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post #6931 of 9919 Old 07-04-2012, 02:32 PM
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^^^

lol... biggrin.gif yea, true dat... never ceases to amaze me what some will "believe", even though it's completely irrational...

those of us on the lunatic fringe of subwoofage*, otoh, are entirely rational... tongue.gif

* and heck, i'm not really even there with my measly dual hp's... although my friends seem to think i am... smile.gif

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post #6932 of 9919 Old 07-06-2012, 06:26 PM
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So for those running more than 1 of a SubMersive HP, Captivator or similar high-powered subwoofer/amp combo...

I think it's safe to presume that you all have fully fleshed out home theater set-ups. Is it common knowledge/sense to have separate 20A circuits installed? I'm planning on running 2 SubMersive HPs, a 5-channel 400WPC power amplifier + 5 speakers, receiver, LCD TV, etc... and i'm guessing at the minimum, I should have two independent 20a circuits -- 1 for each socket of an outlet. I'm planning on having the power amp on one circuit, and the 2 SubM's and all other electronics on another circuit. I listen typically at -15 on the receiver and all the way down to -8, and I run my subs about 10dB hot. Does this seem like a safe bet?

Also, i'm just not sure whether i'm getting a good deal on the installation. I invited an electrician over to scope it out and the lines would have to be run through a conduit outside of the house all the way to the circuit box, which is about a 100 ft. distance and so 500 ft. of wire, so he says. For 2 circuits, I was quoted at about around $700. The guy seemed pretty honest and even suggested getting quotes from other electricians, or even buying and providing the wire myself to save a little money. Does this quote seem fair?

Not really willing to DIY because the thought of tearing up drywall frightens me. Opinions and personal experiences please?
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post #6933 of 9919 Old 07-06-2012, 06:56 PM
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I have 3 20amp circuits. One for each of my sub amps and the other powers everything else (4311ci, Cinenova Grande, SMS-1, etc). I've never had any problems tripping breakers even at reference levels. cool.gif
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post #6934 of 9919 Old 07-06-2012, 08:45 PM
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I'm using 2, 20 amp plugins for my room.
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post #6935 of 9919 Old 07-06-2012, 09:20 PM
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I am using three 120V 20 Amp & one 240V 45 Amp circuits in my temp HT.


--Carl
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post #6936 of 9919 Old 07-06-2012, 09:32 PM
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When I had my dual Captivators I was using a ep4000 to power them both, and just had a 15 amp line shared with a small freezer and dorm fridge, lights in a utility room, and I never once tripped the breaker. Currently I have a Submersive on that same line and the other Submersive on a 30 amp line that is shared with a ton of things, seemingly most of the rooms above me. I haven't tripped them with the Submersives either.

Keep in mind I have had these subs at insanely loud levels too. I don't understand it, I think I have some kind of breaker magic going on down here.
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post #6937 of 9919 Old 07-08-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopaddiction View Post

So for those running more than 1 of a SubMersive HP, Captivator or similar high-powered subwoofer/amp combo...
I think it's safe to presume that you all have fully fleshed out home theater set-ups. Is it common knowledge/sense to have separate 20A circuits installed? I'm planning on running 2 SubMersive HPs, a 5-channel 400WPC power amplifier + 5 speakers, receiver, LCD TV, etc... and i'm guessing at the minimum, I should have two independent 20a circuits -- 1 for each socket of an outlet. I'm planning on having the power amp on one circuit, and the 2 SubM's and all other electronics on another circuit. I listen typically at -15 on the receiver and all the way down to -8, and I run my subs about 10dB hot. Does this seem like a safe bet?
Also, i'm just not sure whether i'm getting a good deal on the installation. I invited an electrician over to scope it out and the lines would have to be run through a conduit outside of the house all the way to the circuit box, which is about a 100 ft. distance and so 500 ft. of wire, so he says. For 2 circuits, I was quoted at about around $700. The guy seemed pretty honest and even suggested getting quotes from other electricians, or even buying and providing the wire myself to save a little money. Does this quote seem fair?
Not really willing to DIY because the thought of tearing up drywall frightens me. Opinions and personal experiences please?

Sounds like about $250 in material if you were buying on your own. I'm sure he gest a better price.

In the LA area I would assume electricians charge $75 - $100 an hour? Seems like a fair deal but hard to tell
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post #6938 of 9919 Old 07-09-2012, 01:59 PM
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Has anyone tried their Submersive(s) in a down and up firing postition?
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post #6939 of 9919 Old 07-09-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Has anyone tried their Submersive(s) in a down and up firing postition?

Sure thing Bill. I get my wife and kids to each hold a Submersive 2 feet off the floor. It has done wonders for their upper body strength biggrin.gif

Seriously, how do you propose to hold the Submersives down and up firing? That woud probably create a much shorter distance to the bottom boundary (floor), and the top boundary (ceiling).

I know you have a method in mind and it will be good to hear some discussion of such placement. smile.gif
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post #6940 of 9919 Old 07-11-2012, 05:32 PM
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I presently have a Outlaw plus and EX. I have been planing on eventually buying a pair of seaton subs. My question is, would one sub be better than my pair of outlaws?
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post #6941 of 9919 Old 07-11-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I presently have a Outlaw plus and EX. I have been planing on eventually buying a pair of seaton subs. My question is, would one sub be better than my pair of outlaws?
One SubM HP will have more output and deeper extension than your Outlaws. However, it may not sound "better." With two subs, you can place them to even out the response over more seats. If you've done this, and you can't find a single placement for the SubM that has equivalent response, it may not sound as good as the two Outlaws. Some of that can be addressed with room correction/EQ, but placement of the sub and the listening position will be the first things to address.

Craig

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post #6942 of 9919 Old 07-11-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

One SubM HP will have more output and deeper extension than your Outlaws. However, it may not sound "better." With two subs, you can place them to even out the response over more seats. If you've done this, and you can't find a single placement for the SubM that has equivalent response, it may not sound as good as the two Outlaws. Some of that can be addressed with room correction/EQ, but placement of the sub and the listening position will be the first things to address.
Craig
Thanks, the placement would be near placement. What if I was to keep the EX and add a subm hp? Would they play well together?
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post #6943 of 9919 Old 07-11-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Thanks, the placement would be near placement. What if I was to keep the EX and add a subm hp? Would they play well together?
It would be a chore to integrate them. The SubM has much deeper extension than the ported Outlaw. The Outlaw would just hold the SubM back. I would probably not even bother.

Craig

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post #6944 of 9919 Old 07-11-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Thanks, the placement would be near placement. What if I was to keep the EX and add a subm hp? Would they play well together?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


It would be a chore to integrate them. The SubM has much deeper extension than the ported Outlaw. The Outlaw would just hold the SubM back. I would probably not even bother.
Craig

I currently have 2 FTW21in drivers powered by 2 EP4000 bridged integrated with a pair of EX's. They sound incredible together in my room, and the outlaws don't run out of steam they way I have them setup.

 

It can be done, but you need the right equipment to dial them in. However, I probably wouldn't recommend 1 SubM and 1 EX. That would be more difficult to get right since you would essentially want to level match them to get a smooth FR...the EX would definitely run out of steam. However, 2 SubMs to get a smooth FR, and then add in the EX nearfield would definitely be an option. You wouldn't have to run the EX as loud, and just use it for the tactile shaking.

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post #6945 of 9919 Old 07-12-2012, 02:24 AM
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One question regarding placement of the SubM: Did you experience any differences in the SubM's sound between side firing placement and front firing? In other words: Does it make a difference between one driver facing towards the listening position and both drivers facing sideways?
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post #6946 of 9919 Old 07-13-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustcap View Post

One question regarding placement of the SubM: Did you experience any differences in the SubM's sound between side firing placement and front firing? In other words: Does it make a difference between one driver facing towards the listening position and both drivers facing sideways?

With the pair of opposed drivers, the virtual or effective acoustic location of the subwoofer is in the center of the box between the two woofers. As such, rotating the 17.5" x 23" footprint makes a very minor change in effective position. So long as you leave ~3" in front of the driver or grill, you can orient the SubMersive any way you like in a corner. With frequencies below 80Hz, there really isn't much of a front or rear projection of sound for conventional subwoofers. The bass radiates in all directions equally from a driver (or port at the frequencies the port operates).

Mark Seaton
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post #6947 of 9919 Old 07-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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not sure if you guys check out Mark's site but he posted some pics of submersives added to a full
Rockport speaker system set-up -
that is some heavy artililery
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Rockport-speaker-system-with-3-SubMersive-HPs-5947063

15400 Watts of Seaton Power -Quad SubMersived
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post #6948 of 9919 Old 07-27-2012, 12:08 PM
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Yep saw that. It is one top notch system with some really high end gear.

It ain't easy being green.
My System
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post #6949 of 9919 Old 07-28-2012, 07:48 PM
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Hi Guys,

I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).

The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).

Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?

Thanks in advance for your help
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post #6950 of 9919 Old 07-28-2012, 08:29 PM
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Mark posted awhile back that the feet need to stay on to keep the sub sealed, I was going to take the feet off too until I read that. Mine is 25 1/16" inches tall with the feet on, on carpet.
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post #6951 of 9919 Old 07-28-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,
I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).
The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).
Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?
Thanks in advance for your help

I measured mine just now on the woofer side from top to bottom - it came out to 24.75" tall.

And I think it should be just fine with a 45-50 lb center channel on it - it's pretty solidly built. biggrin.gif
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post #6952 of 9919 Old 07-28-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,
I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).
The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).
Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?
Thanks in advance for your help

In my case, I have the 1st gen SubM's & the feet are attached differently; however I think that the Dims are the same (24 3/4in) without the feet. I am using them with my Cat 12C on top of them. (>100 lbs)

If I was you, I would turn the sub on it's side (17.5) and space your CLR-3000 up high enough to clear the PowerCon & the XLR audio input connectors. You could place something in the space between
the two speakers to hide the cables from view. Due to the speakers design, there is no vibration & the speaker is built like a tank, so no problem with weight.


--Carl
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post #6953 of 9919 Old 07-28-2012, 11:09 PM
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Logicator,

You may also want to consider the newer SubMersive F2 design. It's 20'' in height when laying on its side.

Here's a quote from Mark that may be useful:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Seaton 
the walls are all very well braced, and they should be fine to place a speaker on with an appropriate rubber pad under them similar to what I use on the top of the stands. We can cut and supply a suitable pad if desired. Had the samples been done in time, a pair would have served as the stands for the rear CAT-8C's at our demo in Indy a few weeks ago.

With a 20" or 35.75" height, suitability as a stand will depend on the specific room and seating, but rear surrounds certainly make sense in balancing and distributing subs in the room as I've repeatedly found general front and rear locations to be very workable and useful at efficiently covering the entire subwoofer range.
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post #6954 of 9919 Old 07-28-2012, 11:47 PM
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Thanks for your quick responses!

I checked the wall-mount I used for my TV (monoprice 4174: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082801&p_id=4174&seq=1&format=2) and I might be able to adjust the rails screwed on the back of the TV by a couple of inches. Not guaranteed to work (since the instructions recommend placing them towards the center of the TV), but worth a try smile.gif
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post #6955 of 9919 Old 07-29-2012, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,

I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).

The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).

Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?

Thanks in advance for your help

others have commented on the rest, but i'll add that you could likely put a 500 pound center channel on top of the subm without issue... smile.gif

remains to be seen what the response will be put in the center of the wall though...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #6956 of 9919 Old 07-29-2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

others have commented on the rest, but i'll add that you could likely put a 500 pound center channel on top of the subm without issue... smile.gif
remains to be seen what the response will be put in the center of the wall though...

smile.gif

I sent you a PM.
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post #6957 of 9919 Old 07-30-2012, 05:11 AM
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Instead of messing around with the height adjustment why not mount the entire Monoprice mount a little higher. Once the TV is off the mount the hard work is done smile.gif
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post #6958 of 9919 Old 07-30-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

Instead of messing around with the height adjustment why not mount the entire Monoprice mount a little higher. Once the TV is off the mount the hard work is done smile.gif

Emphatically seconded. The simple options are either to use a SubMersive F2 on side, or to use a standard SubMersive HP and raise the TV Mount. Assuming it's mounted into wood studs, shifting 4 lag bolts up makes for an easy option. There's no need for others to measure for you though, as you can check the exact dimension drawings here. The only issue with the F2 is that the flat surface on the side is limited to 9.75" flat depth due to the front and rear chamfers on the 15" enclosure depth. With the bracing and construction of the two enclosures, there is no concern for the weight of any speaker you are likely to place on top.

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post #6959 of 9919 Old 08-01-2012, 01:12 PM
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Thanks Mark. Makes perfect sense.

I don't see F2's pricing and availability on your forum?
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post #6960 of 9919 Old 08-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Thanks Mark. Makes perfect sense.

I don't see F2's pricing and availability on your forum?

We finally received the custom packing materials allowing for safe and cost effective shipping individual F2s. F2's are actually a few $ less to ship than an original due to the longer narrower package which help offset the premium. Pricing and availability will be added to the main thread on our forum in the next few days. If you find the F2 thread on our forum, I answered some related questions in post #23.

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