Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 336 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10051 of 10079 Old 07-16-2015, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
From playing WOW pod emergence scene at reference on loop at 1AM while they sleep?
Jeepers - can you hear it from there!?
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post #10052 of 10079 Old 07-16-2015, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Jeepers - can you hear it from there!?
No I remember you telling one time about testing. You had looped the pod emergence scene at reference (just discovered my oppo has super easy loop feature) late at night. I remember thinking what would someone think with you standing outside with an SPL meter at 1AM lol!

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post #10053 of 10079 Old 07-16-2015, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
No I remember you telling one time about testing. You had looped the pod emergence scene at reference (just discovered my oppo has super easy loop feature) late at night. I remember thinking what would someone think with you standing outside with an SPL meter at 1AM lol!
Haha - that would be right after I installed the Submersives and with no calibration done. I just set the Submersives where I thought they'd "sound good" and let them rip. Almost demolished my house
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post #10054 of 10079 Old 07-21-2015, 11:47 AM
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Mark, I have one more question regarding the sound containment. It may be most cost effective to do a mini split cooling system for the room. It would be much easier to put the little outside unit on the side of the garage where the existing larger house unit sits. But this is the neighbor side. If I built everything properly and added much mass to that side of the house do you think the small return line from the outside to inside unit of the mini split system would negate the efforts to contain bass? I am guessing yes and that to put it on the other side it will just mean routing the pipe through the attic with another 30ft or so. I need to search if this is ok in respect to the theory of installation of these units.

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post #10055 of 10079 Old 07-31-2015, 04:22 PM
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Mark appears to have a summer sale going on Submersives....as a longtime lurker of this thread (well, and AVS, apparently this is my first post) who's been planning to purchase one or two for a few years now, this is very tempting. Verrrry tempting indeed.

Since I have fewer than five posts I can't post links but you can find the sale easily by going to his forum and clicking the News & Announcements subforum, top thread.
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post #10056 of 10079 Old 07-31-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cookiemcsnax View Post
Mark appears to have a summer sale going on Submersives....as a longtime lurker of this thread (well, and AVS, apparently this is my first post) who's been planning to purchase one or two for a few years now, this is very tempting. Verrrry tempting indeed.

Since I have fewer than five posts I can't post links but you can find the sale easily by going to his forum and clicking the News & Announcements subforum, top thread.
Thank you for choosing this thread to be your place to jump into the deeper waters of AVS with your first post.

This is definitely a good time to get a SubMersive if you have been waiting for a justification/excuse to jump off the fence. Through the duration of the sale Submersives will continue to ship out quickly after ordering. The worst I foresee might be a small gap or 2 in between scheduled deliveries and re-supplying of parts & packing making for 1-2 week lead times but currently we are shipping in 0-2 days of ordering for most finishes.
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post #10057 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM
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I'm running a Marantz 8802 and a MiniDSP DDRC 88 - wondering what settings I should have the sub on when i run Dirac?

Is there a recommended default?

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post #10058 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AidenL View Post
I'm running a Marantz 8802 and a MiniDSP DDRC 88 - wondering what settings I should have the sub on when i run Dirac?

Is there a recommended default?
It depends on how the ddrc is configured with respect to the output dip switches
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post #10059 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM
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It depends on how the ddrc is configured with respect to the output dip switches
I didn't change it from default Matt.

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post #10060 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM
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I didn't change it from default Matt.
it depends on whether you're using balanced or unbalanced as well. Are you using a balanced output?

The input sensitivity of a stock speakerpower amp is +4dBV which is ~1.58Vrms. The default for the 88a for balanced is, I think, 4Vrms so therefore you need to bring it down by 20*log(4/1.58) ~= 8dB on the amp input.

NB: you probably want a submersive owner (or the manual?) to confirm what the input sensitivity really is, you can then plug that number into the calculation above to know how much you need to attenuate at the front end of the amp.
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post #10061 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
it depends on whether you're using balanced or unbalanced as well. Are you using a balanced output?

The input sensitivity of a stock speakerpower amp is +4dBV which is ~1.58Vrms. The default for the 88a for balanced is, I think, 4Vrms so therefore you need to bring it down by 20*log(4/1.58) ~= 8dB on the amp input.

NB: you probably want a submersive owner (or the manual?) to confirm what the input sensitivity really is, you can then plug that number into the calculation above to know how much you need to attenuate at the front end of the amp.
Yeah, all balanced.

I added +10 on the Marantz !

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post #10062 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
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With the master/slave combo, I understand there is a cord from Master unit to provide amp power to slave. Does that same cord carry the source signal? Or do you stil supply source to each sub seperately via AVR sub output spit with Y-cable or AVR to minidsp, etc?

From those of you that own two of these, how low do they go in audible output? 15hz? 12hz ?
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post #10063 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
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You only need power and signal to the master, then you have a speaker level output that runs from the master to the slave. that is it

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With the master/slave combo, I understand there is a cord from Master unit to provide amp power to slave. Does that same cord carry the source signal? Or do you stil supply source to each sub seperately via AVR sub output spit with Y-cable or AVR to minidsp, etc?

From those of you that own two of these, how low do they go in audible output? 15hz? 12hz ?

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post #10064 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
With the master/slave combo, I understand there is a cord from Master unit to provide amp power to slave. Does that same cord carry the source signal? Or do you stil supply source to each sub seperately via AVR sub output spit with Y-cable or AVR to minidsp, etc?

From those of you that own two of these, how low do they go in audible output? 15hz? 12hz ?
Only cable to the slave is the speakon cable between the master and slave.

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post #10065 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM
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In my room and with the very first prototype SubM and I know mark has tweeked things for the better since we were basicly flat to 11hz and I would not call my room the best for acoustics

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From those of you that own two of these, how low do they go in audible output? 15hz? 12hz ?

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post #10066 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
With the master/slave combo, I understand there is a cord from Master unit to provide amp power to slave. Does that same cord carry the source signal? Or do you stil supply source to each sub seperately via AVR sub output spit with Y-cable or AVR to minidsp, etc?

From those of you that own two of these, how low do they go in audible output? 15hz? 12hz ?
I can't answer the second question, because other than running some tests, mine are still in a box (waiting for home theater to be finished). However, on your first question, it's one signal input on the master and that signal goes to both the master and the slave.

Best way to think about it as if instead of each being a two driver sub, it's wired like there were four drivers in the cabinet. However, they are split into two cabinets.
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post #10067 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
With the master/slave combo, I understand there is a cord from Master unit to provide amp power to slave. Does that same cord carry the source signal? Or do you stil supply source to each sub seperately via AVR sub output spit with Y-cable or AVR to minidsp, etc?
The slave is completely passive. It doesn't have an amplifier. There is no power or signal. The cable has the high voltage / high power output from the amplifier.
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post #10068 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 04:08 PM
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Exactly what I said

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The slave is completely passive. It doesn't have an amplifier. There is no power or signal. The cable has the high voltage / high power output from the amplifier.

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post #10069 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 05:24 PM
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Only cable to the slave is the speakon cable between the master and slave.
This concerns me because I have a sub in front right of room and a sub in rear corner. One is much closer. I currently use a minidsp 2x4, to add the delay needed to closer of the two subs. Is there a way to add delay to slave unit?
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post #10070 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
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NO

That is why its called a master slave, there is one amplifier to power both cabinets, thus only one EQ/delay/level to adjust.

I would just put them either in the same spot and stack them or put them in the front corners and you will be fine.

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This concerns me because I have a sub in front right of room and a sub in rear corner. One is much closer. I currently use a minidsp 2x4, to add the delay needed to closer of the two subs. Is there a way to add delay to slave unit?

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post #10071 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
This concerns me because I have a sub in front right of room and a sub in rear corner. One is much closer. I currently use a minidsp 2x4, to add the delay needed to closer of the two subs. Is there a way to add delay to slave unit?
As others have said you cant add delay to these separately, they are viewed as a single sub by all equipment. A few feet difference between the 2 subs and MLP should be inaudible delay. I have had mine in many different locations some with equal distance and others with as much as 4 feet difference. Currently i have them nearfield directly behind sofa.
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post #10072 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
With the master/slave combo, I understand there is a cord from Master unit to provide amp power to slave. Does that same cord carry the source signal? Or do you stil supply source to each sub seperately via AVR sub output spit with Y-cable or AVR to minidsp, etc?

From those of you that own two of these, how low do they go in audible output? 15hz? 12hz ?
I don't have a slave set. I have two independent 2400 HP models and I hit 8hz then it rolls off. Technically -3db point is 7hz but it's taking a dive at that point

But of course it's all room dependent. I have seen some hit 11z and dive and some to 7hz and dive. Always generally pretty dang low though for these sealed beasts.

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post #10073 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 09:21 PM
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Ok, I decided I needed to unbox my Submersive F2's, since I had only tested the master, and not the cable or slave. Since Steve Kujala and Adam Pelz (Erskine group) are going to be finishing up and then calibrating my end of next week through the end of the following week, I figured the safe thing to do is to test them a little more fully.

I decided to measure them, since there was some questions about the master/slave and how low they are flat. Again, mine are the Submersive F2's, so I can't say the performance will be exactly the same as the normal Submersive's, but I'm guessing they are close (Mark???).

These were taken with Omnimic while playing pseudo noise. This is my first weekend with Omnimic, so hopefully I've got things working right.

I know this is a little more scaled in than people normally do, but I was trying to get a good comparison of what the master and slave are doing. I had the mic at 36", the two subs back to back, but about 8' in between them. FWIW, black is the master and red is the slave.



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post #10074 of 10079 Old Yesterday, 09:57 PM
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^I am pretty sure that the F2 and HP are identical performance. But you can only balance a dime on one of them

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^I am pretty sure that the F2 and HP are identical performance. But you can only balance a dime on one of them
If one was to get two Seaton subs, can a HP and F2 be mixed (one of each) with no negative outcome? I.e. Do they play well together?

My MLP is on a couch with just enough room for one sub behind it, so a sub would be sandwiched between couch and wall. Would a F2 on its side, pointed at couch be better? Otherwise it would be HP with drivers pointed parallel to couch.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
If one was to get two Seaton subs, can a HP and F2 be mixed (one of each) with no negative outcome? I.e. Do they play well together?

My MLP is on a couch with just enough room for one sub behind it, so a sub would be sandwiched between couch and wall. Would a F2 on its side, pointed at couch be better? Otherwise it would be HP with drivers pointed parallel to couch.
Yes. Think of them as identical subs just in different form factor. As far as drivers I don't think it matters. Bass frequencies are non directional like higher frequencies from high mid to high frequencies. Even the woofers in speakers that take over after the sub crossover and before the speaker crossover sends frequencies to a CD or tweeter eminate in all directions. I don't know what frequency that waves start to "beam." But I know it's at least several hundred HZ. You could face drivers in any direction and it wouldn't matter. We just like them forward to look at I personally would just get matching F2's so in future cosmetically you have identical pair.
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post #10077 of 10079 Old Today, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
If one was to get two Seaton subs, can a HP and F2 be mixed (one of each) with no negative outcome? I.e. Do they play well together?

My MLP is on a couch with just enough room for one sub behind it, so a sub would be sandwiched between couch and wall. Would a F2 on its side, pointed at couch be better? Otherwise it would be HP with drivers pointed parallel to couch.
Acoustically and electrically they are identical, so they can be chained as master & slave as I already have 2-3 customers mixing F2 & HP style cabinets. We also have an upcoming shallow depth, single 15" module intended to fit in places where an HP or F2 can't. It is 16" x 30" on the face, and only 11" deep. We did some testing outdoors and re-confirmed they all respond and behave the same. You could just as well use an F2+ to drive 2 of these SubMersive F15-S (shallow) modules. So long as it's no more than 4 15" woofers per + amplifier, it works.

I'm not sure how long the couch is, but possibly 2 of the F15-S modules on their side would fit better? I have an unpainted first sample, but will have the final one in ~2 weeks. Is the couch in question the main listening position or along the side of the room?

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post #10078 of 10079 Old Today, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
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Acoustically and electrically they are identical, so they can be chained as master & slave as I already have 2-3 customers mixing F2 & HP style cabinets. We also have an upcoming shallow depth, single 15" module intended to fit in places where an HP or F2 can't. It is 16" x 30" on the face, and only 11" deep. We did some testing outdoors and re-confirmed they all respond and behave the same. You could just as well use an F2+ to drive 2 of these SubMersive F15-S (shallow) modules. So long as it's no more than 4 15" woofers per + amplifier, it works.

I'm not sure how long the couch is, but possibly 2 of the F15-S modules on their side would fit better? I have an unpainted first sample, but will have the final one in ~2 weeks. Is the couch in question the main listening position or along the side of the room?
It's in the MLP, middle of room against back wall.

I just thought maybe a F2 behind the couch, so both subs are facing MLP (back of couch) would be better than a HP behind couch with subs facing left and right parallel of the couch. If I'm understanding this correct, it doesn't sound like there is a benefit either way - if they both fit and there is no cosmetic preference.
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post #10079 of 10079 Old Today, 08:27 PM
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I think this is a better representation of the master/slave (F2's). This time I moved one into position away from the other speakers, marked the spot with tape, setup up the mic and then started recording. I also utilized the averaging feature in Omnimic to take a bunch of individual measurements (of each speaker) and average it, to minimize the effect of the pulsing of the pseudo noise playing (at least that's what I think the purpose is).

I then moved that master out, and moved the slave into the exact same spot, without ever touching the mic, and took a bunch of readings to average as well.

This is with 1/6 smoothing. Now, the two are almost a perfect trace of each other, where the diverge, it is typically 1-1.5 db. It looks to me like the +/- 3 db roll off is at about 13-14 hz or so.

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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Seaton Sound , Velodyne Dd 15 Digital Drive Subwoofer 15 Inch Gloss Black , Velodyne , Speaker Systems , New Pac Sni 1 Ground Loop Signal Isolator



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