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post #24571 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks Magellen, having one of those dithering moments here that has unfortunately dragged on for two weeks regarding making a decision on either PB13U or SB13U or SB13U(x2). I have never had a decent sub, recently bought my speakers, didn't think i would need one as the bass from my front 3 speakers is powerful, 35hz lr, 32hz center.

Originally it was the SB13U but i was concerned I may not get enough output below 20hz so i then starting looking at PSA S1500(x2) but the PSA are more expensive in veneer here in the UK.

I think i am wanting the PB13U but the room is upstairs and it's very heavy, i would rather keep it boxed until its in the room(171lbs ouch). There's no handles on the box to make it easier to carry so now i am back looking at one or two SB13U, just i do not want to have regrets(buyer's remorse, if only i had bought the PB13U syndrome) as my speakers are quite high end here in the UK so any subs need to compliment them to the fullest and not be light weight in the lowest frequencies. I have not experienced sub 30hz frequencies in my set up.

Have read many reviews of the SB13U and it gets great write ups. One review did say though that the limiters were kicking in watching a heavy bass movie scene whilst putting it through its paces 10hz ish but did go onto say most subs struggle with that particular passage.

I would say i listen to action movies 65db-80db main listening position about 3.5 m from the center speaker.

Costs here in the UK are £1629 PB13U, £1399 SB13U and there is a 10% price increase on Sep 1 because exchange rate change since Brexit.

I'm not sure i would ever upgrade to two PB13U's but am willing to buy two SB13U's if it would close the performance gap on one PB13U. If i was sure the 2x SB13u would close the LFE and max db output specs against one PB13U i might go down that route
Hi. I would go dual sb13u over one pb13u...but once you try dual there is no coming back to single sub just a reminder ...the dual sb13u will have similar output at around 30 hz and will be significantly more powerful in the upper bass (50-100hz+) than one pb 13u...i think you wont regret it one bit...as i said they will easily outperform a single pb13u at 30+hz...and also in the lower than 15hz...and i agree with you that here in Europe the prices for PSA subs are ridiculous if they were more in line with the USA then i would have a dual s3000 i
BTW those MA speakers are a dream come true for me ...really nice speakers mate

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post #24572 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by brehiser View Post
I literally just went through the exact same thing. Had a Pl200 that i upgraded to a PB2000 from the SVS outlet. When i initially set it up just like my PL200 was (knob on the back at 12 oclock) i was a bit disappointed. I then bumped it to about 2 oclock and reran odyssey. It set the level to -11db in my denon x1200w. After upping it to about -6db the PB2000 really came alive. Its pretty incredible how much cleaner it sounds, and im also noticing alot more detail in the bass. Things that would thump before, now thump with authority. A really good example is in chapter 2 of Oblivion, when he first starts up the plane thingy. Huge difference between the way the 2 subs handled it. I was really hoping i wouldnt notice/like the difference between the 2 so i could return the PB2000 and save the money, but unfortunately thats not the case. Ive now completely blown my speaker budget, and im not even upset about it.

Exactly, I am still playing with the sub and didnt have too much time last night but I can feel the sub bug digging its nails into me. I hope i can get happy with this sub and not get trapped into the endless upgrade rollercoaster.
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post #24573 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM
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tommaazz i was recently told that SVS margins are huge because they are manufactured in China versus US for PSA, and then on top of that SVS i believe also charge far higher in the US when compared against the prices and arguably better PSA specs..

SVS must be sacrificing those massive margins to establish themselves in the UK/Europe.
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post #24574 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
tommaazz i was recently told that SVS margins are huge because they are manufactured in China versus US for PSA, and then on top of that SVS i believe also charge far higher in the US when compared against the prices and arguably better PSA specs..

SVS must be sacrificing those massive margins to establish themselves in the UK/Europe.
Yes but also SVS prices arent cheap...especially if you look at the SB/PB13U but compared to the prices from the higher end models from lets say monitor audio, bowers... they are cheap and are for sure compareable and i think even better especially because you can get 2xSVS 13U for one of those subs...other smaller SVS subs have a more competitive prices...i was lucky enough that i paid around 1600 eur for the SB13U that are now around 1800+ eur
in the Europe the XTZ subs especially XTZ 3x12 is a very very good sub for the money. It is even more powerful from the PB13u and for almost the same price in fact it is almost like 2xpb13U!...it is the best buy in Europe by far if you have a place for it
and about PSA...i am sure you would want a veneer on it but then...omg like +300GBP for veneer...give me a break that is really crazy and also the corners must be rounded because those edgy sub corners are ugly and i am sure you would want a nice looking sub if you have a MA platinum speakers

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post #24575 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM
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The PSA are rounded on the standard black textured finish, the veneers are however square and both designs are ugly in comparison to the SVS, wife let me know about that, i thought they might have been cheaper in UK than the SVS as they are in the US, turns out in veneer they are more expensive in the UK.
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post #24576 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
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tommaazz how do you find your twin subs with movies for LFE, can you feel the sofa shaking.

Reading the thread can anybody explain further the sharper roll off of the PB13u against the gradual SB13u roll off in very easy to understand terms, how does this impact watching movies in either a negative or positive way. I understand the PB will have more output volume between its tuning point and approx. 30hz as this i believe is what i am looking for in a sub but does the sharp roll off mean it will be boomy?
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post #24577 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM
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So the PC12-NSD I returned is back in the outlet. They colored in the damaged spot on the base and are now trying to get $679 for it. It was $450 when I bought it. http://www.svsound.com/collections/o...sd-outlet-9154

Last edited by MIX_MASTER_ICE; Yesterday at 01:23 PM.
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post #24578 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
So the PC12-NSD I returned is back in the outlet. They colored in the damaged spot on the base and are now trying to get $679 for it. It was $450 when I bought it. http://www.svsound.com/collections/o...sd-outlet-9154
Yeah. They will reduce it in day or two.
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post #24579 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
So the PC12-NSD I returned is back in the outlet. They colored in the damaged spot on the base and are now trying to get $679 for it. It was $450 when I bought it. http://www.svsound.com/collections/o...sd-outlet-9154

The Sharpie Magnum is even in the pic they posted!

Honestly, they should probably take the base plate off and replace it with their subwoofer isolation feet.
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post #24580 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM
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Yeah. They will reduce it in day or two.
Not if somebody buys it....
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post #24581 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pcfriedrich View Post
Not if somebody buys it....
Of course.
But those who are looking at the outlet know the price of this stuff.
And a random buyer will either go for new or buy from Best buy

When I bought it, it was $699 a day or two before.
When they dropped it to $499, I picked it up.
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post #24582 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I've never seen them list a PC12-NSD this high in the outlet in the last couple of years. Last year they were selling brand new for $500. At any rate, that's not a "chip" in the base. It had deep gouges in the side of the bass, starting from the bottom. The cloth on the cylinder was also in rough shape. I'm very shocked they are selling this in this condition and at this price.
As I mentioned in the previous post all 3 PC12-NSDs were $200 higher a day or two prior.
Looks like no one touched it so they dropped it to some sane pricing level and they flew.
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post #24583 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
tommaazz how do you find your twin subs with movies for LFE, can you feel the sofa shaking.

Reading the thread can anybody explain further the sharper roll off of the PB13u against the gradual SB13u roll off in very easy to understand terms, how does this impact watching movies in either a negative or positive way. I understand the PB will have more output volume between its tuning point and approx. 30hz as this i believe is what i am looking for in a sub but does the sharp roll off mean it will be boomy?
Couple more comments:
- twin subs won't add a lot of dB if you're splitting them apart to smooth the bass - my second one adds maybe 3 dB. But it's more for smoothing out the peaks and valleys in the bass response due to standing waves in your room. This helps both the main listening position, and makes the response better for other listening positions too.
- A piece of advice I found useful on a PB2000 review was to construct a cardboard box the size of the sub to see what it would look like in your room. For extra effect, paint it black :-) The ported subs are pretty massive, and your wife should definitely see it "in person" before you pull the trigger. Since you can't demo the actual sub, mocking one up is the next best thing. My SB2000's are barely a foot cubed, and pretty much disappear in my room. I'm very happy to forego a bit of thump for not having huge boxes in my room, which is multi-purpose and not a dedicated HT.
- I was really concerned about ULF when I bought my subs, but in reality there's not much movie content below 15 Hz. In hindsight, I'm not sure that should be a factor in your decision. Other than just not feeling what's down there, I don't think there's a negative to the steep drop-off on the PB13. Cool bragging right to say your sub goes to single digits, but in everyday movie viewing, and certainly music, there's just not much content down there. Maybe that will change over time?
- did you check the shipping charge on that PB13U? It probably requires a freight truck rather than standard package delivery.
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post #24584 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM
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Bickering removed. Stick to the topic, please.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magellan55 View Post
Couple more comments:
- twin subs won't add a lot of dB if you're splitting them apart to smooth the bass - my second one adds maybe 3 dB. But it's more for smoothing out the peaks and valleys in the bass response due to standing waves in your room. This helps both the main listening position, and makes the response better for other listening positions too.
I'm not sure that this is correct. There are people who understand this better then I do, so please feel free to chime in. However my understanding is that this is somewhat of a myth. At a minimum you should expect a 3db increase and as much as a 6db boost. While I'm not sure the exact properties that effect the dB boost, I don't believe co-locating the subs is necessary.

The part of dual subs smoothing out the frequency response is absolutely correct and may well be the biggest advantage. Properly placed and configured you can get a dramatically better response with dual subs.
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post #24586 of 24599 Old Yesterday, 08:01 PM
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In my 28x14 room, a single PB1000 made my "sofa shake" It made the door 30 feet away shake. Now I have my PB1000, and two PC2000s.... Whatever you decide on, get duals, even if it means dual PB1000s, over single PB2000. Huge difference. Before duals, I would walk around my room and find spaces where there was no bass, and spaces where there was too much bass. After duals, I mostly find areas of even bass. there are areas of too much bass (mostly walls and corners}, but its hard to find areas of almost no bass (as I could with one subwoofer).
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post #24587 of 24599 Old Today, 06:13 AM
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Thanks, if i understand correctly, dual subs as opposed to one can give a more even response around the room (for more than one listening position) if placed correctly and possibly 3-6db more output(loundness). Data-Bass implies one SB13U will go lower 83db @10hz than one PB13U(15hz mode) but not with anywhere near the same output between 16hz-40hz.

My concern was i had read that in some very low frequency scenes whilst under review the SB13U(one) protection/limiters were kicking in to prevent damage to the driver, maybe the reviewer was pushing it loud to find its limits.

I would prefer to have more juice in reserve with the sub if i watched a movie really loud in my room which is rectangular 3000cft sealed. Loud to me at the MLP the SPL is no higher than 80-85db though i understand there may be short bursts above 85db, typically i listen at around 60-75db most of the time at the MLP

I suppose my overall concern is do i have enough output at 16-35hz if i went with two SB13U (probably not ideal but two SB13U might be placed beside the front LR speakers) compared to one PB13U. I can never say never to two PB13U but there is some other furniture in the room as well as seating.
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post #24588 of 24599 Old Today, 06:21 AM
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Also swaying me towards one PB113U(notwithstanding it will be cheaper) i should have also mentioned it has been claimed to get the same output x4 SB13U would be needed to equal one PB13U if that is correct.
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post #24589 of 24599 Old Today, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Also swaying me towards one PB113U(notwithstanding it will be cheaper) i should have also mentioned it has been claimed to get the same output x4 SB13U would be needed to equal one PB13U if that is correct.
Yes but that is only valid at or around 16-30hz (pb13 in 15hz mode)...everywhere else dual sb13u will have more output especially above 50hz the output difference will be significant (x2 because here the sb and pb gets almost equal only 80 and above the sb has a few db advantage 1 vs 1))...i dont know i think you can try it for a month if i am not mistaken (if you buy it from lsound international)...if you have a place sure go and get the pb13u and if you will buy another one later than just go for it...but if you dont want a second big sub then go with dual sb13u...in my room which is around 1800 cubic feet if i listen at -7 db from reference (just for demo purposes) and subs 6-7 db hot (calibrated with audyssey xt32 without using dynEQ) they sure rock and shake without the problem and i didnt noticed not a one time that they would struggle with the material (WOTW pod emergence scene,...)...i am extremely happy with them and i plan to keep them for a long time...i usually listen at around -15db from reference and they both can also shake a sofa if the material ask for it...i dont know but i preffer the sealed sub in my room the ported i had before just sounded boomy and aslo my wife didnt like it now i can have it louder and no one complains as there is no more boominess (i guess my room excited those 20hz feq. just too much)... i think you are better off buying a xtz 3x12 than pb13u it is more powerful and for the same amount of money especially if you just want to have a one big sub...just a thought

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post #24590 of 24599 Old Today, 07:39 AM
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Thanks tommaazz,

i am happy with my main speakers for music and Merlin recommends setting the xo at 60hz and i mainly watch films probably 90-10% so i was going to set the xo at 40 or 60 as speakers are rated 35hz front lr and c is rated 32hz. I want to feel room shaking or whatever the lower frequencies do below 35hz and to not run out of gas if i play really loud although i will probably be more content 10-25db below reference at my MLP 3m away from c speaker. I have had a look at those XTC, huge, 3 woofers, £1875 in the UK.

Room being 3000cft i just want to be 100% sure two SB13 were up to it, date-bass state PB13 is c.10db more output in the freq range i am interested in. Probably two SB13 will be enough and they are smaller but i'm probably only looking at one PB13 for now,..PB£1629 or x2 SB13 £2800 and prices are going up 10% on Sep 1st I was told.

Talk about being indecisive but it is a lot of money and i need to be 100% sure. I have noticed a few others on forums using dual SB13.

Duals, are they easy to calibrate?... bear in mind i have a yam receiver YPAO not audyssey xt32. The sb13 are more room friendly and easier on the eye I just need to be sure they won't struggle with output at low frequencies.
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post #24591 of 24599 Old Today, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks tommaazz,

i am happy with my main speakers for music and Merlin recommends setting the xo at 60hz and i mainly watch films probably 90-10% so i was going to set the xo at 40 or 60 as speakers are rated 35hz front lr and c is rated 32hz. I want to feel room shaking or whatever the lower frequencies do below 35hz and to not run out of gas if i play really loud although i will probably be more content 10-25db below reference at my MLP 3m away from c speaker. I have had a look at those XTC, huge, 3 woofers, £1875 in the UK.

Room being 3000cft i just want to be 100% sure two SB13 were up to it, date-bass state PB13 is c.10db more output in the freq range i am interested in. Probably two SB13 will be enough and they are smaller but i'm probably only looking at one PB13 for now,..PB£1629 or x2 SB13 £2800 and prices are going up 10% on Sep 1st I was told.

Talk about being indecisive but it is a lot of money and i need to be 100% sure. I have noticed a few others on forums using dual SB13.

Duals, are they easy to calibrate?... bear in mind i have a yam receiver YPAO not audyssey xt32. The sb13 are more room friendly and easier on the eye I just need to be sure they won't struggle with output at low frequencies.
They sure wont struggle you will just not notice it (16-25hz if there is content)...but altough your mains are good to 30 hz i would not set it lower than 60hz crossover hell i would jsut set all to 80hz and be done...but you can experiment...with duals the best room correction is audyssey (for the reasonable money anyway) xt32 that can manually set independent delay and level for subs...with yamaha and dual subs i think you will have to experiment a lot to find a perfect sinergy between the subs and other speakers. I know it is hard to just pull a trigger (especially because they are not cheap) and then ask yourself what if...i dont know if you really think you will miss those low fequencies in movies (for a minute or two in whole movie) then just buy a pb13u and you can also try selaed...it depends on your room...it is hard decision but i would take 2xsb13u over pb13u anyday...duals are the real deal especially for those gorgeous speakers that you have

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My room is c.3000cft. Just been reading both reviews on Audioholics

Audioholics rate the SB13U for large rooms 3000cft - 5000cft reference level 75db at the listening seat 4 metres away if i have read it right. Two SB13U depending on positioning could increase up to 6db, double output in the low frequency, i'm not likely to gain that as they will be more than likely separated near each flr speakers. Audioholics did say one SB13U performed very well but below 20hz during testing went on to say "it just needs 2 or 3 of its brothers to provide the extra headroom".

The PB13U for extreme rooms 5000cft and above but will play just as well in a small room when calabrated. They say it performs well around 20hz and down to 12.5hz at lower output if used in the 15hz and 20hz setting(bungs). Not sure how much movie content is in the 10-25hz range.

I like the idea of all that extra output across low frequency, whether i use it is debatable, downside it is very heavy and large but will also save me £1000 although that is not my main consideration, i just want the best performance i can get.

Twin SB13U would look fantastic, easier to move and probably be more than enough for 3000cft room.

I'll have to sleep on it.
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I should also mention i use a separate power amp for the front 3 channels, 400w each channel into 4ohms, avr just 2 surrounds.
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post #24594 of 24599 Old Today, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
Thanks tommaazz,

i am happy with my main speakers for music and Merlin recommends setting the xo at 60hz and i mainly watch films probably 90-10% so i was going to set the xo at 40 or 60 as speakers are rated 35hz front lr and c is rated 32hz. I want to feel room shaking or whatever the lower frequencies do below 35hz and to not run out of gas if i play really loud although i will probably be more content 10-25db below reference at my MLP 3m away from c speaker. I have had a look at those XTC, huge, 3 woofers, £1875 in the UK.

Room being 3000cft i just want to be 100% sure two SB13 were up to it, date-bass state PB13 is c.10db more output in the freq range i am interested in. Probably two SB13 will be enough and they are smaller but i'm probably only looking at one PB13 for now,..PB£1629 or x2 SB13 £2800 and prices are going up 10% on Sep 1st I was told.

Talk about being indecisive but it is a lot of money and i need to be 100% sure. I have noticed a few others on forums using dual SB13.

Duals, are they easy to calibrate?... bear in mind i have a yam receiver YPAO not audyssey xt32. The sb13 are more room friendly and easier on the eye I just need to be sure they won't struggle with output at low frequencies.
Hi,

Although I always try to be very respectful to other peoples preferences regarding performance, aesthetics (including enclosure size) and cost, the fact is that there are very real advantages to ported subs. Part of the reason it is important to have more volume at lower frequencies is that our hearing is so much less sensitive there. (Look up the Equal Loudness Contours.) So, a sub which can literally play twice as loud at 25Hz, or 20Hz, or 15Hz can be a night-and-day difference for many movies and TV shows. And the fact is that there is a lot of content these days down to 15Hz and below. There are some very large threads that track bass and ULF content in movies, and which rate them accordingly.

Ported subs are larger and more expensive because it takes a bigger cabinet volume, porting, and extra DSP, to wring more SPL from the sub at specific frequencies, instead of just allowing the sub to roll-off more naturally as it does in a sealed box. For instance, although the PB13 maintains a roughly 10 to 12db advantage (10db is literally twice as loud) between about 15Hz (probably 14Hz or lower in-room) and 25Hz, it continues to maintain a slight advantage over the SB13 all the way up to 50Hz or a little higher. At 63Hz, the SB13 has a roughly 1db advantage over the PB. And at 80Hz, that advantage increases to about 2.5db. But, unless you are using a higher than 80Hz crossover, you are not likely to benefit much from that advantage.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Allen mentioned room gain earlier, and the fact that subs can mutually couple for a 6db, or greater advantage, and that is true. Subs are typically thought to mutually couple at 1/4 wavelength separation in distance. So, you would need to measure the distance between the two subs, and convert that into wavelength, to know the frequency at which your subs would mutually couple. There are on-line calculators which will convert distance in feet into wavelength. In my very large room, for instance, all of my subs mutually couple at 14Hz and below.

I agree with those who are encouraging you to ultimately have two subwoofers, not just for better frequency response, but for better bass envelopment, as well. But for a 3000^3 room, with your self-described listening volumes and interests, I absolutely think you are making a good decision to go with a PB13. Ideally, you will be able to add a second one later. But, in any case, you will be able to experience much more low bass with the PB, than you ever could with two SB's.

Again, I say that with all respect for those who have sealed speakers and love them.

Regards,
Mike

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I appreciate all the help, advice i have received on this thread.

mthomas once again thanks for your insight as you are very knowledgeable as are others who contribute to this thread.

As i have never really heard a decent sub which clearly both the PB13 and SB13 are i'm not sure exactly what to expect. All i can say is the bass sounds very full, loud and fantastic to my ears from 35hz upwards with my Monitor Audio Platinum 200.

My concern is will i be gaining much in terms of extra performance below 35hz with two SB13u subs even though they are rated for large rooms. I'm sure they are great, it's just i spent £3600 on a power amp to take the load off my avr as some people who have my speakers in the UK have not bothered with a sub as the bass is so good in its frequency range. However the MA av package does come with a subwoofer at around £3300(ouch) so clearly it must integrate well.

Maybe two SB13U the bass will be better, tighter, quicker whatever the characteristics are, but will it bring enough of an improvement and compliment my current set up to justify the £2800 outlay for LFE below 35hz. It could be that two SB13 are also better above 35hz compared to my floorstanders i just don't know.

I really would like to buy x2 SB13U but without a home trial i just don't know if they will be enough gain for such a large outlay. The size, weight, aesthetics tick all the boxes, but as you say mthomas the PB13 provides more output LFE, whether i will notice that is another question.

If somebody could confirm that 2x SB13U LFE will be a massive improvement over my floorstanders i would buy them.

mthomas when you say,
"But, in any case, you will be able to experience much more low bass with the PB, than you ever could with two SB's".
I think this makes my mind up.

Wife is pushing for two SB13u, she is worried she will get roped in for some heavy lifting, I just hope my back will cope with the weight, getting it up the stairs, delivery drivers in the UK only deliver to the door unless it is a two man delivery team but the courier i'm sure will be a one man driver.

To be honest i think what has been holding me back is the size and weight of the monster PB13 and possible back injury as my back is not the best.

Anyway i'll decide tomorrow, could go either way.
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To be honest i think what has been holding me back is the size and weight of the monster PB13 and possible back injury as my back is not the best.
A refrigerator cart/dolly and furniture sliders are a sub owner's best friends.




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Thanks Alan P, yeah i have been pricing them up because the box will delivered to an adjacent garage 50 yards away and it's about 79kg, i attempted to lift my wife up and i felt a twinge lower back, i told her to lose some weight, she aint happy, lol!
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Originally Posted by Smitho22 View Post
I appreciate all the help, advice i have received on this thread.

mthomas once again thanks for your insight as you are very knowledgeable as are others who contribute to this thread.

As i have never really heard a decent sub which clearly both the PB13 and SB13 are i'm not sure exactly what to expect. All i can say is the bass sounds very full, loud and fantastic to my ears from 35hz upwards with my Monitor Audio Platinum 200.

mthomas when you say,
"But, in any case, you will be able to experience much more low bass with the PB, than you ever could with two SB's".
I think this makes my mind up.

Wife is pushing for two SB13u, she is worried she will get roped in for some heavy lifting, I just hope my back will cope with the weight, getting it up the stairs, delivery drivers in the UK only deliver to the door unless it is a two man delivery team but the courier i'm sure will be a one man driver.

To be honest i think what has been holding me back is the size and weight of the monster PB13 and possible back injury as my back is not the best.

Anyway i'll decide tomorrow, could go either way.

You are very welcome! I know it's a difficult decision. The SB13's are very good subs, and they will absolutely, positively be a bass upgrade compared to your floor-standing speakers. But to me, whether or not they would constitute an upgrade, is not really the question. To me, the question is whether they would be the best subwoofer upgrade in your particular case. And I keep hearing you emphasize wanting to hear low bass, so that's the real kicker, in my opinion.

With your goals to hear low bass, in your room size, if you already had two SB13's and posted the question of whether a single PB13 would really be a worthwhile upgrade to your two SB13's, I would still have to answer yes. The toughest thing in sub buying, in my experience, is to make a major purchase like this, and then have to second-guess yourself about whether you should have gotten what you really wanted all along.

With respect to the weight of the PB13, I would definitely not recommend carrying them up a flight of stairs, even with your wife to help you. I have brought several into my house and situated them, and I have always had a friend there to help me do it. And we have always used a handtruck to do it, due to the size and weight of the box. I'm sure that you can find a mate or two, if you try. Alan's suggestion to use furniture sliders, once inside, is also a good one. If you plan ahead for this, it won't be as hard as you think. I know!

Regards,
Mike

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Cheers mthomas, is it safe to assume that setting the xo at say 40-60hz the PB will deliver eveything i hope it will and more to compliment my set up?
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