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post #451 of 9692 Old 01-09-2008, 06:52 AM
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...but as we know, Mr. Seaton is a sick, sick individual.
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post #452 of 9692 Old 01-09-2008, 06:57 AM
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Sweet. The problem is I do I have the room but it would place it to close too my Sony tube TV. It affects the picture to much. If I ever get a flat screen.... well who knows. My room is about 1000cf as well. One SubMersive is pretty fine in this room. On WOTW I can really have a good time without even making the sub work hard . In that size room, 107-109dB is pretty impressive with this sub. But that is not even close to the max output of this sub in my room. That is why I don't post numbers. I can. I have a few from WOTW but they would much lower then people are used to seeing. Then people would assume(we all know what happens then) that it is the limit of the sub. When in fact, I am pushing the limit of the room.
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post #453 of 9692 Old 01-18-2008, 01:15 PM
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MARK et al

A quick basic question.

Acknowledging that varying rooms have varying gain . . .

IN GENERAL
What effect do multiple subs have on OUTPUT and EXTENSION
Is there a Rule O' Thumb?

RE: PLACEMENT vis ART S's ROW O' SUBMERSIVES

How does the effect of that Line O' Subs differ from the concept
of One At Each Wall Midpoint or the concept of Stacking / Co-Locating

Are they all in same phase? or is it push pull?

I ask in the service of learning if ONE BIG SUB is better than TWO
LESS BIG SUBS.

thanks in advance

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post #454 of 9692 Old 01-18-2008, 01:45 PM
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Now for the dumb question O the day. Does Mark Seaton have a webpage where I can CLICK on PURCHASE and buy the elusive SubMersive ?


Now why no SubMersive in Craig's list O subs ? The SubMersive will rank more than well,and we know Craig's tests are very popular(just look at the views).
It is FREE publicity. Unless I missed the SubMersive test.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #455 of 9692 Old 01-18-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

Now for the dumb question O the day. Does Mark Seaton have a webpage where I can CLICK on PURCHASE and buy the elusive SubMersive ?


Now why no SubMersive in Craig's list O subs ? The SubMersive will rank more than well,and we know Craig's tests are very popular(just look at the views).
It is FREE publicity. Unless I missed the SubMersive test.

Mark has a forum.... you can ask about purchases there http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound

Craig hasnt gotten a submersive YET, he is in the process of reviewing one of marks other creations the MFW-15 from a v 1 2 3 So far it sounds like it is fairing pretty damm good considering the cost.

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post #456 of 9692 Old 01-18-2008, 03:46 PM
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sandbagger,

Thanks for the link.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #457 of 9692 Old 01-18-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:


Craig hasnt gotten a submersive YET

hmmm...I wonder why
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post #458 of 9692 Old 01-18-2008, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB View Post

hmmm...I wonder why

I hope that was there for a reason

Mark has had a hard time just getting the ones sold produced/installed let alone a loaner. Craig will get one at some point, and then the there will be numbers to go with all the customers that are VERY happy with the sub.

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post #459 of 9692 Old 01-19-2008, 02:10 AM
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Well I was in for the Submersive too in 2007 but no reactions on email and so on so I changed my mind in 2008 and went to ED.
The submersive looks wonderful but if I can't get one it does not make a sense to wait
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post #460 of 9692 Old 01-19-2008, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB View Post

hmmm...I wonder why

In simplest terms, I've been extremely busy with way too many projects. Many of those projects are products for AV123 which many are waiting for. With many waiting those get top priority. There was no reason to draw more attention to the SubMersive as I was wrestling with some supplier issues in getting parts done right. As the first subwoofers from AV123 are starting to ship, I will start working through the shelved projects of my own, including streamlining production & delivery of the SubMersive and my powered main speaker designs. Many here have heard Art Sonneborn's system with 4 SubMersives, and there have been reports here and on my forum from plenty of other owners, most of whom have dedicated theaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subbass View Post

Well I was in for the Submersive too in 2007 but no reactions on email and so on so I changed my mind in 2008 and went to ED.
The submersive looks wonderful but if I can't get one it does not make a sense to wait

I do appologize for the lack of response. Your comment is a great example of one of the reasons why I haven't gotten a pair of SubMersives to Craig. SubMersives have been shipping through the year. A good percentage have gone to installers who do not frequent the forums. 2008 should see some welcome changes in resources and availability.

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post #461 of 9692 Old 01-19-2008, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

SubMersives have been shipping through the year.

I was lucky enough to get one last year, although I don't know whether it was luck or Mark's capitulation just to get me to quit harpping at him every couple of days In any event, even tho this is my first sub, I am truly amazed every time I watch a movie. This sub really puts you in the middle of the action. We watched 3:10 to Yuma last night and I jumped when the train roared into the station. I heard it and felt it. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember real steam engines and I can tell you the rumble was very real. And, I only have one SubMersive. Thanks Mark.
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post #462 of 9692 Old 01-19-2008, 05:05 AM
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I thought I felt a rumble .....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

I hope that was there for a reason

Mark has had a hard time just getting the ones sold produced/installed let alone a loaner. Craig will get one at some point, and then the there will be numbers to go with all the customers that are VERY happy with the sub.

From what Craig says it does not have anything to do with waiting on a loaner. Craig buys the subwoofers just like we do. He might get a better price since he is a volume buyer. Craig just has not bought one yet. He might be waiting for Mark to catch up before ordering one.
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post #464 of 9692 Old 03-07-2008, 07:30 PM
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I just ordered two of these badboys to replace my twin martin logan decents. Im ready to rumble!!
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post #465 of 9692 Old 03-07-2008, 08:29 PM
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Sweet. Glad to hear this. I heard the Decent before. IMHO, the SubMersive is in another league. Not that the ML is bad because it is not. The SubMersive is on another plane. Please post your thoughts on them when you get them. I will celebrate my one year install this weekend. I sarted to get interested in this sub arround Aug 2006. In Jan 2007 went to CES and met Mark. There we finalized the deal. In Mar 2008 I had the sub in my room. That time line is not meant to be a complaint. For most of that time I was busy saving up for this. I just wanted to indicate that I am glad I waited and took my time and got one of the best subs out there. I have been in heaven ever since. I have no regrets at all.

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post #466 of 9692 Old 03-07-2008, 09:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

I hope that was there for a reason

Mark has had a hard time just getting the ones sold produced/installed let alone a loaner. Craig will get one at some point, and then the there will be numbers to go with all the customers that are VERY happy with the sub.

Kevin ... I just saw this, so apologies for the 7 week delay. Mark knows I would purchase the sub, and that I did not ask for a loaner. Heck, remember the GTG last September ? I would not allow MLS to pay for that ... independence means just that ... the dinner for 50, the open bar, and the cigar lounge were all my treat.

Mark Seaton has a different approach with the SUBmersive - many, as he stated, go to private installers. Others go to custom installs for which Mark handles the installation, including a full system calibration.

One thing is for certain ... forget all the "sick individual" stuff about Mark Seaton - what I have learned from a couple months with a pair of MFW-15's is the man knows how to make a subwoofer sound great.

He is designing a couple subs for my new Venture, "Tweak City Audio", and I am anxious to hear what he can do in the 2 price points - neither of which he has done yet.

Think $159 and $1299 subs from Mark, and you will get the idea.
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post #467 of 9692 Old 03-09-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post

I just ordered two of these badboys to replace my twin martin logan decents. Im ready to rumble!!

In a 2300 cu.ft. room you most certainly will be shakin' things up!

The Descent is/was a very nice sounding subwoofer, albeit lower on the output scale by modern or more recent standards/expectations. I look forward to your impressions, and doubly so if you have BobL out to re-optimize the system.

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post #468 of 9692 Old 03-09-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I will celebrate my one year install this weekend. ... I have no regrets at all.

Thanks Mike,

When I saw your similar post over on my forum I thought it was ironic that this was pretty close to the date I left SD' and established Seaton Sound. This month brings about the 3rd birthday of Seaton Sound. At long last, many things such as better availability of products and the introduction of some full range speakers will finally come to be this year. As Craig's post hints at further, I have tons on my plate at the moment, but many more of those tasks are very close or approaching deliverable products, which is a good thing for everyone.


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post #469 of 9692 Old 03-10-2008, 04:24 AM
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Can't wait to see what is coming up in the future. Getting your main speakers in more HT would certainly be a good thing. Busy busy busy. Good for us, tough on you. But I think that what ever you bring out, it will be top flight. Just wish I could squeeze a bit more in my room.

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post #470 of 9692 Old 03-10-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Can't wait to see what is coming up in the future. Getting your main speakers in more HT would certainly be a good thing. Busy busy busy. Good for us, tough on you. But I think that what ever you bring out, it will be top flight. Just wish I could squeeze a bit more in my room.

Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking.

Where are you in PA. I'm in East Norriton (KOP-Norristown area).
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post #471 of 9692 Old 03-10-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonnyE View Post

Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking.

Where are you in PA. I'm in East Norriton (KOP-Norristown area).

I am just NE of Philly(churchville). The Terraform sub just look scary good.
I think you want to really try and make space for them.
For those that are lazy(me included) and don't want to look for the info on this sub, here are a few links
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/p...ost?id=2438650
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/p...ost?id=2376606
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/p...ost?id=2381183

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post #472 of 9692 Old 03-10-2008, 04:51 PM
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[quote=LonnyE;13341156]Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking. QUOTE]

HEY, Wait your turn, "Cataylysts" take time to build umm,,, sorry it slipped out
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post #473 of 9692 Old 03-10-2008, 06:48 PM
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[quote=funlvr1965;13345667]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LonnyE View Post

Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking. QUOTE]

HEY, Wait your turn, "Cataylysts" take time to build umm,,, sorry it slipped out

I think Mark is talented enough to multitask

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post #474 of 9692 Old 03-25-2008, 06:14 PM
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Hi guys,

I'm considering if I could use the Submersive for music.
I'll be using it with some DIY prosound speakers (basically top Beyma drivers).

Would like to enquire if the submersive design is push-pull or just plain 2 drivers in a box in normal operation?

Can i confirm that the articulation of the 40-120Hz area is very good? Noticeably better than stuff like MFW-15 since the MFW-15 got quite a good review too? (i have heard stuff like PB13U which shd be around that ballpark). Not just plain SPL response but fidelity.

The submersive looks very well engineered. The amp is actually the same DSP-1000 model found in Danley's lineup. I'll be using for music solely so the only thingy lacking is variable low-pass. I'm considering i could EQ out the midbass and mids, since the DEQ2496 has a 30dB EQ range (+/-15dB), hopefully this is enough to cut out the lower mids and all together with the natural roll off of the sub.

The other sub which i'm looking at is the Danley TH-112, which has response down to 30Hz. The fidelity shd be absolutely excellent for music esp after EQ (i'll need EQ for the room anyway, house curve and preference curves etc).
It costs usd 1880 and shipping should be around the same compared to the Submersive. This I would be buying a Yamaha P2500S or P7000S locally which costs around usd399 or usd699 too (so no shipping costs here), and it has built in variable low pass (25-120Hz). Somewhat more expensive overall.

Both should be devastating good for the money? If integrated correct I think there is little doubt that the bass would sound much better than quite a lot of high-end audiophile speakers with small little woofers. (I tend to listen quite loudly sometimes, 95-100dB)

Any comments and pointers here before I put the $$ down for either?

Mucho appreciated!
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post #475 of 9692 Old 03-28-2008, 09:39 PM
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On some of the multichannel and straight 2ch I listen to, the Submersive has performed great with music.
You can scan this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=759877&page=2
There may be some answers in there for you. It is really a great sounding sub. I think Mark would tell you that 40Hz and up, it will be hard to outdistance this sub in quantity and quality. Hopefully Mark will see this and Chime in.

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post #476 of 9692 Old 03-30-2008, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

On some of the multichannel and straight 2ch I listen to, the Submersive has performed great with music.
You can scan this thread

There may be some answers in there for you. It is really a great sounding sub. I think Mark would tell you that 40Hz and up, it will be hard to outdistance this sub in quantity and quality. Hopefully Mark will see this and Chime in.

Hello there Mike.

That freq graph looks great, stretches till 200Hz.

Unfortunately I need the sub here in Singapore. Shipping is of no problem (probably about usd500 max). Not getting a response from Mark though, I posted in his forum, PMed him and sent him all the emails for quite a while. Hopefully he will respons soon.
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post #477 of 9692 Old 03-30-2008, 07:09 AM
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I have done the same 2100. He is probably pretty swamped with things going on right now. He has responded in the past, it just takes some time.

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I have a feeling he's working on something REALLY BIG! Ill let you know how it turns out in a couple of weeks
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post #479 of 9692 Old 03-30-2008, 12:04 PM
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Hi guys,

The last 2 weeks (and most of the year thus far) has had me a bit stretched. Many things are happening that will greatly improve this situation. You can also blame funlvr1965 for part of it as I work on his Catalysts, which will be the first production level units.

The SubMersive's amplifier is fully UL & CE certified, and just requires the flip of a switch, fuse change, and different power cord to work at 230V. Shipping safely is a bigger hurdle than finding shippers. I have been working to provide me with higher confidence in that regard.

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post #480 of 9692 Old 03-30-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 View Post

Hi guys,

I'm considering if I could use the Submersive for music.
I'll be using it with some DIY prosound speakers (basically top Beyma drivers).

Would like to enquire if the submersive design is push-pull or just plain 2 drivers in a box in normal operation?

Can i confirm that the articulation of the 40-120Hz area is very good? Noticeably better than stuff like MFW-15 since the MFW-15 got quite a good review too? (i have heard stuff like PB13U which shd be around that ballpark). Not just plain SPL response but fidelity.

The submersive looks very well engineered. The amp is actually the same DSP-1000 model found in Danley's lineup. I'll be using for music solely so the only thingy lacking is variable low-pass. I'm considering i could EQ out the midbass and mids, since the DEQ2496 has a 30dB EQ range (+/-15dB), hopefully this is enough to cut out the lower mids and all together with the natural roll off of the sub.

The other sub which i'm looking at is the Danley TH-112, which has response down to 30Hz. The fidelity shd be absolutely excellent for music esp after EQ (i'll need EQ for the room anyway, house curve and preference curves etc).
It costs usd 1880 and shipping should be around the same compared to the Submersive. This I would be buying a Yamaha P2500S or P7000S locally which costs around usd399 or usd699 too (so no shipping costs here), and it has built in variable low pass (25-120Hz). Somewhat more expensive overall.

Both should be devastating good for the money? If integrated correct I think there is little doubt that the bass would sound much better than quite a lot of high-end audiophile speakers with small little woofers. (I tend to listen quite loudly sometimes, 95-100dB)

Any comments and pointers here before I put the $$ down for either?

Mucho appreciated!


Hi 2100,

I just sent you an e-mail response answering most of these questions. Sorry again for the delayed response.

For those interested in my answer to the above questions, below is a partial clip from my e-mail to 2100. He did note that his room is about 4.5 x 3.5m in the email when you read "his room" below.

Quote:


So far as the music performance, that was a primary goal in my design of the SubMersive. The same qualities that provide impressive dynamics, responsiveness and agility make movie soundtracks more dramatic and impactful. Just yesterday I pulled out my old copy of the Manger demo disk which has some highly impressive bass dynamics. By the time the CD ended I was similing broadly for reminding myself of the work I put in to make the SubMersive not just a wall-shaker, but a subwoofer capable of huge dynamics and detail right to it's limits, which are admittedly very high in music use. I know most rooms in Singapore will be smaller in scale relative to the huge dedicated theaters here in the US, making the SubMersive even more attractive. Your room is a great example, where you can expect in-room extension to 10Hz in most room locations, while having huge headroom in the upper bass frequencies.

The SubMersive is significantly smoother in response than the TH112, especially at higher frequencies, with much more very low frequency capability, in a smaller package. Your main hurdle will be finding a location for the subwoofer (this applies to any subwoofer you use, not just the SubMersive) which doesn't produce big dips in the response above 40Hz. This is the most common problem I find in small rooms, and of course the range above 40Hz is very important to subjective bass quality.

Adding to the above, the DEQ is limited in not having a low pass filter function. The SubMersive is low passed at around 200Hz to prevent un-intended signals from getting through, but you will want a low pass filter capability to use in a 2ch system. The Behringer DCX2496 has most of the functions of the DEQ, with a smaller front panel interface, but nice PC interface (serial). It will easily handle both low pass and phase adjustment which will be handy in a 2ch system.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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