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post #26371 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM
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If you are going to upgrade to an AVR with SubEQ HT, then it is less likely that you will need a MiniDSP. That being said, there are plenty of folks around here with both.
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post #26372 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
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That is what I was thinking. Have the two PB2000's in the front connected to one of the sub outputs, treated as one (they will be equidistant to MLP) and have the PC2000 behind the couch to be connected to the second sub output.
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post #26373 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by guller View Post
SVS Ultra SB16 digital screen.



Does anyone else's screen turn on for no reason? I have it set to timeout in 10 seconds (which doesn't work) and it just stays on all the time until I manually toggle it off in the app. Then a few hours later it pops back on. Is there a way to update the software?


Quick tip. Set the Sub Display to Off in system settings. And leave timeout for 10 seconds. Not real intuitive but it will stay off doing that.


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post #26374 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Have you ever tried a sealed sub? I always owned ported subs then went to an SB13 because I hated the port chuffing when playing at loud volumes. I will never own another ported sub after going sealed. I listen 50/50 music and movies and I listen at very loud levels at times. 0 to -15 dependng on the source. I've never heard any unusual noises come from either of my dual 13's. Just a thought.
I haven't tried one mostly because i get little room gain in my fairly large room and i wasn't willing to give up the low end. I may have to just give it a shot though.
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post #26375 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
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Hey guys,
I made a post earlier in this thread about my pb12 plus potentially bottoming out during movies and making a sort of knocking noise. I was told to contact SVS, which i did, although they told me it was difficult to tell what was happening based on the videos i sent. I was told the issue would be escalated and i should expect a response by email, which I never received. I didn't feel like bothering SVS over what seemed to be an issue in only one movie so i let it be. But i watched WarCraft yesterday, since the ultimate list of bass movies thread here recommended it and again while most of the movie sounded great, I could hear some distracting "flapping" coming from the driver cone area occasionally. I replayed the scene to confirm that it wasn't chuffing that i was hearing. I ran a pb2000 along side it, which was actually chuffing a bit, but not enough to be audible over everything else playing in that scene, where as the flapping from the pb12 plus was (-10.0 MV on the AVR, -5.0db on subwoofer channel in the avr and -5.0db on the pb12plus itself).

I've also noticed this at high music playback (i play in the -5.0db to 0.0db range, since i like it loud sometimes and i only use 2 channels for music). The pb12 plus will (depending on the song of course) make a flapping noise that is audible over the music. It sounds kind of like a "poof" sound where you'd expect a lot of air to be coming out of the ports but their isn't. From the research I've done, it seems like the 12 plus is hitting it's excursion limits. But why is the pb2000, which seems to have a lot more driver movement than the 12 plus, not making these noises loud enough to be distracting and the 12 plus is?

I'm still within the 45 day trial period so i was honestly considering just returning it, but before i bothered SVS again i figured i'd try here one more time to see if i could get any advice. Faulty sub, or is this something expected when high powered subs are driven hard? I'm a bit of a newbie so i don't know if these are acceptable high drive artifacts from a sub or not (considering the fact that the pb2000, a lesser sub, doesn't do this audibly at my MLP).

The quality of the bass doesn't seem to suffer too much, there just seems to be an annoying "flapping" artifact.

Thanks .

**I should add that turning down the gain on the amp to -8.0db gets rid of the flapping in both the music and WarCraft but does not get rid of the knocking in the old post i made.
Hi,

Perhaps Ed will read your post and offer some insight into this, but I'm not too sure about the Plus. In theory, it's a more powerful sub than the PB (or PC2000). It's certainly more expensive. But, the 2000 series is a newer design, and it has the advantage of just having the single port tune. The Plus is an older model and is also the lowest model in the SVS food chain to offer variable tuning. And, it seems as if I hear more complaints about that model making bad noises than I do about lower or higher models.

At one time, I had three Pluses in my 6000^3 room, on a concrete slab. (The floor material makes a difference in the amount of tactile response we feel from our subs. Sealed subs are often able to provide perfectly adequate TR on suspended wood floors. Ported subs may be much more helpful for concrete floors.) I had two PC12 Pluses and one PB12 Plus. When I pushed them hard, I could hear them making bad noises. I upgraded to three 13 Ultras, in the same cabinet models, and had no more bad sounds.

I think that you can have ported subs, and enjoy the much more significant low bass and TR they can provide in a large room. But, the ported subs have to be powerful enough to handle what you are asking them to do. My Pluses weren't. My 13 Ultras were.

I would consider one of several options. First, you could return the Plus and get another PB2000. That seems counterintuitive since the Plus should be a better sub. But, as noted above, I'm not entirely sure it is. Second, you could return the Plus and get two PB2000's. Third, you could return the Plus and upgrade the 2000, for dual PB (or PC) 13 Ultra's. I actually like this last solution best, if you are also getting some occasional port chuffing from the 2000. Dual 13 Ultras would take your bass to a different level.

All but the first option involves some additional expense, but that sort of brings us back to the original proposition that ported subs are great as long as you have sufficiently powerful subs for what you are asking them to do. Sealed subs don't generally make any bad noises when they run out of gas, they just stop playing any louder. However, they run out of gas much sooner, below about 50Hz, than ported subs do. And, that is particularly the case if we have large rooms and if we want to hear and feel significant low bass.

Typically, it takes at least two sealed subs, of an equivalent model, to produce as much SPL below about 35Hz as a single ported sub. And, the <35Hz content in movies is what we pay extra for with our subs. So, if you want a lot of low bass, you can have more sealed subs, or fewer ported subs. But, in either case, your subs will have to be powerful enough to satisfy your specific listening objectives without prematurely running out of gas, or making any unpleasant noises.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
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post #26376 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 11:58 AM
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??? I have 2 SB-1000s. I love bass. My main use is movies, but I do play a lot of video games and listen to some rock music (Metallica)some bass hip hop and some rap. Would it be more beneficial to get the PB-1000s, or keep what I have?? Which ones will make me really feel the bass, but clean powerful bass?
Thank You!
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post #26377 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MATT J View Post
??? I have 2 SB-1000s. I love bass. My main use is movies, but I do play a lot of video games and listen to some rock music (Metallica)some bass hip hop and some rap. Would it be more beneficial to get the PB-1000s, or keep what I have?? Which ones will make me really feel the bass, but clean powerful bass?
Thank You!
Hi Matt,

I didn't mean to create any controversy, or to make anyone rethink his subs. I was just responding to that poster's specific situation. Some people prefer sealed subs for music, or for their smaller form factor. And, ported subs can chuff if they are pushed too hard with low frequencies. On the other hand, ported subs are also typically able to deliver more SPL below about 50 or 60Hz, and a lot more below about 35Hz than comparable sealed subs. So, a lot depends on your individual preferences and on your specific room, listening distances, etc.

Here is some information which will let you compare earlier SVS sealed and ported subs of the same model. The difference in output at various frequencies should be roughly comparable to the difference in output between SB1000's and PB1000's. You can compare the difference in output between the PB12-NSD and the SB12-NSD and draw your own conclusions as to which you might prefer. Essentially, the ported subs will produce much louder bass below about 35Hz. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Here is something to think about, though. If you are happy now with your sealed subs, you might not want to become unhappy just because ported subs would give you more clean bass. Ported subs are larger and more expensive to make. But, they can deliver more SPL in the low bass range, and they can provide more tactile response than equivalent model sealed subs. Some people will prefer those attributes and some won't.

Regards,
Mike
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post #26378 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Perhaps Ed will read your post and offer some insight into this, but I'm not too sure about the Plus. In theory, it's a more powerful sub than the PB (or PC2000). It's certainly more expensive. But, the 2000 series is a newer design, and it has the advantage of just having the single port tune. The Plus is an older model and is also the lowest model in the SVS food chain to offer variable tuning. And, it seems as if I hear more complaints about that model making bad noises than I do about lower or higher models.

At one time, I had three Pluses in my 6000^3 room, on a concrete slab. (The floor material makes a difference in the amount of tactile response we feel from our subs. Sealed subs are often able to provide perfectly adequate TR on suspended wood floors. Ported subs may be much more helpful for concrete floors.) I had two PC12 Pluses and one PB12 Plus. When I pushed them hard, I could hear them making bad noises. I upgraded to three 13 Ultras, in the same cabinet models, and had no more bad sounds.

I think that you can have ported subs, and enjoy the much more significant low bass and TR they can provide in a large room. But, the ported subs have to be powerful enough to handle what you are asking them to do. My Pluses weren't. My 13 Ultras were.

I would consider one of several options. First, you could return the Plus and get another PB2000. That seems counterintuitive since the Plus should be a better sub. But, as noted above, I'm not entirely sure it is. Second, you could return the Plus and get two PB2000's. Third, you could return the Plus and upgrade the 2000, for dual PB (or PC) 13 Ultra's. I actually like this last solution best, if you are also getting some occasional port chuffing from the 2000. Dual 13 Ultras would take your bass to a different level.

All but the first option involves some additional expense, but that sort of brings us back to the original proposition that ported subs are great as long as you have sufficiently powerful subs for what you are asking them to do. Sealed subs don't generally make any bad noises when they run out of gas, they just stop playing any louder. However, they run out of gas much sooner, below about 50Hz, than ported subs do. And, that is particularly the case if we have large rooms and if we want to hear and feel significant low bass.

Typically, it takes at least two sealed subs, of an equivalent model, to produce as much SPL below about 35Hz as a single ported sub. And, the <35Hz content in movies is what we pay extra for with our subs. So, if you want a lot of low bass, you can have more sealed subs, or fewer ported subs. But, in either case, your subs will have to be powerful enough to satisfy your specific listening objectives without prematurely running out of gas, or making any unpleasant noises.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for the advice. At the moment my room needs duals, and getting dual 13's would considerably increase my budget over the dual 12s so i wouldn't be able to take that on right now. I was considering keeping the 12 plus(even with the artifacts the extra output down low is considerable) and just saving up for about a year and purchasing dual 16s (at once). Or i could trade in the 12 plus for a 13 and add another 13 down the road.

Which option do you think is preferable? The 13s would save me quite a bit of money and i can't seem to tell if the 16s are really worth the extra cash.
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post #26379 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
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Originally Posted by MATT J View Post
??? I have 2 SB-1000s. I love bass. My main use is movies, but I do play a lot of video games and listen to some rock music (Metallica)some bass hip hop and some rap. Would it be more beneficial to get the PB-1000s, or keep what I have?? Which ones will make me really feel the bass, but clean powerful bass?
Thank You!
Hi Matt,

I didn't mean to create any controversy, or to make anyone rethink his subs. I was just responding to that poster's specific situation. Some people prefer sealed subs for music, or for their smaller form factor. And, ported subs can chuff if they are pushed too hard with low frequencies. On the other hand, ported subs are also typically able to deliver more SPL below about 50 or 60Hz, and a lot more below about 35Hz than comparable sealed subs. So, a lot depends on your individual preferences and on your specific room, listening distances, etc.

Here is some information which will let you compare earlier SVS sealed and ported subs of the same model. The difference in output at various frequencies should be roughly comparable to the difference in output between SB1000's and PB1000's. You can compare the difference in output between the PB12-NSD and the SB12-NSD and draw your own conclusions as to which you might prefer. Essentially, the ported subs will produce much louder bass below about 35Hz. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Here is something to think about, though. If you are happy now with your sealed subs, you might not want to become unhappy just because ported subs would give you more clean bass. Ported subs are larger and more expensive to make. But, they can deliver more SPL in the low bass range, and they can provide more tactile response than equivalent model sealed subs. Some people will prefer those attributes and some won't.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you! No controversy at all, just a coincidence. I have been thinking about this since I bought the SB1000s. I feel like I'm missing that punch in the chest bass. The 1000s are in my price range so that is as much as I can pay. I have a marantz sr6011, my room is 13'x 23' and I sit roughly 10-11' away from the subs. Don't get me wrong the SB1000s are loud shake the house watching a movie I don't want to loose that, but I don't have that punch in the chest bass listening to music. In your opinion do you think that the PB1000s are what I'm looking for. Also don't know if going from a 12" subwoofer SB1000 to a 10"subwoofer PB1000 is a problem as well.
Thank you again!
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post #26380 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
Thanks for the advice. At the moment my room needs duals, and getting dual 13's would considerably increase my budget over the dual 12s so i wouldn't be able to take that on right now. I was considering keeping the 12 plus(even with the artifacts the extra output down low is considerable) and just saving up for about a year and purchasing dual 16s (at once). Or i could trade in the 12 plus for a 13 and add another 13 down the road.

Which option do you think is preferable? The 13s would save me quite a bit of money and i can't seem to tell if the 16s are really worth the extra cash.
You are very welcome! It's hard to know what is the best option, but I think that the flapping sound you hear would be irritating and something you might find yourself listening for. If you were able to position your PB2000 much closer to your listening position than a replacement PB13, trading in your Plus now might be a very good option. Then, you could save for the opportunity to replace the PB2000 with the second PB13. And, that still wouldn't preclude an eventual upgrade path to dual PB16's at some point.

Going from where you are now to dual PB13's would be a big upgrade, in my opinion. Going from dual PB13's to dual PB16's would be a smaller upgrade. The 16 Ultras have some very cool features, but from a performance standpoint, you would only be gaining about an average of 4db below about 35Hz over the PB13's. Of course, that extra SPL is right in the range where I said we pay extra to have it for movies. But, considering the price difference, I would recommend moving to PB13's first, and then only if you found yourself still wanting Moar, upgrading once again to the PB16's.

I have both PB16's and a PB13. So, I feel in a fairly good position to give you objective advice on this.

Regards,
Mike
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post #26381 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MATT J View Post
Thank you! No controversy at all, just a coincidence. I have been thinking about this since I bought the SB1000s. I feel like I'm missing that punch in the chest bass. The 1000s are in my price range so that is as much as I can pay. I have a marantz sr6011, my room is 13'x 23' and I sit roughly 10-11' away from the subs. Don't get me wrong the SB1000s are loud shake the house watching a movie I don't want to loose that, but I don't have that punch in the chest bass listening to music. In your opinion do you think that the PB1000s are what I'm looking for. Also don't know if going from a 12" subwoofer SB1000 to a 10"subwoofer PB1000 is a problem as well.
Thank you again!
You are very welcome! Someone else had asked me in a PM whether the analogy to the NSD's was valid considering the difference in driver size---going from a 12" driver to a 10" and this was my response:

"FWIW, I think that the driver size would only make a db or so difference. A doubling in drivers is worth 3db, so a db, or at most 2db, should be the difference between the 10" driver and the 12" driver. The big difference between the two subs would still be the PB1000's much larger cabinet volume, and the port, which contributes to the low frequency SPL. It is also noteworthy that SVS shows a 5Hz difference in the -3db frequency between the two 1000's. Interestingly, with the two different 2000 models (SB versus PB), SVS only shows a 2db difference in low extension. But then, the frequencies below 20Hz are much harder to hit."

What you are describing, though, doesn't sound like something that going to the PB1000's would help you with. We feel chest punch in about the 50Hz to 100Hz range, and the full-range sealed subwoofers do just fine there. What would be helpful, perhaps, is a Behringer 1200D. That is a small ported mid-bass module, specifically designed to play a limited frequency range from about 50Hz up to 120Hz or so. They aren't expensive, and located close to your listening position, they can really increase that chest punch you are looking for.

Here is a thread which is devoted to the phenomenon of mid-bass chest punch, and which talks about that Behringer sub in detail.

Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

Regards,
Mike
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post #26382 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MATT J View Post
Thank you! No controversy at all, just a coincidence. I have been thinking about this since I bought the SB1000s. I feel like I'm missing that punch in the chest bass. The 1000s are in my price range so that is as much as I can pay. I have a marantz sr6011, my room is 13'x 23' and I sit roughly 10-11' away from the subs. Don't get me wrong the SB1000s are loud shake the house watching a movie I don't want to loose that, but I don't have that punch in the chest bass listening to music. In your opinion do you think that the PB1000s are what I'm looking for. Also don't know if going from a 12" subwoofer SB1000 to a 10"subwoofer PB1000 is a problem as well.
Thank you again!
You are very welcome! Someone else had asked me in a PM whether the analogy to the NSD's was valid considering the difference in driver size---going from a 12" driver to a 10" and this was my response:

"FWIW, I think that the driver size would only make a db or so difference. A doubling in drivers is worth 3db, so a db, or at most 2db, should be the difference between the 10" driver and the 12" driver. The big difference between the two subs would still be the PB1000's much larger cabinet volume, and the port, which contributes to the low frequency SPL. It is also noteworthy that SVS shows a 5Hz difference in the -3db frequency between the two 1000's. Interestingly, with the two different 2000 models (SB versus PB), SVS only shows a 2db difference in low extension. But then, the frequencies below 20Hz are much harder to hit."

What you are describing, though, doesn't sound like something that going to the PB1000's would help you with. We feel chest punch in about the 50Hz to 100Hz range, and the full-range sealed subwoofers do just fine there. What would be helpful, perhaps, is a Behringer 1200D. That is a small ported mid-bass module, specifically designed to play a limited frequency range from about 50Hz up to 120Hz or so. They aren't expensive, and located close to your listening position, they can really increase that chest punch you are looking for.

Here is a thread which is devoted to the phenomenon of mid-bass chest punch, and which talks about that Behringer sub in detail.

Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

Regards,
Mike
Thank you very much for your advice! You have really helped me a lot with this nagging obsession I have!
Thank You!
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post #26383 of 26383 Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM
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You are very welcome! It's hard to know what is the best option, but I think that the flapping sound you hear would be irritating and something you might find yourself listening for. If you were able to position your PB2000 much closer to your listening position than a replacement PB13, trading in your Plus now might be a very good option. Then, you could save for the opportunity to replace the PB2000 with the second PB13. And, that still wouldn't preclude an eventual upgrade path to dual PB16's at some point.

Going from where you are now to dual PB13's would be a big upgrade, in my opinion. Going from dual PB13's to dual PB16's would be a smaller upgrade. The 16 Ultras have some very cool features, but from a performance standpoint, you would only be gaining about an average of 4db below about 35Hz over the PB13's. Of course, that extra SPL is right in the range where I said we pay extra to have it for movies. But, considering the price difference, I would recommend moving to PB13's first, and then only if you found yourself still wanting Moar, upgrading once again to the PB16's.

I have both PB16's and a PB13. So, I feel in a fairly good position to give you objective advice on this.

Regards,
Mike
Yea that's pretty much what i figured. I'll just have to make my current setup work for now. I'll be looking out for the pb13 in the outlet (hopefully they drop a little for black friday/cyber monday).
Thanks .
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