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post #25201 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by colinmacdon View Post
Perfect. Thanks. It'll be a tight squeeze, just wanted to be sure as svs lists different measurements between the manual and specs on the site.
You can go with 90 degree power cable and RCA connection, save yourself a bit of space, not worry about squishing cables!
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post #25202 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
No clue who's eating it. I initially asked for them to just send me a new one and a return shipping label and that I'd send the old one back, but they said they had to issue a refund, so I asked for a shipping label to send this one in, but the guy didn't want to hear it, he said just keep it they didn't want it.

I'm guess the warranty still technically applies to it. I'm not sure about the ethical nature of asking SVS to warranty the amp on what's essentially going to be a free sub, especially if they somehow end up getting charged back through Amazon though.

I did call the SVS guys first, and they told me they'd help, but that I should call Amazon first since they're the ones who I purchased it from.
I'm pretty sure you bought it from a 3rd party vendor like Huppins or Onecall, through Amazon. Amazon doesn't actually sell SVS subs.
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post #25203 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I'm pretty sure you bought it from a 3rd party vendor like Huppins or Onecall, through Amazon. Amazon doesn't actually sell SVS subs.
No.
Sold by SVS through Amazon.
One of those 2 ate the cost and Im guessing Amazon. Which is why SVS told him to contact Amazon first. SVS sells 2 subs instead of one and the customer is happy with no time spent by SVS shipping or troubleshooting.

Last edited by Bond 007; 11-30-2016 at 07:29 PM.
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post #25204 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 07:47 PM
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Just ordered a PB2000. Coming from a 10 year old Klipsch downward facing. I've been told it will be a night and day sound difference. One question. Should I re-run a complete Audyessy with my Denon? Or is there a selection just for the subwoofer, I can't remember. I need to be home to receive it, so I may have to contact UPS or however it gets shipped to hold it until I can be home. Are these shipped UPS or special courier service?

Thanks!
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post #25205 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
No clue who's eating it. I initially asked for them to just send me a new one and a return shipping label and that I'd send the old one back, but they said they had to issue a refund, so I asked for a shipping label to send this one in, but the guy didn't want to hear it, he said just keep it they didn't want it.

I'm guess the warranty still technically applies to it. I'm not sure about the ethical nature of asking SVS to warranty the amp on what's essentially going to be a free sub, especially if they somehow end up getting charged back through Amazon though.

I did call the SVS guys first, and they told me they'd help, but that I should call Amazon first since they're the ones who I purchased it from.
I'd be happy to send you a UPS label so you can send it to me
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post #25206 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post
Just ordered a PB2000. Coming from a 10 year old Klipsch downward facing. I've been told it will be a night and day sound difference. One question. Should I re-run a complete Audyessy with my Denon? Or is there a selection just for the subwoofer, I can't remember. I need to be home to receive it, so I may have to contact UPS or however it gets shipped to hold it until I can be home. Are these shipped UPS or special courier service?

Thanks!
Yes you will need to re run Audyssey, before you do that you need to get the sub gain close. An SPL meter is good for this purpose.
My SVS was shipped either UPS or Fedex, I can't remember which.

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post #25207 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post
Just ordered a PB2000. Coming from a 10 year old Klipsch downward facing. I've been told it will be a night and day sound difference. One question. Should I re-run a complete Audyessy with my Denon? Or is there a selection just for the subwoofer, I can't remember. I need to be home to receive it, so I may have to contact UPS or however it gets shipped to hold it until I can be home. Are these shipped UPS or special courier service?

Thanks!
I have one coming Friday, FedEx, there was 24 hours between my order & shipping which is when I got my tracking. FedEx has a link on the tracking page that allowed me to print a release which I printed (I hope to be here to get it) but in case I am not it will be on my door.

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post #25208 of 25229 Old 11-30-2016, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post
Just ordered a PB2000. Coming from a 10 year old Klipsch downward facing. I've been told it will be a night and day sound difference. One question. Should I re-run a complete Audyessy with my Denon? Or is there a selection just for the subwoofer, I can't remember.
It is necessary to completely re-run room correction when there is any change of or re-positioning of any speaker...particularly with respect to subwoofers.

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Originally Posted by e30cabrio View Post
I have one coming Friday, FedEx, there was 24 hours between my order & shipping which is when I got my tracking. FedEx has a link on the tracking page that allowed me to print a release which I printed (I hope to be here to get it) but in case I am not it will be on my door.
Congrats to you both! Having heard older Klipsch subs and the SB2000 as well as being a recent owner of dual PB2000's, I can assure you that a pleasant surprise awaits. Of course your room size, room acoustics, and placement will impact a sub's performance but you should expect a smooth and tight sound signature with a significant increase in output relative to your current subs...especially for movies. Please do post your impressions!
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post #25209 of 25229 Old 12-01-2016, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Yes you will need to re run Audyssey, before you do that you need to get the sub gain close. An SPL meter is good for this purpose.
My SVS was shipped either UPS or Fedex, I can't remember which.
FWIW, it isn't actually necessary to use an SPL meter with Audyssey. Even with an early version of Audyssey, it will set the sub trim level, based on whatever the sub gain is, in order to produce 75db at the MLP. All you have to do is to run a one-point calibration, check the trim level, adjust the gain up or down to achieve a good negative trim level, and when satisfied, run the full six or eight-point (depending on Audyssey version) calibration.
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post #25210 of 25229 Old 12-01-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
FWIW, it isn't actually necessary to use an SPL meter with Audyssey. Even with an early version of Audyssey, it will set the sub trim level, based on whatever the sub gain is, in order to produce 75db at the MLP. All you have to do is to run a one-point calibration, check the trim level, adjust the gain up or down to achieve a good negative trim level, and when satisfied, run the full six or eight-point (depending on Audyssey version) calibration.
I would think he should run it just to get the distance of the sub dialed in. Different subs have different components and filters so that will effect the timing/distance a little. I still check everything with an SPL because I like to know I verified all my levels and many times there's room for some tweeking.

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post #25211 of 25229 Old 12-01-2016, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by leedesert View Post
I would think he should run it just to get the distance of the sub dialed in. Different subs have different components and filters so that will effect the timing/distance a little. I still check everything with an SPL because I like to know I verified all my levels and many times there's room for some tweeking.
+1

Timing, gain level, and actual filters set could all be very different with a new sub, so running Audyssey would definitely be a good idea. The only thing I was suggesting is that it isn't necessary to use an SPL meter to adjust the sub gain, as the Audyssey calibration process itself provides an easy way to do that.

Of course, there is also nothing wrong with using an SPL meter to check what Audyssey has done, and to make any preference changes desired. But, you are unlikely to be able to improve on Audyssey's accuracy with respect to making all channels, including the sub channel, play at the same volume at the MLP. The Audyssey calibrated microphone has an error factor of about +/- 2-3db, as do all but the more expensive calibrated SPL meters. So, either Audyssey, or the SPL meter, could be off a little in either direction. But, where Audyssey is not likely to be off, is with setting all of the channels in a system to the same volume. And, the Audyssey mic. will measure bass frequencies much more accurately than most SPL meters' will.

After Audyssey has set the channels to all play at equal volumes at the MLP, nearly everyone adds a sub boost, as our hearing is less sensitive in the lower bass frequencies, and we may also just want to emphasize low bass, or bass effects in movies. But, the initial trim settings for all of the channels will be very equivalent within that overall +/- error factor of the microphone. And, it will only be coincidence if an SPL meter, with it's own error factor, exactly replicates the Audyssey SPL measurements.

Regards,
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Last edited by mthomas47; 12-01-2016 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #25212 of 25229 Old 12-01-2016, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
FWIW, it isn't actually necessary to use an SPL meter with Audyssey. Even with an early version of Audyssey, it will set the sub trim level, based on whatever the sub gain is, in order to produce 75db at the MLP. All you have to do is to run a one-point calibration, check the trim level, adjust the gain up or down to achieve a good negative trim level, and when satisfied, run the full six or eight-point (depending on Audyssey version) calibration.
True enough, but an SPL meter is usually faster.

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post #25213 of 25229 Old 12-02-2016, 02:28 PM
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Hey all. I'm new to this thread, but I've been lurking for a few weeks doing research. I just got my PB-2000 delivered today. It's my first 'real' home theater sub. I can't wait to crank it up! It wasn't really planned this way, but the black wood finish perfectly matches my Polk tsi400 towers. It's crazy how close it is.

I picked this up direct from the SVS outlet store during their black friday sale for $150 off normal! There are two small blemishes on the bottom and one on the left side. They are hardly noticeable unless you're really looking. I really had to search hard for one even though I knew where it was because it was so small. Other than those very minor things, it's in perfect condition. Thanks for the sale SVS! I was considering the PB-1000, but the sale sealed the deal for me.

Anyway, I haven't even calibrated it with the rest of my system yet, but wanted to share some pics. Enjoy!



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post #25214 of 25229 Old 12-03-2016, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by flugelboy View Post
It wasn't really planned this way, but the black wood finish perfectly matches my Polk tsi400 towers. It's crazy how close it is.
Nice! That really is a close match! Look forward o hearing what you think of it once you get it all going.
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post #25215 of 25229 Old 12-05-2016, 09:42 PM
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SVS SB13 Ultra and SB2000

Hi all,

I'm considering adding a second sub to my system. Room dimensions are 13 wide by 14 long by 8 foot height. My current SB13 Ultra is located behind my couch 3.5 feet from the corner on the back wall beside my right surround speaker. The second sub would go along the 14 ft long wall close to my FR speaker. In terms of length from the front corner it would be 4 feet from the front corner of my room. Basically its in my living room that has an open space to my dining room. I want to get the SB2000 as that is all my budget can afford for a second sub. I was also considering placing the SB2000 beside my SB13 Ultra subwoofer for starters but I'm under the thinking that placing them a distance away from each other will smooth out any nulls in my living room.

Does anyone have any advice or have the same type of setup or using dual subs of any brand? Your input and any forum members comments are welcome. Thanks all.

audiomanz.
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post #25216 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 02:20 AM
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I would wait until you can afford another SB13-Ultra. Or, sell it to get dual SB-2000's. If you really want to get the SB-2000, I would put the 2000 behind the couch and put the Ultra in the front. That way the 2000 isn't trying to keep up with the Ultra.
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post #25217 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
I would wait until you can afford another SB13-Ultra. Or, sell it to get dual SB-2000's. If you really want to get the SB-2000, I would put the 2000 behind the couch and put the Ultra in the front. That way the 2000 isn't trying to keep up with the Ultra.
Thanks for your response Mongo171. So due to the less power of the SB2000 the output wont be very noticeable? I thought the purpose of having 2 subs was to fill in the extra air needed to move in open spaces to give a more fuller soundstage? That is why I want to place the SB2000 along the side wall that is 14ft long. But I hear what you are saying as well. Thanks.

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post #25218 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Thanks for your response Mongo171. So due to the less power of the SB2000 the output wont be very noticeable? I thought the purpose of having 2 subs was to fill in the extra air needed to move in open spaces to give a more fuller soundstage? That is why I want to place the SB2000 along the side wall that is 14ft long. But I hear what you are saying as well. Thanks.

audiomanz
Hi. I had a sb13u along my sb12nsd and i can say that that is a no go....i didnt like it because the ultra was overpowering it and i could hear where the ultra is...i would also advise you to purchase another sb13u when you have money...with my testing the ultra was better than 2xsb12nsd so i would rather have an ultra than 2xsb2000...i know an ultra is not cheap but it is worth it to purchase another one believe me

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post #25219 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Thanks for your response Mongo171. So due to the less power of the SB2000 the output wont be very noticeable? I thought the purpose of having 2 subs was to fill in the extra air needed to move in open spaces to give a more fuller soundstage? That is why I want to place the SB2000 along the side wall that is 14ft long. But I hear what you are saying as well. Thanks. audiomanz
Yes 2 subs would help even out the frequency response in the room for more than one given seating location but due to lesser power and not as deep extension, the SB2k would easily be out paced by the SB13U.

But if you really want 2 subs now and have a max budget for only a SB2k then I would only recommend that you do it as Mongo171 recommended and put the SB2k very close to your seating area (near field) so it won't have to play as loud or max out to compete with the SB13U, plus it will give you some decent tactile response. Therefore put the SB13U farther away, near your FR speakers, as you mentioned.

Then a year from now when you have more cash you can use SVS's Bill of Rights and upgrade your SB2k to a 2nd SB13U to increase sound quality, output, and have more sub placement options

SCG

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post #25220 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flugelboy View Post
Hey all. I'm new to this thread, but I've been lurking for a few weeks doing research. I just got my PB-2000 delivered today. It's my first 'real' home theater sub. I can't wait to crank it up! It wasn't really planned this way, but the black wood finish perfectly matches my Polk tsi400 towers. It's crazy how close it is.

I picked this up direct from the SVS outlet store during their black friday sale for $150 off normal! There are two small blemishes on the bottom and one on the left side. They are hardly noticeable unless you're really looking. I really had to search hard for one even though I knew where it was because it was so small. Other than those very minor things, it's in perfect condition. Thanks for the sale SVS! I was considering the PB-1000, but the sale sealed the deal for me.

Anyway, I haven't even calibrated it with the rest of my system yet, but wanted to share some pics. Enjoy!



Congrats! Nice setup! Having had PB2000's, I know you'll be happy. Keep an eye open for more outlet deals because that single PB2000 will be getting lonely soon!

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post #25221 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Thanks for your response Mongo171. So due to the less power of the SB2000 the output wont be very noticeable? I thought the purpose of having 2 subs was to fill in the extra air needed to move in open spaces to give a more fuller soundstage? That is why I want to place the SB2000 along the side wall that is 14ft long. But I hear what you are saying as well. Thanks.

audiomanz
Hi,

I think that the advice that the other guys has given you is spot-on. But, even if you switch places, to put the SB2000 closer to your listening position, and the Ultra further away, I am skeptical that the second sub will help very much unless your listening level is pretty low. At a low listening level, you could push the 2000 harder, and back off the Ultra quite a bit.

But, otherwise, there is just too much difference between the two subs. The SB2000 is, I believe, about .6db more powerful than its predecessor, the SB12-NSD. According to Data-Bass, there is a 6 to 8db difference in output between the SB12 and the SB13 at virtually all frequencies. And, I think that is just too much difference to be able to make up with placement.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

You can certainly try this on the 45-day trial basis, and it may work. I would be glad to be wrong. But, I think that Tommaazz' experience in actually trying a very similar pairing is likely to prove correct, in this case, as well. Waiting until you can get the one you really want isn't much fun, as I know from experience. But, it may turn out to be the best option.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25222 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 12:59 PM
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And also the thing i have noticed is that i had to lower the sb13u at 31hz for about -3dbs just to get the flatter response as they seem to cancel each other at that freqency....and also i remember that the svs recomended another sb13u as opose to mixing them because of the different phase responses between the sb13u and sb12nsd...and that is also why they cancelled each other at some freqencies...if he really wants duals and he cant buy another sb13u then he is better off buying 2xsb2000 then mixing them...

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post #25223 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all,

I'm considering adding a second sub to my system. Room dimensions are 13 wide by 14 long by 8 foot height. My current SB13 Ultra is located behind my couch 3.5 feet from the corner on the back wall beside my right surround speaker. The second sub would go along the 14 ft long wall close to my FR speaker. In terms of length from the front corner it would be 4 feet from the front corner of my room. Basically its in my living room that has an open space to my dining room. I want to get the SB2000 as that is all my budget can afford for a second sub. I was also considering placing the SB2000 beside my SB13 Ultra subwoofer for starters but I'm under the thinking that placing them a distance away from each other will smooth out any nulls in my living room.

Does anyone have any advice or have the same type of setup or using dual subs of any brand? Your input and any forum members comments are welcome. Thanks all.

audiomanz.
I have two different subs that have quite different output and it works well. I have the SC8000 sort of nearfield about 4ft from my listening position in the left rear corner and the PC12+ in the front right about 10ft from the listening position.

It really helped fill in the bass, plus I do get a little more output and tactile feel. I'm able to use a 120hz crossover without any localization issues too. 120hz sounds the best in my room.

The SC8000 has pretty good output above 25hz so I don't think the difference is quite as much as it would be for you but it can still work.

And it costs you nothing but your time to try.

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post #25224 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all,

I'm considering adding a second sub to my system. Room dimensions are 13 wide by 14 long by 8 foot height. My current SB13 Ultra is located behind my couch 3.5 feet from the corner on the back wall beside my right surround speaker. The second sub would go along the 14 ft long wall close to my FR speaker. In terms of length from the front corner it would be 4 feet from the front corner of my room. Basically its in my living room that has an open space to my dining room. I want to get the SB2000 as that is all my budget can afford for a second sub. I was also considering placing the SB2000 beside my SB13 Ultra subwoofer for starters but I'm under the thinking that placing them a distance away from each other will smooth out any nulls in my living room.

Does anyone have any advice or have the same type of setup or using dual subs of any brand? Your input and any forum members comments are welcome. Thanks all.

audiomanz.
I think the advice to stick to comparable subs is good, however under certain circumstances I think you could be fine with your plan. First question is how big is the combined open space? Your subs will act like all of that space is your living room :-) If your 13x14 space was closed off, you would definitely get by fine with 2 SB2000's, and even mixing one with that SB13u which would barely need to break a sweat energizing the room. The other question is how loud you play your system, and how hot you crank LFE. The SB13u only overpowers the SB2000 if you ask it to go beyond the capabilities of it. So for example if your peaks never get over 105 dB (if you play movies at -10 from reference and don't run the sub hot), you'll never notice the difference between them. Sealed subs can better take advantage of room gain, so what you'll feel in your room will be greater than the specs listed. And any difference between then will be so low in frequency you certainly won't be able to localize it. Of course, if you are a bass-head, then this setup won't work :-)

As someone else said, it doesn't cost anything to try it out for yourself other than investing some time. I've added an old ESW-8 to my dual SB2000's to fill in some room nulls in the 70-80 Hz range, and it does that fine without distracting from the rest of the spectrum. I'll eventually replace it with a 3rd SB2000 but for now it works.

Good luck!
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post #25225 of 25229 Old 12-06-2016, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all,

I'm considering adding a second sub to my system. Room dimensions are 13 wide by 14 long by 8 foot height. My current SB13 Ultra is located behind my couch 3.5 feet from the corner on the back wall beside my right surround speaker. The second sub would go along the 14 ft long wall close to my FR speaker. In terms of length from the front corner it would be 4 feet from the front corner of my room. Basically its in my living room that has an open space to my dining room. I want to get the SB2000 as that is all my budget can afford for a second sub. I was also considering placing the SB2000 beside my SB13 Ultra subwoofer for starters but I'm under the thinking that placing them a distance away from each other will smooth out any nulls in my living room.

Does anyone have any advice or have the same type of setup or using dual subs of any brand? Your input and any forum members comments are welcome. Thanks all.

audiomanz.
I have a larger but similar room and just added an SB2000 to it. I also moved My Elemental behind the couch and the difference is transformative. The room sounds completely different & much better. I think you will like the result but if you don't SVS will take the sub back.

Anthem MRX 720, ELAC F&C5, Klipsch R-2650 Sony XBR 75X910C, Samsung UBD-K8500, Oppo BDP-93, SVS SB2000 & Elemental Designs A3 250
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post #25226 of 25229 Old 12-07-2016, 05:51 PM
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Hi all,

Thank you for all the excellent responses from forum members. I have enjoyed all your positive experiences, advice and I have decided that I will try the SB2000 in my HT setup. SVS support suggested to run the SB13 Ultra 75db and the SB2000 at 79-80db so it can keep up with the sub in the bottom end. They also stated that it is possible to have one sub lag behind the other the sub if it(SB2k) is closer to the seating position than the other. Actually my SB Ultra is right directly behind my couch. Thats as close as its gonna get cause thats all the room there is. Then they said if that is the case to set the SPL meter at my seating position then adjust the phase knob until it reads the highest SPL(I'm assuming its the SB2K)and last but not least he suggested to move the SB2000 closer to me if possible.
Its a bit confusing but maybe someone can break it down for me. So if the subs are closer to one another I need to adjust the phase on the closer sub?? Does that mean from zero to 180 degrees? This may be a little tricky to setup after all.

audiomanz
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post #25227 of 25229 Old Yesterday, 07:40 PM
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I think SVS was suggesting what someone else on the forum already mentioned - swap sub locations and put the SB2000 where your SB13u is now behind the couch and move the SB13U up by the front speaker. In terms of phase, I think what SVS is saying is once you have both set up at whatever gain you wanted (75 on the SB13u and 79 on the SB2000 was the suggestion?), then play with the phase knob on the SB2000 (leave the SB13u at zero), maybe in 30 degree increments from 0 to 180 and test the combined SPL to see when it maxes out. IMO this is best done with REW so you can see the whole response spectrum but an SPL meter is OK.
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post #25228 of 25229 Old Today, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Magellan55 View Post
I think SVS was suggesting what someone else on the forum already mentioned - swap sub locations and put the SB2000 where your SB13u is now behind the couch and move the SB13U up by the front speaker. In terms of phase, I think what SVS is saying is once you have both set up at whatever gain you wanted (75 on the SB13u and 79 on the SB2000 was the suggestion?), then play with the phase knob on the SB2000 (leave the SB13u at zero), maybe in 30 degree increments from 0 to 180 and test the combined SPL to see when it maxes out. IMO this is best done with REW so you can see the whole response spectrum but an SPL meter is OK.
Hi Mgellan55..thanks for your response. I did contact SVS and showed him a couple of pictures where my SB13U is now and marked off where I wanted to place the SB2000. They suggested to place it along the side wall(14 ft long) on the right side of my bookcase. They said it would be equidistant and there should be no phase issues by doing this setup. I asked him if co-locating the subs would work as well. They said it would be fine but try the first suggestion and see how it works before I co-located the subs. I still need to order the SB2000 but at least I have a base for getting it setup.

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post #25229 of 25229 Old Today, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi Mgellan55..thanks for your response. I did contact SVS and showed him a couple of pictures where my SB13U is now and marked off where I wanted to place the SB2000. They suggested to place it along the side wall(14 ft long) on the right side of my bookcase. They said it would be equidistant and there should be no phase issues by doing this setup. I asked him if co-locating the subs would work as well. They said it would be fine but try the first suggestion and see how it works before I co-located the subs. I still need to order the SB2000 but at least I have a base for getting it setup.

audiomanz
Just one last thought on this issue. If you collocate the subs, you will lose the advantages of adding a second sub. You should definitely experiment in whatever way you wish, but, if at all possible, you should try to move the SB2000, physically closer to your listening position than the Ultra. The 2000 needs that advantage. More distance = less SPL. Setting the gain level higher on the 2000 will help, but so will closer proximity, and I would work on that aspect, if I were you, once you actually have both subs to play with.

FWIW, when we look at our space with fresh eyes, we can sometimes see sub placement options that we didn't know we had. That has certainly been the case in my room.

Regards,
Mike
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