HT hahaahahahah *cries*

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Front - B&W CM10 S2 w/ AudioQuest Rocket 44
Rear - B&W CM6 S2 w/ AudioQuest X2 on SureGrip BP
Center - B&W CM Centre 2 S2 w/ Canare 4S11
Sub - SVS SB13-Ultra w/ AudioQuest Black Lab (REL T9 retired)
AVR - Denon X6200W // TV - 65JS9500 (64F8500 65ZT60 52Z5100 retired)
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Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000
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