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post #25741 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Hopefully, you are right, and it will be just that one movie, but I do see something that you can do to insure that it doesn't happen again. Your AVR trim level is a little too high at -1 or -2, particularly if you are listening at Reference levels. Ed Mullen strongly recommends keeping AVR trim levels well in the negative range, to prevent clipping subwoofer signals. I believe that higher trim levels, combined with high listening levels, can also contribute to mechanical noises, which is what you may have experienced in that movie.

But, there is a very easy solution. Just turn up the gain on the sub by several decibels, so that you can reduce the AVR trim level to about -5, while maintaining the equivalent sub volume. That will make sure that all of the voltage powering the driver is coming from the sub amp, and not from the AVR. Doing those things will not, in any way, interfere with your current Audyssey calibration. If you want to read a more detailed explanation of the relationship among MV, sub gain, and trim levels, along with the recommended setting protocol, the link in my signature will take you to a thorough treatment of the subject.

Regards,
Mike
Ok thanks I'll try this. Quick question about sub calibrating. I have the usual radio shack spl meter and I always adjust all speakers to 75. On the sub however, the spl jumps back and forth a bit compared to regular speakers. I kinda guess at the 75 but it could peak higher or lower by a couple db. Is this normal? And if so what do you usually aim for?

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post #25742 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
Ok guys,
Need some help with the EQ 1 and EQ2 of my PC13 ultra. Right now, they are both disabled. I'm running my AVR at -5 for sub and volume on the sub is at -4. I find it slightly boomy. I'm hoping the EQ can help.


Any starting tips? The manual online isn't very clear.


Some rough "go to" settings would help, realizing that every room and situation is different.


P.S. My breakfast glass table just shattered when I was playing Thor. I don't know if sub was the result but interesting it happened. Now my floor is a mess. The Sub is directly below the table too. hmm.
Perhaps the sub volume is a little loud, and that's why it sounds boomy. If you have any sort of automated room EQ, I would use that first, rather than the sub's built-in PEQ. FWIW, the sub gain does seem a little high at -4. How did you arrive at that setting, and what was your master volume level when the table broke?
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post #25743 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
Ok thanks I'll try this. Quick question about sub calibrating. I have the usual radio shack spl meter and I always adjust all speakers to 75. On the sub however, the spl jumps back and forth a bit compared to regular speakers. I kinda guess at the 75 but it could peak higher or lower by a couple db. Is this normal? And if so what do you usually aim for?
You are welcome! Please let me know how that works. Since you have Audyssey, if I were you, I would just rely on Audyssey to set the levels manually. It is actually quite good at setting all of the channels to play at the same level at the MLP. Uncalibrated SPL meters are notoriously inaccurate with respect to bass frequencies. I have a calibrated SPL meter which I use, mostly out of curiosity, to check my MV levels occasionally during music, and for some movies. But, for calibration/setting purposes, I much prefer to rely on Audyssey.

Then afterwards, if I want to tweak something to my personal listening taste, I can be confident that I am doing it from an initially accurate starting point.
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post #25744 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
P.S. My breakfast glass table just shattered when I was playing Thor. I don't know if sub was the result but interesting it happened. Now my floor is a mess. The Sub is directly below the table too. hmm.
Success!!
Here's the evidence. See the little nubs of glass still still attached to the table?
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post #25745 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 11:22 AM
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Thanks to the President's Day sale at SVS, it's going to be a good night here.

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post #25746 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 12:06 PM
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Well, the sale is over and I'm still without a sub. At least now I think I know what I'm going to do, so I'll be better prepared in the future.
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post #25747 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are welcome! Please let me know how that works. Since you have Audyssey, if I were you, I would just rely on Audyssey to set the levels manually. It is actually quite good at setting all of the channels to play at the same level at the MLP. Uncalibrated SPL meters are notoriously inaccurate with respect to bass frequencies. I have a calibrated SPL meter which I use, mostly out of curiosity, to check my MV levels occasionally during music, and for some movies. But, for calibration/setting purposes, I much prefer to rely on Audyssey.

Then afterwards, if I want to tweak something to my personal listening taste, I can be confident that I am doing it from an initially accurate starting point.
That's the thing though, it is currently set where audysey put it. I didn't actually have to change it. I did turn down all my other speakers about about 3-5 db to bring them down to 75, but the sub was already at 75.

But I'll try your suggestion of lowering the avr and increasing the sub and see how it goes.

One thing I noticed is Deep Water Horizon was dolby digital where it seems most of the movies I watch are dts, so maybe theres an issue related to that.

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post #25748 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Perhaps the sub volume is a little loud, and that's why it sounds boomy. If you have any sort of automated room EQ, I would use that first, rather than the sub's built-in PEQ. FWIW, the sub gain does seem a little high at -4. How did you arrive at that setting, and what was your master volume level when the table broke?

I have a Pioneer Elite 92thx receiver. It has advanced MCACC. I know it Eqs the speakers, but not sure about sub when I run it. Turning on the EQ in the sub tames the boominess. It's whatever the factory setting and changing the enabled volume to -6.


The glass shattered at -12 on the AVR, which I where I normally watch movies. But I will say, the sub was hot. The receiver calibrated the sub at +3.5 because I had set the sub at -12 during calibration. I have one port sealed running at 16hz. Now I have the receiver at -5 for sub, and -4 on the SVS.

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post #25749 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
That's the thing though, it is currently set where audysey put it. I didn't actually have to change it. I did turn down all my other speakers about about 3-5 db to bring them down to 75, but the sub was already at 75.

But I'll try your suggestion of lowering the avr and increasing the sub and see how it goes.

One thing I noticed is Deep Water Horizon was dolby digital where it seems most of the movies I watch are dts, so maybe theres an issue related to that.
I believe it is not just that the sub output is at 75 but that at the same time the AVR is between -11 and -9. Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote.. So the sub gain is adjusted until those two parameters are met.

From there you can bump the AVR sub trim up from the -11 to -9 level while not going above -4 to -3 which will push the sub above the 75 level while keeping the AVR output below a level where it starts to clip the peak levels of the sub... If you've already done that just ignore what I wrote

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post #25750 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 01:47 PM
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The SVS manual states this:

"In the AVR or pre/pro speaker setup menu, set the value of the subwoofer trim to -3 db. Set the Master
Volume (main volume control) of the AVR or pre/pro to 0.0 dB. In most units, this will produce a reading of
close to 75 dB on the SPL meter when playing the test tones on your speakers."

" Using the Manual Speaker Setup menu of your receiver or pre/pro, play the speaker
level-matching test tone and adjust each speaker to read 75 dB (“5” on the meter with
the range switch set to 70) using the speaker Trim controls found in the menu for each
channel. When playing the test tone for the subwoofer, use the VOLUME control on the
STA-800D/STA-1000D to raise or lower the level of the subwoofer to read 75 dB leaving
the subwoofer Trim control in the AVR or pre/pro set to -3 dB. (Note the meter may
fluctuate by several dB when measuring the subwoofer. This is normal and what you are
seeing are room modes in play. Use the average of the swings to determine the volume
of the subwoofer.)"

Maybe this is where I've gone wrong, I always set the sub to 75 by increase or decreasing from the AVR. I've never touched the sub controls. Do most people make the adjustments from the sub?

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post #25751 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 01:52 PM
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Re-ran MCACC. Still have it high. I wonder if it has anything to do with my Parasound amp being connected to my L and R. Hmm.

I dropped the channel levels to +1.5 and sub at -5 in the AVR. On the Sledge, I set the sub at -7. And EQ on at -6. I'm ok with this but I think I need to get an spl meter and check everything.

I was hoping there was some "try these settings" EQ adjustments that people swear by.

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post #25752 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
The SVS manual states this:

"In the AVR or pre/pro speaker setup menu, set the value of the subwoofer trim to -3 db. Set the Master
Volume (main volume control) of the AVR or pre/pro to 0.0 dB. In most units, this will produce a reading of
close to 75 dB on the SPL meter when playing the test tones on your speakers."

Maybe this is where I've gone wrong, I always set the sub to 75 by increase or decreasing from the AVR. I've never touched the sub controls. Do most people make the adjustments from the sub?
Please read the Setup Guide, linked in my signature, that I mentioned earlier. It won't take you that long, and it will help to explain the whole Audyssey set-up procedure, with specific emphasis on subwoofers.
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post #25753 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 02:02 PM
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I read it and I think I understand it now. I'll try this when I get a chance. Thanks for your help!

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post #25754 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 02:18 PM
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I read it and I think I understand it now. I'll try this when I get a chance. Thanks for your help!

You are very welcome!
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post #25755 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 03:10 PM
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SVS PC-13 vs SB-16

Hello

I've been looking for some time to buy the PC-13 and the time has finally come.. I had chosen PC-13 due to its form factor and the ported design.. being main use for movies

but now I have the terrible doubt ... whether I should be going for the PC-13 or jumping to the SB-16 (PB-16 is way too big...)

I would use it for movies (95% of the time). My room dimensions are aprox. 4 x 7 x 2.2 meters = 61.6 m^3 = 2200 feet^3

How would they compare at low freqs ?

(I do not intend to play at really high volume... I'm concern about neighbours reaction.... I live in a terrace house and the dedicated room is in the basement... mains are B&W CM10 S2, 7.1 set-up with Onkyo 818 and Anthem MC50...)

Thank you in advance for your suggestions... I have insomnia due to this
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post #25756 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 04:33 PM
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Hello

I've been looking for some time to buy the PC-13 and the time has finally come.. I had chosen PC-13 due to its form factor and the ported design.. being main use for movies

but now I have the terrible doubt ... whether I should be going for the PC-13 or jumping to the SB-16 (PB-16 is way too big...)

I would use it for movies (95% of the time). My room dimensions are aprox. 4 x 7 x 2.2 meters = 61.6 m^3 = 2200 feet^3

How would they compare at low freqs ?

(I do not intend to play at really high volume... I'm concern about neighbours reaction.... I live in a terrace house and the dedicated room is in the basement... mains are B&W CM10 S2, 7.1 set-up with Onkyo 818 and Anthem MC50...)

Thank you in advance for your suggestions... I have insomnia due to this
Hi,

The PC13 would have a considerable advantage at low frequencies--below about 40Hz. It's a little difficult to do a direct comparison, but I just did a quick one on Data-Bass, comparing the PB13 Ultra, in the 15Hz port tune, to the SB13. To make the comparison equivalent, I subtracted 1.5db from the PB13 (that's the difference between the PB13 and the PC13) , and I added 4db to the SB13, from 30Hz down (that's the difference between the SB13 and the SB16).

I would definitely still buy the PC13, if I wanted more low frequency response for movies. The <40Hz frequencies make a big difference in action movies and blockbusters, in my opinion.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Now, you can sleep peacefully again.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25757 of 26124 Old 02-22-2017, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
Ok guys,
Need some help with the EQ 1 and EQ2 of my PC13 ultra. Right now, they are both disabled. I'm running my AVR at -5 for sub and volume on the sub is at -4. I find it slightly boomy. I'm hoping the EQ can help.


Any starting tips? The manual online isn't very clear.


Some rough "go to" settings would help, realizing that every room and situation is different.


P.S. My breakfast glass table just shattered when I was playing Thor. I don't know if sub was the result but interesting it happened. Now my floor is a mess. The Sub is directly below the table too. hmm.
In order to use the PEQs effectively, you'll need to measure the in-room FR of the subwoofer. If you want to do it manually with an SPL meter, contact me at custservice@svsound.com and we'll provide with an Excel spreadsheet which will specify test tones to play and then plot the FR (along with the c-weighted correction factor).

But most enthusiasts use REW - it's much faster and easier than manual plotting. There is no shortage of REW support here and at HT Shack, etc.

Either way, we can look at the FR plots and advise the best use of the PEQs.

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post #25758 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 10:53 AM
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Thank you very much Mike

I can have some rest, yes

I do not know if this is a common doubt... the price difference (in US) is just $300 .. (here in Europe we pay way too more... 2000€ for the PC13 and 2800€ for the SB16) .. but I could not find any comparison between the two of them...

Jose



Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

The PC13 would have a considerable advantage at low frequencies--below about 40Hz. It's a little difficult to do a direct comparison, but I just did a quick one on Data-Bass, comparing the PB13 Ultra, in the 15Hz port tune, to the SB13. To make the comparison equivalent, I subtracted 1.5db from the PB13 (that's the difference between the PB13 and the PC13) , and I added 4db to the SB13, from 30Hz down (that's the difference between the SB13 and the SB16).

I would definitely still buy the PC13, if I wanted more low frequency response for movies. The <40Hz frequencies make a big difference in action movies and blockbusters, in my opinion.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Now, you can sleep peacefully again.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25759 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagaSkywalker View Post
Thank you very much Mike

I can have some rest, yes

I do not know if this is a common doubt... the price difference (in US) is just $300 .. (here in Europe we pay way too more... 2000€ for the PC13 and 2800€ for the SB16) .. but I could not find any comparison between the two of them...

Jose
You are very welcome, Jose! I think you will enjoy the PC13. And, the European price difference, between the two, is an added bonus, in my opinion.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25760 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 12:07 PM
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Heres a better pic of the table. Sub is in unfinished basement and table was directly above. I know the kitchen area rattles when I play movies. Table shattered when I was watching Thor. Again, cant say if the sub was the culprit but nothing heavy was on the table.

Look at the grin this sub has.

Thanks SVS for breaking my wifes table. I always hated it.
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post #25761 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post






Heres a better pic of the table. Sub is in unfinished basement and table was directly above. I know the kitchen area rattles when I play movies. Table shattered when I was watching Thor. Again, cant say if the sub was the culprit but nothing heavy was on the table.

Look at the grin this sub has.

Thanks SVS for breaking my wifes table. I always hated it.
You know that does look like a self-satisfied expression on the sub's face. I don't think it liked the table, either.
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post #25762 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 12:55 PM
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How do I know if I'm hitting sub limits?

I have a PC-2000 in a 3100cubic feet living room. It also has a 6 foot fixed opening to our foyer to the left of the front sound stage. I have enjoyed the PC-2000 and I'm considering trading up to PC12-Plus. Duals won't work in my space and not sure I really want to spend the money for the ultra (my wife will unlikely go for the size too). I have another thread about this as well. I typically only listen at moderate levels.

I've been told by several on the forum and SVS that I probably won't notice the upgrade unless I'm really hitting the limits of the PC-2000. But to be honest I don't really know how to tell that. I tried playing with it last night. I bumped up my sub trim to 8dB hot (which is at -1dB). I watched Interstellar last night with DTS-HD soundtrack as it's supposed to be a heavy bass movie, which it was. Master volume was only moderate. There was certainly lot of room shaking tactile bass in certain scenes. What I'm not sure of is how to know if I'm hitting limits of the sub. I don't think the PC-2000 has a limiter light even though it does have a limiter. I will say that the bass in intense scenes didn't seem to have a lot of nuance but more of a rumble. Very enjoyable but is that distortion or just they way it is intended? I have know idea how the soundtrack is supposed to sound though. Without measurement equipment any good ways to subjectively tell if I'm hitting limits of sub?

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post #25763 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I have a PC-2000 in a 3100cubic feet living room. It also has a 6 foot fixed opening to our foyer to the left of the front sound stage. I have enjoyed the PC-2000 and I'm considering trading up to PC12-Plus. Duals won't work in my space and not sure I really want to spend the money for the ultra (my wife will unlikely go for the size too). I have another thread about this as well. I typically only listen at moderate levels.

I've been told by several on the forum and SVS that I probably won't notice the upgrade unless I'm really hitting the limits of the PC-2000. But to be honest I don't really know how to tell that. I tried playing with it last night. I bumped up my sub trim to 8dB hot (which is at -1dB). I watched Interstellar last night with DTS-HD soundtrack as it's supposed to be a heavy bass movie, which it was. Master volume was only moderate. There was certainly lot of room shaking tactile bass in certain scenes. What I'm not sure of is how to know if I'm hitting limits of the sub. I don't think the PC-2000 has a limiter light even though it does have a limiter. I will say that the bass in intense scenes didn't seem to have a lot of nuance but more of a rumble. Very enjoyable but is that distortion or just they way it is intended? I have know idea how the soundtrack is supposed to sound though. Without measurement equipment any good ways to subjectively tell if I'm hitting limits of sub?
My room is about the same CU/F. I went from a PB10 to a PB12 to a PC12+ to a PC13 Ultra. Take it from me, get the Ultra. I don't think the PC+ is as big of an upgrade in a room that big.

Please see above pics on what an Ultra can do in a CU 3000 room.
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post #25764 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I have a PC-2000 in a 3100cubic feet living room. It also has a 6 foot fixed opening to our foyer to the left of the front sound stage. I have enjoyed the PC-2000 and I'm considering trading up to PC12-Plus. Duals won't work in my space and not sure I really want to spend the money for the ultra (my wife will unlikely go for the size too). I have another thread about this as well. I typically only listen at moderate levels.

I've been told by several on the forum and SVS that I probably won't notice the upgrade unless I'm really hitting the limits of the PC-2000. But to be honest I don't really know how to tell that. I tried playing with it last night. I bumped up my sub trim to 8dB hot (which is at -1dB). I watched Interstellar last night with DTS-HD soundtrack as it's supposed to be a heavy bass movie, which it was. Master volume was only moderate. There was certainly lot of room shaking tactile bass in certain scenes. What I'm not sure of is how to know if I'm hitting limits of the sub. I don't think the PC-2000 has a limiter light even though it does have a limiter. I will say that the bass in intense scenes didn't seem to have a lot of nuance but more of a rumble. Very enjoyable but is that distortion or just they way it is intended? I have know idea how the soundtrack is supposed to sound though. Without measurement equipment any good ways to subjectively tell if I'm hitting limits of sub?
Hi,

It's a somewhat difficult question to answer. One thing I would do though, is to increase the volume using the sub gain, rather than the AVR trim. Ideally, you want to keep the sub trim in the -3 to -5 range, and just use the sub gain to make upward adjustments. Very low bass is more of a rumbling sound than a series of separately articulated notes. And, you feel low bass (under about 20Hz or so) tactilely, as a pressure wave, as much as you hear it. So, that rumble that you started to hear, when you increased your sub trim, was the very low bass that you probably haven't been experiencing before.

If you are not hearing the sub make distressed sounds--literally a huffing/puffing sound for port chuffing, then you are probably okay. I think you would hear that before you heard a mechanical noise from the driver hitting its limiter. Where is your sub gain set now, and what is your master volume?

I know we have discussed this on another thread, but the chief advantage of an upgrade, in my opinion, would be for lower extension. More powerful models produce lower frequencies at higher SPL--more rumble, more tactile sensation. But, the extra SPL they add for the rest of the frequency range is secondary to that, if you already have sufficient SPL for your purposes. And, it sounds as if you do.

The Ultra would be a fairly big step up in terms of low frequency performance. The Plus would be a smaller, and in my opinion, less noticeable step. But, it could well be an incremental way to decide whether you would benefit from even more low frequency performance, and it could also be a way to help get you to an Ultra more gradually, if you decide that you would benefit.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25765 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 03:49 PM
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Just got a SB2000 and the blue light is staying on for a much longer time than all my other SVS subs. What would cause it to stay on? Plays fine.

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post #25766 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
My room is about the same CU/F. I went from a PB10 to a PB12 to a PC12+ to a PC13 Ultra. Take it from me, get the Ultra. I don't think the PC+ is as big of an upgrade in a room that big.

Please see above pics on what an Ultra can do in a CU 3000 room.
Did you feel that even at more moderate volumes that you were able to appreciate the extension and output of the pc13-ultra or it was most noticeable only at higher volumes closer to reference? All you people are starting to wear me down - I'm starting to consider the ultra. AVS peer pressure! A little nervous to ask my wife what she thinks of a 13" taller sub than what we have.

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post #25767 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Did you feel that even at more moderate volumes that you were able to appreciate the extension and output of the pc13-ultra or it was most noticeable only at higher volumes closer to reference? All you people are starting to wear me down - I'm starting to consider the ultra. AVS peer pressure! A little nervous to ask my wife what she thinks of a 13" taller sub than what we have.
Technically, its all about how hot the sub runs. I normally have my sub at -5,-7. At reference levels i drop it to -9. Some movies are mixed hotter than others. So you have to adjust to taste. Tou can create a memory dsp that recalls moderate volume settings in your avr.
The ultra has extension and spl. Choose your poison.
Honestly, if you can afford it, get the ultra.
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post #25768 of 26124 Old 02-23-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Just got a SB2000 and the blue light is staying on for a much longer time than all my other SVS subs. What would cause it to stay on? Plays fine.
Seems to be inconsistent - I just checked mine and one went off in 15 minutes the other in 21.

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post #25769 of 26124 Old 02-24-2017, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Just got a SB2000 and the blue light is staying on for a much longer time than all my other SVS subs. What would cause it to stay on? Plays fine.
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Originally Posted by Magellan55 View Post
Seems to be inconsistent - I just checked mine and one went off in 15 minutes the other in 21.
Both of mine shuts off (or rather, goes into "red"/stand by) within 3 minutes of shutting off my receiver. Technically nothing is really "off" these days until you flip the hard switch though.
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post #25770 of 26124 Old 02-24-2017, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Both of mine shuts off (or rather, goes into "red"/stand by) within 3 minutes of shutting off my receiver. Technically nothing is really "off" these days until you flip the hard switch though.
I forgot to switch it over to auto standby. It is fine now.
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