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post #9751 of 9761 Old 01-17-2015, 12:36 AM
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I just listed my two Seaton Submersive HP's for sale in the classifieds. Here is a link for anyone interested. Thanks!

Dual Seaton Submersive HP Subwoofers

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post #9752 of 9761 Old 01-17-2015, 11:32 PM
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What are you going to replace them with Yosh?
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post #9753 of 9761 Old 01-18-2015, 06:59 AM
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What are you going to replace them with Yosh?
I am back and forth on that question. I went through the entire Orbit Shifter thread again and am heavily considering getting a pair of Orbit Shifter LFU's. I'm not even close to 100% decided yet. I kind of told myself that I would make a decision based upon if and how fast they sold. It's certainly not because my Sumbersives are not awesome... they certainly are! I just caught the upgrade bug again. Hmmm, as I said in another thread, ugrade my not even be the right word. Maybe a change in focus from chasing ULF to maximizing the over 20 Hz. experience.


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post #9754 of 9761 Old 01-18-2015, 07:49 AM
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So my theater is about 16' wide by 28' long with 9' ceilings. It is open via doorway in the back to another room that is around 11' wide by 18' long with 9' ceilings. This is a basement with concrete floors. So all together we are talking almost 6000 cubic feet. I can not seal off the theater side of the basement. It's also a difficult room because the walls are concrete (covered by wood paneling). I have the room extremely well treated with traps as well (most corner/floor/ceiling bass traps and the whole back wall are 6" of knauf 6PCF ecose and wall absorbers are 4" of knauf 6PCF ecose spaced about 2" off wall mixed with diffusers). I am just concerned that I am going to pack the room with a million sealed subs before I get the ULF tactile feel it in your chest sensation I am after. This is the truly amazing thing about Mark Seaton. He is taking the time to answer a lot of my questions via email conversation about my room and concerns.

Even then, I think that maybe I am the problem. I just don't know what I want to do yet and what I want to prioritize (below or above 20 HZ) Measurements may be useful, but I'm really not after a number (and I am limited with where I can move the subs anyway). I'm after a tactile feel in the room. I want that feel it in you chest experience. I don't want to add shakers - I want it to be the subs. Anyhow, I appreciate any thoughts. I have learned a lot from reading your thoughts over the years and really appreciate having a forum like this. I'm the first to admit I am far from an expert in this area! I am attaching some crappy cell phone pics for reference.

Dual Seaton Submersive HP Subwoofers
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post #9755 of 9761 Old 01-18-2015, 08:30 AM
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Hi Yosh,

I went through exactly the same thought process as you did. In fact I put my submersives HP for sale sometime ago for exactly the same asking price as yours.

Here is the thread that I started and got feedbacks

Captivator 2400 x 2 or something else?

I ultimately came to the conclusion that the OS LFU just took up too much space and after talking to Mark,

I decided that my upgrade path would consist of adding master/slave Submersives HPi...

4 is better than 2.

Interestingly enough, our room size looks like it is very similar.
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post #9756 of 9761 Old 01-18-2015, 08:34 AM
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one more thing.

It looks like you are running definitive technology all around.

I was running M&Ks S150P powered monitors and I thought I was happy until I heard JTRs

I heard the JTR 228HT and the JTR212HTs... I can honestly tell you that I have heard a bunch of "commercial speakers" and none of them compared to the JTRs (I would imagine the Seaton Cats would fall into that category)

If you get the opportunity and as you mentioned you wanted the "slam" factor, I would encourage you (if you haven't already) to find someone locally (might be a challenge) so you can audition the JTRs.

That might change your focus on your next upgrade =)
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post #9757 of 9761 Old 01-18-2015, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point1 View Post
Hi Yosh,

I went through exactly the same thought process as you did. In fact I put my submersives HP for sale sometime ago for exactly the same asking price as yours.

Here is the thread that I started and got feedbacks

Captivator 2400 x 2 or something else?

I ultimately came to the conclusion that the OS LFU just took up too much space and after talking to Mark,

I decided that my upgrade path would consist of adding master/slave Submersives HPi...

4 is better than 2.

Interestingly enough, our room size looks like it is very similar.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience and linking your thread sharing your thoughts as you made the decision. Do you have all 4 Submersives set up yet? I am just curious to hear your thoughts after the additional 2.

I do wish the Submersive XL's were available now. It would make this decision much easier and would visually look better than two orbit shifter LFU's. I do think I could accomodate two orbit shifter LFU's - one under each of my surrounds. I would just have to pop the surrounds off the wall and put them on top. Two XL's would be a better visual option but still not sure. I have read that one orbit shifter lfu = 2 Cap S2's above 20 HZ. And I would imagine the new XL would be roughly on par with a Cap S2 (again all theory without it being here so please excuse this virtual comparison - sorry about this hypothesis - just going off what I know so far). Two orbit shifter LFU's would cost less than 4 Submersives. I could get them and if I am unhappy with the under 20 HZ performance, add some sealed subs (maybe an XL when it comes out) in the back and somehow just DSP it for under 20-25 HZ duties (not sure how this would be done but I am sure there is a way).

Option 2 is to just sit on my hands and wait for the XL to come out. I could start with 2 and add more down the road if I feel I need them. I really do love the dual opposed design that Mark uses to keep the cabinet so inert and vibration free - just an elegantly efficient design compared to all front firing IMO. Maybe doesn't look as cool as all front firing though but it's neat stuff.

Option 3 is to do what you did and go to 4 Submersives. This option is harder for me to do knowing that 1 Cap S2 or (again in theory) 1 XL should outperform approx 2 Submersives (again please forgive generalizations as I am sure many factors are involved and my intention here is not to offend - just share my current thought process). And if I stay on the sealed bandwagon, two Cap S2 or XL's (depending on future pricing that is not here yet) would/should be less $$ than four Submersives. The only down side to any of this is with 4 submersives I could potentially smooth the bass response even more - but according to the http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...s/multsubs.pdf (harman white paper on multiple subs) I should get 90% there with 2 subs.

Difficult decisions indeed! Thanks for sharing your thought process. All advice is welcome. And again, please forgive the comparisons - I am just trying to share where my head is at.


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post #9758 of 9761 Old 01-18-2015, 11:33 PM
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The Submersive XL roughly having 28" x 22" x 28" dimensions and at minimum 4000 watts, it should have more output than the S2. Hopefully a new amplifier by Speakerpower comes out with 10,000 watts to run 2 XL's at 5000 watts each in a slave configuration as I think it will be $4000 for one with the amp.
Either way 2 OS's will still have more output but the XL will do it in a more elegant way
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post #9759 of 9761 Old Yesterday, 01:07 AM
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Yosh,
Just some food for thought, the chest slam region is in the 40-90Hz region. In a room with concrete floors and walls, the pressure vessel gain coupled with ported subs like the OS's will easily produce that effect.

What will be harder to reproduce is the under 20Hz ULF 'the room is falling apart', "EARTHQUAKE!!!!!!" sensation, especially without shakers.

What WILL help is building a riser for the seating as the subs can shake THAT a LOT easier than a concrete floor.


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post #9760 of 9761 Old Yesterday, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTemp View Post
The Submersive XL roughly having 28" x 22" x 28" dimensions and at minimum 4000 watts, it should have more output than the S2. Hopefully a new amplifier by Speakerpower comes out with 10,000 watts to run 2 XL's at 5000 watts each in a slave configuration as I think it will be $4000 for one with the amp.
Either way 2 OS's will still have more output but the XL will do it in a more elegant way
The XL should have a larger cabinet volume than the S2 so this may help with it potentially outperforming. Otherwise they will both have dual 18's and most likely use similar 4000 watt amps. I'm betting it will be more similar than different. Especially since at the GTG's a single S1 seemed to be on par with a single SubM. It would then make sense that a SubM with dual 18's would be similar to a S2. But I do think the larger cabinet volume will be a big help with the XL. Is's so hard to make such comparisons - I hate doing it and is almost unfair without having actual head to head measurements, etc. But these are the things I am thinking about in order to make a decision on which way to go.

Dual Seaton Submersive HP Subwoofers

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post #9761 of 9761 Old Yesterday, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post
Yosh,
Just some food for thought, the chest slam region is in the 40-90Hz region. In a room with concrete floors and walls, the pressure vessel gain coupled with ported subs like the OS's will easily produce that effect.

What will be harder to reproduce is the under 20Hz ULF 'the room is falling apart', "EARTHQUAKE!!!!!!" sensation, especially without shakers.

What WILL help is building a riser for the seating as the subs can shake THAT a LOT easier than a concrete floor.


Max
Yes, this is what I keep reading. My basement has concrete walls and floor so it is not doing me any favors. Don't get me wrong, the SubM's do sound great down there. But even with my second row on a riser, I'm not getting the sensation I'm after.

Dual Seaton Submersive HP Subwoofers

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