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post #25831 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
Hey guys,
Need some help here. As some of you know and seen from pics, I moved into a brand new home and have my HT stuff in an unfinished basement. It's crap. No acoustic treatment until I finish the drywall and build a dedicated theater. Until then I have to make do.

Anyways, I have a PC-13 Ultra. Love it! Plenty of power and low bass tones. I was going through my Blu-ray collection and found my old Terminator 2 Skynet edition. This one has the DTS MA 6.1 track.

Anywho, I fired it up and was watching it... and realized that the "CHEST THUMP" bass I had with my old PB10 NSD in my old home is missing.

It hit me (or didn't hit me) during this particular scene.



This is when the T800 pulls out the shotgun in the mall corridor and unloads a bunch of shells in the T1000. I remember this scene very well because this was the scene that blew my mind when I used to have a low budget polk setup as my foray into HT. And that was on a lowly DD 5.1 track on DVD. I remember the slam from each shotgun shot. You felt each one!

I don't feel it now with my Ultra. I realize room might be a culprit, but can't do anything about that. Can I use the EQ in the sub or set my crossover differently to get more slam?

I have a Pioneer Elite 92txh receiver and Parasound HCA1000A that I use to drive my Energy RC30s. X-over is at 80hz. Speakers are all set to small. Sub gain in Pioneer is -4.0 and -8 on the Sledge. One port sealed, running in 16hz mode.

Anyways, hope someone can help.

Room is 22x16x 8 feet high, and opens to a 9x16 room. You can see my floor layout below for my basement. It's like a L shape layout.

http://paradisedevelopments.com/resi...s/welland.html
Hi,

My guess is that the difference you are describing is, in fact, attributable to the room, although it could be the recording itself. But, there may still be some things that you can do to enhance your current experience. The first thing I would do is a sub crawl, if you haven't already done one. Since it seems to be the mid-bass that you are lacking, I might play that same scene over-and-over, while trying to find a location where the chest punch in that scene sounds, and feels, more emphatic. (It is worth noting that different editions of a movie could conceivably have more or less bass.) In general, having the sub closer to you will give it more SPL and may also enhance the tactile feel.

Once you have your sub situated as well as you can, there is something else you can try to emphasize the mid-bass. The 80Hz crossover you are using sounds about right for your Energy speakers, but you could augment their mid bass by using the tone controls in your AVR. You might also want to download a mid-bass demo CD, to test your mid-bass with some known sources. I hope that helps.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25832 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Just setup a PC12+ last night. I have it in front right corner of my living room. I initially had sub rotated counterclockwise a bit so amp controls were somewhat accessible from the left hand side. I thought I might leave it like that for more tinkering but afterwards decided to rotate clockwise (probably about 50-60 degrees) so amp and wires mostly not visible and not as easily accessible to little kids. So the only thing that is changed by doing that is port orientation. I have it in 16Hz mode (2 ports open). Anyone think I really need to re-run audyssey or is that an insignificant difference in position? Thanks.
Unless you think you are hearing something significantly different from the rotation, I probably wouldn't bother. I would not expect any change in frequency response from that. So, how does it sound, compared to the PC2000? Are you able to tell a difference yet?

Regards,
Mike
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post #25833 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Unless you think you are hearing something significantly different from the rotation, I probably wouldn't bother. I would not expect any change in frequency response from that. So, how does it sound, compared to the PC2000? Are you able to tell a difference yet?

Regards,
Mike
Thanks. Set it up late last night so didn't have much time to test or play at louder volumes as my family was all asleep. I again set sub trim 8dB hot so I was comparing similar settings to PC-2000. In my brief time at low volumes all I can say is that output seemed similar but cleaner which at times almost made it seem like less output but probably just need to adjust to a little less bloat. I was actually a little surprised that I could easily tell it was cleaner/more articulate. There was some additional ultra low frequency vibrations that could be felt in a test scene from Force Awakens (Kylo-Rey force interrogation) I'm assuming due to the better extension. So all as would be expected. Will play over the coming weeks (going out of town tomorrow till Sun) and hopefully get a chance to play more and at higher volumes. Currently in 16Hz mode. Installed soundpath feet and left baseplate on (you can choose to install without baseplate assuming not on high pile carpet). Also I really like having a digital amp with such precise control over gain. Nice to know exactly where you have it set for future tinkering. PC-2000 technically also has digital controls but with a regular rotary knob so just not as easy.
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post #25834 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

My guess is that the difference you are describing is, in fact, attributable to the room, although it could be the recording itself. But, there may still be some things that you can do to enhance your current experience. The first thing I would do is a sub crawl, if you haven't already done one. Since it seems to be the mid-bass that you are lacking, I might play that same scene over-and-over, while trying to find a location where the chest punch in that scene sounds, and feels, more emphatic. (It is worth noting that different editions of a movie could conceivably have more or less bass.) In general, having the sub closer to you will give it more SPL and may also enhance the tactile feel.

Once you have your sub situated as well as you can, there is something else you can try to emphasize the mid-bass. The 80Hz crossover you are using sounds about right for your Energy speakers, but you could augment their mid bass by using the tone controls in your AVR. You might also want to download a mid-bass demo CD, to test your mid-bass with some known sources. I hope that helps.

Regards,
Mike
And to add to what Mike said, being on a concrete slab sucks for achieving good tactile bass. I have a basement a little larger than yours and had a PB12 Plus all dialed in correctly - with the same complaint you describe. Recently upgraded to 2 SB16s and am now in bass heaven
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post #25835 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RTracey View Post
And to add to what Mike said, being on a concrete slab sucks for achieving good tactile bass. I have a basement a little larger than yours and had a PB12 Plus all dialed in correctly - with the same complaint you describe. Recently upgraded to 2 SB16s and am now in bass heaven
That's good news! And, a good point. I am also on a thick concrete slab, and something I have done to enhance my tactile sensations is to put a wood riser under my chair. This suggestion came from David Gage, of Deep Sea Sound. He performed some tests, and ended up recommending a couple of sheets of plywood, or particle board, totaling at least an inch in thickness. In my experience, though, the increased tactile sensations, from the riser, are felt more in the very low bass, than in the mid-bass. But, in my particular case, that's where I really wanted some help.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25836 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

My guess is that the difference you are describing is, in fact, attributable to the room, although it could be the recording itself. But, there may still be some things that you can do to enhance your current experience. The first thing I would do is a sub crawl, if you haven't already done one. Since it seems to be the mid-bass that you are lacking, I might play that same scene over-and-over, while trying to find a location where the chest punch in that scene sounds, and feels, more emphatic. (It is worth noting that different editions of a movie could conceivably have more or less bass.) In general, having the sub closer to you will give it more SPL and may also enhance the tactile feel.

Once you have your sub situated as well as you can, there is something else you can try to emphasize the mid-bass. The 80Hz crossover you are using sounds about right for your Energy speakers, but you could augment their mid bass by using the tone controls in your AVR. You might also want to download a mid-bass demo CD, to test your mid-bass with some known sources. I hope that helps.

Regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That's good news! And, a good point. I am also on a thick concrete slab, and something I have done to enhance my tactile sensations is to put a wood riser under my chair. This suggestion came from David Gage, of Deep Sea Sound. He performed some tests, and ended up recommending a couple of sheets of plywood, or particle board, totaling at least an inch in thickness. In my experience, though, the increased tactile sensations, from the riser, are felt more in the very low bass, than in the mid-bass. But, in my particular case, that's where I really wanted some help.

Regards,
Mike
So Mike, I'm curious as you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable guy about this stuff. If I understand correctly, your chair is on a wood riser, but your subs are on the slab. If true, the subs and the wood riser are not physically coupled, so how can the subs transmit a tactile response that way? I would have thought both sub and chair would have to be on the same riser, basically a wood subfloor above your slab, for that to work. Thanks.
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post #25837 of 25977 Old 03-02-2017, 05:37 PM
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Anyone been through a warranty repair? What's the turn around like? Being subless is gonna kinda suck. But 5 year warranty is pretty awesome.

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post #25838 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Just setup a PC12+ last night. I have it in front right corner of my living room. I initially had sub rotated counterclockwise a bit so amp controls were somewhat accessible from the left hand side. I thought I might leave it like that for more tinkering but afterwards decided to rotate clockwise (probably about 50-60 degrees) so amp and wires mostly not visible and not as easily accessible to little kids. So the only thing that is changed by doing that is port orientation. I have it in 16Hz mode (2 ports open). Anyone think I really need to re-run audyssey or is that an insignificant difference in position? Thanks.
No need to re-run Audyssey.
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post #25839 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 07:36 AM
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So Mike, I'm curious as you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable guy about this stuff. If I understand correctly, your chair is on a wood riser, but your subs are on the slab. If true, the subs and the wood riser are not physically coupled, so how can the subs transmit a tactile response that way? I would have thought both sub and chair would have to be on the same riser, basically a wood subfloor above your slab, for that to work. Thanks.
Thanks for the compliment. Like everyone on these threads, I am still learning as I go along. The first thing that I can tell you is that the wood riser works. I have a couple of theories for why it works, but as with many things in audio, the empirical observations come first, and the explanations follow at their leisure.

First, I believe that concrete does transmit tactile energy. It just doesn't transmit it very well, or very far, compared to a wood floor. So, some proximity between the energy source (the sub) and the wood riser, could be an important factor. I also believe that direct airborne energy (the pressure wave) from a sub, and particularly from a ported sub, might conceivably excite the wood riser, under a chair, in a way that it could not with concrete.

David Gage, the creator of Marianna Subs, at Deep Sea Sound, tested the concept with several different types and thicknesses of material several years ago. You could probably do a Forum search, or contact him directly to find out more about his tests and conclusions. FWIW, I think that one reason the wood riser works so well for me is that I have a nearfield PB13, located 2' behind my listening chair, and pointed right at the back of my chair. So, I believe that I am getting both transferred vibration, from the concrete to the wood riser, but also getting the benefit of the direct pressure wave from the driver and ports. In my case the ports are at almost the same height as the surface of the 1 1/4" riser. Whether there would be quite as much additional tactile response with sealed subs, or with more distant subs, is harder to predict, but I believe there would still be some benefit at high SPL levels.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25840 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 09:55 AM
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Thanks for the compliment. Like everyone on these threads, I am still learning as I go along. The first thing that I can tell you is that the wood riser works. I have a couple of theories for why it works, but as with many things in audio, the empirical observations come first, and the explanations follow at their leisure.

First, I believe that concrete does transmit tactile energy. It just doesn't transmit it very well, or very far, compared to a wood floor. So, some proximity between the energy source (the sub) and the wood riser, could be an important factor. I also believe that direct airborne energy (the pressure wave) from a sub, and particularly from a ported sub, might conceivably excite the wood riser, under a chair, in a way that it could not with concrete.

David Gage, the creator of Marianna Subs, at Deep Sea Sound, tested the concept with several different types and thicknesses of material several years ago. You could probably do a Forum search, or contact him directly to find out more about his tests and conclusions. FWIW, I think that one reason the wood riser works so well for me is that I have a nearfield PB13, located 2' behind my listening chair, and pointed right at the back of my chair. So, I believe that I am getting both transferred vibration, from the concrete to the wood riser, but also getting the benefit of the direct pressure wave from the driver and ports. In my case the ports are at almost the same height as the surface of the 1 1/4" riser. Whether there would be quite as much additional tactile response with sealed subs, or with more distant subs, is harder to predict, but I believe there would still be some benefit at high SPL levels.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike; I'm with you, learning as I go along. I agree with you the concrete will transmit some tactile energy, although I was doubtful that it's sufficient to meaningfully excite a wood riser some distance from the sub. But as you say, the empirical observation that it does work is all that matters. I'd also agree the proximity of the nearfield PB13 certainly doesn't hurt. Was considering building a wood riser for my couch when I had the single SB16, but now with two of them (and the second behind the couch), I've got all the tactile energy I need.
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post #25841 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 10:19 AM
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Anyone been through a warranty repair? What's the turn around like? Being subless is gonna kinda suck. But 5 year warranty is pretty awesome.
What are you needing done? I had an amp go bad. They shipped the new amp, with great instruction for install, and I sent the old one back, very easy. Was only down a dew days.
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post #25842 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 10:28 AM
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They think I blew the driver. They are offering to send me another one but I'd prefer to just send the unit to them. This way I don't have to worry about making it worse and also if it turns out to be something different they can address it.

I gotta say though, I am very impressed with the SVS warranty. My car didn't even come with 5 years!
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post #25843 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 10:33 AM
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They think I blew the driver. They are offering to send me another one but I'd prefer to just send the unit to them. This way I don't have to worry about making it worse and also if it turns out to be something different they can address it.

I gotta say though, I am very impressed with the SVS warranty. My car didn't even come with 5 years!
Have them send you the troubleshooting directions. It will pinpoint if it's the driver or amp. very easy to do. Directions for replacing components is very easy.
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post #25844 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 10:38 AM
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If concrete transmitted vibrations, you wouldn't need the riser.
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post #25845 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 10:56 AM
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If concrete transmitted vibrations, you wouldn't need the riser.
What you are saying makes sense. But, concrete will definitely transmit vibrations, as anyone who has ever dropped something heavy on a hotel room, or dormitory floor, knows. It just won't transmit them in a way that we can feel particularly well. The riser can help to make those subtle vibrations, particularly at very low frequencies, more tactile. It's not a panacea, though, just an additional arrow in the quiver, for people who want to try it. FWIW, I do think that it takes either a fairly strong master volume, or a good bit of sub boost, to create a lot of additional tactile response. And, having a nearfield sub also helps, in my opinion.

For anyone interested, here is a link to a thread started last year by David Gage in which he discussed some of his test conclusions. I actually use two small pieces of plywood, wrapped in thick fabric, directly under the frame of my recliner. The little 1 1/2" riser isn't really even visible. Comparison of Wood Platforms on Concrete for Tactile Bass

Regards,
Mike
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post #25846 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 11:19 AM
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If concrete transmitted vibrations, you wouldn't need the riser.


Concrete definitely transmits vibrations on my concrete floor in the basement. Not as much as my system upstairs on a suspended floor though.


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post #25847 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That's good news! And, a good point. I am also on a thick concrete slab, and something I have done to enhance my tactile sensations is to put a wood riser under my chair. This suggestion came from David Gage, of Deep Sea Sound. He performed some tests, and ended up recommending a couple of sheets of plywood, or particle board, totaling at least an inch in thickness. In my experience, though, the increased tactile sensations, from the riser, are felt more in the very low bass, than in the mid-bass. But, in my particular case, that's where I really wanted some help.

Regards,
Mike
this sounds interesting.. any more info about the wood riser you made? I have a new 3 seater and could use something like this. My house is 1,5 feet steel re-enforced concrete and my floor is stone/marble so u can imagine the hell room I have :-)
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post #25848 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 06:44 PM
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Hi everyone,

Looking for some assistance with my dilemma...

My current setup in the basement is 10x13 ft HT area with right side completely open to the rest of the basement.

The system is Onkyo TX-NR3009 pushing 5.1 consisting of JBL Studio L820 L&R, LC2 center, L810 surrounds and L8400P sub in the front left corner.

I have to say the sound is great but I feel like the bass can be more clearer and louder

The sub sits in a 18.5x18.5x23" opening in the wall and so are the speakers.

I was doing some research when stumbled upon SVS and looking at the reviews I feel like SB13-Ultra can solve my "dilemma".

Even though my eye was really on the SB16, I really don't want to put anything on the floor of that already small sitting area and it won't fit into "alcove".

Do you think I'll gain a lot by switching from JBL Studio L8400P to SB13 or not? The 45-day policy helps a lot and will potentially play a huge role in this decision.

Thanks


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post #25849 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 07:11 PM
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this sounds interesting.. any more info about the wood riser you made? I have a new 3 seater and could use something like this. My house is 1,5 feet steel re-enforced concrete and my floor is stone/marble so u can imagine the hell room I have :-)
Hi,

That does sound like a difficult environment for tactile bass. At least I have thick wood paneling in the room to help with the mid-bass. Post 25840 and Post 25846 pretty well explain what I did. The key, I think is the nearfield sub, with the ports pointing toward the seats, and the riser. I made a couple of tweaks to things recently with respect to my nearfield sub. I just watched "Gods of Egypt" and the audible and tactile ULF in that movie literally wore me out. I had to turn down both the volume, and the sub boost, after a while. The Ultras can absolutely deliver if they are set up right, and if you push them.

On another thread today, someone was testing his testing his PB16's against a JTR 218HT, which is a very capable sub. He said that testing just one of his PB16's, in the same position as the 218HT, it measured 120db at 20Hz in the low port tune, and stayed within 4db of the dual 18" JTR sub below 20Hz. Of course, at higher frequencies, the 218HT was able to produce 130db. But, the PB16's (and the PB13's) are low frequency beasts, for their size, in the 15Hz port tune.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25850 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ilyan View Post
Hi everyone,

Looking for some assistance with my dilemma...

My current setup in the basement is 10x13 ft HT area with right side completely open to the rest of the basement.

The system is Onkyo TX-NR3009 pushing 5.1 consisting of JBL Studio L820 L&R, LC2 center, L810 surrounds and L8400P sub in the front left corner.

I have to say the sound is great but I feel like the bass can be more clearer and louder

The sub sits in a 18.5x18.5x23" opening in the wall and so are the speakers.

I was doing some research when stumbled upon SVS and looking at the reviews I feel like SB13-Ultra can solve my "dilemma".

Even though my eye was really on the SB16, I really don't want to put anything on the floor of that already small sitting area and it won't fit into "alcove".

Do you think I'll gain a lot by switching from JBL Studio L8400P to SB13 or not? The 45-day policy helps a lot and will potentially play a huge role in this decision.

Thanks

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Hi,

I do think that the SB13 could deliver louder and clearer bass than the JBL sub. And, the free trial period makes it a risk-free investment to find out. I actually think that it will be to your advantage to not be able to place the sub in an alcove. That would be pretty unpredictable with respect to frequency response. FWIW, I would try taking the JBL sub out of that alcove anyway, and repositioning it in a couple of spots where the SB13 might go. I would still get the SB13, if I wanted an upgrade, but it would be interesting to see whether the JBL sub would perform better in a different location.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25851 of 25977 Old 03-03-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I do think that the SB13 could deliver louder and clearer bass than the JBL sub. And, the free trial period makes it a risk-free investment to find out. I actually think that it will be to your advantage to not be able to place the sub in an alcove. That would be pretty unpredictable with respect to frequency response. FWIW, I would try taking the JBL sub out of that alcove anyway, and repositioning it in a couple of spots where the SB13 might go. I would still get the SB13, if I wanted an upgrade, but it would be interesting to see whether the JBL sub would perform better in a different location.

Regards,
Mike


If I was to take it out the whole plan would change. I would have gone for PB13 or SB16 in that case. Or would it be an overkill?

I guess I need to play with the JBL out of the alcove to see the difference as you recommended.


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post #25852 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ilyan View Post
If I was to take it out the whole plan would change. I would have gone for PB13 or SB16 in that case. Or would it be an overkill?

I guess I need to play with the JBL out of the alcove to see the difference as you recommended.


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I reread your original post to see if I missed something the first time. But, as I understand it, although you would prefer not to use any of your floor space for a subwoofer, you don't have any choice if you upgrade, since nothing else will fit where the JBL sub is now. Sub location is a very important factor in the bass you hear, as the room exerts tremendous influence on low frequency sounds. If you are going to have to position a new sub somewhere else, anyway, then it can't hurt to experiment a little, with your current sub, in some alternative locations.

If you would like to provide a couple of photos, and a description of your preferred listening level, and whether you add any sub boost after your initial calibration, I may be able to offer some additional advice. But, I don't believe that an SB16 would be overkill in that size room. I think that you might like it very much. For movie viewing particularly, the low bass is a very important aspect of the overall experience for me. And, the SB16 can deliver even more of the strong clear bass I like, than the SB13 can.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25853 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I reread your original post to see if I missed something the first time. But, as I understand it, although you would prefer not to use any of your floor space for a subwoofer, you don't have any choice if you upgrade, since nothing else will fit where the JBL sub is now. Sub location is a very important factor in the bass you hear, as the room exerts tremendous influence on low frequency sounds. If you are going to have to position a new sub somewhere else, anyway, then it can't hurt to experiment a little, with your current sub, in some alternative locations.

If you would like to provide a couple of photos, and a description of your preferred listening level, and whether you add any sub boost after your initial calibration, I may be able to offer some additional advice. But, I don't believe that an SB16 would be overkill in that size room. I think that you might like it very much. For movie viewing particularly, the low bass is a very important aspect of the overall experience for me. And, the SB16 can deliver even more of the strong clear bass I like, than the SB13 can.

Regards,
Mike


I found a picture that was taken during the construction. You'll see the opening for the sub in lower left corner. SB13 will fit in perfectly that's why it was my number one consideration.

I'm mostly watching movie. About 90/10 for movies/music. If I watch during the evening, I can crank the system fairly loud but still within a comfortable listening zone. When the kids go to sleep I can only visually admire the speakers haha

My L8400P is set to 50-60% not because of the power but simply anything around 75% starts creating distorted sound.

I guess the real nature of my question is how much more superior of a subwoofer SB-13 is compared to my JBL. Spending $1600 to replace a still somewhat pretty high quality sub would require a significant performance upgrade.


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post #25854 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ilyan View Post
I found a picture that was taken during the construction. You'll see the opening for the sub in lower left corner. SB13 will fit in perfectly that's why it was my number one consideration.

I'm mostly watching movie. About 90/10 for movies/music. If I watch during the evening, I can crank the system fairly loud but still within a comfortable listening zone. When the kids go to sleep I can only visually admire the speakers haha

My L8400P is set to 50-60% not because of the power but simply anything around 75% starts creating distorted sound.

I guess the real nature of my question is how much more superior of a subwoofer SB-13 is compared to my JBL. Spending $1600 to replace a still somewhat pretty high quality sub would require a significant performance upgrade.


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And of course I forgot to attach the pic lol


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post #25855 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ilyan View Post
And of course I forgot to attach the pic lol


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The picture helps me to understand the issues you are dealing with. I believe that some of the distortion you are experiencing is due to the sub's location in that alcove. I would be extremely surprised if any sub could deliver undistorted sound in that location. That's sort of like corner loading the sub, times two. So, if you are considering buying a better sub just to put it in the same place, I think that you should save your money. I think that you will be able to get better sound from your JBL, just by taking it out of that nook, and putting it in front of the cutout. The nook is very likely causing some of the distortion you hear.

With that said, subwoofer technology has evolved quite a bit in the 10 years since that subwoofer was made. I was unable to find any professional reviews for the sub, which would give me actual test results, and that is telling in itself. The best I was able to come up with is the observation that the sub can't produce significant SPL below about 25Hz or higher. For movies, it is the low bass that makes things most interesting for me. And, I believe that you are missing out on a lot of that.

So, I would experiment with taking the sub out of the alcove, to see if the sound quality improves, and also to determine if you mind having it in front of your wall. If the sound quality improves, and you can tolerate the positioning, that will be progress in itself. Then, if you want even more low frequency response, you might consider upgrading to a sub that is better able to produce it. And, the free trial period will help, in that respect, because if you don't think the gain in bass is worth the expenditure, then you aren't obligated to keep the sub. In your position, I think that my first choice would be the SB16, with the SB13 as the second choice. But, only you can decide, after hearing one of them, whether the resulting performance upgrade is worth the expenditure for you.

Regards,
Mike
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post #25856 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
The picture helps me to understand the issues you are dealing with. I believe that some of the distortion you are experiencing is due to the sub's location in that alcove. I would be extremely surprised if any sub could deliver undistorted sound in that location. That's sort of like corner loading the sub, times two. So, if you are considering buying a better sub just to put it in the same place, I think that you should save your money. I think that you will be able to get better sound from your JBL, just by taking it out of that nook, and putting it in front of the cutout. The nook is very likely causing some of the distortion you hear.

With that said, subwoofer technology has evolved quite a bit in the 10 years since that subwoofer was made. I was unable to find any professional reviews for the sub, which would give me actual test results, and that is telling in itself. The best I was able to come up with is the observation that the sub can't produce significant SPL below about 25Hz or higher. For movies, it is the low bass that makes things most interesting for me. And, I believe that you are missing out on a lot of that.

So, I would experiment with taking the sub out of the alcove, to see if the sound quality improves, and also to determine if you mind having it in front of your wall. If the sound quality improves, and you can tolerate the positioning, that will be progress in itself. Then, if you want even more low frequency response, you might consider upgrading to a sub that is better able to produce it. And, the free trial period will help, in that respect, because if you don't think the gain in bass is worth the expenditure, then you aren't obligated to keep the sub. In your position, I think that my first choice would be the SB16, with the SB13 as the second choice. But, only you can decide, after hearing one of them, whether the resulting performance upgrade is worth the expenditure for you.

Regards,
Mike


Thanks for a great feedback Mike!


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post #25857 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 07:29 AM
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The reason you fell more bass on the wood riser, is more surface contact. Your chair has feet, or rails to rest on the floor. That's minimal contact. When you add the plywood, the square footage goes up. It`s then able to collect more of subs energy.
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post #25858 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by headcase151 View Post
The reason you fell more bass on the wood riser, is more surface contact. Your chair has feet, or rails to rest on the floor. That's minimal contact. When you add the plywood, the square footage goes up. It`s then able to collect more of subs energy.
Yes, and to resonate sympathetically with it.
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post #25859 of 25977 Old 03-04-2017, 12:59 PM
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Speaker arrived a day late due to the snow in the Sierras. Looks new, hooked it up yesterday and it works

So looked in the outlet page last night and there was one Ultra BS, oak finish, no damage for $449. Not quite as nice a price as in the Presidents day sale but better than full price

Called customer service this morning and got a 5% returning customer discount code. Ed Mullen took the call He stayed on the line until I had placed the order and he verified the sale had gone through, that's customer service!

Thanks Ed
Speaker arrived yesterday afternoon, on time. Looks new and got it hooked up. Sounds like the others AUDIOHOLICS review from 2014. This completes my SVS Ultra 5.0 portion of my setup, 4 speakers to go...

So, the wheels keep turnin' and I'm looking forward to my state tax refund in the next month... add a few dollars and I might pick up a pair of the elevation speakers, or at least 1 then add the second asap, to replace my front height speakers.

After those are in place I'll work on getting a pair of Ultra surrounds. I haven't seen any oak finishes in the outlet so probably have to buy new. For sure I'll purchase those one at a time as the state requires payment of a use tax, same rate as sales tax ~9%, for any online purchase over $1,000. Buying 1 surround at a time I'll pay a use tax based on my income, which is pretty low.
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Regards, Ken (Retired)
9.1) Denon 4520CI; Samsung 55H8000 & BD-F7500; LRS/L/R SVS Ultra BS, Ultra Center;
RRS Celestion 5; FH & SS Polk; Rythmik F12; CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD (x2)
2.1 Ch.) Nakamichi RE-1, CDC-4A, CR7A, Denon 300F/Ortofon 2M Bronze;
ADS L1290(x2); PINNACLE BABYBOOMER SUB, PANAMAX MR4300
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post #25860 of 25977 Old 03-05-2017, 02:14 PM
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These things are beasts! I decided to remove the driver myself rather than sending the entire unit in and letting the shipping company do what they do best and destroy something. Have you guys ever seen one of these out of its box? They are huge! And heavy! And awesome!
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Just 'cause you're right doesn't mean I'm wrong

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