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post #4771 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there. I guess I was worried because the lights were blinking four times and not three. I let it like that for awhile. Even after an hour it was still blinking like that. Then I said what the heck, it could not hurt, so I unplugged it. Then a few seconds later I plugged it back in. Now I am getting that nice steady green light. I should also say that I watched this movie right after I got finished watching TF2. So maybe it was just too much for too long.

Is it safe to say that your subs are all or nothing? That is, if I get a steady green light that I am %100 OK and not 87.3% OK? Or in other words, it either works or does not? I guess I reached limit in my room.

your amps should be fine. I'll keep any eye on that. we have been watching a lot of movies over the weekend and the pair have not broken a sweat. amps are barely warm after hard use.

Sean
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post #4772 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there. I guess I was worried because the lights were blinking four times and not three. I let it like that for awhile. Even after an hour it was still blinking like that. Then I said what the heck, it could not hurt, so I unplugged it. Then a few seconds later I plugged it back in. Now I am getting that nice steady green light. I should also say that I watched this movie right after I got finished watching TF2. So maybe it was just too much for too long.

Is it safe to say that your subs are all or nothing? That is, if I get a steady green light that I am %100 OK and not 87.3% OK? I guess I reached limit in my room.

Most electronics fail at an all or nothing state. There is range of circuit and status monitoring internal to the HP amplifiers intended to protect the amp rather than letting things run away and chance failure. If the sub turns back on with a green power light (PWR) you should be ready to rock. Get back to enjoying and if you see this again shoot us an e-mail or give a call and we'll sleuth it out.

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post #4773 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Most electronics fail at an all or nothing state. There is range of circuit and status monitoring internal to the HP amplifiers intended to protect the amp rather than letting things run away and chance failure. If the sub turns back on with a green power light (PWR) you should be ready to rock. Get back to enjoying and if you see this again shoot us an e-mail or give a call and we'll sleuth it out.

Thanks Mark and Sean. You have no idea how much better I feel. I will probably take it easy though on the next few movies. Just for MY piece of mind. In my small room, do you think that maybe prog 2 is simply adding too much bass down low in my small room? It looks like there is a 4-6db difference between the two modes at 16hz in my room. Again, I am running my sub in program 2 now.

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post #4774 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi Mike,

Was that after testing with VLF sine waves? I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things and/or things got especially hot, particularly if the amp came back to life just fine after a power cycle. Like with most electronics, first step should be to reboot. You should be fine. E-mail me directly if you see the issue come up again.

I suspect the bolded entry above is the culprit. In Mike's smallish room and with the corner loading and nearfield placement, I had to turn the sub down to almost it's lowest level, (IIRC, it was at -34 on the level control), and even at that, the subwoofer trim was still at -12 after running the Audyssey calibration. I really doubt it was overdiven, either at the inputs, or within the amp or drivers.

Mike wasn't sure about the wiring in his room and whether there were multiple circuits, so I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with everything on one circuit. That would be the Submersive HP, both Bryston power amps, the pre/pro, Oppo BD player, and other sources. Mike did you also have your air conditioner/purifier on at the same time? If so, I'm surprised you didn't trip a circuit breaker.

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post #4775 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 08:32 AM
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Hey Craig, Yea, that conditioner was on. I know I have some stuff plugged into it. Craig, It took me a while to post what I did above what you just posted. Any thoughts about that? I guess I am just lucky about not tripping the breaker. So if it was the following "I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things" what should I do. Just not play it as loud? Again, would switching the program mode help at all. Thanks for all the feedback guys. It has helped to lower my blood presure.

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post #4776 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Trial and error as well. I used either The 5.1 Audio Toolkit that Mark provides or Avia. One of the options on those disks will play a signal out of a front and same-side rear speaker simultaneously. While sitting in the LP adjust the rear distance until the image from that signal appears to come from the center of that wall. You will need to switch between the setup screen on your prepro to adjust the distance and the playing of the DVD. Adjust by the .2 foot increments until the image is where you want it and repeat for the other side of the room. Works like a champ and will really improve the whole envelopment phenomenon. It is certainly possible that the distance Audyssey comes up with will be correct but it has not been for my room and my speakers. IIRC I changed the distance by .4 feet for both speakers. fWIW I used to try to accomplish the wall centering trick by increasing the volume of the rear speakers but this is a lot better way.

I'd like to say I came up with that idea but I stole it from Mark Seaton. (who else).

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

I then checked the L/C phantom image... perfect, right between the L and C speakers. The R/C was the same... dead on, so I knew the CC distance was correct. I then checked the R/RS. This phantom image was much closer to the R speaker, and no where near in the middle of the two. At this point, I decided to check the levels of the speakers before I proceeded any further.

The 5.1 Audio Toolkit has precisely recorded 75 dB test tones. I played them and found that the front 3 speakers were all set 2 to 3 dB lower than the surrounds. So, before I went any further, I reset the front speaker levels to equal the surrounds at 75 dB all the way around. (I then went back and verified that this didn't change anything from the previous distance setting checks on the front speakers... it hadn't.)

Going back to the R/RS, I again checked the phantom image with the pink noise. It was even worse now with the higher R speaker level setting. I increased the distance of the RS by 0.6 ft. This moved the phantom image to the exact middle between the R and RS speakers. Amazing!

I then did the same for the L/LS and RS/RRS and LS/LRS. The only one I didn't need to adjust was the RRS. All the others needed 0.2 to 0.4 ft. adjustments to center their phantom images.

Not being sure I could trust my ears on these phantom images, I decided to listen to something to verify that these changes were beneficial. I put in King Kong, starting with the "Finding the Footprint" chapter. At the beginning of this scene, the rescue party is walking through the forest and there are all kind of bugs flying around in the surrounds. These new settings added a new dimension to the depth and immersion, (and creepiness), of the surround field. A few moments later, rocks start falling into the canyon from overhead. The rocks clearly sounded like they were falling from overhead. Then the brontosaurs star stampeding through the canyon. As they hit the canyon walls and run into each other, the sound moves throughout the speakers. Yet it stays as one massive, immersive soundfield. Previously, there was always a bit of a disconnect between the front soundstage and the surrounds... almost like there was a hole between them. With the new settings the integration of the surround field with the front stage was seamless, increasing the size of the whole presentation. This was the best presentation of this scene I've ever heard on my system.

I should mention that I always use Neural THX Cinema mode for watching movies. This extracts rear surround channels for the R and L Rear Surround speakers. I really like Neural THX Cinema mode for movies. I also often use Neural THX Music mode for music.

Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

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post #4777 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Hey Craig, Yea, that conditioner was on. I know I have some stuff plugged into it. Craig, It took me a while to post what I did above what you just posted. Any thoughts about that? I guess I am just lucky about not tripping the breaker. So if it was the following "I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things" what should I do. Just not play it as loud? Again, would switching the program mode help at all. Thanks for all the feedback guys. It has helped to lower my blood presure.

Hi Mike,

I doubt Prog 2 is the problem. It's more likely that everything was drawing current at the same time. However, if you want to try going back to Prog 1, you just need to flip the power off, depress the PGM SEL button and turn the power back on. You may need some help moving the sub out far enough to get at the switches.

The likely better solution is to plug some of your equipment into different circuits. Is that possible?

Craig

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post #4778 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

I then checked the L/C phantom image... perfect, right between the L and C speakers. The R/C was the same... dead on, so I knew the CC distance was correct. I then checked the R/RS. This phantom image was much closer to the R speaker, and no where near in the middle of the two. At this point, I decided to check the levels of the speakers before I proceeded any further.

The 5.1 Audio Toolkit has precisely recorded 75 dB test tones. I played them and found that the front 3 speakers were all set 2 to 3 dB lower than the surrounds. So, before I went any further, I reset the front speaker levels to equal the surrounds at 75 dB all the way around. (I then went back and verified that this didn't change anything from the previous distance setting checks on the front speakers... it hadn't.)

Going back to the R/RS, I again checked the phantom image with the pink noise. It was even worse now with the higher R speaker level setting. I increased the distance of the RS by 0.6 ft. This moved the phantom image to the exact middle between the R and RS speakers. Amazing!

I then did the same for the L/LS and RS/RRS and LS/LRS. The only one I didn't need to adjust was the RRS. All the others needed 0.2 to 0.4 ft. adjustments to center their phantom images.

Not being sure I could trust my ears on these phantom images, I decided to listen to something to verify that these changes were beneficial. I put in King Kong, starting with the "Finding the Footprint" chapter. At the beginning of this scene, the rescue party is walking through the forest and there are all kind of bugs flying around in the surrounds. These new settings added a new dimension to the depth and immersion, (and creepiness), of the surround field. A few moments later, rocks start falling into the canyon from overhead. The rocks clearly sounded like they were falling from overhead. Then the brontosaurs star stampeding through the canyon. As they hit the canyon walls and run into each other, the sound moves throughout the speakers. Yet it stays as one massive, immersive soundfield. Previously, there was always a bit of a disconnect between the front soundstage and the surrounds... almost like there was a hole between them. With the new settings the integration of the surround field with the front stage was seamless, increasing the size of the whole presentation. This was the best presentation of this scene I've ever heard on my system.

I should mention that I always use Neural THX Cinema mode for watching movies. This extracts rear surround channels for the R and L Rear Surround speakers. I really like Neural THX Cinema mode for movies. I also often use Neural THX Music mode for music.

Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

Wow Craig, that is some great information for fine tuning!! I will have to try that one in my system too. As you know, I have a huge hole between my fronts and sides.

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post #4779 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi Mike,

I doubt Prog 2 is the problem. It's more likely that everything was drawing current at the same time. However, if you want to try going back to Prog 1, you just need to flip the power off, depress the PGM SEL button and turn the power back on. You may need some help moving the sub out far enough to get at the switches.

The likely better solution is to plug some of your equipment into different circuits. Is that possible?

Craig

I think the way my room is wired, it is all on one circurt. I would have to my electrician maybe run some more for that room. I would probably just see if I could one or two more in that room. Now, I am not an expert. Would that be just adding two more 15 amp outlets? If not how do I add more "circuts" to my room. Sorry if that is a bassic question.

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post #4780 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there.

Hi Mike,

I suspect it was the source.

WOTW is the widow maker of soundtracks, bar none. The scene you referred to comes soon after a series of the most brutal LFE tracks I know of and looks like this:


I'm not familiar with the protection circuitry on the SM, but if it's ever gonna kick in, WOTW is a likely reason.

BTW, I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long while. Your consistently great attitude and enthusiasm are a model for every sub-maniac. Keep up the good work and next time show proper respect to the WOTW serial sub killer.

Bosso
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post #4781 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 12:09 PM
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BTW, I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long while. Your consistently great attitude and enthusiasm are a model for every sub-maniac.

Bosso


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Don't sweat it mike, I'm sure it's fine.
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post #4782 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I think the way my room is wired, it is all on one circurt. I would have to my electrician maybe run some more for that room. I would probably just see if I could one or two more in that room. Now, I am not an expert. Would that be just adding two more 15 amp outlets? If not how do I add more "circuts" to my room. Sorry if that is a bassic question.

First you need to see if there is room in your houses load center for more circuits.

Carl

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post #4783 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 12:45 PM
 
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Let me ask you guys a question. I've never heard anyone say that the Submersive sounds boomy. Only tight and very well defined. I've done my fair share of research and I try hard to find fault with products, just the way I am so I tend to scrutinize more than average. So obviously this is great news that basically everyone says the same thing about the sound quality. My question is, is this partly (or mainly) to do with the amp ? Because I see there is massive power controlling the cone. So I imagine the amp has a lot to do with the control. Then the cabinet being as heavy as it is. Am I on the right track ? I realize the sound of the room is important but just want to understand how the Submersive is able to maintain these musical qualities.
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post #4784 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 04:37 PM
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Thanks Bosso and Warp. I do what I can with the limited knowledge I have. I guess I was overzealous since every other movie, including Star Trek and TF2 Blu Ray movies were fine at the same level(-10). I Know now for WOTW, which is not BR, I need to back off a bit. And I did check and I am on one circuit in that room. But I have a feeling that the way my room and house are setup, running another one would be a pain in the butt. What scared me was that I was seeing the yellow light flash four times, not three. On Mark's site he said that three flashes typically means overheating and four might mean damage. That's why I was so worried. I have not played any movies yet, but like I said, the light is green now and I can feel movement when I listen to music so I think I am OK. Hopefully I will have time to watch a movie this week and I will see what happens. Maybe something like The Dark Knight at a reasonable level. We shall see.

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post #4785 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 04:48 PM
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Mike,

The fact that everything is on one circuit is somewhat limiting. If you can find a way to at least plug your air purifier into another circuit, you'll free up some electrical circuit "headroom". Is there an outlet in your hallway outside your room that you could plug the air purifier into? Also, make sure there is nothing else on that circuit that would be using current... Is the bathroom on that same circuit? Do you have anything plugged in in there that could be using current? A rechargeable toothbrush, or shaver or anything like that?

Bottom line... find everything on that circuit and limit it's current use. That will free up current to supply your HT.

Craig

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post #4786 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Mike,

The fact that everything is on one circuit is somewhat limiting. If you can find a way to at least plug your air purifier into another circuit, you'll free up some electrical circuit "headroom". Is there an outlet in your hallway outside your room that you could plug the air purifier into? Also, make sure there is nothing else on that circuit that would be using current... Is the bathroom on that same circuit? Do you have anything plugged in in there that could be using current? A rechargeable toothbrush, or shaver or anything like that?

Bottom line... find everything on that circuit and limit it's current use. That will free up current to supply your HT.

Craig

When you say air purifier I am assuming you mean that tall fan that I have. That was not even on when I was playing the movie. The Bryston 4b-ST specs say this
1. Idle Current 186W
2. Stereo 8 Ohms (250W ea.) 1200W
3. Stereo 4 Ohms (400W ea.) 1920W
4. Bridged 8 Ohms (800W) 1944W
5. Max. Wattage 1944W
6. Max. Heat Dissipation 1144W / 3904 Btu/Hr
The 5b-ST does not list the specs but I can tell you that the 4b-ST really puts out 300x2 watts and the 5b-ST puts out 150x3. The bathroom may be on the same circuit and I only have an electric shaver that is plugged into one plug. I have a hair dryer also in the bathroom but I think that is on another circuit. The house is really wired strangely. Would cutting my amps down to one help? You know, maybe a 200x5 or 250x5 amp?

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post #4787 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Let me ask you guys a question. I've never heard anyone say that the Submersive sounds boomy. Only tight and very well defined. I realize the sound of the room is important but just want to understand how the Submersive is able to maintain these musical qualities.

Keep in mind that when you are running high end subs that are tried and true tested performers, anyone stating the subs are "boomy" is generally a product of the the room response and lack of EQ.
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post #4788 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 05:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

When you say air purifier I am assuming you mean that tall fan that I have. That was not even on when I was playing the movie. The Bryston 4b-ST specs say this
1. Idle Current 186W
2. Stereo 8 Ohms (250W ea.) 1200W
3. Stereo 4 Ohms (400W ea.) 1920W
4. Bridged 8 Ohms (800W) 1944W
5. Max. Wattage 1944W
6. Max. Heat Dissipation 1144W / 3904 Btu/Hr
The 5b-ST does not list the specs but I can tell you that the 4b-ST really puts out 300x2 watts and the 5b-ST puts out 150x3. The bathroom may be on the same circuit and I only have an electric shaver that is plugged into one plug. I have a hair dryer also in the bathroom but I think that is on another circuit. The house is really wired strangely. Would cutting my amps down to one help? You know, maybe a 200x5 or 250x5 amp?

Mike - You have one heck of a great system. The small amount of money to get an electrician to your place and add the needed circuits to your room will be a very cost effective upgrade.

We had two 20 amp circuits put in here for about $300 complete. It will likely be more in your area, but still ... LOOK at the $$$$ you have tied up in it.
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post #4789 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Mike - You have one heck of a great system. The small amount of money to get an electrician to your place and add the needed circuits to your room will be a very cost effective upgrade.

We had two 20 amp circuits put in here for about $300 complete. It will likely be more in your area, but still ... LOOK at the $$$$ you have tied up in it.

Craig,

I completely agree with you. Adding more high amperage circuits makes the most sense, and would likely be the best solution to the problem. However, Mike's room is on the 2nd floor of his parent's house. The electrical service comes in through the basement. To get more 15 or 20 amp circuits up to his room would require some fairly extensive re-wiring that would impact his parent's house, (i.e., running wiring through multiple floors with the concomitant cuts and patches in drywall, along with repainting.) Even if Mike could pay for it, I'm not sure his parents would support it.

Given the current, (PI) limitations, I think his best bet is to limit any "outside" current use and to maximise the current availability to his HT system.

Craig (John)

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post #4790 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Craig,

I completely agree with you. Adding more high amperage circuits makes the most sense, and would likely be the best solution to the problem. However, Mike's room is on the 2nd floor of his parent's house. The electrical service comes in through the basement. To get more 15 or 20 amp circuits up to his room would require some fairly extensive re-wiring that would impact his parent's house, (i.e., running wiring through multiple floors with the concomitant cuts and patches in drywall, along with repainting.) Even if Mike could pay for it, I'm not sure his parents would support it.

Given the current, (PI) limitations, I think his best bet is to limit any "outside" current use and to maximise the current availability to his HT system.

Craig (John)

That's too bad, but on the other hand, all he is missing is War of The Worlds.
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post #4791 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

You are certainly developing a handy set of tricks for fine-tuning. I'm interested in seeing how my Pro'd system does with this test. I did, however, lower the surrounds 1dB and rear surrounds by .5dB, the former to purposely emphasize the LCR more and the latter to .. well the rears are directly behind me and were just too loud.

Jeff
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post #4792 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Craig,

I completely agree with you. Adding more high amperage circuits makes the most sense, and would likely be the best solution to the problem. However, Mike's room is on the 2nd floor of his parent's house. The electrical service comes in through the basement. To get more 15 or 20 amp circuits up to his room would require some fairly extensive re-wiring that would impact his parent's house, (i.e., running wiring through multiple floors with the concomitant cuts and patches in drywall, along with repainting.) Even if Mike could pay for it, I'm not sure his parents would support it.

Given the current, (PI) limitations, I think his best bet is to limit any "outside" current use and to maximise the current availability to his HT system.

Craig (John)

Some homes have sub-panels. (Mine has one on the second floor (and two in the basement) making adding additional circuits very easy.) Mike should investigate.

Jeff
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post #4793 of 9540 Old 11-28-2010, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

I then checked the L/C phantom image... perfect, right between the L and C speakers. The R/C was the same... dead on, so I knew the CC distance was correct. I then checked the R/RS. This phantom image was much closer to the R speaker, and no where near in the middle of the two. At this point, I decided to check the levels of the speakers before I proceeded any further.

The 5.1 Audio Toolkit has precisely recorded 75 dB test tones. I played them and found that the front 3 speakers were all set 2 to 3 dB lower than the surrounds. So, before I went any further, I reset the front speaker levels to equal the surrounds at 75 dB all the way around. (I then went back and verified that this didn't change anything from the previous distance setting checks on the front speakers... it hadn't.)

Going back to the R/RS, I again checked the phantom image with the pink noise. It was even worse now with the higher R speaker level setting. I increased the distance of the RS by 0.6 ft. This moved the phantom image to the exact middle between the R and RS speakers. Amazing!

I then did the same for the L/LS and RS/RRS and LS/LRS. The only one I didn't need to adjust was the RRS. All the others needed 0.2 to 0.4 ft. adjustments to center their phantom images.

Not being sure I could trust my ears on these phantom images, I decided to listen to something to verify that these changes were beneficial. I put in King Kong, starting with the "Finding the Footprint" chapter. At the beginning of this scene, the rescue party is walking through the forest and there are all kind of bugs flying around in the surrounds. These new settings added a new dimension to the depth and immersion, (and creepiness), of the surround field. A few moments later, rocks start falling into the canyon from overhead. The rocks clearly sounded like they were falling from overhead. Then the brontosaurs star stampeding through the canyon. As they hit the canyon walls and run into each other, the sound moves throughout the speakers. Yet it stays as one massive, immersive soundfield. Previously, there was always a bit of a disconnect between the front soundstage and the surrounds... almost like there was a hole between them. With the new settings the integration of the surround field with the front stage was seamless, increasing the size of the whole presentation. This was the best presentation of this scene I've ever heard on my system.

I should mention that I always use Neural THX Cinema mode for watching movies. This extracts rear surround channels for the R and L Rear Surround speakers. I really like Neural THX Cinema mode for movies. I also often use Neural THX Music mode for music.

Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

Wow, thats great to hear Craig. I agree you that disc and your hears and a db meter are a great compliment to any arsenal. As marks has pointed out to me, those pink noise tracks aren't on DVE or AVIA or any other I have seen but they clearly work and as you can now attest, very easy to hear the effect of a distance change.

Tips that I can tell from my limited experiments with audessy on about 10 systems (all midrange to low end) and maybe a 100 runs and from marks q&a.

Audessy will sometimes get these wrong consistenly (rare) or sometimes spuradically. I've even seen sporadic stuff when you are trying really hard to get ideal conditions. Kids gone, ac off, pets outside, phones off, etc... rerun again and it nails it. who knows...

Tips:
+/- 0.5 db in error is not as a big too big a deal and not as detrimental to SQ as the distance settings but fairly common. If you can't hear a distance I tend to trust audyssey. so dial in the DISTANCES FIRST.
+/- 6 inches on distance can cause a large imaging change
rear image seems to often be too far back in many of my audessy runs.
Use a SPDIF Source to playback these test discs rather than HDMI because many of the OUR receivers GUI's wont let us bring up the GUI Settings and let you listen to HDMI audio but they will with SPDIF Audio.
Having all your favorite test stuff living on a diskless server and playing back with something like XBMC on demand is handy for the tweaker (and of course the music lover).
I've watched mark do setup at least 3 times now and besides using his tape measure and trusty measuring tools. He spent a lot of time listening to those types of tones and playing with distances but a TON of time moving speakers around a little here and dialing in some toe there... As many of us know. This is the slow and painful part. because you change something so you now you want to check if messed up something else of obsoleted some other setting.
Mark has generally said for 5.1 systems where the surrounds are more rear versus side he aims them to cross maybe 3 feet in front of the listening position.
There are some good test tracks for enveloping sound fields on the Goldline disk but my favorite is one called the "Jungle Demo" its from the AVS Forum Demo Disc #3 (all Samples demo disc). This demo is from THX and has some great computer generated spacial imaging in THX EX.

When you have the distances dialed in better the images including the difficult rear image is much more cohesive. On Slow pans when the distances are not optimal you will hear more of jump from front to rear instead of smooth pan.

It sounds like you noticed the same.

That last track from Venice underground is f^&*in room shaking and worth checking out on the goldline disc, if you haven't.

Sean
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post #4794 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 04:58 AM
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I have to be specific all of a sudden. CraigSub, Craig John is right. To run the cables would be a royal pain in the butt. Here is the thing though, with the original 1000 watt amp I never had that "problem" at all(even with WOTW). I could crank the system and never caused the amp to shut down. Maybe, I should think about going back to that amp. If not, then for certain movies like WOTW and probably the Incredible Hulk and maybe Cloverfield, I just need to back off a bit. Not a big deal because I am sure they will still sound great. The only way to really limit the current would be not to keep my lights on in the room. Sometimes I watch with them on but with them all off, that may help.

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post #4795 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

I didn't receive that disc with my SubMersive. I would love to try this on my system. Does Avia have these tones?



Mark,

Any chance you can still send me one of those test discs?
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post #4796 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 07:35 AM
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What else is on that disc? I never got it with my purchase.
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post #4797 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 07:37 AM
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I didn't receive that disc with my SubMersive. I would love to try this on my system. Does Avia have these tones?



Mark,

Any chance you can still send me one of those test discs?

No those specific tones are not on avia or dve or any other test/setup disc I know of.

Sean
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post #4798 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 08:51 AM
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What else is on that disc? I never got it with my purchase.

Is this the Goldline disc that they are selling for $110?

Jeff
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post #4799 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 09:14 AM
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Is this the Goldline disc that they are selling for $110?

Jeff

Yep thats the one

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/250238.html

Sean
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post #4800 of 9540 Old 11-29-2010, 10:26 AM
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Marks forum has the following posted:

Quote:
The following are currently available products:
All orders include 5.1 Audio Toolkit DVD. Limit one per customer.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3364736

I added the emphasis. I'm not sure why some Submersive owners are saying they didn't get one, but I suggest you contact Seaton Sound.

Craig

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