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#1 ·
Just had Mark Seaton over to install my 2 SubMersives, it being late and all I will keep my initial post on this MONSTER of a sub short. My family room turned home theater room is a difficult room that opens up into appx 800 sq feet of kitchen and dining room. Just 1 was able to handle the room by itself, 2 just abused the area.





Thanks Mark for re-confirming why I love this hobby and am glad there are people like you out there making such ridiculous products like the SubMersive!
 
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#8,121 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by craig john



Hi Mark,


If I may, I would like to elaborate here a little bit... (OK, well, maybe more than a "little bit!" )


First, the SMS-1 is a great device for helping to optimize subwoofer placement in the room prior to any EQ or calibration. To use it for this, just turn off the speakers and play only the sub. Disable all EQ in the SMS-1 and set everything else to baseline. Then place the mic at the primary LP and move the subwoofer around room while watching the FR on the OSD. Place the sub in the spot that measures the flattest without any EQ. This will make it much easier to EQ the system later, as you will need less cuts or boost to get a perfectly flat response.


Second, when setting levels, there are 4 different level settings that need to be accounted for:


1. Master Volume Control

2. Subwoofer and Speaker Trims

3. SMS-1 Level

4. Subwoofer Level

These will all interact and they all need to be taken into account prior to doing any calibrations or EQ. To set the levels, and then EQ the system with the SMS-1, I suggest the following progression:


1. Start by setting all trims in the receiver to 0. (We'll come back later and re-set these for calibration purposes, but for now, set them to 0.)


2. Set ALL speakers to Small AND all crossover frequencies to 80 Hz.


Reasons:


The SMS-1 expects the use of Bass Management, which is what you engage when you set the speakers to Small. Therefore, to get proper results from the SMS-1, you need to set the speakers to "Small" and engage BM.


The SMS-1 can *only* EQ the subwoofer channel. It can NOT EQ the speakers. This is very important to realize. Any filters set above the crossover point will have little effect on the subwoofer output and minimal effect on the overall response. Limiting the range of the subwoofer channel by using a low crossover point, limits the range available for the SMS-1 to EQ. IOW, if you set a 60 Hz crossover, the SMS-1's EQ will only be effective to 60 Hz. Therefore, set the crossover as high as possible without localization of the subwoofer, which is almost always 80 Hz.


Page 42 of your manual, (see below), describes the Bass Management scenarios for your receiver. You can either use a "global" crossover for all "Small" speakers and the sub, or your receiver allows for different crossover frequency settings for the subwoofer and the speakers. The subwoofer crossover is really just an LPF, whereas the global crossover is an LPF and an HPF at the same frequency. IMO, you should use the same frequency for the HPF on the speakers and the LPF on the sub. Therefore, I recommend you use the global crossover setting of 80 Hz, for all speakers and the subwoofer. Also, set the "Stereo" mode to "Speakers = Small". This will engage Bass Management for 2-channel sources and make your subwoofer active for 2-channel content. This is *very* important for optimal EQ with the SMS-1, as described below.


The Phase Control on the SMS-1 is centered at 80 Hz. While it is better to use the receiver's distance setting to effect the response around the crossover point, if you do want to use the SMS-1's Phase Control, it will only be effective with an 80 Hz crossover.



3. Next, on the SMS-1, select Preset: Setup and set all EQ bands to 0. (A default reset is the easiest way to do this. See Page 41 of the SMS-1 User Manual, linked below.)


4. Set the SMS-1 Level to +15.


Reason:


This is the setting for "Unity Gain" in the SMS-1. The SMS-1 is not an amplifier. You don't want to use the SMS-1 to add gain to the signal. You want it to add or reduce the gain of various frequencies *relative* to the average level, but you don't want it to increase the overall average level. "Unity Gain" means that there is no gain across the device, and the output signal is the same level as the input signal.)



5. Set the Subwoofer Gain Level at it's lowest setting. (We'll turn it up later.)


6. Turn on the left front speaker test tone. Adjust the receiver's MVC so the left front speaker reads 75 dB* at the primary LP. This MVC setting will be the "Reference Level" setting from this point forward.** Remember it.


7. Without changing the MVC setting, shut off the left front speaker and turn on the subwoofer test tone. Turn up the gain on the subwoofer until the SPL meter at the primary LP reads 75 dB. The SMS-1 should also read an "average" level of about 75 dB. (Once you've set this, you should never need to adjust the subwoofer's gain setting again, unless you move the sub.)


8. Now, go back and calibrate all of the speakers to 75 dB at the primary LP. Use the receiver's trim controls as described on Page 43 & 44 of the manual. Once you've done this, your system is fully calibrated for levels, and all of the settings are optimized in each device.


9. Proceed with manual EQ with the SMS-1. Put the receiver into "Stereo" mode. EQ the sub in isolation, (with the speakers off or disconnected), getting it as flat as possible up to the rolloff point of the speaker/subwoofer crossover you set in the receiver.


(Remember that in Step 2 above, we set the "Stereo" output to engage Bass Management. Even though the speakers are off here, the bass from the L/R channels will still be re-directed to the sub.)


(Remember also that any slider bands set above the crossover point will be wasted, so move them all over into the range below the crossover point.)



10. Once the subwoofer is EQ'd, turn the subwoofer test tone back on and reset the level to 75 dB. However, this time use the SMS-1's level control to adjust the volume to 75 dB. This will reset the SMS-1 for exact Unity Gain.


11. Finally, turn the speakers back on and evaluate the response around crossover point. Adjust the subwoofer distance setting in the receiver to optimize the response around the crossover point.


12. Re-check the full system calibration to ensure all speakers and the sub are at 75 dB.


Once you've done the entire process above, you'll have a fully calibrated system with optimized frequency response of the subwoofer. I suggest you try to live with that system for a few days or weeks. Some people are so used to a bloated or "hot" subwoofer level that they feel the bass is "missing" with a true "calibrated" and Eq'd level. Nonetheless, once they re-acclimate themselves to "flat" bass response, they begin to hear detail and articulation in the bass that was previously overwhelmed by bass bloat and boom.


Having said that, some people just don't "like" a flat FR of the subwoofer, and they prefer a rising LF response. There is nothing wrong with that, and everyone is allowed their own preference. If you're one of those people, you have a few options. The first option is to just raise the MVC. This will raise the overall system output, but you should also get closer to the bass response you are looking for. (This also assumes that the rest of your system is up to the task. If it's not, don't try to get bass response at the expense of your speakers! )


If that is still not enough, and you want to raise the subwoofer's output above the rest of the system, I suggest you initiate the Submersive's DSP Program 2. This adds a rise in the response below about 40 Hz, with 3 dB added at about 20 Hz. This should add the feel and kick you are looking for. You can view the effect of Program 2 by watching the response on the SMS-1. It should look like a rising response above about 40 Hz.


If that's *still* not enough, the third option is to raise the SMS-1's level. This will take you above "Unity Gain" on the SMS-1, but *judicious* use of the control should not be problematic. 3 to 6 dB of level increase should be taken in stride by the Submersive.


If the above suggestions don't get you were you want to be, then the only hope for you is another Submersive or 2 or 3.


Craig


Footnotes from #6 above:

*The Rotel uses -30 dBFS for it's test tones, so the test tones should read 75 dB on the SPL meter, ("Slow" setting and C-weighting.)


**The Rotel appears to be a "relative" MVC, (it goes from 0, (Off), to positive numbers), as opposed to an "absolute" MVC, which sets Reference Level at 0, and negative level settings indicate the dB below Reference Level.


Manuals:
http://velodyne.com/pdf/sms-1/sms-1_manual_english.pdf
http://www.rotel.com/content/manuals/rsp1570.pdf

Att: craig john


HI, its been awhile craig since we spoke or i posted here. But i just finished custom building my HT room and started setting up my sms-1 again in my new room with my HP.

I find my sub set-up is better without the sms-1 ? Any comments...
 
#8,122 ·

Quote:
HI, its been awhile craig since we spoke or i posted here. But i just finished custom building my HT room and started setting up my sms-1 again in my new room with my HP.

I find my sub set-up is better without the sms-1 ? Any comments...
Better???? Better than what? And in what way? I can't make any kind of meaningful comment without a lot more info about your setup. Did you follow the 12-point procedure I suggested above? Can you post a screenshot of the SMS-1 response that doesn't sound good? Also, please post the Bass Management settings in your receiver.


Craig
 
#8,123 ·
I followed your instructions to the T ( 3 Times ) worked well at my old house, but not sure with the new room.

My Rotel processor is 80 across the broad.

Just seems flat sounding, no kick at all even if i crank it up. With out the sms1 i have the sub vol. up to 8.

My room is 16x26x8 1/2

Used QuiteRock ES also regular 5/8 drywall with green glue


Thx

Dave


 
#8,124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23434938


I followed your instructions to the T ( 3 Times ) worked well at my old house, but not sure with the new room.

My Rotel processor is 80 across the broad.

Just seems flat sounding, no kick at all even if i crank it up. With out the sms1 i have the sub vol. up to 8.

My room is 16x26x8 1/2

Used QuiteRock ES also regular 5/8 drywall with green glue


Thx

Dave

Well, you look great up to about 55 Hz. However, that big dip from about 55 Hz to about 80 Hz looks like the problem. It doesn't look like you changed any of the center frequencies on any of the EQ bands. I would try taking the band that is underneath 63 Hz and slide it to the right until it's directly underneath the lowest point of the dip, (maybe 65 or 66 Hz or so.) Then raise the level up and see if you can raise the dip. If that's not enough, you have one completely unused band sitting at 100 Hz. With 80 Hz crossovers, that band will do you no good at 100 Hz. Take the band at 80 Hz and move it over to help the band at 65 Hz and add some more level to the dip. Then use the band currently at 100 Hz where the band at 80 Hz was.


Try that and see if it helps. Let me know how it goes.



Craig
 
#8,125 ·
My experience with the sms-1 is that even after it's done it's auto eq you still have to go back in and tweak it to get a flatter response. Some of the guys are so good with the manual eq that they don't even bother with the auto eq.
 
#8,126 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23435617


Well, you look great up to about 55 Hz. However, that big dip from about 55 Hz to about 80 Hz looks like the problem. It doesn't look like you changed any of the center frequencies on any of the EQ bands. I would try taking the band that is underneath 63 Hz and slide it to the right until it's directly underneath the lowest point of the dip, (maybe 65 or 66 Hz or so.) Then raise the level up and see if you can raise the dip. If that's not enough, you have one completely unused band sitting at 100 Hz. With 80 Hz crossovers, that band will do you no good at 100 Hz. Take the band at 80 Hz and move it over to help the band at 65 Hz and add some more level to the dip. Then use the band currently at 100 Hz where the band at 80 Hz was.


Try that and see if it helps. Let me know how it goes.



Craig

Hi Craig, I have a simple question about the SMS and other bass equalizers. Please forgive the novice level of my question but...


How exactly do these work? Lets say you have a dip at 15hz or 60hz or whatever. When you raise the bar on the slider what does that do exactly? Does it communicate with the amp and dsp to raise the amp power at that particular level to even out the response? Or opposite on a peak of telling it to bring it down a bit? Thanks!
 
#8,127 ·
The automatic EQ function of the SMS-1 is not a very efficient means of smoothing the response, even if it is easy. Manually moving the filters around to the appropriate center frequencies to smooth the response with fewer required filters will almost always give better sounding results. One limitation with the SMS-1 is the smoothing of the frequency response display, so it's easy to not see how the multiple adjacent filters really interact with each other. Again, wider filters centered at the right frequency will give more certain results.
 
#8,129 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23436636


Hi Craig, I have a simple question about the SMS and other bass equalizers. Please forgive the novice level of my question but...


How exactly do these work? Lets say you have a dip at 15hz or 60hz or whatever. When you raise the bar on the slider what does that do exactly? Does it communicate with the amp and dsp to raise the amp power at that particular level to even out the response? Or opposite on a peak of telling it to bring it down a bit? Thanks!
In a "parametric" EQ there are 3 parameters that can be adjusted for each band: the center frequency of the filter band; the Q or "width" of the filter band; and the level of the signal within that bandwidth. Each band has the ability to boost or cut the level over the width of the filter band. Raising or lowering the "slider" raises or lowers the level of the signal at the center frequency of the slider band. That signal is them sent to the subwoofer amp for amplification.


Here is a graph that shows different "Q" or width settings of a single filter band of a parametric EQ filter. (Ignore the frequency and levels of this graph, just understand the different widths of the filters.)




A "wide" Q impacts a broad range of frequencies; a "narrow" Q affects a very narrow range of frequencies.


This "signal shaping" is intended to be the reciprocal of the room's affect on the sound. For example, if the room is reinforcing 60 Hz through a constructive addition of reflected sound with direct sound, (i.e., a peak), the EQ reduces the initial level of the signal to offset the added level of the room reinforcement and bring the overall level back down to the same level as the other frequencies. OTOH, if the room is canceling 60 Hz through destructive cancellation of reflected sound with direct sound, (i.e., a null), the EQ raises the level of that signal to bring the it back up to the same level as the other frequencies. The ultimate goal is to achieve a flat frequency response for all frequencies across the entire frequency bandwidth.


Having said that, it is much more difficult to deal with destructive cancellation than it is to deal with constructive addition. The reason for this is because, when you add energy to a cancellation, you just end up with more cancellation. You end up using amplifier power and driver excursion trying to add SPL to a frequency that is being cancelled. It doesn't work. The only good way to deal with nulls is with subwoofer placement. Moving the sub moves where the nulls occur in the room. You want to move the nulls to someplace where you're not listening to them. The other good method to deal with nulls is to use multiple subs placed around the room. Each sub will have different nulls and there is a high statistical probablity that where one sub has a null another sub will fill in and override the null. This is how displaced subs around the room smooths out the FR.


I know, I know, your next question is: "Why then would you tell motogp34 to raise the level of the one band to try to raise the "big dip" if raising the signal level just causes more cancellation?" Well, looking at his graph:




...we see that the slider at 63 Hz is all the way at the bottom of the range, or at -12 dB, as are the 50 and 40 Hz sliders. We can assume that the 50 and 40 Hz sliders are cutting big peaks at those frequencies, and the fltaness of the response through those ranges speaks to the effectiveness of those filters. However, he also has a ~12 dB trough at ~65 Hz. It certainly seems possible that the -12 dB slider at 63 Hz is causing the trough, not some room cancellation. Therefore, raising that slider *should* bring that range back to the same level as all the other frequencies. Of course, that is a wide range of frequencies, and I can't predict how a single adjustment will impact the overall response through this range. Hence why I suggested he move another filter into that range and use it to counter any other anomalies that show up.


I agree with Mark that the "Auto-EQ" on the SMS-1 is virtually useless. It doesn't adjust any of the center frequencies or Q's of any of the bands. It only "estimates" the closest band and attempts to correct the response based on that closest band. When using a parametric EQ it is *very* important to set the slider at *precisely* the problem frequency, and to adjust the width, (Q), for the *exact* width of the problem range. You can only do that with the SMS-1 using a "manual" EQ.


Craig
 
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#8,130 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23436983


The automatic EQ function of the SMS-1 is not a very efficient means of smoothing the response, even if it is easy. Manually moving the filters around to the appropriate center frequencies to smooth the response with fewer required filters will almost always give better sounding results. One limitation with the SMS-1 is the smoothing of the frequency response display, so it's easy to not see how the multiple adjacent filters really interact with each other. Again, wider filters centered at the right frequency will give more certain results.

Exactly. Auto EQ is near useless for me.
 
#8,132 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23439484


Hi, that seemed to help. Eventually i will be getting some acoustical panels to help with my room issues.

And adding another Sub. HP



You've gone from 12 dB of cut to 6 dB of boost. I would avoid the boost if possible. Move those sliders back down to 0 and see what happens. Also, use the Center Frequency and Q adjustments to move the sliders to the most appropriate center frequency and Q.


To adjust the center frequency of a band, highlight the band and press the "Select" button. A set of parameters will open below the "Vol" setting. They are "L" for Level, "F" for Frequency and "Q" for filter Width. Scroll over to "F" and hit "Select." Use the arrow keys to adjust the center frequency. You can also adjust the Level and Q from these menus.




You are using the Bass Management in your receiver, so you don't want to duplicate it in the SMS-1. Therefore, you want to shut off the crossover. To shut it off, scroll to the 1st cell in the upper left corner of the table, hit "Select" and then use the arrow keys to go the "Off" selection.


The Submersive has an internal roll off at ~7 Hz. You don't want to set a higher subsonic filter in the SMS-1 or you'll be cutting off frequencies that the Submersive can safely reproduce. To shut off the subsonic filter, scroll to the 3rd cell from the top, left of the table, hit "Select" and then scroll to the "Off" position.


Craig
 
#8,133 ·
This is a little OT, but if Mods read this, or if someone already knows how to do this, it would be a nice feature to "Share" posts like the last few in other threads, like the actual SMS thread so that others could benefit from this excellent consulting. I know I drive myself crazy sometimes wondering where I read something about something and can't remember the tread it was in...and it is almost never in the "Official" thread for the piece of gear. Just a thought but it would really be nice.
 
#8,134 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23440256


This is a little OT, but if Mods read this, or if someone already knows how to do this, it would be a nice feature to "Share" posts like the last few in other threads, like the actual SMS thread so that others could benefit from this excellent consulting. I know I drive myself crazy sometimes wondering where I read something about something and can't remember the tread it was in...and it is almost never in the "Official" thread for the piece of gear. Just a thought but it would really be nice.
  • Click the "Quote" button for the post you want to share
  • Highlight and copy the entire body of the text (Control+C)
  • Go to the thread where you want to share
  • Click "Reply"
  • Paste the text from the other thread into the Reply box (Control+V)
  • Click "Submit"



Done!
 
#8,135 ·
Thanks for your detailed teaching response Craig. It was very helpful. Mainly I was wondering how the SMS raised the spl by raising the band which therefore raises the amplifier power at that range. I have a few other questions in response.


1. So the DSP's built in the subs; Seaton, JTR or whatever. These have an eq that is "programmed" into them by Mark, Jeff, or whoever builds them?


2. I understood everything you described above about how the SMS works. Is this the best eq unit to use or would another brand be better?


3. At first I was considering dual Submersives as my sub choices. But recently I have replaced 1st place with dual Orbit Shifters. With dual F2 Submersives and dual S2 Captivators as 2nd place. Of course I have dual and quad Submersive demos in Seattle and dual Orbit Shifter demos in Sacramento. So I will get to hear and experience both. So my questions from this comes in the placement ability of these subs in relation to performance. The OS's obviously will not be as flexible as the others in placement options. What are your thoughts on these limitations? On a side note I have been spending time in the REW thread and have a UMM-6 mic on order. Also lots of time researching room treatments so I am heading down the path of good sound and not just buying crap and throughing it in a room.
 
#8,137 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23440680


Thanks for your detailed teaching response Craig. It was very helpful. Mainly I was wondering how the SMS raised the spl by raising the band which therefore raises the amplifier power at that range. I have a few other questions in response.


1. So the DSP's built in the subs; Seaton, JTR or whatever. These have an eq that is "programmed" into them by Mark, Jeff, or whoever builds them?

I (and other designers) use the DSP to optimize the anechoic (ie outdoor ground plane) frequency response of the subwoofer and the dynamic behavior at its limits to meet the goals I have for the design. This is used similarly to how some designs might use various forms of servo feedback, but a different tool with different capabilities.


Most front end electronics (receivers/preamps/EQ's) and amplifiers have some low frequency roll off due to their designs unless they specifically are DC-Coupled designs, which few modern designs are. Many receivers start rolling off in the 10Hz range with some extending into the 5Hz range. While interesting to look investigate, this is really of little interest or consequence until you have more than 2 SubMersives and unless you are very familiar and experienced in listening to the scenes with really deep extension, you're unlikely to notice much difference.
Quote:
2. I understood everything you described above about how the SMS works. Is this the best eq unit to use or would another brand be better?


3. At first I was considering dual Submersives as my sub choices. But recently I have replaced 1st place with dual Orbit Shifters. With dual F2 Submersives and dual S2 Captivators as 2nd place. Of course I have dual and quad Submersive demos in Seattle and dual Orbit Shifter demos in Sacramento. So I will get to hear and experience both. So my questions from this comes in the placement ability of these subs in relation to performance. The OS's obviously will not be as flexible as the others in placement options. What are your thoughts on these limitations? On a side note I have been spending time in the REW thread and have a UMM-6 mic on order. Also lots of time researching room treatments so I am heading down the path of good sound and not just buying crap and throughing it in a room.

The SMS-1 is the only currently available product with a fully integrated measurement and manual EQ. A MiniDSP, DCX-2496 and many other such EQ products can be more flexible, but require you have a PC based measurement system. I would strongly recommend getting running and experimenting with the REW setup. The matter of subwoofer location is way too often minimized vs excitement over the biggest baddest piece of hardware. Unfortunately two different locations can easily result in an efficiency difference more than the difference between subwoofer options...
 
#8,138 ·
I couldn't find the off selection anywhere ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23440054




You've gone from 12 dB of cut to 6 dB of boost. I would avoid the boost if possible. Move those sliders back down to 0 and see what happens. Also, use the Center Frequency and Q adjustments to move the sliders to the most appropriate center frequency and Q.


To adjust the center frequency of a band, highlight the band and press the "Select" button. A set of parameters will open below the "Vol" setting. They are "L" for Level, "F" for Frequency and "Q" for filter Width. Scroll over to "F" and hit "Select." Use the arrow keys to adjust the center frequency. You can also adjust the Level and Q from these menus.




You are using the Bass Management in your receiver, so you don't want to duplicate it in the SMS-1. Therefore, you want to shut off the crossover. To shut it off, scroll to the 1st cell in the upper left corner of the table, hit "Select" and then use the arrow keys to go the "Off" selection.


The Submersive has an internal roll off at ~7 Hz. You don't want to set a higher subsonic filter in the SMS-1 or you'll be cutting off frequencies that the Submersive can safely reproduce. To shut off the subsonic filter, scroll to the 3rd cell from the top, left of the table, hit "Select" and then scroll to the "Off" position.


Craig

I was able to turn off the xover freq & slope but u cannot turn off the sub freq & slope. Do I set the freq at 7hz and what about the slope # ?

Do I need any other changes in the preset menu ?
 
#8,140 ·
#8,141 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23440945


I couldn't find the off selection anywhere ???

I was able to turn off the xover freq & slope but u cannot turn off the sub freq & slope. Do I set the freq at 7hz and what about the slope # ?

Do I need any other changes in the preset menu ?

Sorry, I forgot that you can't shut the Subsonic Filter off. Assuming you have the most up to date firmware: http://velodyne.com/support/software-updates

...set the Subsonic Frequency to the lowest setting available, (5 Hz.) Set the slope to the shallowest slope available, (6, which means the filter is at 6 dB/octave.) These setting will ensure that the Subsonic filter has as little impact as possible.

See the graph in this document:
SMS 2point1point3 Release Notes.pdf 85k .pdf file

Craig
 

Attachments

#8,142 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23441105


So it's good to get an SMS-1 to have in your setup then. Thanks for the info Mark. Like I said I will listen to all options first and I have plenty of time as I have decided to dedicate an annual March bonus to new subs. 5-6k budget...RMK's setup (dual OS's), Bsoko (quad HP's) and another gentleman (dual F2's) gave all been so kind to offer demos.
The SMS-1 is a great device to have... if you need it. If your receiver or pre/pro has a good room correction system, you may not need it. I no longer have an SMS-1 in my system. I took it out when I upgraded my pre/pro to an Integra DHC-80.2, which has Audyssey XT32. I no longer needed the SMS-1.


That said, it's a great tool for helping with subwoofer placement BEFORE running Audyssey. The continuously running sweep and the OSD give immediate feedback for each placement. It makes evaluation of multiple placements very quick and easy. Then, if you need more correction than Audyssey, (or whatever other RC program you have), can provide, it's a great EQ also.


Craig
 
#8,143 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23444391


The SMS-1 is a great device to have... if you need it. If your receiver or pre/pro has a good room correction system, you may not need it. I no longer have an SMS-1 in my system. I took it out when I upgraded my pre/pro to an Integra DHC-80.2, which has Audyssey XT32. I no longer needed the SMS-1.


That said, it's a great tool for helping with subwoofer placement BEFORE running Audyssey. The continuously running sweep and the OSD give immediate feedback for each placement. It makes evaluation of multiple placements very quick and easy. Then, if you need more correction than Audyssey, (or whatever other RC program you have), can provide, it's a great EQ also.


Craig

My thought process is if you spend 5-6k on whatever subs then why not have a little more information coming in and a little more eq flexibility for a few hundred bucks.
 
#8,144 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23444584

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23444391


The SMS-1 is a great device to have... if you need it. If your receiver or pre/pro has a good room correction system, you may not need it. I no longer have an SMS-1 in my system. I took it out when I upgraded my pre/pro to an Integra DHC-80.2, which has Audyssey XT32. I no longer needed the SMS-1.


That said, it's a great tool for helping with subwoofer placement BEFORE running Audyssey. The continuously running sweep and the OSD give immediate feedback for each placement. It makes evaluation of multiple placements very quick and easy. Then, if you need more correction than Audyssey, (or whatever other RC program you have), can provide, it's a great EQ also.


Craig

My thought process is if you spend 5-6k on whatever subs then why not have a little more information coming in and a little more eq flexibility for a few hundred bucks.

I think you missed Mark and Craig's point. Mark is telling you to invest your time (and some money) into an REW setup as that will aid in picking the optimal sub location based on real-time measurement info. Craig is basically saying the same thing with the SMS-1. Since you've already decided on getting a mic and learning REW (from your posts in the REW USB mic thread), wait until you actually have the subs and measure in room response before deciding you can afford to spend a couple hundred bucks on a device that you or may not need. The SMS-1 may be of no value to you and that's possibly the equivalent value of a couple bass traps or broadband absorbers that definitely will benefit you!
 
#8,145 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic  /t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8130#post_23445137


I think you missed Mark and Craig's point. Mark is telling you to invest your time (and some money) into an REW setup as that will aid in picking the optimal sub location based on real-time measurement info. Craig is basically saying the same thing with the SMS-1. Since you've already decided on getting a mic and learning REW (from your posts in the REW USB mic thread), wait until you actually have the subs and measure in room response before deciding you can afford to spend a couple hundred bucks on a device that you or may not need. The SMS-1 may be of no value to you and that's possibly the equivalent value of a couple bass traps or broadband absorbers that definitely will benefit you!

I didn't miss the point. I just like more options available. But we will see when the mic comes....someday.


I am asking questions in numerous threads that I may learn. Perhaps a mini dsp and REW will be all I ever need!
 
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