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post #26551 of 26571 Old 10-10-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
SVS said that the cylinder would be too big to be practical.
Water heater?!?

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post #26552 of 26571 Old 10-10-2017, 06:21 PM
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I did see SVS respond to a fan's question on Facebook last week about a PC16 by telling them to "stay tuned" and that we hadn't seen the last of the PC subs. Perhaps they changed their mind?

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post #26553 of 26571 Old 10-10-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ebdixson View Post
I did see SVS respond to a fan's question on Facebook last week about a PC16 by telling them to "stay tuned" and that we hadn't seen the last of the PC subs. Perhaps they changed their mind?

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I hope not. I like the PC format. I have 2 Ultra's.

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post #26554 of 26571 Old 10-10-2017, 10:43 PM
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Let me know if you are still interested. I have 2 PB13-Ultras with Bash amps. I can look this up for you.
that'd be terriffic! i've scraped off some of the goo (glue or whatever), and it is indeed R48 instead of R4R.
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post #26555 of 26571 Old 10-11-2017, 06:26 AM
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I don't think comparing amplifiers operating temperature when using different drivers with diffrerent impedance curve, placed in different enclosures (Klipsch subs are most likely much smaller and potentially sealed?) serves any purpose. Having said that I would expect Sledge amps to run cooler than Bash amps due to the difference in design topology (class D vs class AB).
I had a thermistor failure on one of my amps. I couldn't get part number from SVS, but found it online. The amps work as a champ after repair. I have thought of replacing amps on my subs, but there are several things that turned me away from sledge amps:
1) despite 250W gain, you have significant loss in SNR performance. I am not sure if current generation has the same problem, but there were tons of complains when sledge amps came out and people were reporting hum coming out of the sub from a normal listening distance! I have asked Ed to share audio precision measurements but he politely declined. Knowing this and the fact that I use my subs are placed in near field, Sledge amps were a downgrade in my book. 250W of extra power is a plus, but it is a plus only in the case when you use it. I don't get anywhere near the limits of 750W Bash amp in my setup. In terms of SPL the difference is likely unnoticeable anyway, but perhaps improvement in the compressors could make it a better choice for those that run their subs "hot".
2) Less tuning options. Gone is 10Hz tune and 15Hz was replaced with 16Hz.
3) My ultras are setup in dedicated 2 channel room. There are no DSP controls (delay, crossover...). My speakers run full range signal and I use built-in 1 band PEQ. That is the only EQ that happens in this setup. The sledge amp with the builti-n DSP will add additional latency to the signal propagation delay which I have no control over. There were number of posts complaining about the dsp latency when people mixed bash and slede amps in their setups. For most users this is not a problem though as they use them in HT environment. Also additional 1 band of PEQ, ability to add gain could be a benefit to some.
4) Interface. Other than adjusting gain for PEQ I don't change settings very often. Also I have relatively easy access to control panels on both subs, I can see some use cases when accessing sledge amp controls is impractical. SVS realized that and made the big improvement in their 16" version.
I don't if SVS dropped 2 different sets of grilles at the same time Sledge amps were introduced or not. It is nice to have the option. It is true that most would prefer metal grilles but I can imagine installation where standard grille is the only option.
My point was with the thermometer is a great tool so I can see just hard any amp is working. SVS told me my SLEDGE should run under 104 degrees. You are correct heat temps will be different in class D VS AB etc.

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post #26556 of 26571 Old 10-11-2017, 06:55 AM
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I hope not. I like the PC format. I have 2 Ultra's.
I have also seen a comment from them recently where they state the cylinder format is far from done. The 16" driver would require an exceptionally large cylinder, but it would still be much more manageable and lighter than the box version. Nothing tops the overbuilt quality of SVS drivers.
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post #26557 of 26571 Old 10-11-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Shenefelt View Post
Is there a safe way to measure how much of the capability of my SB16 (pair) I am using. I do not want to overdrive them but do not know how to tell where I stand on their capability. If it is of any meaning, I have an Anthem 1120 receiver with its base management it has me set them at -17 dB to work out with it's level control. It provides about 75 dB room sound during the sweep scan around the separate speakers. To give 0 adjustment needed on the Anthem recommendation for the subs it needs a -17 dB setting on each of the two subs.
Hi Bill -

Since you have an SPL meter, a quick way to determine roughly how much additional headroom is left in the subwoofers is as follows:
  • select a demanding LFE passage in a Blu-ray movie
  • set your SPL meter to C/Fast
  • play the scene at your normal/typical master volume setting and note the peak SPL on the meter
  • give the subwoofers a 15-20 second resting period (to avoid a continuous duty cycle and thermal compression)
  • increase the master volume 3 dB
  • loop the same scene again and note the peak SPL - it should increase by 3 dB
  • repeat the above steps until the subwoofers start to compress - you will see 1-2 dB instead of the full 3 dB
  • at that point you are at the max linear/uncompressed level for the subs - at least for that scene
  • the difference between that master volume setting and your normal/typical master volume setting is roughly how much headroom the subwoofers have in reserve

Of course be mindful of your hearing and other speakers in the system too - you don't want to damage any other speakers just for the sake of this experiment. If you have an external amp you can always power down for the test.
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post #26558 of 26571 Old 10-11-2017, 01:15 PM
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Picking up my new PB-1000 today or tomorrow after my 12 year old Sony said, "Look, I'm old and can do dvd's, but not blu-rays?" Wish me luck.
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post #26559 of 26571 Old 10-11-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Hi Bill -

Since you have an SPL meter, a quick way to determine roughly how much additional headroom is left in the subwoofers is as follows:
  • select a demanding LFE passage in a Blu-ray movie
  • set your SPL meter to C/Fast
  • play the scene at your normal/typical master volume setting and note the peak SPL on the meter
  • give the subwoofers a 15-20 second resting period (to avoid a continuous duty cycle and thermal compression)
  • increase the master volume 3 dB
  • loop the same scene again and note the peak SPL - it should increase by 3 dB
  • repeat the above steps until the subwoofers start to compress - you will see 1-2 dB instead of the full 3 dB
  • at that point you are at the max linear/uncompressed level for the subs - at least for that scene
  • the difference between that master volume setting and your normal/typical master volume setting is roughly how much headroom the subwoofers have in reserve

Of course be mindful of your hearing and other speakers in the system too - you don't want to damage any other speakers just for the sake of this experiment. If you have an external amp you can always power down for the test.
Thanks Ed I will try this. One the members here posted something like this awhile back but never tried it, my battery was dead in my SPL meter and I got busy and forgot about it. I Googled "Thermal Compression" and found this explanation and much more. http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics...io/599946.html

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post #26560 of 26571 Old 10-11-2017, 07:28 PM
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that'd be terriffic! i've scraped off some of the goo (glue or whatever), and it is indeed R48 instead of R4R.
It is 0Ohm resistor. Bash has found an interesting way to solder resistor...


Note that yellow sticky stuff is not residue from leaked cap, I have read on this forum or elsewhere. It is some sort of clue they have used to secure components to PCBA. If you pay attention you will see other components covered with that compound (not capacitors). Also the placement of that compound is consisted when you look at the pictures posted by other members.

Since I had to move the sub and remove the amp I took advantage to do what I should have done originally when my amp failed and I had to replace thermistor (TH1). In case someone else runs into this problem here is the part number for it: Ametherm Part Number SL15 4R008-03. SVS guys posted it on another forum years ago. I bought a few of them just in case...
When I swapped mine I forgot to add some hot glue to it. Well it has been fixed now.
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post #26561 of 26571 Old 10-13-2017, 06:27 PM
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Hooked up my pb1000. Did the sub crawl, placed the sub where I heard and felt the bass, and ran YPAO from my yamaha receiver. Sub volume set at 2 o'clock, receiver set the volume of sub to -3.0. Played Transformers 4....barely any bass. The 12 year old sony had way more bass than this. However it rattled the wall and floor (while it's on a subdude), but no audible bass. However it did something no subwoofer (from a HTIB sub to dual 18 inch jbl synthesis subs and subs in theaters) ever did.......made me sick to my stomach.

SVS says I should up the volume on the sub to 4 o'clock and rerun YPAO. I'll do that when I feel better and take my anti-nausea meds.
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post #26562 of 26571 Old 10-14-2017, 07:15 AM
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Thanks Mike. I will go with the 2 PB2000 first and see what I get. They won't be equidistant to the MLP though - one will be at the front and the other in the rear opposite of the front sub. I recall watching an SVS video (see video below @ 3:45) where Ed Mullen stated that the best placement for dual subs was to place one in the front and one in the rear diagonally to each other.

https://www.svsound.com/blogs/videos...ple-subwoofers
Update: I have to say Mike's suggestion on the placement of the 2nd subwoofer is money. I installed the 2nd PB2K as suggested and it definitely sounds better and without holes in the bass frequency response. I can sit in the same spot now and feel the bass more evenly when listening to 2ch music, where before there was definitely a hole in the frequency response. I knew the hole was there, but figured there's no easy way to fix it and that I'd have to live with it, but this was a relatively easy way to fix the problem. I am going to connect the 3rd subwoofer and see how that sounds and if gets better, then there's no doubt a 3rd PB2K will be purchased.

Stay tuned...
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post #26563 of 26571 Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
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Or you could have sent the old amp to them and waited for a replacement. But most of us want the new amp NOW :-)

So I received the new amp on Friday and installed. I have been using it for the past few days and it is not popping anymore. As soon as they saw the video of the issue, they said it was a bad amp. It seems that diagnosis was correct. I sent the old amp back now.
This new amp is much more sensitive as you adjust the gain, I have this new amp at a lower setting than the other one cause it seems to hit stronger at a lower gain level.
So glad the issue is solved. The pop was really loud and always startled me, even though I knew it was coming, lol. Now it just activates with either no sound at all or just a light clicking sound.

Thanks for you all your help guys.
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post #26564 of 26571 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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in the trial period trying to decide between dual pc 13s vs dual sb 16s. pb 16 would be end game but as you can see from the available space in the below pic the pb 16s would be too big. i dont really feel/hear the low extension advantage the pc 13s have on paper. both are GREAT subs so its nit picking on which ones to keep.
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post #26565 of 26571 Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM
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Has anyone ever replaced the fuzzy fabric on the PC13? It appears to be a sock that may be able to be slid off. I bought a used PC13 today and it has been laid on it's side which caused creases or indentations in the cloth cover.
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post #26566 of 26571 Old Today, 05:01 AM
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Has anyone ever replaced the fuzzy fabric on the PC13? It appears to be a sock that may be able to be slid off. I bought a used PC13 today and it has been laid on it's side which caused creases or indentations in the cloth cover.
The sock is user replaceable. I think its this one for your sub, but I'd double check: https://www.svsound.com/products/rep...r-46-cylinders

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post #26567 of 26571 Old Today, 06:36 AM
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Hooked up my pb1000. Did the sub crawl, placed the sub where I heard and felt the bass, and ran YPAO from my yamaha receiver. Sub volume set at 2 o'clock, receiver set the volume of sub to -3.0. Played Transformers 4....barely any bass. The 12 year old sony had way more bass than this. However it rattled the wall and floor (while it's on a subdude), but no audible bass. However it did something no subwoofer (from a HTIB sub to dual 18 inch jbl synthesis subs and subs in theaters) ever did.......made me sick to my stomach.

SVS says I should up the volume on the sub to 4 o'clock and rerun YPAO. I'll do that when I feel better and take my anti-nausea meds.
I have a SB2000 and I think I am having the same issue. I am running a pioneer elite sc 95 receiver. Just seems like I am not getting as much bass as i should out of this woofer. Seems like I was getting more punch out of my 10 year old paradigm subwoofer. I currently have the volume on the subwoofer set to 1 oclock and my receiver sub volume set to -4.5. That is interesting they told you to set it to 4 oclock and rerun the calibration. In the manual that came with mine they suggest setting it between 10 and 12 oclock when running the receivers calibration tool.
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post #26568 of 26571 Old Today, 06:48 AM
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I have a SB2000 and I think I am having the same issue. I am running a pioneer elite sc 95 receiver. Just seems like I am not getting as much bass as i should out of this woofer. Seems like I was getting more punch out of my 10 year old paradigm subwoofer. I currently have the volume on the subwoofer set to 1 oclock and my receiver sub volume set to -4.5. That is interesting they told you to set it to 4 oclock and rerun the calibration. In the manual that came with mine they suggest setting it between 10 and 12 oclock when running the receivers calibration tool.

I just got a PB-1000 with a yamaha receiver. I set everything to small 80 hz crossover and also feel the bass doesn't seem particualry punchy or loud at all compared to my previous smaller klipsch. I have now set it at around 3 o clock on output and -1 volume on the receiver but I'd expect to get a bigger output than I am seeing at those settings. Is it ok to go much higher on the output? Everywhere I read I have seen people recommend 1-2 clock on output and I am already well past that.
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post #26569 of 26571 Old Today, 09:48 AM
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What could be happening with some of you guys that are coming from a smaller/cheaper sub is that it might actually have the same or more output in the upper bass than your new SVS and that will sound louder depending on the content you are listening to. It is when playing material with 20hz content that you will notice the difference and you old subwoofer wouldn't have been able to even produce it.

Here is a graph from Databass just for a visual. You can see the 10" Klipsch has more output up higher than the SVS 12" but down low it is a whole other story and it would take 8-10 of the Klipsch to match the SVS at 20hz. And the majority of bass content will be in the 30-40hz and up range so you will need to find movies that are tested and there is known content around 20hz to really hear and feel the difference. Music for sure favors 40-80hz+ for strong bass output. Output in the upper end from say 40hz up is easy to get so to speak, it is the stuff down at 20hz and below that is much harder to come by and get expensive to get higher output down low.

This thread has movies that have been tested and graphs with their frequency plots if you want to find movies with content in the lower FR. The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts

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post #26570 of 26571 Old Today, 11:02 AM
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What could be happening with some of you guys that are coming from a smaller/cheaper sub is that it might actually have the same or more output in the upper bass than your new SVS and that will sound louder depending on the content you are listening to. It is when playing material with 20hz content that you will notice the difference and you old subwoofer wouldn't have been able to even produce it.

Here is a graph from Databass just for a visual. You can see the 10" Klipsch has more output up higher than the SVS 12" but down low it is a whole other story and it would take 8-10 of the Klipsch to match the SVS at 20hz. And the majority of bass content will be in the 30-40hz and up range so you will need to find movies that are tested and there is known content around 20hz to really hear and feel the difference. Music for sure favors 40-80hz+ for strong bass output. Output in the upper end from say 40hz up is easy to get so to speak, it is the stuff down at 20hz and below that is much harder to come by and get expensive to get higher output down low.

This thread has movies that have been tested and graphs with their frequency plots if you want to find movies with content in the lower FR. The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts


Thanks for the info! I do think this may be part of the problem. It is still pretty new and I am not sure exactly which content to use to test it and also really how often it is going to be used/engaged. How often in general TV viewing is there output below 80 hz? Also any movie recommendations or youtube clips etc for testing would be great.
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post #26571 of 26571 Old Today, 12:25 PM
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Thanks for the info! I do think this may be part of the problem. It is still pretty new and I am not sure exactly which content to use to test it and also really how often it is going to be used/engaged. How often in general TV viewing is there output below 80 hz? Also any movie recommendations or youtube clips etc for testing would be great.
This video has some strong content in the teens and 20hz range. It starts around 45 seconds in.

Here is one of different frequencies, be careful playing these at high volumes for an extended period as they can be stressful on your subs. Turn down if you hear bad noises/distortion. I would just use it for a quick test to see what frequencies your sub can play or you can hear/feel.

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