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post #24391 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 05:02 PM
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+1

And one more question: Where in that room are you sitting? That 50' length sounds like an awful lot, but I assume that you are sitting much closer to one end of the 20' wide wall. How close?
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post #24392 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
No expiration date. If you've bought from SVS once you can get a discount code for each additional purchase you make. You just have to request a new code each time you buy.....be it in two days or two years. I do think if you request a code and don't use it within a few days that it expires. Then you would have to request a new code.
They even sent me a t-shirt this time! Not sure if that is a new thing for everybody, or if it is because it was my third purchase in 6 months...
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post #24393 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
8000 cubic foot + 12" sub = FAIL.

That being said, you should be getting levels of bass far better than a $100 sub.

In order for us to help, you need to provide much more information.

A few questions:
  • How did you determine the best place for your sub? Did you do the sub crawl?
  • Where is the subwoofer level set in your receiver?
  • Are all speakers set to "small"?
  • Where is the gain set on the sub? Crossover? Other settings?


I'd highly recommend the Disney WOW disc. KIDDING!!

==============================
Here are the details
1. The previous sub was positioned by my friend at the corner of the room and I placed the new one also in the same place.
2. I have attached the screenshots of the receiver settings, and it appears that they are set to 50hz.....
3. I think yes, during the AccuEQ run time they said small.
4. Gain disabled I think and crossover not sure.....

We sit around 25 feet away from the projector and the sub is around 2 feet away from the projector screen. so essentially we are sitting around 20-25 feet range.
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post #24394 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shravanc View Post
==============================
Here are the details
1. The previous sub was positioned by my friend at the corner of the room and I placed the new one also in the same place.
2. I have attached the screenshots of the receiver settings, and it appears that they are set to 50hz.....
3. I think yes, during the AccuEQ run time they said small.
4. Gain disabled I think and crossover not sure.....

We sit around 25 feet away from the projector and the sub is around 2 feet away from the projector screen. so essentially we are sitting around 20-25 feet range.
Starting point: Gain should be at 50%, phase at 0, low pass should be set at LFE (disabled). Make sure all speakers are, indeed, set to small. Rerun Audessey, and afterward, manually change the crossover points on your receiver to 80 Hz, minimum for all channels.

Edit. Nevermind, On my sub, the gain and the volume are kind of the same thing. Leave the gain disabled, but adjust the volume to 50%.

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post #24395 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 07:15 PM
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Gain to be set to 50% you mean to 40hz?
Low pass set to LFE, I do not see that option, all I see is ability to set the Hz and db.

Thank you in advance for your comprehension and help.


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post #24396 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 08:39 PM
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Ok so not to derail this thread, but I was in some IRC room and some jackass/snob tells me that any 10" subwoofer isn't a real subwoofer "because of the laws of physics" He claims that 10" driver can't produce low frequencies like a 12". This all started because I was asking about the sb1000 vs the pb1000. WTF.
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post #24397 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raxxx View Post
Ok so not to derail this thread, but I was in some IRC room and some jackass/snob tells me that any 10" subwoofer isn't a real subwoofer "because of the laws of physics" He claims that 10" driver can't produce low frequencies like a 12". This all started because I was asking about the sb1000 vs the pb1000. WTF.
The PB-1000 is the perfect example of a 'real subwoofer' with a 10 inch woofer.

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post #24398 of 25218 Old 08-16-2016, 09:45 PM
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The PB-1000 is the perfect example of a 'real subwoofer' with a 10 inch woofer.
Do you own one? Or the sb1000? Just curious?
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post #24399 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 05:09 AM
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Just got a SB1000 and it seems to be as good as my older SB12 NSD was.

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post #24400 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shravanc View Post
Gain to be set to 50% you mean to 40hz?
Low pass set to LFE, I do not see that option, all I see is ability to set the Hz and db.

Thank you in advance for your comprehension and help.


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Hi,

You want to set your gain control wherever you can get a good negative number when your AVR calibrates your system. So, whether the setting is at 40%, or 50%, or even higher, you would like to have your sub's trim level (the volume control for the sub in the AVR itself) set at about -8 after you run your automated EQ set-up. That will then enable you to raise the volume level of the sub in your AVR by about 6db, or so, in order to hear more dynamic bass. That part is a little complicated, but just take it on faith for the moment that you want to start with a good negative number and then add trim in the AVR up to about -1.

The reason I asked earlier where you were sitting was twofold. First, obviously, the further you are sitting from your subwoofer, the more of the room it has to fill. If you could move up to about 15', or so from the sub, it would help a lot. And I would try moving the sub back toward the corner, if I were you. That will give it some extra oomph. The second reason I asked where you were sitting is because I was hoping you would say that you were sitting toward one end of the room.

Sitting at virtually the exact midpoint of the room (at 25' in a 50' room), you are experiencing cancellation of some bass frequencies--essentially, you are sitting in a null zone. If you can move forward to about 1/3 or 2/5 of the room length, that alone should improve your bass. I think that you would ideally be at about 15' to 18' from the wall behind your screen. I am not sure what that would do to your optimum viewing distance, although I think that might improve as well, but I am sure that your bass response would improve.

Alan wasn't exaggerating when he said that you were putting an almost impossible demand on that 12" woofer, in a room that size, so anything you can do to help it, and improve your overall audio as well, should receive some serious consideration. Everyone here will be glad to help you get things dialed in.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24401 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shravanc View Post
==============================
Here are the details
1. The previous sub was positioned by my friend at the corner of the room and I placed the new one also in the same place.
2. I have attached the screenshots of the receiver settings, and it appears that they are set to 50hz.....
3. I think yes, during the AccuEQ run time they said small.
4. Gain disabled I think and crossover not sure.....

We sit around 25 feet away from the projector and the sub is around 2 feet away from the projector screen. so essentially we are sitting around 20-25 feet range.
Mike is right, you need to move much closer to your screen. Why are you sitting so far back?

I would think that at 25' your front speakers would be struggling to supply enough output at the MLP. According to this calculator, with your AVR and speakers seated at 25' you can hit a maximum of about 100dB...well below the 105dB that is Reference Level...and that is using all available power in the AVR (100wpc). You would be able to hit 105dB at 14'.

How did your friend determine that the front right corner was the best place for the sub?

You should raise your crossovers to at least 80hz...maybe even higher if you can't move closer to the front stage (to take some strain off of your mains/amps).
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post #24402 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 12:39 PM
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Hi Alan, seating too close may not be an good option for me. Would rampin up power of AVR help ? What is best AVR you suggest under less than $1000 to ramp the power of AVR.


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post #24403 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 12:57 PM
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In order to raise the output a small amount requires a considerable boost in amplifier power. To only gain 3dB you need to double the amp power. In your case, you would need 3x the amp power (300wpc) to reach Reference at 25'. AVRs with that kind of power are rare to non-existent. You would need a pre/pro with external amps, and that can get very expensive. More sensitive speakers would be a much better (not to mention less expensive) investment IMO.


But, moving the MLP closer to the screen would be easy, not to mention free.

Moving closer would improve your setup on many levels. Not only would your speakers seem louder and less strained, you would be out of the half-way point of the room (a "dead zone" for bass) and you would be closer to the screen (essentially giving you a larger screen at zero cost).

What's holding you back? WAF??
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post #24404 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shravanc View Post
Hi Alan, seating too close may not be an good option for me. Would rampin up power of AVR help ? What is best AVR you suggest under less than $1000 to ramp the power of AVR.


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I'm not trying to answer for Alan, but just increasing your amplifier power would be the least of it. And going from 100 watts per channel to 200 watts would only get you 3db more volume. I would experiment with at least moving forward by about 6'. That would move you out of the null in the middle of the room, and would get you about 6db more volume from your front speakers and your sub. You can subtract about 3db for every meter that you move away from a sub or a speaker. So, just moving about 6' closer would help a lot, if you can do it.
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post #24405 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 01:00 PM
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Thanks Alan , I got your point, moving closer will make the screen too big to view and move eye balls across the screen more often and leading to more eye strain is what I was thinking.


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post #24406 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 01:41 PM
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Thanks Alan , I got your point, moving closer will make the screen too big to view and move eye balls across the screen more often and leading to more eye strain is what I was thinking.
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Everybody hears and sees things differently, but it's at least worth a try to go a little closer. You can always move things back if you don't like it. But you may enjoy just a slightly more immersive visual experience for it's own sake. And the sound should be much better.
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post #24407 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 02:08 PM
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Do you own one? Or the sb1000? Just curious?
I own a PB-1000 (first SVS sub I bought. My room is 14x30, and it was rattling the door to the kitchen, the full 30 feet away. It is a lot of subwoofer in a small box. Anyone who says it is not a "real subwoofer" has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. That said, I've since bought two PC2000s. Wow.
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post #24408 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 02:18 PM
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PC12-NSD outlet I purchased arrived today. Far more damage than mentioned or pictured, so I had to box it back up and it's going back. Very disappointed.
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post #24409 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pcfriedrich View Post
I own a PB-1000 (first SVS sub I bought. My room is 14x30, and it was rattling the door to the kitchen, the full 30 feet away. It is a lot of subwoofer in a small box. Anyone who says it is not a "real subwoofer" has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. That said, I've since bought two PC2000s. Wow.
+1

The 13.5" Ultra compares favorably with a number of 15" and even 18" subs, so it's no surprise to me that a PB1000, with a 10" driver, would compare favorably to many 12" subs. SVS makes good subwoofers!

Glad to hear you are enjoying your PC2000's. You are amassing quite a collection.
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post #24410 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 02:31 PM
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PC12-NSD outlet I purchased arrived today. Far more damage than mentioned or pictured, so I had to box it back up and it's going back. Very disappointed.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have noticed more damage to the Outlet specials lately than I saw a year ago. I bought a piano black PB, with a little crack in the veneer on the bottom, from the Outlet last year. Now, it seems as if all of them have pretty visible chips on the edges of the cabinets. I wonder if they are having some shipping problems from their factory overseas?
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post #24411 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shravanc View Post
Thanks Alan , I got your point, moving closer will make the screen too big to view and move eye balls across the screen more often and leading to more eye strain is what I was thinking.


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How big is your screen?

I believe the correct screen size for a 25' viewing distance would be somewhere in the range of 20' diagonal.

To calculate your recommended viewing distance, use this calculator.
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post #24412 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 02:58 PM
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How big is your screen?

I believe the correct screen size for a 25' viewing distance would be somewhere in the range of 20' diagonal.

To calculate your recommended viewing distance, use this calculator.

And even with those calculators, our tastes vary. I think I enjoy sitting a little closer than most of the older calculator models would predict. I just experimented over a period of time to find out my preferred seating distance. And yesterday, by coincidence, I moved things about 3" closer together. You wouldn't think that you could even notice a 3" difference. But at a viewing distance of about 9' you can.

It's fun to experiment, and we're never completely satisfied.
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post #24413 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I'm sorry to hear that. I have noticed more damage to the Outlet specials lately than I saw a year ago. I bought a piano black PB, with a little crack in the veneer on the bottom, from the Outlet last year. Now, it seems as if all of them have pretty visible chips on the edges of the cabinets. I wonder if they are having some shipping problems from their factory overseas?
This PC12-NSD was a little on the rough side. Kind of dirty and looked more like one that somebody had probably had for a year and traded in on something else. SVS is usually pretty good with pointing out even the slightest of flaws in their outlet, but not in this case. Here are a couple of pics of the ones I sent to SVS.


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post #24414 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I'm sorry to hear that. I have noticed more damage to the Outlet specials lately than I saw a year ago. I bought a piano black PB, with a little crack in the veneer on the bottom, from the Outlet last year. Now, it seems as if all of them have pretty visible chips on the edges of the cabinets. I wonder if they are having some shipping problems from their factory overseas?
I just got a SB1000 from the outlet and really can't see much of any damage.
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post #24415 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
This PC12-NSD was a little on the rough side. Kind of dirty and looked more like one that somebody had probably had for a year and traded in on something else. SVS is usually pretty good with pointing out even the slightest of flaws in their outlet, but not in this case. Here are a couple of pics of the ones I sent to SVS.



Yeah that's a little rough looking. I'd be disappointed, too. Are they even making the PC12 NSD any more? I would imagine that most of those NSD's we see in the Outlet would be returns from trade-ups.

They really ought to do a better job of disclosing the condition, though. That's not very satisfactory. Maybe you will get luckier on the next one.
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post #24416 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 06:57 PM
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PC12-NSD outlet I purchased arrived today. Far more damage than mentioned or pictured, so I had to box it back up and it's going back. Very disappointed.
mine arrived as well. Yet to open it up. Will do sometime later.
I expect no damage what so ever (as advertised)
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post #24417 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 07:19 PM
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Hi Alan, seating too close may not be an good option for me. Would rampin up power of AVR help ? What is best AVR you suggest under less than $1000 to ramp the power of AVR.


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I have a better suggestion. The speakers in your pics are tiny bookshelves. From 25ft away how can you even hear them? Keep your AVR and buy some big efficient speakers like Klipsch.

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post #24418 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 07:36 PM
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Hey guys, need some help. I am currently debating whether i should upgrade to a PB1000/2000 or if i should just stick with what i have and try to be happy.
I have recently upgraded my entire living room/HT setup to include new 4k display, new towers, center, receiver and sub. I absolutely love everything, except i feel that the bass from the new sub isnt quite accurate/tight enough. My current sub is a BIC PL200 and for the most part it does an awesome job. It is plenty powerful enough and will literally shake the walls, but something just feels off about it. After doing some research im thinking its maybe the lack of a 20-30hz response. As i said it more than shakes the room etc. but i feel like there are certain parts in movies etc that should have a noticeable *thump* thats missing with the PL200. My setup is used 95% for movies/tv/games and the rest occasional music. Im not an audiophile by any means, but having read tons of posts on audio theory and quality etc, i feel like im missing out on something awesome with my current sub.

My question really is, is it going to be noticeably worth it to upgrade to a PB1000/2000? Im not exactly unhappy with my current sub, just have that nagging feeling that im missing out on something that could really make a big difference. My room is approx 17x20 with 9ft ceiling. So not super huge, but definitely not small. It unfortunately opens on 2 different sides to the kitchen and the foyer, so i realize its tough to fill. However since my current PL200 seems to handle to size of the room just fine, id imagine the PB1000/2000 wouldnt have a problem either.


Current setup:
Vizio P65
Denon X1200w
Bic Acoustech PL89II towers
Bic Acoustech pl28II center
Onkyo thx bookshelf surrounds
Bic Acoustech PL200


Any input you all can provide is greatly appreciated.
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post #24419 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Yeah that's a little rough looking. I'd be disappointed, too. Are they even making the PC12 NSD any more? I would imagine that most of those NSD's we see in the Outlet would be returns from trade-ups.

They really ought to do a better job of disclosing the condition, though. That's not very satisfactory. Maybe you will get luckier on the next one.
Yeah, the PC12-NSD is no longer produced and last year they did have a final sale of new units, which is why I figure this was a trade in from that deal.

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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
mine arrived as well. Yet to open it up. Will do sometime later.
I expect no damage what so ever (as advertised)
SVS is usually really good about disclosing flaws and damage to their outlet units. That's why I was surprised this one was worse than advertised. Hope yours is all good.
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post #24420 of 25218 Old 08-17-2016, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
I just got a SB1000 from the outlet and really can't see much of any damage.
Did you buy your SB1000 for music only? How does it do movies compared to a ported sub?( Not sure if you own other subs) Thanks!
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