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post #26401 of 26423 Old 08-06-2017, 09:54 AM
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I currently have a PB2000 and have the opportunity to get a second. I have a Denon x2100w, but it does not have multi sub EQ. What is the best way to calibrate the two subs?

Keep in mind, I'm not an audio expert and do not have a lot of experience in this area.

Any help would be appreciated.

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post #26402 of 26423 Old 08-06-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dprizal View Post
I currently have a PB2000 and have the opportunity to get a second. I have a Denon x2100w, but it does not have multi sub EQ. What is the best way to calibrate the two subs?

Keep in mind, I'm not an audio expert and do not have a lot of experience in this area.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Hi,

Starting with level-matching, I would allow Audyssey to level-match the two subs for you. I would run each one separately into your single sub out for the first three mic positions (I think that the Denon's require three before you can calibrate) and then calibrate. That will allow you to get the two subs balanced equally as far as SPL. Once the gains on both subs are set to provide equal SPL at the main listening position, just Y-connect the two subs into your single sub out and now run the full calibration routine and save it. Audyssey will only set a single distance for the two subs, but if they are reasonably equidistant, that won't be an issue.

In all versions of Audyssey (and in other automated room correction systems) all subs in a system, however connected, are EQed as one. So, Audyssey will set the same filters for all of the subs, based on their combined sound. The only thing that two sub outs would do differently is to set levels and distances (timing) separately for dual subs. And, using the technique described in the first paragraph, you can mimic Audyssey's level-setting process yourself by matching the trim levels (via gain adjustments) one at a time. (Of course, XT-32 with SubEQ does have more control points in its EQ, but that is a separate issue.)

The subwoofer guide, linked below, will give you some additional information about Audyssey's operation with respect to subwoofers.

Regards,
Mike
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post #26403 of 26423 Old 08-06-2017, 07:51 PM
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Hi,

Starting with level-matching, I would allow Audyssey to level-match the two subs for you. I would run each one separately into your single sub out for the first three mic positions (I think that the Denon's require three before you can calibrate) and then calibrate. That will allow you to get the two subs balanced equally as far as SPL. Once the gains on both subs are set to provide equal SPL at the main listening position, just Y-connect the two subs into your single sub out and now run the full calibration routine and save it. Audyssey will only set a single distance for the two subs, but if they are reasonably equidistant, that won't be an issue.

In all versions of Audyssey (and in other automated room correction systems) all subs in a system, however connected, are EQed as one. So, Audyssey will set the same filters for all of the subs, based on their combined sound. The only thing that two sub outs would do differently is to set levels and distances (timing) separately for dual subs. And, using the technique described in the first paragraph, you can mimic Audyssey's level-setting process yourself by matching the trim levels (via gain adjustments) one at a time. (Of course, XT-32 with SubEQ does have more control points in its EQ, but that is a separate issue.)

The subwoofer guide, linked below, will give you some additional information about Audyssey's operation with respect to subwoofers.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for the response! Just so I understand correct, plug sub A into sub-pre1 and sub B into sub-pre2 and run the first three positions of the test. Next use a Y connect for both subs from a single sub-pre and finish the remaining positions, correct?

What I'm not sure about is when I'm supposed to mess with the gain for trim levels? Sorry, still new to this.

Thanks again!

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post #26404 of 26423 Old 08-07-2017, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dprizal View Post
Thanks for the response! Just so I understand correct, plug sub A into sub-pre1 and sub B into sub-pre2 and run the first three positions of the test. Next use a Y connect for both subs from a single sub-pre and finish the remaining positions, correct?

What I'm not sure about is when I'm supposed to mess with the gain for trim levels? Sorry, still new to this.

Thanks again!

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You are very welcome, and don't worry about needing additional clarification! This stuff is confusing to all of us at first. But, that's not quite what I am suggesting. Your Denon has a single sub out. You can plug either one sub into that sub out, or two or more by using Y-connectors. What I am suggesting is that you plug one sub at a time into the Denon sub out. Connect just Sub 1 into the sub out on your Denon AVR. Run Audyssey and let it set the trim level on your sub where you want it. As noted in the guide, you will probably want to have the gain a little higher than Audyssey tells you to so that you can get a negative trim. (Just read the guide over again until you understand this part.)

Then, disconnect Sub 1 from the AVR, and connect Sub 2 in its place. Repeat the same procedure that you used for Sub 1. Now, Sub 1 and Sub 2 have the gains set where they will produce the same SPL at your listening position. Than, connect the two subs via a Y-Connector into the sub out on your AVR, and run the full Audyssey calibration and store it. Your subs will play the same SPL at your listening position and both subs will be EQed. As long as the subs are reasonably equidistant from your listening position, the distance setting will also be correct.

This is just a method to allow the more accurate Audyssey program to set the levels of your two subs for you, rather than using a less accurate SPL meter.

Regards,
Mike
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Last edited by mthomas47; 08-07-2017 at 12:34 PM.
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post #26405 of 26423 Old 08-07-2017, 04:45 PM
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Ok I'm reading here and it is time to protect Pluses reputation

Dual Pluses are excellent subs and will leave PC-2000 simply behind like it or not so as PC13-Ultras will do same with Pluses. When I was shopping for subs I had 2 Pluses and single Ultra at home and it was easy choice kept dual Pluses over single Ultra.
When new 16" line show up I talked a lot with SVS (Ed and few more guys) about to upgrade to SB-16 because PB-16 is simply way too big and I can't fit them in. All answers same if I like ported movies subs what I have dual SB-16 will not do much different if any. Way to go is one day upgrade with dual Ultras PC version when I get to point when I will think what to upgrade now . I still enjoying Pluses every day and for any our listening level movies and even crazy party never had any issue with them.
+1. Unless you really need the SPL of the 15" or bigger subs dual PC12+ (or PB) are excellent subs. In 16hz mode they provide excellent low end extension and sound quality. I went up the SVS line from PB-1000 to PC-2000 to PC12+ and then duals. Very happy with mine with no plans for more sub upgrades in this room. I find an excuse every day to listen.

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post #26406 of 26423 Old 08-09-2017, 02:18 PM
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Hey guys, i currently run dual PC13 ultras in the front corners of my fully treated dedicated HT. I just added the second after several years and it made a big difference and sounds great. In fact it was so great, i have been getting the idea of adding 2 more subs for each of the rear corners. But i am tapped out and more SVS would be too much $$. I was considering as a fun project building 2 sealed 18" subs for the back with one of the bundles from parts express. How well do you think i could get them to integrate? I have a Denon 6200 with multeq xt32 and dual sub outs. I could also get miniDSP to help pull all 4 together if needed. Has anyone tried this?
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post #26407 of 26423 Old 08-10-2017, 08:52 AM
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Hey guys, i currently run dual PC13 ultras in the front corners of my fully treated dedicated HT. I just added the second after several years and it made a big difference and sounds great. In fact it was so great, i have been getting the idea of adding 2 more subs for each of the rear corners. But i am tapped out and more SVS would be too much $$. I was considering as a fun project building 2 sealed 18" subs for the back with one of the bundles from parts express. How well do you think i could get them to integrate? I have a Denon 6200 with multeq xt32 and dual sub outs. I could also get miniDSP to help pull all 4 together if needed. Has anyone tried this?
I'm no expert myself but the general advice from experienced users as well as SVS when this question comes up is that while mixing ported and sealed can be done it's not usually recommended as it is difficult, time consuming, and may still never integrate as well. I would say go DIY ported subs or maybe go for cheaper commercial ported subs that are in the same ballpark as the PC13 such as the PSA 15V or Hsu VT-3 MK5.
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post #26408 of 26423 Old 08-11-2017, 01:32 AM
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+1. Unless you really need the SPL of the 15" or bigger subs dual PC12+ (or PB) are excellent subs. In 16hz mode they provide excellent low end extension and sound quality. I went up the SVS line from PB-1000 to PC-2000 to PC12+ and then duals. Very happy with mine with no plans for more sub upgrades in this room. I find an excuse every day to listen.
I was using a 15-year old Klipsch KSW-12 before I took the plunge on dual PC12 Plusses.

Though I had 2, I only hooked up one at first (for about a month), to compare with the Klipsch. Holy mother of God, the Klipsch may as well have not even existed! Until I got SVS, I had assumed the Klipsch was a pretty decent sub, and boy was I wrong >.<

I'm very happy with my Plusses so far My house is open floorplan, and they're powerful enough to sometimes knock items off my kitchen counter 2 rooms away. But of course now I want even MORE and am wistfully eyeing dual PB16 Ultras and wishing for the day I could afford them.
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post #26409 of 26423 Old 08-11-2017, 03:41 AM
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I was using a 15-year old Klipsch KSW-12 before I took the plunge on dual PC12 Plusses.

Though I had 2, I only hooked up one at first (for about a month), to compare with the Klipsch. Holy mother of God, the Klipsch may as well have not even existed! Until I got SVS, I had assumed the Klipsch was a pretty decent sub, and boy was I wrong >.<

I'm very happy with my Plusses so far My house is open floorplan, and they're powerful enough to sometimes knock items off my kitchen counter 2 rooms away. But of course now I want even MORE and am wistfully eyeing dual PB16 Ultras and wishing for the day I could afford them.
Same here Keith I moved two of my old Klipsch Synergy Sub 12" 300/650 watt peak to the bedroom system and set my Heresy II on them One SVS PB 13 Ultra took my HT system to a different level. I will never sell my SVS or my Klipsch Cornwalls I purchased new in 1979. I purchased several of these entry level Klipsch subs used in 2007 and one new for $199.00 Amazon Prime member free shiping on Black Friday 5 years ago, all are still working. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIAC4Z5CF3065 for 200 bucks not bad starter sub for a small room but a one hit wonder. SPOILED now with the PB 13 Ultra

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post #26410 of 26423 Old 08-11-2017, 06:10 AM
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Just bought a JBL Flip 4 portable bluetooth speaker for primarily for my kids to listen to when outside or on vacation. Sounds pretty good considering it's size. My 8 yo son who is starting to appreciate higher quality sound and our living room setup says "hey Dad, it's like a mini version of our subwoofers". He's actually partially right as it's a cylinder shape with bass drivers on either end (although they are passive radiators). Sorry for the random post.

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post #26411 of 26423 Old 08-11-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Ok I'm reading here and it is time to protect Pluses reputation

Dual Pluses are excellent subs and will leave PC-2000 simply behind like it or not so as PC13-Ultras will do same with Pluses. When I was shopping for subs I had 2 Pluses and single Ultra at home and it was easy choice kept dual Pluses over single Ultra.
When new 16" line show up I talked a lot with SVS (Ed and few more guys) about to upgrade to SB-16 because PB-16 is simply way too big and I can't fit them in. All answers same if I like ported movies subs what I have dual SB-16 will not do much different if any. Way to go is one day upgrade with dual Ultras PC version when I get to point when I will think what to upgrade now . I still enjoying Pluses every day and for any our listening level movies and even crazy party never had any issue with them.
I ended up testing the single pb13 ultra and dual pb12 pluses and ended up liking the 12 pluses a lot better. Turns out the artifact I heard was simply me over driving the 12 plus. After testing for some time by myself and talking it over with SVS, the noise I was hearing was the driver reaching it's excursion limits. Interestingly enough turning down the gain by a mere 2 db got rid of the artifact while only losing ~1-2db of output. Adding the second sub allowed me to recoup about 4-5db of output without constantly running either sub at it's limit and i'm much happier now .

The pb13 was nice but didn't provide as much output as the two 12s.

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post #26412 of 26423 Old 08-11-2017, 11:54 PM
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I ended up testing the single pb13 ultra and dual pb12 pluses and ended up liking the 12 pluses a lot better. Turns out the artifact I heard was simply me over driving the 12 plus. After testing for some time by myself and talking it over with SVS, the noise I was hearing was the driver reaching it's excursion limits. Interestingly enough turning down the gain by a mere 2 db got rid of the artifact while only losing ~1-2db of output. Adding the second sub allowed me to recoup about 4-5db of output without constantly running either sub at it's limit and i'm much happier now .

The pb13 was nice but didn't provide as much output as the two 12s.
Makes sense given that the pb13 is more of an incremental upgrade over the pb12+. I previously had a single PC-2000 and wanted a little more. At that time I wasn't thinking duals mostly due to WAF so I was debating upgrading to PC12+ vs PC13. Ultimately went with PC12+ plus which I liked. On rare occasions I hit its limits too but also had FR issues. Eventually added a second and with that have been so happy. Smooth FR and more headroom. Glad I didn't upgrade to the single PC13. The extra height would have looked out of place and the extra output would have been wasted in my room. I also really have liked having a digital gain control. I did a lot of experimenting with dual placement and REW and knowing exactly where gain was set each time I moved and re-ran audyssey was invaluable.

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post #26413 of 26423 Old 08-12-2017, 12:00 AM
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Do you guys think dual PC2000's would work well in a 2500 cubic foot room?
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post #26414 of 26423 Old 08-12-2017, 06:17 AM
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Do you guys think dual PC2000's would work well in a 2500 cubic foot room?
Hi,

I don't want to overcomplicate things for you, but that is actually a much more difficult question than it sounds. The biggest variable in the equation is you, in terms of how much bass you end up wanting. The room size is important, because that tells you something about how much room gain you might get. And, at 2500^3, you should get pretty good bass reinforcement below about 25Hz. How close you are to your subwoofers also matters, because they lose some volume and some tactile impact as distances increase. And, in a smaller room you will usually be closer to your subs than you might be in a large room.

But, the biggest variable is how loudly you like to listen, and how much sub boost you want to use when you do. And, only you can know that. I think that dual PC2000's would have a very good chance of satisfying the great majority of people in a 2500^3 room. And, one of the really nice things about buying SVS subs is the 45-day free trial period which lets you try the subs risk-free. At the end of that time, you will either know that the PC2000's give you exactly what you want, or that they don't. If they don't, you could look at the possibility of going with something even more powerful.

But, there won't be any way to find out until you actually try some subs, and I can't think of a more risk-free method of finding out than this one.

Regards,
Mike
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post #26415 of 26423 Old 08-12-2017, 11:09 AM
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Do you guys think dual PC2000's would work well in a 2500 cubic foot room?
I have dual PC2000's in my 4500 cubic foot room and I find them to work great.

I tend to listen to music and movies at mid volume levels and have found them to be more than enough for me. My main listening position is about 12-16 feet away from them. I am kicking myself that I did not go with dual subwoofers sooner. I will never go back to a single subwoofer setup again, ever.

Also, if you listen at lower volume levels like I do throughout the day I would suggest using a Y splitter to connect your AVR to your PC2000's as this allows them to wake up and turn on at lower master volume levels. The Y splitter I just linked are the ones that I bought and use right now on each of my PC2000's and they work well.

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post #26416 of 26423 Old 08-12-2017, 11:18 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I like to run my subwoofer hot, usually 4-6 db. I never listen at reference level, always at least 10 db below reference but usually 15-20 below. My AVR has 2 subwoofer outputs, I have the Denon 4311ci. I want to upgrade my receiver next year to one that can do 4K HDR.
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post #26417 of 26423 Old 08-12-2017, 12:06 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I like to run my subwoofer hot, usually 4-6 db. I never listen at reference level, always at least 10 db below reference but usually 15-20 below. My AVR has 2 subwoofer outputs, I have the Denon 4311ci. I want to upgrade my receiver next year to one that can do 4K HDR.
You are welcome! I still think that you will just need to try a pair of subs to find out what works in your specific circumstances. But, extrapolating from what you just said: if you are using 4-6db of boost, on top of DEQ, at listening levels of about -15 (occasionally up to -10) then I would say that you might be getting close to the output limits of dual PC2000's. But, a lot depends on room placement. I would try a pair to find out whether they are enough.

One thing to keep in mind is that, sometimes when we add more subwoofage, we find that our preference for having more bass goes up as well. So, it is generally better to have a little more output than we think we will need. Of course, with SVS's upgrade plan, you will be pretty well covered if you decide later that you want even more SPL, or tactile response, than a pair of PC2000's can provide.

Regards,
Mike
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post #26418 of 26423 Old 08-13-2017, 01:38 PM
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One thing to keep in mind is that, sometimes when we add more subwoofage, we find that our preference for having more bass goes up as well. So, it is generally better to have a little more output than we think we will need. Of course, with SVS's upgrade plan, you will be pretty well covered if you decide later that you want even more SPL, or tactile response, than a pair of PC2000's can provide.
Yup, I had this in mind as well, as I was deciding between getting dual PC2000's or dual PC12-Plus's. After recieving the dual PC2000's I found them to be more then enough for my setup so I did not exchange up to dual PC12-Plus's. However, if price is not a concern I would just go with the dual PC12-Plus's.
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post #26419 of 26423 Old 08-15-2017, 01:34 AM
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Decided to have some fun with my car. I had an older 13-Ultra woofer with a burnt voice coil. I had it fix at my car audio guy and we decided to switch my JL sub with my SVS.. So now I have a SVS sub in the trunk powered by a mono block car sub amp. Holy Jesus this thing is powerful... Maybe a stupid idea to do this.. I will end up being deaf !


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post #26420 of 26423 Old 08-15-2017, 07:06 AM
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Decided to have some fun with my car. I had an older 13-Ultra woofer with a burnt voice coil. I had it fix at my car audio guy and we decided to switch my JL sub with my SVS.. So now I have a SVS sub in the trunk powered by a mono block car sub amp. Holy Jesus this thing is powerful... Maybe a stupid idea to do this.. I will end up being deaf !


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That is very rad! As a JL guy, which sub did you replace? How does it compare? When I had a sub in my trunk, I got the best results (most TR) when I faced the woofer forward toward the front. Can you or have you tried this as well?

Thanks for sharing!
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post #26421 of 26423 Old 08-15-2017, 08:31 AM
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Decided to have some fun with my car. I had an older 13-Ultra woofer with a burnt voice coil. I had it fix at my car audio guy and we decided to switch my JL sub with my SVS.. So now I have a SVS sub in the trunk powered by a mono block car sub amp. Holy Jesus this thing is powerful... Maybe a stupid idea to do this.. I will end up being deaf !


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nice!!

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post #26422 of 26423 Old 08-16-2017, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by januza View Post
Decided to have some fun with my car. I had an older 13-Ultra woofer with a burnt voice coil. I had it fix at my car audio guy and we decided to switch my JL sub with my SVS.. So now I have a SVS sub in the trunk powered by a mono block car sub amp. Holy Jesus this thing is powerful... Maybe a stupid idea to do this.. I will end up being deaf !


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Awww dangit....I have a JL Stealthbox with 2 12" subs in my truck. Now you have me thinking about swapping in SVS PC12+ drivers!

Not just the power, but the sub-20hz FR......that would kick ass!

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post #26423 of 26423 Old 08-16-2017, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith Zuehlke View Post
Awww dangit....I have a JL Stealthbox with 2 12" subs in my truck. Now you have me thinking about swapping in SVS PC12+ drivers!



Not just the power, but the sub-20hz FR......that would kick ass!


It's good fun. They go very deep compared to regular car audio subs. So sound is a little different than what ur used to. But dang it hit haaaaaard!!!!


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Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000

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