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post #24481 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by shravanc View Post
Hi Alan, seating too close may not be an good option for me. Would rampin up power of AVR help ? What is best AVR you suggest under less than $1000 to ramp the power of AVR.


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I have a better suggestion. The speakers in your pics are tiny bookshelves. From 25ft away how can you even hear them? Keep your AVR and buy some big efficient speakers like Klipsch.

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post #24482 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 06:36 PM
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Hey guys, need some help. I am currently debating whether i should upgrade to a PB1000/2000 or if i should just stick with what i have and try to be happy.
I have recently upgraded my entire living room/HT setup to include new 4k display, new towers, center, receiver and sub. I absolutely love everything, except i feel that the bass from the new sub isnt quite accurate/tight enough. My current sub is a BIC PL200 and for the most part it does an awesome job. It is plenty powerful enough and will literally shake the walls, but something just feels off about it. After doing some research im thinking its maybe the lack of a 20-30hz response. As i said it more than shakes the room etc. but i feel like there are certain parts in movies etc that should have a noticeable *thump* thats missing with the PL200. My setup is used 95% for movies/tv/games and the rest occasional music. Im not an audiophile by any means, but having read tons of posts on audio theory and quality etc, i feel like im missing out on something awesome with my current sub.

My question really is, is it going to be noticeably worth it to upgrade to a PB1000/2000? Im not exactly unhappy with my current sub, just have that nagging feeling that im missing out on something that could really make a big difference. My room is approx 17x20 with 9ft ceiling. So not super huge, but definitely not small. It unfortunately opens on 2 different sides to the kitchen and the foyer, so i realize its tough to fill. However since my current PL200 seems to handle to size of the room just fine, id imagine the PB1000/2000 wouldnt have a problem either.


Current setup:
Vizio P65
Denon X1200w
Bic Acoustech PL89II towers
Bic Acoustech pl28II center
Onkyo thx bookshelf surrounds
Bic Acoustech PL200


Any input you all can provide is greatly appreciated.
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post #24483 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 06:39 PM
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Yeah that's a little rough looking. I'd be disappointed, too. Are they even making the PC12 NSD any more? I would imagine that most of those NSD's we see in the Outlet would be returns from trade-ups.

They really ought to do a better job of disclosing the condition, though. That's not very satisfactory. Maybe you will get luckier on the next one.
Yeah, the PC12-NSD is no longer produced and last year they did have a final sale of new units, which is why I figure this was a trade in from that deal.

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mine arrived as well. Yet to open it up. Will do sometime later.
I expect no damage what so ever (as advertised)
SVS is usually really good about disclosing flaws and damage to their outlet units. That's why I was surprised this one was worse than advertised. Hope yours is all good.
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post #24484 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 06:59 PM
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I just got a SB1000 from the outlet and really can't see much of any damage.
Did you buy your SB1000 for music only? How does it do movies compared to a ported sub?( Not sure if you own other subs) Thanks!
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post #24485 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
mine arrived as well. Yet to open it up. Will do sometime later.
I expect no damage what so ever (as advertised)
Unboxed. Looking ok so far. Set it up just about the same place where by eD A2-300 was.
Will run Audyssey later and see how it performs.
If this checks out well, weekend may be busy, sub-crawling..

Edit : One thing noticed though. There is no port plug included, neither the "cd". Not that I care about them much.
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post #24486 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
I have a better suggestion. The speakers in your pics are tiny bookshelves. From 25ft away how can you even hear them? Keep your AVR and buy some big efficient speakers like Klipsch.
Actually with 50' length, he can make a multiplex (arrr duplex) by dividing it.
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post #24487 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brehiser View Post
Hey guys, need some help. I am currently debating whether i should upgrade to a PB1000/2000 or if i should just stick with what i have and try to be happy.
I have recently upgraded my entire living room/HT setup to include new 4k display, new towers, center, receiver and sub. I absolutely love everything, except i feel that the bass from the new sub isnt quite accurate/tight enough. My current sub is a BIC PL200 and for the most part it does an awesome job. It is plenty powerful enough and will literally shake the walls, but something just feels off about it. After doing some research im thinking its maybe the lack of a 20-30hz response. As i said it more than shakes the room etc. but i feel like there are certain parts in movies etc that should have a noticeable *thump* thats missing with the PL200. My setup is used 95% for movies/tv/games and the rest occasional music. Im not an audiophile by any means, but having read tons of posts on audio theory and quality etc, i feel like im missing out on something awesome with my current sub.

My question really is, is it going to be noticeably worth it to upgrade to a PB1000/2000? Im not exactly unhappy with my current sub, just have that nagging feeling that im missing out on something that could really make a big difference. My room is approx 17x20 with 9ft ceiling. So not super huge, but definitely not small. It unfortunately opens on 2 different sides to the kitchen and the foyer, so i realize its tough to fill. However since my current PL200 seems to handle to size of the room just fine, id imagine the PB1000/2000 wouldnt have a problem either.


Current setup:
Vizio P65
Denon X1200w
Bic Acoustech PL89II towers
Bic Acoustech pl28II center
Onkyo thx bookshelf surrounds
Bic Acoustech PL200


Any input you all can provide is greatly appreciated.
Hi,

I would be inclined to trust my instincts if you feel that the Bic isn't giving you the bass you want. Sometimes a sub can shake the walls and still not actually sound very good. It's hard to be sure how much difference in frequency response you would notice between the Bic and a PB2000, above about 35Hz, for instance. Both would do pretty well. But according to Data-Bass, the Bic drops like a rock below about 35Hz, while the PB12 NSD keeps going under 20Hz. The PB2000 would be expected to get just a tiny bit better response than the NSD, so I think that what you would get is a much better low end, down to about 15Hz or 16Hz in-room. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

I think that low end is what you are missing. The chest punch feeling occurs higher up, as do some frequencies that will rattle things in the room, for instance. But the low bass sort of anchors the whole movie experience for me. You really want to be able to get at least to about 20Hz with some authority.

If I were going to upgrade from the Bic, though, I think I would go with the 2000. That would be a more dramatic difference than the 1000, and your room is big enough to warrant the larger sub. And the bass would definitely be lower, and more distortion free, at louder levels than the Bic.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24488 of 24614 Old 08-17-2016, 08:18 PM
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My first impressions of the PC12-NSD.
Hmmm. Not very exciting..
Now that could be due to the sub position in the room and/or a bad Audyssey run.
I positioned the midway on the length of my room (a bit in front of where ed A2-300 used to be).
The eD sub gave fantastic tactile feedback. (It's a near field position).
To get similar tactile feedback from PC12, I have to bump the level by at least 7-8 dB.

Next order of business is to re-position it at optimum spot using REW measurements.
Re-run Audyssey. If that works, it might stay.
If not, it will be boxed up.
I will rather look for a used a2-300 instead to pair with the existing one.

So let's see how that goes.
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post #24489 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by raxxx View Post
Did you buy your SB1000 for music only? How does it do movies compared to a ported sub?( Not sure if you own other subs) Thanks!
Movies only in a sealed bedroom. I have owned the SB12 NSD, SB13 ULTRA and now a SB1000. I like sealed subs better.

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post #24490 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 06:04 AM
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Movies only in a sealed bedroom. I have owned the SB12 NSD, SB13 ULTRA and now a SB1000. I like sealed subs better.
That is interesting. I am looking to buy a sub, and everyone is telling me that a sealed sub is better for music, and ported is better for movies.
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post #24491 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I would be inclined to trust my instincts if you feel that the Bic isn't giving you the bass you want. Sometimes a sub can shake the walls and still not actually sound very good. It's hard to be sure how much difference in frequency response you would notice between the Bic and a PB2000, above about 35Hz, for instance. Both would do pretty well. But according to Data-Bass, the Bic drops like a rock below about 35Hz, while the PB12 NSD keeps going under 20Hz. The PB2000 would be expected to get just a tiny bit better response than the NSD, so I think that what you would get is a much better low end, down to about 15Hz or 16Hz in-room. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

I think that low end is what you are missing. The chest punch feeling occurs higher up, as do some frequencies that will rattle things in the room, for instance. But the low bass sort of anchors the whole movie experience for me. You really want to be able to get at least to about 20Hz with some authority.

If I were going to upgrade from the Bic, though, I think I would go with the 2000. That would be a more dramatic difference than the 1000, and your room is big enough to warrant the larger sub. And the bass would definitely be lower, and more distortion free, at louder levels than the Bic.

Regards,
Mike

Just placed an order for a PB2000 from the SVS outlet section. I figure worst case scenario, i can return it without any real loss if i dont love it.
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post #24492 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 07:33 AM
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Oh you will definitely love it. The PB-2000 is in a whole different league than the pl-200. I had a BIC F-12 as a starter sub and went to 2 SB12-NSD's but even one of those small sealed subs out performed the F12.

I now have 2 PC-2000's and even just running one of those outdoes the 2 sealed NSD's in my room 2 is just beyond awesome for me. The PB-2000 gets rave reviews and is supposed to be identical performance wise to the PC-2000 so it has to be a beast. I think you will be very very happy with the upgrade and eventually go dual lol.
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post #24493 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 07:36 AM
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That is interesting. I am looking to buy a sub, and everyone is telling me that a sealed sub is better for music, and ported is better for movies.

I probably ought to leave this one alone, but I am not sure that there is a clear consensus on this. I think it is something you will probably have to judge for yourself. Ported subs are generally more powerful, with larger cabinets, and that makes them more effective for movies which require high output at frequencies of 20Hz and lower.

Is there a noticeable difference in sound quality? I guess it depends on who you ask. As far as I know, there isn't any evidence that people can reliably distinguish between competent and comparable, ported and sealed subs, in blind listening tests. But that doesn't mean that there can't be a difference--only that it may be very subtle to most people.

If someone says that he prefers sealed subs, I believe him. If you honestly don't know what you prefer, I would probably make my sub selection based on overall performance. And for most people that means output. The vast majority of people who buy ported subs end up being very pleased.

One thing that has always confused me a little is, if ported subs aren't very good for music, why are ported speakers so acceptable? Nearly all of the speakers that go under about 60Hz these days are ported. Many with even less extension are also ported. If there is something inherently inferior about the technology of porting, compared to sealed, why are almost all of the music audiophiles happily using ported speakers? I'm not trying to be unkind or argumentative. I have always thought that was a fair question.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24494 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Edit : One thing noticed though. There is no port plug included, neither the "cd". Not that I care about them much.
Variable Tuning Frequencies is a feature that is only on the Plus and Ultra, that's why you don't have a port plug.
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post #24495 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 08:55 AM
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I probably ought to leave this one alone, but I am not sure that there is a clear consensus on this. I think it is something you will probably have to judge for yourself. Ported subs are generally more powerful, with larger cabinets, and that makes them more effective for movies which require high output at frequencies of 20Hz and lower.

Is there a noticeable difference in sound quality? I guess it depends on who you ask. As far as I know, there isn't any evidence that people can reliably distinguish between competent and comparable, ported and sealed subs, in blind listening tests. But that doesn't mean that there can't be a difference--only that it may be very subtle to most people.

If someone says that he prefers sealed subs, I believe him. If you honestly don't know what you prefer, I would probably make my sub selection based on overall performance. And for most people that means output. The vast majority of people who buy ported subs end up being very pleased.

One thing that has always confused me a little is, if ported subs aren't very good for music, why are ported speakers so acceptable? Nearly all of the speakers that go under about 60Hz these days are ported. Many with even less extension are also ported. If there is something inherently inferior about the technology of porting, compared to sealed, why are almost all of the music audiophiles happily using ported speakers? I'm not trying to be unkind or argumentative. I have always thought that was a fair question.

Regards,
Mike
I think this remains, even among a lot of people on this site, one of the biggest myths with subwoofers. There have been several blind tests done where people are unable to tell the difference between ported and sealed. The advantage of sealed is that you are going to have a more gradual roll off and more output above 60hz (I may be off on that). Ported is going to have a significant advantage in terms of DB at most frequencies that people are actually going to care about with a sub. My understanding is that it would take 4 SB13-Ultra's to hit the same output as a single ported version. As for one sounding better then the other, there is no evidence out there that suggests that the difference is anything more then a placebo effect.

I'm always a big advocate for taking the measurements and seeing what actually is giving better performance. I had my sub corner loaded and was sure that it sounded better in the corner then where I would ultimately move it to at the recommendation of the guys over at GIK Acoustics. Even after moving it I thought that it sounded better in the corner, but took the time to do the REW measurements in both spots. Sure enough I was wrong and the new location gave me significantly better performance. Point is, I really wanted to keep my sub in the corner, had a bias, and that was impacting my impressions.
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post #24496 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 01:31 PM
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That is interesting. I am looking to buy a sub, and everyone is telling me that a sealed sub is better for music, and ported is better for movies.
I think this is because, in general, a sealed sub is smaller, and there is less materials, research, tuning, and technology involved, so they generally cost less than comparable ported subs. Sealed subs, in general, also have less output below the audible frequencies than ported subs than ported subs.

People don't say sealed subs are better for music because they are, in fact better for music; they say that because if you are using it strictly for music, a ported sub may be bigger and more expensive than you need.

A good ported is perfectly capable of "keeping up with fast music". It just may take up more space, and have more capability than you need if you aren't going to be using it for Low Frequency Effects of movie soundtracks.

Its a personal choice.

Edit: Somebody steer me back on course if I'm drifting. This seems to be what I'm picking up on the whole "better for music/better for movies" thing...
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post #24497 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
+1

The 13.5" Ultra compares favorably with a number of 15" and even 18" subs, so it's no surprise to me that a PB1000, with a 10" driver, would compare favorably to many 12" subs. SVS makes good subwoofers!

Glad to hear you are enjoying your PC2000's. You are amassing quite a collection.
Oh, man. I have one PC2000 behind the TV, and one on the back wall; PB1000 on the center of the left wall. Probably not ideal (I haven't used REW to properly place them yet), but its impressive. Movies are blowing me away, at a more manageable volume than previously. Last night, listening to music, no matter where I stood in the room, it seemed like the bass was coming from my main speakers, even when standing right next to the PC on the back wall. This leads me to believe my placement might be pretty close And that the amount of subwoofer I now have is sufficient.

Pretty excited.
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post #24498 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 02:09 PM
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My first impressions of the PC12-NSD.
Hmmm. Not very exciting..
Now that could be due to the sub position in the room and/or a bad Audyssey run.
I positioned the midway on the length of my room (a bit in front of where ed A2-300 used to be).
The eD sub gave fantastic tactile feedback. (It's a near field position).
To get similar tactile feedback from PC12, I have to bump the level by at least 7-8 dB.

Next order of business is to re-position it at optimum spot using REW measurements.
Re-run Audyssey. If that works, it might stay.
If not, it will be boxed up.
I will rather look for a used a2-300 instead to pair with the existing one.

So let's see how that goes.
Not sure if you are increasing the level at the receiver or the sub amp. Sub amp gain knob really has no correlation to what the gain would be set at on a different sub. One sub you might have the gain set at 10 o'clock and another sub might need to be set to 3 o'clock to achieve the same output level.

Keep us posted on how it goes. If you end up returning it, I would love to be able to snag it once SVS relists it.
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post #24499 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 03:37 PM
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Oh, man. I have one PC2000 behind the TV, and one on the back wall; PB1000 on the center of the left wall. Probably not ideal (I haven't used REW to properly place them yet), but its impressive. Movies are blowing me away, at a more manageable volume than previously. Last night, listening to music, no matter where I stood in the room, it seemed like the bass was coming from my main speakers, even when standing right next to the PC on the back wall. This leads me to believe my placement might be pretty close And that the amount of subwoofer I now have is sufficient.

Pretty excited.
New subs are extremely exciting, and I'm glad that you are enjoying yours!

FWIW, it sounds to me as if you are pretty close to a Geddes (Dr Earl Geddes) configuration. A more-or-less triangular arrangement involving three opposing walls. Your arrangement with one sub behind the display, one behind the MLP on a different wall, and one at right angles, is very close to my current arrangement, which also gives a very good frequency response throughout the room.

It will be very interesting to learn your results when you measure. If it's not quite what you want, try going closer to 1/4 wall for the one on the left wall.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24500 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 04:05 PM
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That is interesting. I am looking to buy a sub, and everyone is telling me that a sealed sub is better for music, and ported is better for movies.
Sealed sounds much more snappy to me and cleaner.
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post #24501 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 05:24 PM
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Not sure if you are increasing the level at the receiver or the sub amp. Sub amp gain knob really has no correlation to what the gain would be set at on a different sub. One sub you might have the gain set at 10 o'clock and another sub might need to be set to 3 o'clock to achieve the same output level.
I am increasing it at receiver. Once Audyssey is run, there is no touching the sub knob..

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Keep us posted on how it goes. If you end up returning it, I would love to be able to snag it once SVS relists it.
Sure thing. May be you can cut a deal with SVS in advance (once I confirm my return). May be if they allow and you are okay, they might as well send me a label to your address instead. I don't know if that will work though..
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post #24502 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
My first impressions of the PC12-NSD.
Hmmm. Not very exciting..
Now that could be due to the sub position in the room and/or a bad Audyssey run.
I positioned the midway on the length of my room (a bit in front of where ed A2-300 used to be).
The eD sub gave fantastic tactile feedback. (It's a near field position).
To get similar tactile feedback from PC12, I have to bump the level by at least 7-8 dB.

Next order of business is to re-position it at optimum spot using REW measurements.
Re-run Audyssey. If that works, it might stay.
If not, it will be boxed up.
I will rather look for a used a2-300 instead to pair with the existing one.

So let's see how that goes.

Did REW and positioning to optimal spot.
Another Audyssey run.
Tested known stuff with good bass passages.
I am surprised, the cone kinda rattles at one of the test passages where there is a loud gun shot.
I first thought the wall rattled, and it's not sub bottoming out, it just a weird rattle after the gunshot.
This has never happened with the eD. It had handled it pretty good.

I am not too happy.
This will be boxed up this weekend for a return trip.

I guess I will stick with the eD till it gives up on me.


Edit : Cone rattle may not be the right term. I guess it's the coil that makes the noise.

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post #24503 of 24614 Old 08-18-2016, 08:31 PM
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From what I have read, I am going with the PB-1000 for now. Ported subs have a more "fun" sound, while sealed have a more flat reference sound.

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post #24504 of 24614 Old 08-19-2016, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raxxx View Post
From what I have read, I am going with the PB-1000 for now. Ported subs have a more "fun" sound, while sealed have a more flat reference sound.
Ported gives you more output at the majority of frequencies, but with a steeper roll-off. Sealed by comparison is going to give you less overall output but with a more gradual roll-off. Possibly the biggest difference is that sealed subs are smaller than ported subs, so if size is a major issue sealed will generally win the day. My guess is the "fun" sound that you describe from a ported sub is in reference to the fact that it has more output and therefore is delivering more output at lower frequencies. Speaking from experience, with work (and in my case at least, multiple subs, acoustic treatments, Audyssey XT32, and a lot of cursing and tinkering) you can get a flat in-room response from ported subs. While I’ve never really had a sealed sub (technically both my Plus and Ultra can run as sealed, but beyond playing around I never actually run them sealed) I would assume that getting a flat in-room response from a sealed sub is going to be just as much work as it is with a ported sub.

Here are my recommendations for both you and anybody trying to decide between sealed and ported.

What is your primary use: If you listen to only music then you should be fine with sealed subs (multiple subs are required for a flat response). The vast majority of bass in music is going to be above 40hz, in which case sealed will get the job done. If you're a big fan of the pipe organ, ported would be a better option. Movies tend to have much lower bass, regularly in the 20hz range and often times down into the teens and single digits. A sealed sub is not going to be able to reproduce bass that deep with anywhere near the authority that a ported sub will. If you plan to be watching movies, ported is going to be the best option. Now I want to clear up one thing here, just because I say that sealed will get the job done on music it is not the same as me saying that ported subs won't do the same. Ported subs will give you the same performance on music as a sealed sub. Sealed will get the job done with music, but ported will get the same job done just as well.

Location: Here is where I think sealed really shines. Ported subs are generally much larger and much harder to hide. For those of us lucky enough to have a dedicated theater this isn't that big of a problem. However, for the rest of the people here (and I've been on both sides of this at different points) who are running their system in living room a ported sub might not be the best option. In a world filled with compromises it's much more difficult to hide a ported sub then it is a sealed sub. If size is an issue, sealed is going to be a better option.

Cost: Typically sealed subs are a little bit cheaper. As somebody said above me, that is probably due to the fact that they are smaller and therefore require less materials to build. In the case of the PB-1000 vs. SB-1000 I actually don't believe there is a cost difference.

Overall: If you're going to be watching movies on your system and you have the space, ported is going to be the better option. You'll have more output and will be able to hit much deeper with a lot more authority. If you're only planning on listening to music (again, if you're a pipe organ aficionado disregard) only then a sealed sub should be fine. What you shouldn't do is buy a sub on the basis that one is going to "sound fun" or “have a more reference sound." That is bad advice as both ported and sealed are both going to sound the same. Don't fall for the myth that sealed is going to have a tighter sound then ported, or that ported isn't fast enough for music, these are nothing more than myths that have become widely adopted as truth.

Of course, as I said in other posts, when in doubt look at the measurements. The link below will take you to Data-Bass and is looking at the SVS PB-13 Ultra. It will show you the basic response in all three modes, sealed, 15hz tune, and wide open. This response does a good job of also showing the actual differences between sealed and ported subs.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=61
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post #24505 of 24614 Old 08-19-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
Ported gives you more output at the majority of frequencies, but with a steeper roll-off. Sealed by comparison is going to give you less overall output but with a more gradual roll-off. Possibly the biggest difference is that sealed subs are smaller than ported subs, so if size is a major issue sealed will generally win the day. My guess is the "fun" sound that you describe from a ported sub is in reference to the fact that it has more output and therefore is delivering more output at lower frequencies. Speaking from experience, with work (and in my case at least, multiple subs, acoustic treatments, Audyssey XT32, and a lot of cursing and tinkering) you can get a flat in-room response from ported subs. While I’ve never really had a sealed sub (technically both my Plus and Ultra can run as sealed, but beyond playing around I never actually run them sealed) I would assume that getting a flat in-room response from a sealed sub is going to be just as much work as it is with a ported sub.

Here are my recommendations for both you and anybody trying to decide between sealed and ported.

What is your primary use: If you listen to only music then you should be fine with sealed subs (multiple subs are required for a flat response). The vast majority of bass in music is going to be above 40hz, in which case sealed will get the job done. If you're a big fan of the pipe organ, ported would be a better option. Movies tend to have much lower bass, regularly in the 20hz range and often times down into the teens and single digits. A sealed sub is not going to be able to reproduce bass that deep with anywhere near the authority that a ported sub will. If you plan to be watching movies, ported is going to be the best option. Now I want to clear up one thing here, just because I say that sealed will get the job done on music it is not the same as me saying that ported subs won't do the same. Ported subs will give you the same performance on music as a sealed sub. Sealed will get the job done with music, but ported will get the same job done just as well.

Location: Here is where I think sealed really shines. Ported subs are generally much larger and much harder to hide. For those of us lucky enough to have a dedicated theater this isn't that big of a problem. However, for the rest of the people here (and I've been on both sides of this at different points) who are running their system in living room a ported sub might not be the best option. In a world filled with compromises it's much more difficult to hide a ported sub then it is a sealed sub. If size is an issue, sealed is going to be a better option.

Cost: Typically sealed subs are a little bit cheaper. As somebody said above me, that is probably due to the fact that they are smaller and therefore require less materials to build. In the case of the PB-1000 vs. SB-1000 I actually don't believe there is a cost difference.

Overall: If you're going to be watching movies on your system and you have the space, ported is going to be the better option. You'll have more output and will be able to hit much deeper with a lot more authority. If you're only planning on listening to music (again, if you're a pipe organ aficionado disregard) only then a sealed sub should be fine. What you shouldn't do is buy a sub on the basis that one is going to "sound fun" or “have a more reference sound." That is bad advice as both ported and sealed are both going to sound the same. Don't fall for the myth that sealed is going to have a tighter sound then ported, or that ported isn't fast enough for music, these are nothing more than myths that have become widely adopted as truth.

Of course, as I said in other posts, when in doubt look at the measurements. The link below will take you to Data-Bass and is looking at the SVS PB-13 Ultra. It will show you the basic response in all three modes, sealed, 15hz tune, and wide open. This response does a good job of also showing the actual differences between sealed and ported subs.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=61

I want to add a couple caveats to this from my own information gleamed around the web (including data-bass):

1. Multiple large driver sealed subs are needed (in general) for single digit hz reference level playback - because ported subs drop off too quickly after the tuning point. If you are inclined for 5Hz playback at 120dB, you'll probably want to DIY yourself several (or more) 18" subs with powerful amplification.

2. I haven't ever owned a sealed sub, so please take this as it is - but I believe that a ported sub (based upon my measurements in REW and taking with SVS support) will have a longer decay time (waterfall graph) around the port tune whereas a sealed sub will not have a longer decay around the port tune. This could contribute to some people liking the "clean" sound of sealed vs. the "boomy" sound of ported, but I don't know if those measurements add up to a audible difference in real world applications.
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Currently watching on: BenQ W1070, 106" 0.8 Gain Monoprice Multi-format Screen, Darbee, PS4, w/ Yamaha Aventage RX-A1030, NAD C370 (for Front L/R), SVS PB-2000, SVS PC-2000, a Def Tech CS-8040HD, 2 SM65 for L/R, 2 SM55 for sides, and 2 PM1000 for rears.
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post #24506 of 24614 Old 08-19-2016, 07:51 AM
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Allen,

While I agree with the majority of your post, this is not correct.

Quote:
You'll have more output and will be able to hit much deeper with a lot more authority.
Ported subs will have more output than sealed around port tune, but the sealed sub will usually have more output both above and below* (*depending on room gain).

Also, as fred pointed out, if you want to get into the single digits, sealed is the better option (although this can get quite expensive unless you are going to DIY).
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post #24507 of 24614 Old 08-19-2016, 08:55 AM
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Great discussion! The first post, from Allen, did an excellent job of summarizing the pros and cons of ported and sealed subs. According to what I have read, one additional cost factor with ported subs, is the porting itself, and the additional effort in both R&D, and in DSP, required to get the port dimensions and location, and the amplifier, to correspond to the targeted tuning point. It's much easier to just put a driver and an amplifier in a sealed box, of specific dimensions, add DSP, and allow the sealed sub to play as far down as it can. With ported subs, you are deliberately trying to maximize power within a specific frequency range, and that is more complicated, and has trade-offs in terms of a steeper drop-off below port tune.

I might make one addition to Alan's comment about the output advantages of a sealed sub. Typically, it isn't just at the tuning point, that a ported sub has an output advantage over a sealed sub. With most commercial subs, at least, there is an output advantage from about the tuning point up to somewhere in the lower portion of the mid-bass region. With SVS subs, and using Ultras as an example, the PB (in 16Hz tune) has a 10db, or greater, advantage from the tuning point of 16Hz up through 25Hz, and maintains an advantage of several db up to 63Hz, where the advantage shifts slightly toward the SD. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

And both ported and sealed subs benefit from room gain, so even below port tune, a ported sub may be able to produce meaningful output, depending on specific room modes. Most DIY subs are sealed, but I have speculated that the difficulty in building ported subs (compared to sealed subs) may be part of the reason. I think that sealed subs, if you have enough of them for the room size, can offer better opportunities to get to, or below 10Hz, as noted in the posts above. And I think that they also offer a slight benefit in the mid-bass. For the Ultras, that slight advantage starts at about 63Hz, but never amounts to more than a db or two. But between port tune and about 50Hz or so, a ported sub may offer much more per-unit output than a comparable sealed sub, depending on the specific make of sub.

The bottom line, IMO, is that both subs have advantages, and both can provide very satisfactory results in an HT system.
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post #24508 of 24614 Old 08-19-2016, 08:59 AM
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That is interesting. I am looking to buy a sub, and everyone is telling me that a sealed sub is better for music, and ported is better for movies.
Myth...its more simply that some prefer a subs that has a gradual roll off in the FR, which makes the bass sound less bottom heavy. I have owned the SB12, PC12, XV15, XV15se, and 15v...imo they all sound great when placed and correctly setup. 15v takes the cake so far in terms of overall output, extension, and SQ.

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Allen,

While I agree with the majority of your post, this is not correct.



Ported subs will have more output than sealed around port tune, but the sealed sub will usually have more output both above and below* (*depending on room gain).

Also, as fred pointed out, if you want to get into the single digits, sealed is the better option (although this can get quite expensive unless you are going to DIY).
That's an excellent point, not sure how I just totally ignored that fact. So yes, as an addendum to my post, because sealed subs are going to have a much more gradual roll-off as compared to a ported sub, below the port tune the sealed sub is going to regain the advantage.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I might make one addition to Alan's comment about the output advantages of a sealed sub. Typically, it isn't just at the tuning point, that a ported sub has an output advantage over a sealed sub. With most commercial subs, at least, there is an output advantage from about the tuning point up to somewhere in the lower portion of the mid-bass region. With SVS subs, and using Ultras as an example, the PB (in 16Hz tune) has a 10db, or greater, advantage from the tuning point of 16Hz up through 25Hz, and maintains an advantage of several db up to 63Hz, where the advantage shifts slightly toward the SD. http://www.data-bass.com/systems
You are right again Mike!

Apparently the difference between output above port tune is much less for SVS subs than PSA (my subs). My mistake.
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