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post #4741 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

when he says sub a is 10 times better than sub b, I will say again that he is clueless.

That's how it sounds TO ME. Not to you. But TO ME. It is MY opinion. Not yours. I am entitled to my opinion. Gee, this is getting ridiculous.
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post #4742 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Bass quality was 10 times better.

10 times better. Man, that's a lot! I can only imagine my Thanksgiving dinner being 10 times better. My stock in Apple and Google has done great. I can only imagine if if they had done 10 times better. I would probably have 10 times as many Submersives right now. Probably all of these -

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post #4743 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:20 PM
 
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I don't feel I need to defend my comments but 10 times better is the only way I could describe the sound. It didn't sound 20% better, or 40%. It sounded MUCH better, more articulate, cleaner, tighter. It was a MAJOR difference. People getting caught up with my wording, that's too bad. That's how I word things, to emphasize the difference the sub made TO ME.
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post #4744 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mdm1699 View Post

Yes they hit you in the chest. However, I HATED every single one of them for music.

Exactly what I mean ! I did not like them for music. Home theater was different. I listen to lots of music. Different types. Rock, Jazz, a little bit from all types of genres. I've come to the conclusion that if you want top notch sound quality for music, you have to pay for it and it's not cheap. I'm sure some will say that you don't have to spend to get great results but I would disagree based on what I've heard.
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post #4745 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:40 PM
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Heinrich, this is the Submersive thread. Do you have a Submersive? Have you heard one? Are you interested in buying one? Do you have questions about the Submersive? If the answer to any of these questions is "Yes", then lets talk about Submersives. If the answer is "NO", then take the off-topic conversation elsewhere.

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post #4746 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

10 times better. Man, that's a lot! I can only imagine my Thanksgiving dinner being 10 times better. My stock in Apple and Google has done great. I can only imagine if if they had done 10 times better. I would probably have 10 times as many Submersives right now. Probably all of these -


What a company! Looks like a buffet. I love folks who are passionate/obsessive about their products. Utmost respect.
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post #4747 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 02:51 PM
 
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Sorry Craig, when I have people attacking my opinions, I'm not the type to just ignore it. But that said, I am interested. I've never heard the Submersive personally but so far I've heard good things from people all over.

What I like about it is the build quality. It looks like it is built like a brick. Very solid. Can anyone give an indication as to the weight of the sub ?
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post #4748 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Sorry Craig, when I have people attacking my opinions, I'm not the type to just ignore it. But that said, I am interested. I've never heard the Submersive personally but so far I've heard good things from people all over.

What I like about it is the build quality. It looks like it is built like a brick. Very solid. Can anyone give an indication as to the weight of the sub ?

124 lbs / 136 lbs shipping weight
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3364736

I have 3 of them in Black Oak. It is built like a brick. The finish is very nice. It completely disappears when the lights go out. The other finishes look very nice also.

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post #4749 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by goneten View Post

That's rich, assuming this poor guy is a dealer simply because his subjective viewpoints differed from your own. Just when I thought ones argument couldn't get any kookier, then it happens and I get surprised all over again. Just a question or two. You proceeded to call this guy clueless and ill-informed because his views contradicted your own, so please explain how those two accusations hold any merit. I'll wait. Subjectivity is in the ear of the beholder, how could one possibly qualify his statements as ill-informed ? Asinine thing to say.



Believe me, no one cares. Your experiences and viewpoints are still inherently subjective and are no more important than anyone elses. Perhaps you should consider that the next time you try to prejudge and belittle a guy because his views differed (more like conflicted) from your own. As much as one would like their own experiences to act as gospel, it unfortunately is subject to critique just like everything else. Such is life.

This is great stuff. No man the guy took one more science class than you, he's got it all figured out. A guy stating his subjective can't be wrong, ever...

I find the ultra 13 feels more spingy than the submersive and under some circumstances in my room sounds more like a real un-mic'd kick drum located in the corner of room with a wooden suspended wood floor, which sounds awesome by the way. Whatever.
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post #4750 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 03:13 PM
 
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Wow, that's heavy ! Tell me about your experiences please. What subs did you listen to (don't tell me SVS lol !) before buying the submersives ? Thanks.
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post #4751 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 03:17 PM
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I think you misinterpreted my post which is easy to do ("the guy" wasn't referring to you and the kick drum stuff is my truth) , I was actually backing your right to give your impressions. Both subs are good and have their stengths but, imo, neither approach the be-all and end-all of bass reproduction as we know it for all rooms and all listeners.
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post #4752 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 03:43 PM
 
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I was talking to Craig John.
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post #4753 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

I was talking to Craig John.

Yes, looking back that makes much more sense. For what it's worth moving the submersive around is child's play compared to the ultra13.
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post #4754 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Wow, that's heavy ! Tell me about your experiences please. What subs did you listen to (don't tell me SVS lol !) before buying the submersives ? Thanks.

My first sub was a Mirage. Coincidentally, it was a "dual-opposed" design like the Submersive. Great little sub. Then I moved up to an Earthquake Supernova MKV-15. From that I moved to a pair of JL Audio F112's. Finally, I upgraded to a pair of Submersives, and then I added a third.

I've also heard the Velodyne DD-18, the Martin Logan Descent, the Klipsch THX Ultra2 system, some M&K subs, several Hsu subs, and several SVS subs.

The Submersives are definitely the finest subs I've ever heard. If you go back a few pages in this thread, you'll see my in-room graphs, and my listening impressions with the new HP 2,400 watt amps. The original amps were excellent... the new HP amps and the new DSP program take the Submersives to new and unprecedented levels.

The new amps are not available in a 240 volt configuration. If you're interested in a Submersive, and you live in a country with 240 volts AC, you'll only be able to get the previous 1,000 watt amp. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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post #4755 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 04:13 PM
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Come on guys..... Lets all move on, people can and will have opinions.

I own a Submersive now and have heard it on a few occasions before purchasing, I've also owned many SVS's, not the Ultra though but I have heard it... It sounded surprisingly better then the older ones I owned, certainly not what I would consider a Cr@ppy sub.... IMO it was pretty darn good ~ for ported. I also still own the JL F112 which the Submersive has replaced, the F112 is still an awesome little beast of a sub..... I could drag that F112 and drop it on top of the submersive and do a comparo but I know they are very close in SQ with the F112 being a bit more punchy and the Submersive being a touch smoother, more well rounded. But after EQ they are pretty much identical.... Both are every bit top quality products !!!!!

There is a huge difference between the 2 though..... With the Submersive, my Lamp I keep on top of my sub doesn't feel the need to vibrate all over the place and fall off.... knocking and scratching the woodwork or the paint on the walls due to gravity....

Lets keep in mind that most of the differences one would hear may be the room interaction and improper setup (lack of EQ), or the pref between sealed and ported. With ported the frontwave and backwave of the driver and the port contributing to the sound around box tuning. With Sealed you don't hear this, you only hear "the sound" coming from the driver as, the frontwave and backwave are separated....

I can understand the issue with ported - I just don't like them as much as sealed.... There is a reason I copied Marks design with my DIY subs - the Submersives design is just that good... I just used different and bigger drivers...
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post #4756 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 05:12 PM
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Prefer Clarke's "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." craig john's three disappear ... like magic.
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post #4757 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

I'm not affiliated with the JL, I just happen to really like their gear so I do take offense that you would think I am a dealer. For me, SVS simply sounded muddy in comparison to the JL. I'm not partial to JL, there are other brands that I feel sound way better, like the Paradigm Studio and Sig subs. For music, they sounded much better.

Who are you to say that I am clueless ? Perhaps you are clueless. I reached a conclusion just like everyone else does and you call me clueless ? Bah, whatever.

Have you actually had any of the subs you mentioned in your own room? What are you using now?

Your comments would suggest that you haven't heard all of the above in a proper setup.
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post #4758 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
Have you actually had any of the subs you mentioned in your own room? What are you using now?

Your comments would suggest that you haven't heard all of the above in a proper setup.
My first 'real' sub was a SVS PB10, and I was quite wowed by it for a year or more. Then I went to a AVS 'meet' at Peter Chang's house here in Berkeley, where Mark Seaton was there and 4 SubM's were set up in action. The next day or so I ordered one, and you can only imagine change I experienced. (And I've recently done the HP upgrade.)
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post #4759 of 9619 Old 11-26-2010, 11:42 PM
 
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Please give excuse my ignorance but what is a HP upgrade ? As you probably have guessed I haven't read through all 159 pages. The more I read up on the Submersives, the more I like. I WISH I could listen to one. But I live in the UK. So if I make my decision to buy one it would be sound unheard.
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post #4760 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 06:23 AM
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The HP upgrade is swapping out the "old" (original) 1000W amp module for the "new" 2400W HP amp module, done in the field by the customer. I'm gearing up to do one myself. I *think* the cost is in the neighborhood of USD $400, factoring in sending your original amp back to the factory.

As of right now, the HP (High Power) amp is land-locked to the U.S. due to the 110V fixed voltage...Mark is working on a global-friendly solution 2011, methinks.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
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post #4761 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by amillians View Post
The HP upgrade is swapping out the "old" (original) 1000W amp module for the "new" 2400W HP amp module, done in the field by the customer. I'm gearing up to do one myself. I *think* the cost is in the neighborhood of USD $400, factoring in sending your original amp back to the factory.

As of right now, the HP (High Power) amp is land-locked to the U.S. due to the 110V fixed voltage...Mark is working on a global-friendly solution 2011, methinks.

That is an upgrade for the old submersive, the new submersive only comes with the HP amps now...
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post #4762 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 08:27 AM
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The new submersive in countries that use 110V all come with the 2400W amp. Everywhere else still gets the multi voltage 1000W amp.

I believe there are several submersives in the UK in forum members homes. If your really interested in hearing one you might contact mark and he might be able to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post
That is an upgrade for the old submersive, the new submersive only comes with the HP amps now...

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post #4763 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

A much simpler and easier solution is the system I use:
xtz Room Analyzer:
http://www.xtz.se/uk/products/mearur.../room-analyzer
It doesn't use an SPL meter; it has it's own calibrated mic. There is now a US Retailer of the system, and the price is currently about $250.
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/sho...-analyzer.html
xtz is an all-in-one-box solution that is orders of magnitude less time consuming to use than either of the above systems. All you need is a computer with a USB port. You can be up and running within minutes and everything is pre-calibrated so no fiddling with soundcards, mic preamps, or test tones. Each measurement takes about 5 seconds, (30 seconds if you do 3-position measurements). The graphs I posted recently were xtz graphs. Here is the AVS "Official" thread on it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&highlight=xtz


The only other "consumer" level system that I'm aware of is the one Mark linked to a few pages back:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...90&ctab=1#Tabs
It's a little more expensive than xtz, but it looks like it might be a little more extensive in the tests it can run. It's not available yet, but it should be soon.

Thanks Craig, I think I will go with one of those. ^^^

Looks like the xtz Room Analyzer is OOS at the moment.
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post #4764 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 12:53 PM
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I got a quickie. Was there something before the Dayton OmniMic Precision Measurement System? Isn't Dayton a Parts Express brand?

And Mark, do you expect this to be a good product? I suppose I should just wait for a few reviews on the product after its released.
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post #4765 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

That is an upgrade for the old submersive, the new submersive only comes with the HP amps now...

On Mark's site he lists
"SubMersive Subwoofer (the original!) -"
That is the one with the 1000 watt amp so people can still get that one as well at the $1,995 + shipping price. I may not be %100 correct, but I think this will not be a limited thing.

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post #4766 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

On Mark's site he lists
"SubMersive Subwoofer (the original!) -"
That is the one with the 1000 watt amp so people can still get that one as well at the $1,995 + shipping price. I may not be %100 correct, but I think this will not be a limited thing.

Mike, thanks for the correction..... I guess he's offering both levels then and thats a good thing, I certainly didn't need the HP for my puny bedroom but I couldn't pass up the initial price offering....
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If you trip the amber light on the sub and it cuts out, what does that mean. Do I have to reset anything or will it just go away on it's own with some rest.

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post #4768 of 9619 Old 11-27-2010, 10:06 PM
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I unpluged the amp and waited a few secs, then pluged it back in. Now I get the steady green light. I should be good to go. I played some music and I felt the cone moving so it is working for sure.

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post #4769 of 9619 Old 11-28-2010, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

If you trip the amber light on the sub and it cuts out, what does that mean. Do I have to reset anything or will it just go away on it's own with some rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I unpluged the amp and waited a few secs, then pluged it back in. Now I get the steady green light. I should be good to go. I played some music and I felt the cone moving so it is working for sure.

Hi Mike,

Was that after testing with VLF sine waves? I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things and/or things got especially hot, particularly if the amp came back to life just fine after a power cycle. Like with most electronics, first step should be to reboot. You should be fine. E-mail me directly if you see the issue come up again.

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"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #4770 of 9619 Old 11-28-2010, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi Mike,

Was that after testing with VLF sine waves? I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things and/or things got especially hot, particularly if the amp came back to life just fine after a power cycle. Like with most electronics, first step should be to reboot. You should be fine. E-mail me directly if you see the issue come up again.

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there. I guess I was worried because the lights were blinking four times and not three. I let it like that for awhile. Even after an hour it was still blinking like that. Then I said what the heck, it could not hurt, so I unplugged it. Then a few seconds later I plugged it back in. Now I am getting that nice steady green light. I should also say that I watched this movie right after I got finished watching TF2. So maybe it was just too much for too long.

Is it safe to say that your subs are all or nothing? That is, if I get a steady green light that I am %100 OK and not 87.3% OK? Or in other words, it either works or does not? I guess I reached limit in my room.

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