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post #24481 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 05:33 AM
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Unhappy A little worried about SVS

Hello all,
I just received my pb-2000 yesterday and I have a few concerns;
1) The PB-2000 is replacing a BIC PL-200 that is working great but I thought it would be an upgrade to go with the SVS and I am just not getting the output level that I was with the pl-200. Now dont get me wrong I can tell that the SVS is reaching a little deeper but its just not as loud as the pl-200.

I have heard that subs tend to need so time to really break in so am i just being overly concerned? The sub is turned up half way on the volume on the back and the receiver is set exactly where it was with the old sub (even after running my auto set up), phase set to 0degrees, and placement of the sub is the exact same place as it was with the old sub.

Thoughts would be welcome and thanks ahead of time.

Last edited by miked053; 08-23-2016 at 08:05 AM.
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post #24482 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks mthomas, when i play music at higher than 35hz would you advise using my main speakers MA Plat200 or using/blocking the port/ports to make the PB13U sealed,
would this also give PB13U a similar performance to 1 or two SB13U's?

Or should i just turn the sub/subs off for music?
I would leave the sub running either in the 20hz or 15hz tune. I would also leave them on during music, they'll definitely help whatever the situation. Ported subs can handle music just fine, and I think you will enjoy the extra output the ported Ultra provides. Again, generally speaking, there is no difference between ported and sealed subs for music.

Personally I run my subs with one port plugged. This gives me the lower port tune as well as the extra output you get from a ported sub. It has always seemed like the best compromise for my theater. This also is one of the real advantages of the ported Ultra, unless you're absolutely convinced that sealed is what you want, the variable tuning gives you a lot of flexibility.

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post #24483 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 07:20 AM
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Thanks Allen

Never really had a decent sub, my preference is 70/30 movies, and after much reading SVS/various forums the SB13u is fantastic for music and not to shabby with movies either. Just assumed(rightly or wrongly) that the PB13U bunged might improve its performance similar to SB13U, sort of best of both worlds, ported and sealed in one box.

I am currently reading this thread, from about April onwards currently at 23911, it's quite a learning curve and time consuming. Leaning towards buying PB13U at the moment later in the week.
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post #24484 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks mthomas, when i play music at higher than 35hz would you advise using my main speakers MA Plat200 or using/blocking the port/ports to make the PB13U sealed,
would this also give PB13U a similar performance to 1 or two SB13U's?

Or should i just turn the sub/subs off for music?
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I would leave the sub running either in the 20hz or 15hz tune. I would also leave them on during music, they'll definitely help whatever the situation. Ported subs can handle music just fine, and I think you will enjoy the extra output the ported Ultra provides. Again, generally speaking, there is no difference between ported and sealed subs for music.

Personally I run my subs with one port plugged. This gives me the lower port tune as well as the extra output you get from a ported sub. It has always seemed like the best compromise for my theater. This also is one of the real advantages of the ported Ultra, unless you're absolutely convinced that sealed is what you want, the variable tuning gives you a lot of flexibility.
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks Allen

Never really had a decent sub, my preference is 70/30 movies, and after much reading SVS/various forums the SB13u is fantastic for music and not to shabby with movies either. Just assumed(rightly or wrongly) that the PB13U bunged might improve its performance similar to SB13U, sort of best of both worlds, ported and sealed in one box.

I am currently reading this thread, from about April onwards currently at 23911, it's quite a learning curve and time consuming. Leaning towards buying PB13U at the moment later in the week.

One of the nice things about this hobby is that we never stop learning something new. And I see that even with the real audio professionals on the forum. I would start with the PB13 in the 15Hz port tune mode (one port plugged). That is really where the PB13 was designed to excell, and that is where it will give you the most versatile and dynamic performance. And frankly, switching back and forth between ported and sealed, going from movies to music, would be a pain. I agree with Allen that you will get excellent performance for music with your sub(s) in ported mode.

As for whether you will prefer to run your sub with music, since you already have pretty competent main speakers, that is purely a matter of personal preference. Most people do prefer to bass manage their speakers all the time, and run their subs all the time. Other people switch back and forth sometimes, depending on what they are listening to. With speakers that go down to about 35Hz, I would probably experiment with both an 80Hz crossover and a 60Hz crossover.

Unless you are listening to a lot of bass-heavy synthesized music, the following rule-of-thumb applies mostly to 5.1 movies. But it's generally a good policy to set speaker crossovers about an octave higher than their F3 point, and definitely at least a half octave higher. So, if your speakers go down to about 30-35Hz in-room, it would be a good idea to set at least a 60Hz crossover to protect them during explosions and the like, and to make the subs do the really heavy lifting. (So, 2.0 or 1.5 times the frequency where the speaker is down by 3db.) At the same time, a 60Hz crossover can sometimes augment the mid-bass chest punch (~50Hz to 100Hz) a little better than an 80Hz crossover. So, you can just experiment to find out what works best for your individual speakers and room. I hope you don't mind that additional advice regarding crossovers.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24485 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miked053 View Post
Hello all,
I just received my pb-2000 yesterday and I have a few concerns;
1) The PB-2000 is replacing a BIC PL-200 that is working great but I thought it would be an upgrade to go with the SVS and I am just not getting the output level that I was with the pl-200. Now dont get me wrong I can tell that the SVS is reaching a little deeper but its just not as loud as the pl-200.

I have heard that subs tend to need so time to really break in so am i just being overly concerned? The sub is turned up half way on the volume on the back and the receiver is set exactly where it was with the old sub (even after running my auto set up), phase set to 0degrees, and placement of the sub is the exact same place as it was with the old sub.

Thoughts would be welcome and thanks ahead of time.
I had the same problem when I went from a Klipsch RW12D to the SB13. At first I thought the SB was kinda soft. Your use to the muddy bass of the BIC as I was with the Klipsch. The SVS's are really smooth and detailed. I suggest turning the volume on the sub to around 1-2 o'clock. Rerun calibration. Watch some movies with heavy bass that your accustomed too. Give it some time.
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post #24486 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miked053 View Post
Hello all,
I just received my pb-2000 yesterday and I have a few concerns;
1) The PB-2000 is replacing a BIC PL-200 that is working great but I thought it would be an upgrade to go with the SVS and I am just not getting the output level that I was with the pl-200. Now dont get me wrong I can tell that the SVS is reaching a little deeper but its just not as loud as the pl-200.

I have heard that subs tend to need so time to really break in so am i just being overly concerned? The sub is turned up half way on the volume on the back and the receiver is set exactly where it was with the old sub (even after running my auto set up), phase set to 0degrees, and placement of the sub is the exact same place as it was with the old sub.

Thoughts would be welcome and thanks ahead of time.
Hi,

I agree with the advice that cchunter gave you. It's not a break-in issue. It's probably mostly a calibration issue, combined with hearing less distortion (which can make bass sound louder). When you turn up your gain knob a little, you will be trying to get the trim level in the AVR to a good negative number, such as -6 or -8, or even a little lower, as long as you aren't right on the trim limit. (That's +/- 12 on Denon/Marantz and +/- 10? on Yamaha.) Then, post-calibration, just increase your trim level by what ever amount you need to get the bass you want. But, try to stay below 0.0 in trim level in the AVR.

Let us know how that works.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24487 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 10:26 AM
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Thanks again,

Can anyone explain why the max output on SVS website are much lower than data-bass figures. There is below the graphs an asterisk,

* Frequency response graph does not denote maximum output capability

Scroll down to tech info
http://www.svsound.com/products/pb13-ultra

http://www.data-bass.com/systems
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post #24488 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 10:27 AM
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Been on chat online at SVS, guy could not explain why, said he would need to speak to his manager tomorrow.
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post #24489 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks again,

Can anyone explain why the max output on SVS website are much lower than data-bass figures. There is below the graphs an asterisk,

* Frequency response graph does not denote maximum output capability

Scroll down to tech info
http://www.svsound.com/products/pb13-ultra

http://www.data-bass.com/systems
You are welcome! The SVS graphs are simply comparing the frequency response characteristics at an average SPL of about 90db. So, there is no attempt to push the sub to its limits in any of the modes, but simply to compare the general shape or slope of those modes. The Data-Bass tests are conducted using similar testing parameters for any sub tests, and an attempt is made to push the tested subs to their limits, not only to find out where the drop in response occurs, but also to determine how much distortion occurs, as well. The SVS graphs just give you a general idea of how the various modes of a PB13 compare to each other. The Data-Bass tests are considered the gold standard for comparing actual apples-to-apples sub performance of different models and makes of sub.
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post #24490 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 11:25 AM
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I decided to add something to an earlier post regarding the relative difficulty of going back-and-forth between sealed mode and ported mode for different types of listening, such as music and movies.

I have always wondered how much changing modes would affect an Audyssey calibration. To the extent that Audyssey is providing meaningful EQ in the modal region below about 120Hz, I believe that changing modes would pretty well invalidate that EQ. In some parts of the sub range, the frequency response between a PB13 in sealed mode, and a PB13 in 15Hz port mode is fairly similar. But in other places it is very different, and that is even before the room gets a hold of the sub and exerts its own influences. So, I would be very reluctant to change modes, without also changing calibrations, particularly if the modes in question were going from ported to sealed, or vice versa.
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post #24491 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I agree with the advice that cchunter gave you. It's not a break-in issue. It's probably mostly a calibration issue, combined with hearing less distortion (which can make bass sound louder). When you turn up your gain knob a little, you will be trying to get the trim level in the AVR to a good negative number, such as -6 or -8, or even a little lower, as long as you aren't right on the trim limit. (That's +/- 12 on Denon/Marantz and +/- 10? on Yamaha.) Then, post-calibration, just increase your trim level by what ever amount you need to get the bass you want. But, try to stay below 0.0 in trim level in the AVR.

Let us know how that works.

Regards,
Mike
Mike I have the Onkyo TX-NR646 and right now when I go into the "Level Calibration" menu under the speaker settings the sub is set at +3 (I think the range is -15db to +12db). With the room size being 15x18x10 and open to a hallway on one side and the dinnig room on another (both sides fully open) I cant imagine the level being set that low no mater how much I turn up the gain on the sub. Am I missing something here? I am sure you guys are correct but the SVS just seems so much more subdued even with music with strong bass tracks I just dont feel the punch.

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post #24492 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 11:48 AM
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Thanks again, clears that up, shame the SVS guy did no Know.
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post #24493 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by miked053 View Post
Mike I have the Onkyo TX-NR646 and right now when I go into the "Level Calibration" menu under the speaker settings the sub is set at +3 (I think the range is -15db to +12db). With the room size being 15x18x10 and open to a hallway on one side and the dinnig room on another (both sides fully open) I cant imagine the level being set that low no mater how much I turn up the gain on the sub. Am I missing something here? I am sure you guys are correct but the SVS just seems so much more subdued even with music with strong bass tracks I just dont feel the punch.
Hi Mike,

I don't know. It may be that the sub is not in a very good spot, although I remember you said that's where you had your old one. Doing a sub crawl to verify that the sub is in the right place might help. Sometimes moving a sub by only a few inches can make a difference.

But the gain control could be a factor too. The gain control increases exponentially. So you can have it at 10:00, and it barely registers any volume at all, and you barely move it to 12:00, and you are suddenly much louder. If you are sure that your sub is in the best spot, re-calibrate with a higher gain. Again, your goal here would be to get a trim level that was solidly negative. Why don't you try to shoot for about -10, or even lower? Then post-calibration, with your sub trim at -10, you could add 10db to 0.0. That would make the sub literally twice as loud, not counting any increases in master volume. Once you get the sub dialed in properly, you should feel a lot more punch than you do now.

Regards,
Mike
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post #24494 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Mike,

I don't know. It may be that the sub is not in a very good spot, although I remember you said that's where you had your old one. Doing a sub crawl to verify that the sub is in the right place might help. Sometimes moving a sub by only a few inches can make a difference.

But the gain control could be a factor too. The gain control increases exponentially. So you can have it at 10:00, and it barely registers any volume at all, and you barely move it to 12:00, and you are suddenly much louder. If you are sure that your sub is in the best spot, re-calibrate with a higher gain. Again, your goal here would be to get a trim level that was solidly negative. Why don't you try to shoot for about -10, or even lower? Then post-calibration, with your sub trim at -10, you could add 10db to 0.0. That would make the sub literally twice as loud, not counting any increases in master volume. Once you get the sub dialed in properly, you should feel a lot more punch than you do now.

Regards,
Mike
As far as placement goes it is in the only corner of the room and really the only place I can put it. Even though I know it might not be the "perfect" place its the only real option and is were it sounded best when I did the crawl with the old sub. The placement I had the BIC in originally (towards the middle of the wall near the end of the entertainment center) sounded a lot like the svs does now and got louder when it was moved to the corner maybe the opposite is true now?

Ok just for clarifacation I should go home and set the volume on the back of the sub to about the 1-2pm area, then go in and set the calibration level to -10, then run auto eq, then go in and adjust the calibration level again if needed?

Also, when you start the auto eq process with onkyo it plays a test tone through the sub and says to make sure you can hear it. When I did this yesterday it was a very quiet pink noise tone so turning up the gain before running the eq might help like you said.

Last edited by miked053; 08-23-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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post #24495 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 01:03 PM
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As far as placement goes it is in the only corner of the room and really the only place I can put it. Even though I know it might not be the "perfect" place its the only real option and is were it sounded best when I did the crawl with the old sub. The placement I had the BIC in originally (towards the middle of the wall near the end of the entertainment center) sounded a lot like the svs does now and got louder when it was moved to the corner maybe the opposite is true now?

Ok just for clarifacation I should go home and set the volume on the back of the sub to about the 1-2pm area, then go in and set the calibration level to -10, then run auto eq, then go in and adjust the calibration level again if needed?

Also, when you start the auto eq process with onkyo it plays a test tone through the sub and says to make sure you can hear it. When I did this yesterday it was a very quiet pink noise tone so turning up the gain before running the eq might help like you said.

I think that turning up the gain will help, but don't worry about setting the trim level manually prior to the calibration. Your Auto EQ will ignore prior settings, and will set your trim level automatically, based on what the microphone "hears" at the MLP. If the pink noise sounded soft to you, then it sounded soft to the microphone too, and that's why it set the trim at +3. There is some trial-and-error involved to get the trim level where you want it, so you may have to spend a few minutes on this, adjusting the gain up and down, before you get your Onkyo to calibrate the trim level to about -10, or so. That means that you may have to run Auto EQ more than once. But once you do get there, you will be able to turn up your sub volume, in your Onkyo, any time you want to get the effect that you want.

Last edited by mthomas47; 08-23-2016 at 01:13 PM.
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post #24496 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by miked053 View Post
Hello all,
I just received my pb-2000 yesterday and I have a few concerns;
1) The PB-2000 is replacing a BIC PL-200 that is working great but I thought it would be an upgrade to go with the SVS and I am just not getting the output level that I was with the pl-200. Now dont get me wrong I can tell that the SVS is reaching a little deeper but its just not as loud as the pl-200.

I have heard that subs tend to need so time to really break in so am i just being overly concerned? The sub is turned up half way on the volume on the back and the receiver is set exactly where it was with the old sub (even after running my auto set up), phase set to 0degrees, and placement of the sub is the exact same place as it was with the old sub.

Thoughts would be welcome and thanks ahead of time.
Cheaper subs have a "mid-bass hump" in their response. This makes the sub louder in this range than it really should be. The PL-200 has a hump around 40-50Hz, then it slopes off below that. A good quality sub will have a more accurate, linear response. SVS subs have a very linear response. A lot of bass, especially in music, is in the 40-80Hz range. You have grown accustomed to the PL-200, which isn't an accurate sub. Take a look at the basic response graph for the PL-200. Looks like a mountain with a peak. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=47&mset=45
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post #24497 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 04:56 PM
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Hey guys, what's the major differences between the SB13 Plus and the SB 13 Ultra? A buddy of mine has a single plus and is thinking of flipping to dual ultras. But would he be ok with just adding one Ultra and keeping the Plus? Would they play nice or would there always be that shadow of doubt?
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post #24498 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 05:17 PM
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Mike I have the Onkyo TX-NR646 and right now when I go into the "Level Calibration" menu under the speaker settings the sub is set at +3 (I think the range is -15db to +12db). With the room size being 15x18x10 and open to a hallway on one side and the dinnig room on another (both sides fully open) I cant imagine the level being set that low no mater how much I turn up the gain on the sub. Am I missing something here? I am sure you guys are correct but the SVS just seems so much more subdued even with music with strong bass tracks I just dont feel the punch.
You need to turn the gain up on the sub. Way too low imo. After calibration ideally should be -9 to -7. If you have an SPL meter the sub should be around 80-81 dbs when the rest of speakers are at 75db's.

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post #24499 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 05:33 PM
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Hey guys, what's the major differences between the SB13 Plus and the SB 13 Ultra? A buddy of mine has a single plus and is thinking of flipping to dual ultras. But would he be ok with just adding one Ultra and keeping the Plus? Would they play nice or would there always be that shadow of doubt?
SVS doesn't have a sealed plus. Does he have the PB12 Plus?

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Originally Posted by Whacked! View Post
Hey guys, what's the major differences between the SB13 Plus and the SB 13 Ultra? A buddy of mine has a single plus and is thinking of flipping to dual ultras. But would he be ok with just adding one Ultra and keeping the Plus? Would they play nice or would there always be that shadow of doubt?
The SB13U had a different finish and a few eq tweaks, it replaced the Plus. Once upon a time SVS was debating a larger driver (16.5" w/neo motor) and the 13.5" would have been the midtier option.
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post #24501 of 25139 Old 08-23-2016, 08:23 PM
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Hi guys, i'm in the UK, movies70%/music30%, i have Monitor Audio Platinum 200 floor standers, MA Plat c350, MA Plat 100 as surrounds.

I'm after a sub which will give me good LFE below Plat 200 floorstanders(35hz). The bass is very powerful but i would like a sub to go lower but do not want to shake the room/house excessively, i suppose i am looking for quality bass below 35hz, something that i will be able reign in if it shakes too much.

I'm looking at SB13U, 2x SB13U or a PB13U, i'm not entirely sure which route to go so would appreciate advice, i'm kind of leaning towards the PB13u but if its is overpowering the room would i be able to dial the volume lower i presume?

Room is 3000cft sealed as in two doors shut, and i won't be able to demo. I have looked at PSA S1500, S3000i and on paper the specs suggest they have more output but in the UK prices for a veneer finish (PSA) the SVS black ash/gloss is considerably cheaper, the opposite compared to the US pricing. I am aware of the background of SVS/PSA Tom V.

Aesthetics are important to my better half although ultimately it will be my decision.
I would be much obliged for others opinion.
What volume do you watch your movies? If near reference (85 dB), then it's a no-brainer - you need the PB13 to hit those dynamic LFE peaks. But if you're like me, and watch movies with your significant other or kids at reduced volume, then the SB13 might be the better choice, especially if you can swing duals for smoother bass response. #1 is better WAF - the PB13 is over twice the visual volume of the SB13 - it's one huge box that's hard to hide if this is a living room (not as big a deal if in a dedicated HT). #2 is better ability to take advantage of room gain in your sealed room - ported subs have a steep drop off below port tune frequency. I have a pair of SB2000's in my 2700 cuft sealed room, and I get pretty flat response down to 5 Hz measured both in REW and Radio Shack SPL meter up to 90 dB (haven't tested above that yet). Every room is different, so no guarantee you'll get the same room gain, but I haven't done any acoustic treatments so it's a typical carpeted room with some couches and windows. A pair of SB13's should go at least 5dB higher than that across the spectrum. I guess it depends if you want more "shake" below 15 Hz or more "bang" above 15 Hz :-) And what kind of movies you watch - not many have material down that low, and drop off rapidly below 30 Hz.
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post #24502 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 05:43 AM
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You need to turn the gain up on the sub. Way too low imo. After calibration ideally should be -9 to -7. If you have an SPL meter the sub should be around 80-81 dbs when the rest of speakers are at 75db's.
Hey guys a little update:
I turned up the gain to around 60-65% and reran the auto EQ on my Onkyo. The receiver put the sub to -3 and after doing some listening and adj during some blu-rays that I am familiar with I upped the trim to -1. I think I am now starting to see what a good quality sub can do. The sub isn't overbearing but now you can feel it in the couch and was enough to rattle one of the sconces in the open hallway nest to the living room. The openings scenes to Spectre and Dredd are now much more impactful. Also, listening to music in my usual "stereo" setting (which uses the sub) it blended very nicely and was very smooth. Let me thank you again for all the help and lord help me the day I have enough $ to get a pb-13 ultra.
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post #24503 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 07:32 AM
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Thanks Magellen, having one of those dithering moments here that has unfortunately dragged on for two weeks regarding making a decision on either PB13U or SB13U or SB13U(x2). I have never had a decent sub, recently bought my speakers, didn't think i would need one as the bass from my front 3 speakers is powerful, 35hz lr, 32hz center.

Originally it was the SB13U but i was concerned I may not get enough output below 20hz so i then starting looking at PSA S1500(x2) but the PSA are more expensive in veneer here in the UK.

I think i am wanting the PB13U but the room is upstairs and it's very heavy, i would rather keep it boxed until its in the room(171lbs ouch). There's no handles on the box to make it easier to carry so now i am back looking at one or two SB13U, just i do not want to have regrets(buyer's remorse, if only i had bought the PB13U syndrome) as my speakers are quite high end here in the UK so any subs need to compliment them to the fullest and not be light weight in the lowest frequencies. I have not experienced sub 30hz frequencies in my set up.

Have read many reviews of the SB13U and it gets great write ups. One review did say though that the limiters were kicking in watching a heavy bass movie scene whilst putting it through its paces 10hz ish but did go onto say most subs struggle with that particular passage.

I would say i listen to action movies 65db-80db main listening position about 3.5 m from the center speaker.

Costs here in the UK are £1629 PB13U, £1399 SB13U and there is a 10% price increase on Sep 1 because exchange rate change since Brexit.

I'm not sure i would ever upgrade to two PB13U's but am willing to buy two SB13U's if it would close the performance gap on one PB13U. If i was sure the 2x SB13u would close the LFE and max db output specs against one PB13U i might go down that route
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post #24504 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 08:33 AM
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Thanks Magellen, having one of those dithering moments here that has unfortunately dragged on for two weeks regarding making a decision on either PB13U or SB13U or SB13U(x2). I have never had a decent sub, recently bought my speakers, didn't think i would need one as the bass from my front 3 speakers is powerful, 35hz lr, 32hz center.

Originally it was the SB13U but i was concerned I may not get enough output below 20hz so i then starting looking at PSA S1500(x2) but the PSA are more expensive in veneer here in the UK.

I think i am wanting the PB13U but the room is upstairs and it's very heavy, i would rather keep it boxed until its in the room(171lbs ouch). There's no handles on the box to make it easier to carry so now i am back looking at one or two SB13U, just i do not want to have regrets(buyer's remorse, if only i had bought the PB13U syndrome) as my speakers are quite high end here in the UK so any subs need to compliment them to the fullest and not be light weight in the lowest frequencies. I have not experienced sub 30hz frequencies in my set up.

Have read many reviews of the SB13U and it gets great write ups. One review did say though that the limiters were kicking in watching a heavy bass movie scene whilst putting it through its paces 10hz ish but did go onto say most subs struggle with that particular passage.

I would say i listen to action movies 65db-80db main listening position about 3.5 m from the center speaker.

Costs here in the UK are £1629 PB13U, £1399 SB13U and there is a 10% price increase on Sep 1 because exchange rate change since Brexit.

I'm not sure i would ever upgrade to two PB13U's but am willing to buy two SB13U's if it would close the performance gap on one PB13U. If i was sure the 2x SB13u would close the LFE and max db output specs against one PB13U i might go down that route
If I were you, I would just get a 2x4 board and push the PB13U box up the stairs. With a couple of adults pushing, it shouldn't be too bad. The boxes are heavy duty, double boxed, and the sub is packed very well inside, so I don't think you'll have to worry about damaging the box or the sub.

You could also just push it up one step at a time without using a board, and rest it on the step before going to the next one.

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post #24505 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 08:35 AM
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Hello all,
I just received my pb-2000 yesterday and I have a few concerns;
1) The PB-2000 is replacing a BIC PL-200 that is working great but I thought it would be an upgrade to go with the SVS and I am just not getting the output level that I was with the pl-200. Now dont get me wrong I can tell that the SVS is reaching a little deeper but its just not as loud as the pl-200.

I have heard that subs tend to need so time to really break in so am i just being overly concerned? The sub is turned up half way on the volume on the back and the receiver is set exactly where it was with the old sub (even after running my auto set up), phase set to 0degrees, and placement of the sub is the exact same place as it was with the old sub.

Thoughts would be welcome and thanks ahead of time.
I literally just went through the exact same thing. Had a Pl200 that i upgraded to a PB2000 from the SVS outlet. When i initially set it up just like my PL200 was (knob on the back at 12 oclock) i was a bit disappointed. I then bumped it to about 2 oclock and reran odyssey. It set the level to -11db in my denon x1200w. After upping it to about -6db the PB2000 really came alive. Its pretty incredible how much cleaner it sounds, and im also noticing alot more detail in the bass. Things that would thump before, now thump with authority. A really good example is in chapter 2 of Oblivion, when he first starts up the plane thingy. Huge difference between the way the 2 subs handled it. I was really hoping i wouldnt notice/like the difference between the 2 so i could return the PB2000 and save the money, but unfortunately thats not the case. Ive now completely blown my speaker budget, and im not even upset about it.
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post #24506 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 08:55 AM
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Yeah thanks Sweetmeet was thinking the same, 2 pushing with one pulling from the top with a rope attached. Just wondering which is the better option between the PB13u and SB13u's.
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post #24507 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks Magellen, having one of those dithering moments here that has unfortunately dragged on for two weeks regarding making a decision on either PB13U or SB13U or SB13U(x2). I have never had a decent sub, recently bought my speakers, didn't think i would need one as the bass from my front 3 speakers is powerful, 35hz lr, 32hz center.

Originally it was the SB13U but i was concerned I may not get enough output below 20hz so i then starting looking at PSA S1500(x2) but the PSA are more expensive in veneer here in the UK.

I think i am wanting the PB13U but the room is upstairs and it's very heavy, i would rather keep it boxed until its in the room(171lbs ouch). There's no handles on the box to make it easier to carry so now i am back looking at one or two SB13U, just i do not want to have regrets(buyer's remorse, if only i had bought the PB13U syndrome) as my speakers are quite high end here in the UK so any subs need to compliment them to the fullest and not be light weight in the lowest frequencies. I have not experienced sub 30hz frequencies in my set up.

Have read many reviews of the SB13U and it gets great write ups. One review did say though that the limiters were kicking in watching a heavy bass movie scene whilst putting it through its paces 10hz ish but did go onto say most subs struggle with that particular passage.

I would say i listen to action movies 65db-80db main listening position about 3.5 m from the center speaker.

Costs here in the UK are £1629 PB13U, £1399 SB13U and there is a 10% price increase on Sep 1 because exchange rate change since Brexit.

I'm not sure i would ever upgrade to two PB13U's but am willing to buy two SB13U's if it would close the performance gap on one PB13U. If i was sure the 2x SB13u would close the LFE and max db output specs against one PB13U i might go down that route
Hi. I would go dual sb13u over one pb13u...but once you try dual there is no coming back to single sub just a reminder ...the dual sb13u will have similar output at around 30 hz and will be significantly more powerful in the upper bass (50-100hz+) than one pb 13u...i think you wont regret it one bit...as i said they will easily outperform a single pb13u at 30+hz...and also in the lower than 15hz...and i agree with you that here in Europe the prices for PSA subs are ridiculous if they were more in line with the USA then i would have a dual s3000 i
BTW those MA speakers are a dream come true for me ...really nice speakers mate

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post #24508 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 09:08 AM
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I literally just went through the exact same thing. Had a Pl200 that i upgraded to a PB2000 from the SVS outlet. When i initially set it up just like my PL200 was (knob on the back at 12 oclock) i was a bit disappointed. I then bumped it to about 2 oclock and reran odyssey. It set the level to -11db in my denon x1200w. After upping it to about -6db the PB2000 really came alive. Its pretty incredible how much cleaner it sounds, and im also noticing alot more detail in the bass. Things that would thump before, now thump with authority. A really good example is in chapter 2 of Oblivion, when he first starts up the plane thingy. Huge difference between the way the 2 subs handled it. I was really hoping i wouldnt notice/like the difference between the 2 so i could return the PB2000 and save the money, but unfortunately thats not the case. Ive now completely blown my speaker budget, and im not even upset about it.

Exactly, I am still playing with the sub and didnt have too much time last night but I can feel the sub bug digging its nails into me. I hope i can get happy with this sub and not get trapped into the endless upgrade rollercoaster.
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post #24509 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 10:06 AM
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tommaazz i was recently told that SVS margins are huge because they are manufactured in China versus US for PSA, and then on top of that SVS i believe also charge far higher in the US when compared against the prices and arguably better PSA specs..

SVS must be sacrificing those massive margins to establish themselves in the UK/Europe.
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post #24510 of 25139 Old 08-24-2016, 11:09 AM
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tommaazz i was recently told that SVS margins are huge because they are manufactured in China versus US for PSA, and then on top of that SVS i believe also charge far higher in the US when compared against the prices and arguably better PSA specs..

SVS must be sacrificing those massive margins to establish themselves in the UK/Europe.
Yes but also SVS prices arent cheap...especially if you look at the SB/PB13U but compared to the prices from the higher end models from lets say monitor audio, bowers... they are cheap and are for sure compareable and i think even better especially because you can get 2xSVS 13U for one of those subs...other smaller SVS subs have a more competitive prices...i was lucky enough that i paid around 1600 eur for the SB13U that are now around 1800+ eur
in the Europe the XTZ subs especially XTZ 3x12 is a very very good sub for the money. It is even more powerful from the PB13u and for almost the same price in fact it is almost like 2xpb13U!...it is the best buy in Europe by far if you have a place for it
and about PSA...i am sure you would want a veneer on it but then...omg like +300GBP for veneer...give me a break that is really crazy and also the corners must be rounded because those edgy sub corners are ugly and i am sure you would want a nice looking sub if you have a MA platinum speakers

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