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post #26341 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 07:43 AM
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I have found that if your sub feels boom in a corner, it's likely room gain. If you're unable to correct room gain, move the 2 subs to the side of the room facing opposite each other. That's if your room allows it.
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post #26342 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by thyname View Post
I may do that (try the connection to the SB-12 NSD with no external crossover). However:

1 - the only option is 80 Hz? I am thinking my B&W CM10s can handle lower than that (rated 45 HZ at +/- 3dB, so I was thinking 60 Hz)

2 - Did you mean eight subwoofer cables in total? So dual subwoofers, two times two each (back and four from preamp to sub to amp). Which means that I have to buy six cables, as I already have two?

Thanks again!
No, just two more. You would just use one set of inputs and outputs on each subwoofer.
Basically, disconnect the subwoofers from the sub outs, and connect them to the pre out you are using for the amp. Run the right output to the right hand subwoofer then run the high pass out to the right hand input on the amp. Then left to left. Then set the low pass to 80 on both, best you can guess as they only mark 30 Hz and 130hz, and adjust the gain so that it sounds right. Or get some white noise and level match with an spl meter.
Even though your mains can go lower than 80 Hz, the subwoofers can do it better with lower distortion, so you aren't losing anything doing it that way, it just seems like it. I have towers that go down to 38 Hz(supposedly) and I can tell that the subwoofer does a better job below 80 Hz(and possibly above, but I am happy with 80 Hz).
I'm sure there is a better way, I am far from an expert.

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post #26343 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
No, just two more. You would just use one set of inputs and outputs on each subwoofer.
Basically, disconnect the subwoofers from the sub outs, and connect them to the pre out you are using for the amp. Run the right output to the right hand subwoofer then run the high pass out to the right hand input on the amp. Then left to left. Then set the low pass to 80 on both, best you can guess as they only mark 30 Hz and 130hz, and adjust the gain so that it sounds right. Or get some white noise and level match with an spl meter.
Even though your mains can go lower than 80 Hz, the subwoofers can do it better with lower distortion, so you aren't losing anything doing it that way, it just seems like it. I have towers that go down to 38 Hz(supposedly) and I can tell that the subwoofer does a better job below 80 Hz(and possibly above, but I am happy with 80 Hz).
I'm sure there is a better way, I am far from an expert.
Thanks! I have a better handle on this now.

To clarify, currently the Preamp is a two-channel preamp, connecting the XLR outputs on it to the XLR inputs on the Amp (Rotel RB-1582 MKII). So the preouts on the preamp are not used, as I am using the two sub outs on the preamp to the subwoofers. Are you saying that I should use the preouts now on the preamp to the subs instead of the subs out, and then disconnect the XLR connections from preamp to amp?

Sorry for being so ignorant...
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post #26344 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
call Ed at SVS he will walk you thru this.
I just heard back from Ed (top notch super fast response!). Here is what he wrote me:

------------

Definitely run the CM10s on full-range with no high pass.

Connect the SB12-NSDs to the spare set of full-range pre-outs and not the sub-outs. I suspect the sub-outs are low passed at a certain frequency and may be why you are having integration problems.

Adjust the low pass on the SB12-NSDs to about 50 Hz for a starting point and adjust up/down from there by ear.

-----------

So it seems like no need to activate high pass on SVS SB-12 NSDs, and no need to get an external crossover. Just switching from the "subs out" on preamp to the preouts on it. That's it. You guys agree?
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post #26345 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thyname View Post
Thanks! I have a better handle on this now.

To clarify, currently the Preamp is a two-channel preamp, connecting the XLR outputs on it to the XLR inputs on the Amp (Rotel RB-1582 MKII). So the preouts on the preamp are not used, as I am using the two sub outs on the preamp to the subwoofers. Are you saying that I should use the preouts now on the preamp to the subs instead of the subs out, and then disconnect the XLR connections from preamp to amp?

Sorry for being so ignorant...
Yes, you are going to have to drop the XLR for RCA for this, which shouldn't be a problem for relatively short runs. Basically, you are running the preamp output through the subwoofer on the way to the amp, and not using the sub outs at all on the preamp, and using the subwoofer itself as the crossover.
If you end up getting that HSU crossover, you will still have to use RCA cables instead of XLR, although it certainly is a more elegant solution.

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post #26346 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thyname View Post
I just heard back from Ed (top notch super fast response!). Here is what he wrote me:

------------

Definitely run the CM10s on full-range with no high pass.

Connect the SB12-NSDs to the spare set of full-range pre-outs and not the sub-outs. I suspect the sub-outs are low passed at a certain frequency and may be why you are having integration problems.

Adjust the low pass on the SB12-NSDs to about 50 Hz for a starting point and adjust up/down from there by ear.

-----------

So it seems like no need to activate high pass on SVS SB-12 NSDs, and no need to get an external crossover. Just switching from the "subs out" on preamp to the preouts on it. That's it. You guys agree?
That's certainly the audiophile way to do it. I thought that's what you were having problems doing. Supposedly, the Rotel has no bass management whatsoever, so I'm surprised that the sub outs are low passed.

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post #26347 of 26364 Old 07-13-2017, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
That's certainly the audiophile way to do it. I thought that's what you were having problems doing. Supposedly, the Rotel has no bass management whatsoever, so I'm surprised that the sub outs are low passed.
Yeah that would be much easier. However, I am going to try this, AND, what you suggested. Buying a couple of Mono RCA cables from Amazon is not too expensive. Thank you very much for you help!
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post #26348 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Supposedly, the Rotel has no bass management whatsoever, so I'm surprised that the sub outs are low passed.
They might not be - that is just my suspicion. All the owner's manual confirms is the sub-out is a mono signal with both channels combined. Usually it's low passed too - but maybe not in this case.

It would be easy enough to tell by setting the SVS low pass to disable and then listening to the feed from the Rotel sub-out with the speaker amp powered down. Midrange and some vocals will be audible if the Rotel is sending a full-range signal out the sub-out jacks. The internal (non adjustable by user) low pass on the SVS amp is about 300 Hz.

Another reason to use the spare set of full-range pre-outs in the Rotel is preserving a stereo signal going to both subs. While the bass is not terribly directional at the recommended low pass of ~50 Hz, I would still always choose stereo bass over dual mono bass if I had the choice.
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post #26349 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
They might not be - that is just my suspicion. All the owner's manual confirms is the sub-out is a mono signal with both channels combined. Usually it's low passed too - but maybe not in this case.

It would be easy enough to tell by setting the SVS low pass to disable and then listening to the feed from the Rotel sub-out with the speaker amp powered down. Midrange and some vocals will be audible if the Rotel is sending a full-range signal out the sub-out jacks. The internal (non adjustable by user) low pass on the SVS amp is about 300 Hz.

Another reason to use the spare set of full-range pre-outs in the Rotel is preserving a stereo signal going to both subs. While the bass is not terribly directional at the recommended low pass of ~50 Hz, I would still always choose stereo bass over dual mono bass if I had the choice.
Thanks Ed, I can try the above when I get back home tonight. Great idea.

BTW, this is what the Rotel rep wrote when I asked yesterday:

You could try to go out of the RC-1590 pre-outs to see if that makes an improvement in sound. The RC-1590 Sub out frequency cannot be set – their outputs are a full range Mono signal (20Hz-20KHz), so you are required to use the SVS’s internal crossover circuitry if you go with either of those options.
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post #26350 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thyname View Post
Thanks Ed, I can try the above when I get back home tonight. Great idea.

BTW, this is what the Rotel rep wrote when I asked yesterday:

You could try to go out of the RC-1590 pre-outs to see if that makes an improvement in sound. The RC-1590 Sub out frequency cannot be set – their outputs are a full range Mono signal (20Hz-20KHz), so you are required to use the SVS’s internal crossover circuitry if you go with either of those options.
Well that seals it - mono but full-range. So the only advantage to using the spare set of pre-outs is preserving stereo bass vs. dual mono.
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post #26351 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Well that seals it - mono but full-range. So the only advantage to using the spare set of pre-outs is preserving stereo bass vs. dual mono.
Thanks Ed! I will try the preouts this weekend.

On another note, do you guys recommend using external crossover devices (miniDSPs come to mind), in such cases?
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post #26352 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by thyname View Post
Thanks Ed! I will try the preouts this weekend.

On another note, do you guys recommend using external crossover devices (miniDSPs come to mind), in such cases?
Not in your application, because in dedicated 2-channel systems, it's almost always best to run something like the CM10s on full-range and just low pass the sub to blend. Additionally, most 2-channel aficionados eschew unnecessary/additional digital processing of the full-range signal.

With that said - if you want to try a true crossover, then yes - something like a miniDSP 2x4 HD would be a great choice.

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post #26353 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

Typically, the weaker of two subs should be the NF sub...not the other way around.

Since you don't have the ability to properly time-align the subs, have you tried messing with the phase on one of the subs? Typically, you would adjust phase on the nearer sub for the highest combined SPL at the MLP using your AVRs subwoofer calibration tone.
Thank you Alan, was playing with phase and taking measurements. The flattest response before calibration was with the nearfield sub at 180deg. However, that phase didn't provide the highest combined SPL, that was between 90-120deg I think, but it was still boomy compared with 180 which was better. Does that make sense?

I ordered dual PB2000, will I need a minidsp to integrate the 2 pb2000 and the pc2000?
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post #26354 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Omi View Post
Thank you Alan, was playing with phase and taking measurements. The flattest response before calibration was with the nearfield sub at 180deg. However, that phase didn't provide the highest combined SPL, that was between 90-120deg I think, but it was still boomy compared with 180 which was better. Does that make sense?
Whatever sounds best to you for now, but then.....

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I ordered dual PB2000, will I need a minidsp to integrate the 2 pb2000 and the pc2000?
I would highly recommend it. Even if your AVR had the ability to calibrate two subs, once you get more than two you really need a way to properly time align them and the MiniDSP is the cheapest and simplest way to get there.
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post #26355 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 05:30 PM
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Hi guys,

Identical sub model and brand is ideal way to go if going dual..

And now i currently i have one 2010 purchased pb12plus with 520watts BASH AMP.. and now im contemplating on buying one more pb12+ but with 800watts SLEDGE AMP..

1. is it a mismatch since they have different amp even same cabinet?




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post #26356 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 05:35 PM
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Hi guys,

Identical sub model and brand is ideal way to go if going dual..

And now i currently i have one 2010 purchased pb12plus with 520watts BASH AMP.. and now im contemplating on buying one more pb12+ but with 800watts SLEDGE AMP..

1. is it a mismatch since they have different amp even same cabinet?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Different amp, driver and box construction.

Put the BASH NF and the Sledge up front.
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post #26357 of 26364 Old 07-14-2017, 09:07 PM
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Different amp, driver and box construction.

Put the BASH NF and the Sledge up front.


Oh! i thought the only difference is the AMP


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post #26358 of 26364 Old 07-15-2017, 01:49 AM
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Oh! i thought the only difference is the AMP


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Nope. They design each driver and amp as a combo. Different power ratings, limiters, so on.

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post #26359 of 26364 Old Today, 03:32 AM
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Nope. They design each driver and amp as a combo. Different power ratings, limiters, so on.
My 2007 PB 13 Ultra came with the BASH 750 and now it has the 1000 Sledge with same driver.

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post #26360 of 26364 Old Today, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
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Nope. They design each driver and amp as a combo. Different power ratings, limiters, so on.
My 2007 PB 13 Ultra came with the BASH 750 and now it has the 1000 Sledge with same driver.
Ed Mullen himself confirmed that.
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post #26361 of 26364 Old Today, 07:11 AM
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I know it's ideal to go dual with exactly the same subs. But is it possible to go mixed a ported one and to a sealed one i.e PB-1000/SB-1000 and get a decent result?
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post #26362 of 26364 Old Today, 08:31 AM
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I know it's ideal to go dual with exactly the same subs. But is it possible to go mixed a ported one and to a sealed one i.e PB-1000/SB-1000 and get a decent result?
It has been posted here, that it can be done, although not recommended, but it is difficult to get a sealed and ported to work right together unless you know what you are doing.
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post #26363 of 26364 Old Today, 11:12 AM
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It has been posted here, that it can be done, although not recommended, but it is difficult to get a sealed and ported to work right together unless you know what you are doing.


I think I'm going to pass on doing this one. I guess this is the reason I am having difficulty blending my old sub which is sealed to my new PB-1000. Thanks!
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post #26364 of 26364 Old Today, 02:52 PM
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SVS Ultra SB16 digital screen.

Does anyone else's screen turn on for no reason? I have it set to timeout in 10 seconds (which doesn't work) and it just stays on all the time until I manually toggle it off in the app. Then a few hours later it pops back on. Is there a way to update the software?
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