Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 844 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25291 of 26423 Old 12-18-2016, 10:22 PM
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You'll get more chance port noise when pushing the sub when you plug a port. Knock the sub trim level from +1 to -1. If you continue to get the bad sounds, keep decreasing it by 1 and retry the scene and see if it helps.

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post #25292 of 26423 Old 12-18-2016, 10:59 PM
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What does sub Trim actually do? Won't this essentially decrease the volume on the sub? Basically the same as decreasing the level?

That again raises my questioning of how much the sub can handle. For a $1200 sub, I would have thought it could easily handle anything at these levels. On the SVS site, they say this sub was tested up to 2-3x what the amp puts out RMS.
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post #25293 of 26423 Old 12-18-2016, 11:15 PM
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Well every time you move the sub you really need to re-run YPAO. Moving a sub around to different spots using the same settings can give drastically different results. And you need to at least do a sub crawl before anything else, to determine the best one or two locations to place the sub for your main seating location. Then place the sub there and proceed. The flapping noise from the driver sounds like extreme excursion, which would likely mean the sub is being pushed too hard.

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post #25294 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 12:28 AM
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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
Thanks for the quick reply!



-YPAO was run - I edited some of the EQ on the sub to flatten the response but did not increase any frequencies, mainly decreased spikes.

-I increased the overall sub level by about 3-4db (currently set at -3).

-Volume on the back of the sub is set to -10

-Port mode is 16hz (one port blocked) and SS filter is at 16 hz

-I'm listening to the movies at -10db on my receiver (will still do it around -12db, any quieter and the sound does not occur)

- Have not checked the limiter! I didn't know there was one haha

-My room is about 11x18x9 and open through a doorway to the kitchen



-I've been listening to the sub for maybe 20 hours since Ive got it.


Doesn't sound like you are pushing the sub.. My PB13s are -10 and my PB16 -15 on subs and AVR is -4 I watch movies a loud levels.. and dont have this issue.. This setting is 10db higher than what Audyssey set it to... It could also be an amp problem

It really takes a lot of push SVS subs to the limit


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post #25295 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
Hey guys, I just got a PC12-Plus which I have been using for a few weeks. During LFE heavy movies (i.e. Tron, The Hurt Locker, Final Fantasy XV, Dead Mans Chest, Transformers) I am getting 'floppy' or 'farting-like' noises from the sub. I have played certain scenes over and over going to the sub and listening at the ports up top and by the sub on the bottom.

Its definitely a sound coming from the sub itself. All other times the sub sounds great. Only the seemingly deep notes (first glass break in Dark Knight, First explosion scene in Hurt Locker, First and last deep heart beat at the very beginning of dead mans chest) do this AND ITS KILLING ME!

Am I bottoming out the sub? or is the amp clipping? This is a $1200 sub and brand new, I guess I feel like this shouldn't happen

The sub is a replacement to a PC-2000 that has an issue and SVS said I could return it or get a shipping discount on the standard upgrade with the bill of rights.

Any thoughts??

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Just so you know youre not alone. I ran a sub test music track created by another member here that pushes bass down in the 15hz range at point. My driver started flapping so I dialed it back.

Does it sound like this? forward to 55 seconds.

Or this at 40 sec

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post #25296 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by leedesert View Post
Just so you know youre not alone. I ran a sub test music track created by another member here that pushes bass down in the 15hz range at point. My driver started flapping so I dialed it back.



Does it sound like this? forward to 55 seconds.

https://youtu.be/w3Ldzvq_6Dk



Or this at 40 sec

https://youtu.be/f5AwUD1U2Zg


The first bass tronics bass I love u is wild on the sub.
Makes my subs huff and puff


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post #25297 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 09:01 AM
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Yes! Sounds floppy like that JL.
Ugh, I have to say if that's expected, I am a bit disappointed. I would be more understanding if I had my own amp that pushed the sub too hard or something like that.

And in home audio I feel like it sounds worse because the sub within 10 ft of the listening spot.

Would you guys recommend getting a larger sub?
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post #25298 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 09:11 AM
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yep. Ran YPAO again each time.

Come to think of it. At the very beginning of the YPAO test, it made that noise again.

Also, it DID NOT make this noise when I first got the sub. That's what makes me think something is wrong :/

Last edited by audiopunk; 12-19-2016 at 09:36 AM.
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post #25299 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
yep. Ran YPAO again each time.

Come to think of it. At the very beginning of the YPAO test, it made that noise again.

Also, it DID NOT make this noise when I first got the sub. That's what makes me think something is wrong :/

It is possible that something is wrong with the sub, but it's more likely a set-up and implementation issue. First, are you sure that you have the sub in the best position in the room? Did you do a sub crawl to determine where the sub should be?

From a setting standpoint, your trim level is too high for your master volume level. SVS has always recommended staying in negative trim numbers in the AVR as you approach -10 in MV. Recently, Ed Mullen has emphasized the desirability in staying well in negative trim levels, even at more conservative volume levels, to insure that the sub amp, and not the AVR amp is sending the voltage signal to the sub. The sub amp needs to do all the heavy lifting. This helps to prevent clipping or, in this case, port chuffing.

Here is what you need to do. First turn up the gain on your sub a little and reduce your trim level settings. Try to stay around -5 in your AVR, even if that means that you are -5 in gain on the Plus, rather than the -10 you are using now. Doing this may correct the problem of port chuffing, but if not, it will at least insure that you are doing everything correctly from a user-operator standpoint.

The reason I asked whether you had done a sub crawl is that sub position can be a big factor in performance, particularly as we try to push them a little. If using the proper gain/trim relationship doesn't solve the problem, and the sub is in the best position, then I think that you do need more sub.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25300 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
It is possible that something is wrong with the sub, but it's more likely a set-up and implementation issue. First, are you sure that you have the sub in the best position in the room? Did you do a sub crawl to determine where the sub should be?

From a setting standpoint, your trim level is too high for your master volume level. SVS has always recommended staying in negative trim numbers in the AVR as you approach -10 in MV. Recently, Ed Mullen has emphasized the desirability in staying well in negative trim levels, even at more conservative volume levels, to insure that the sub amp, and not the AVR amp is sending the voltage signal to the sub. The sub amp needs to do all the heavy lifting. This helps to prevent clipping or, in this case, port chuffing.

Here is what you need to do. First turn up the gain on your sub a little and reduce your trim level settings. Try to stay around -5 in your AVR, even if that means that you are -5 in gain on the Plus, rather than the -10 you are using now. Doing this may correct the problem of port chuffing, but if not, it will at least insure that you are doing everything correctly from a user-operator standpoint.

The reason I asked whether you had done a sub crawl is that sub position can be a big factor in performance, particularly as we try to push them a little. If using the proper gain/trim relationship doesn't solve the problem, and the sub is in the best position, then I think that you do need more sub.

Regards,
Mike
Excellent. Thanks for the advice.

I have not done a sub crawl mostly because the sub weighs like 80lbs and I can't lay it on top of my couch then walk around the room.

How do most people do this 'crawl' with their large subs? My room is really small so moving the couch is pretty difficult. I suppose if thats the only way, I could do it.

I'll definitely try reducing the trim and turing up the volume on the amp.
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post #25301 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
Excellent. Thanks for the advice.

I have not done a sub crawl mostly because the sub weighs like 80lbs and I can't lay it on top of my couch then walk around the room.

How do most people do this 'crawl' with their large subs? My room is really small so moving the couch is pretty difficult. I suppose if thats the only way, I could do it.

I'll definitely try reducing the trim and turing up the volume on the amp.
You are welcome! Those subs are kind of heavy, but if you can lift it onto your sofa, and leave it there for a couple of minutes, that really is the easy way to do this. Then, with the sub sitting where you sit, you get down low, where the sub would be (hence the term sub crawl) and move around the room while playing something bass heavy like the stuff that created some port chuffing.

Only check out places where you could actually put the sub. Wherever the sub sounds loudest near floor level is where the sub should go. Doing it this way, you only have to move the sub onto and off of the sofa once, and you can hear the volume change as it occurs.
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post #25302 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
yep. Ran YPAO again each time.

Come to think of it. At the very beginning of the YPAO test, it made that noise again.

Also, it DID NOT make this noise when I first got the sub. That's what makes me think something is wrong :/
I have the PC12+ and my sub started making a flapping sound, did a lot of trouble shooting with SVS and on my own and what had happened was the driver had come partially unglued from the frame (it is glued together).

Like you it started happening only at spirited listening levels with bass heavy content, I too thought it was port noise. Eventually it started at lower and lower levels as the driver apparently came more unglued. I found it by feeling around the woofer while it was playing.

You can put the sub in sealed mode and see if it still makes the same sound or put it on its side and inspect the driver. I would just take a good look at the driver. I never new that they were glued in some manner.

Good luck and SVS will take care of you no matter what.
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post #25303 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:03 PM
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You are welcome! Those subs are kind of heavy, but if you can lift it onto your sofa, and leave it there for a couple of minutes, that really is the easy way to do this. Then, with the sub sitting where you sit, you get down low, where the sub would be (hence the term sub crawl) and move around the room while playing something bass heavy like the stuff that created some port chuffing.

Only check out places where you could actually put the sub. Wherever the sub sounds loudest near floor level is where the sub should go. Doing it this way, you only have to move the sub onto and off of the sofa once, and you can hear the volume change as it occurs.



Here is what's happening. The flapping u hear is exactly what I hear as well.

Trim is at -6.0 here and SW volume on the amp is -3(up from -10).

Thoughts?



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post #25304 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post


Here is what's happening. The flapping u hear is exactly what I hear as well.

Trim is at -6.0 here and SW volume on the amp is -3(up from -10).

Thoughts?

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I would like to hear from Kini on this, since he said he had a similar problem, but that does sound like something loose inside the sub to me. I hope it's not, but if so, SVS will definitely take care of you.
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post #25305 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:15 PM
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As the bass is being played, place yours hands on the ports to see if they are loose.

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post #25306 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:24 PM
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As the bass is being played, place yours hands on the ports to see if they are loose.


Just tried it, ports are rock solid, the enclosure itself isn't really moving much, just air movement and this sound. Since its on the side, its not really resonating well with the room and so I here this chuffing much better.

Sent an email to SVS with the exact same video. Ill keep yall posted on what they say.


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post #25307 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:24 PM
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I can't tell what sound this is making. Is it like this? https://sendvid.com/oh6u05z5

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post #25308 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:29 PM
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I can't tell what sound this is making. Is it like this? https://sendvid.com/oh6u05z5


No definitely not like that. That to me sound blown like a price of the coil is scratching the sides as it moves or something like that.

Here's another video of the exact same thing but trim -1



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post #25309 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:34 PM
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The excursion looks pretty intense. Looks like the sub is being pushed pretty hard.
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post #25310 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:43 PM
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I would like to hear from Kini on this, since he said he had a similar problem, but that does sound like something loose inside the sub to me. I hope it's not, but if so, SVS will definitely take care of you.
Hard to really hear what the noise is exactly with all the other sounds.

For the OP put it in sealed mode and see what it sounds like. The sound mine had was pretty loud and more like a "flappy fart" if that's a thing. And it was easy to see the separated woofer once I turned it upside down and took the base plate off.

It does seem that something is wrong. I'm sure SVS can send you a new driver and or amp.

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post #25311 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:53 PM
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Hard to really hear what the noise is exactly with all the other sounds.

For the OP put it in sealed mode and see what it sounds like. The sound mine had was pretty loud and more like a "flappy fart" if that's a thing. And it was easy to see the separated woofer once I turned it upside down and took the base plate off.

It does seem that something is wrong. I'm sure SVS can send you a new driver and or amp.
If that is a thing, I don't want it.
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post #25312 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 05:58 PM
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The excursion looks pretty intense. Looks like the sub is being pushed pretty hard.


Sure, the second video with Trim at -1 is much louder just to make it easier to hear.

The first video is at trim -6, and I should note that at this level, it is not very loud in my room. You can hear the bass just fine but truly not what i would expect from a $1200 sub. Especially with the track record of SVS. Not to mention, it did not used to sound like this from what I recall.

Ill wait to see what SVS says I suppose. Ill let yall know.


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post #25313 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 06:10 PM
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Sure, the second video with Trim at -1 is much louder just to make it easier to hear.

The first video is at trim -6, and I should note that at this level, it is not very loud in my room. You can hear the bass just fine but truly not what i would expect from a $1200 sub. Especially with the track record of SVS. Not to mention, it did not used to sound like this from what I recall.

Ill wait to see what SVS says I suppose. Ill let yall know.


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Well it looks like you have it laid over out in the middle of the room. Not a surprise it won't sound good there. I'm sure SVS will take care of you one way or another.

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post #25314 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 07:29 PM
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My prior setup...
I have a Yamaha AVR and a PC12+
The Volume on the sub was set at -16, after running YPAO it set the sub trim to -8. I turned the trim up to -3 and never heard the sounds you are.
My room is nearly 4000cu ft and the sub filled the room very well. It sounds to me like either a defective sub/amp or improper setup.

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post #25315 of 26423 Old 12-19-2016, 07:43 PM
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My prior setup...
I have a Yamaha AVR and a PC12+
The Volume on the sub was set at -16, after running YPAO it set the sub trim to -8. I turned the trim up to -3 and never heard the sounds you are.
My room is nearly 4000cu ft and the sub filled the room very well. It sounds to me like either a defective sub/amp or improper setup.


Thanks for that. Appreciate the perspective. Will let y'all know what SVS says.


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post #25316 of 26423 Old 12-20-2016, 02:55 PM
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So I sent SVS the exact same videos u guys saw, here is their reply:
"What you’re hearing is the DSP limiter/compressor making that sound and it’s normal and usually not noticeable with the speaker channels playing."

What do u guys think? Is this 'limiter' supposed to be loud enough for me to notice it during the scene I showed in Tron?? I feel like this shouldn't happen...


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post #25317 of 26423 Old 12-20-2016, 03:00 PM
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So I sent SVS the exact same videos u guys saw, here is their reply:
"What you?re hearing is the DSP limiter/compressor making that sound and it?s normal and usually not noticeable with the speaker channels playing."

What do u guys think? Is this 'limiter' supposed to be loud enough for me to notice it during the scene I showed in Tron?? I feel like this shouldn't happen...


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I don't drive mine that hard. I have knocked cob webs off the ceiling and chuffed during Pulse. At that point, California calls me and begs me not to launch the state into the ocean with my subs.
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post #25318 of 26423 Old 12-20-2016, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
So I sent SVS the exact same videos u guys saw, here is their reply:
"What you’re hearing is the DSP limiter/compressor making that sound and it’s normal and usually not noticeable with the speaker channels playing."

What do u guys think? Is this 'limiter' supposed to be loud enough for me to notice it during the scene I showed in Tron?? I feel like this shouldn't happen...

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I don't know how close you had your mic to the woofer when it was making that noise, but it was pretty noticeable to me. And, it must have been noticeable to you as well or you wouldn't have recorded it and posted about it. I wouldn't want to hear that either. But, what they are saying is that you are simply over-driving the sub.

So, I'm going with what we started with here. Try a sub crawl to find your best sub location. Re-calibrate. Make sure that you are keeping your trim levels in the negative range (which I think you are doing now). And, if this still happens, then you need more subwoofer.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25319 of 26423 Old 12-20-2016, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopunk View Post
So I sent SVS the exact same videos u guys saw, here is their reply:
"What you?re hearing is the DSP limiter/compressor making that sound and it?s normal and usually not noticeable with the speaker channels playing."

What do u guys think? Is this 'limiter' supposed to be loud enough for me to notice it during the scene I showed in Tron?? I feel like this shouldn't happen...

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I don't know how close you had your mic to the woofer when it was making that noise, but it was pretty noticeable to me. And, it must have been noticeable to you as well or you wouldn't have recorded it and posted about it. I wouldn't want to hear that either. But, what they are saying is that you are simply over-driving the sub.

So, I'm going with what we started with here. Try a sub crawl to find your best sub location. Re-calibrate. Make sure that you are keeping your trim levels in the negative range (which I think you are doing now). And, if this still happens, then you need more subwoofer.

Regards,
Mike
I'm putting my $0.02 into the advice Mike just gave you. More sub.
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post #25320 of 26423 Old 12-20-2016, 04:42 PM
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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I don't know how close you had your mic to the woofer when it was making that noise, but it was pretty noticeable to me. And, it must have been noticeable to you as well or you wouldn't have recorded it and posted about it. I wouldn't want to hear that either. But, what they are saying is that you are simply over-driving the sub.

So, I'm going with what we started with here. Try a sub crawl to find your best sub location. Re-calibrate. Make sure that you are keeping your trim levels in the negative range (which I think you are doing now). And, if this still happens, then you need more subwoofer.

Regards,
Mike


That's really unfortunate.... I did the sub crawl placed it like the attached pic, and it was taken from listening position.

I just can't shake the feeling that SVS is not really addressing my question appropriately. This wasn't a one reply sort of exchange, they repeatedly asked me what it sounded like and the levels, room size, etc like you guys did. After many replays back and forth, that was their conclusion. Not to say I know even close to what they do, but I've done car audio for a long time. I used to do SPL competitions and have pushed amps to clipping and subs to blow... never have I heard an appropriately working system do this. And if I did, I'm not sure if I would blame the amp clipping... at least not at first.

I had a PC-2000 before this and I recall the sub sometimes being pushed too hard, but not at such low volumes. I would push my receiver to -5 or -4 before getting distortion (trim 0) I tried to upgrade to this 12+ since I wanted more bass and the opportunity arose. For now, I think I'm sending back the 12+.

What can u guys say about 2 PC-2000 vs 1 PC12+? My guess is more headroom and output? Around the $1600 mark would you recommend another SVS sub? (I'm stuck with SVS for now since my current p-2000 is out of the trial period and has an issue, hence me taking the opportunity to upgrade if possible)



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Last edited by audiopunk; 12-20-2016 at 04:58 PM.
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