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post #991 of 9562 Old 05-01-2009, 02:21 PM
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Hi all,
I need to integrate the seaton sub with a home theatre and tube amp/pre-amp. I have coming the Denon 3808ci that has the bass management in it but I need to control the sub also for music with the pre-amp and it does not have balanced out or sub outs. RCA only. What do I need to do? How do I intigrate the two?
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post #992 of 9562 Old 05-01-2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Will leaving it on all the time have any effect to the life of the amplifier?

Mine has been on since 12 August 2006 with only 30 day period in 07 when I turned it and everything else off in the house.... from my end I would have to say no.

the ampo by design, although it does not have a stand by state, when it is at idle it is almost off drawing so little power

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post #993 of 9562 Old 05-01-2009, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddey View Post

Hi all,
I need to integrate the seaton sub with a home theatre and tube amp/pre-amp. I have coming the Denon 3808ci that has the bass management in it but I need to control the sub also for music with the pre-amp and it does not have balanced out or sub outs. RCA only. What do I need to do? How do I intigrate the two?
F.Y.I-- I am going to switch the speaker wires for the mains with bananna plugs between the AVR and 2 channel tube system so that part is covered. I just wont have sub out for music. Can I somehow use the Denon AVR for sub management only for the tube amp system? Or do I need to get another high price piece of equipment for bass management for the tube amp?
These hobbies, I could of had a boat!!!!
And no money for gas to put in it!!!

Didn't you receive a XLR to RCA converter with your SubMersive?
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post #994 of 9562 Old 05-01-2009, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Didn't you receive a XLR to RCA converter with your SubMersive?

Do I need to get some sort of sub eq conroller or will the Denon do the sub controlling for the pre-amp without using anything else on the Denon?
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post #995 of 9562 Old 05-01-2009, 04:19 PM
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Do I need to get some sort of sub eq conroller or will the Denon do the sub controlling for the pre-amp without using anything else on the Denon?
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post #996 of 9562 Old 05-01-2009, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddey View Post

Can I hook up the sub like this:
Pre/amp>sub rca in>sub rca out>amplifier>mains????
and
Denon 3808ci>Denon sub out>seaton sub rca input
I have never done this before. Not having high level input like my other sub is leaving me stumped.

Mr. Seaton answered my questions. Thanks
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post #997 of 9562 Old 05-02-2009, 02:22 PM
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Hi Mark,

I sent you an e-mail on the 30th. Still no response.
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post #998 of 9562 Old 05-02-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Hi Mark,

I sent you an e-mail on the 30th. Still no response.

you are in dubai?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #999 of 9562 Old 05-02-2009, 04:20 PM
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Mark takes a few days sometimes, but he will get back to you.
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post #1000 of 9562 Old 05-02-2009, 04:29 PM
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you are in dubai?

Yeah, why?
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post #1001 of 9562 Old 05-02-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Hi Mark,

I sent you an e-mail on the 30th. Still no response.

Agree with Adam. Sometimes he takes a bit of time, but don't worry, he will get back to you.

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum .
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post #1002 of 9562 Old 05-02-2009, 08:12 PM
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Kain

I did spend 7 months in Dubai.
What a City! Everything there is build to be the best. Malls, towers etc.

Ray

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post #1003 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Kain

I did spend 7 months in Dubai.
What a City! Everything there is build to be the best. Malls, towers etc.

Ray

When did you spend 7 months in Dubai? And yeah, Dubai is a pretty interesting place considering what is being built here.
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post #1004 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vishal View Post

I used to own a Fathom F113 and had the desire for something that dug a little deeper. As you all know in this hobby, it also tends to be the case that we switch out equipment just for heck of it. I sold the F113 for a Hsu ULS-15. While I was able to accomplish my initial goal (I had flat in-room response to 5Hz) I lost much of the effortless midbass that the Fathom provided. The Hsu was also unable to match the JL's clean output at higher volumes. Consequently, the Hsu is now for sale.

I could have probably solved these issues with a second ULS-15 (and addressed any particular room issues as well) but WAF dictated a single sub solution. Enter the SubMersive.

I have been eyeing the SubMersive since its release in 2006 but went with the Fathom at that time because of the abundance of rave reviews. Hindsight is 20/20 and I now wish I had gone with the Seaton product instead.

The SubMersive is far and away the better sub in every respect except for finish and physical size. It hits harder, faster, cleaner, and with more authority than the Fathom or the Hsu. It goes very deep as well (almost flat to 6Hz in my room) and gives up nothing at higher volumes. It has tremendous midbass capabilities and is even harder to localize than the Fathom was (which was no slouch in that department). Some others have mentioned that the SubMersive's true differentiating factor is the uncanny ability to start and stop at a moment's notice. I have never before had the pleasure of such instantenous room pressurization. And the decay is just as dramatic.

Another benefit is the inherently inert box due to the opposing drivers. With both the JL and the Hsu I had to use an Auralex Subdude to limit as much physical energy as possible from being transferred to my wood floor. Without the Subdude, movie watching would result in numerous vibrations from the adjoining dining room and kitchen. However, the addition of the Subdude ruined the aesthetic appeal of the small, sealed subs. The SubMersive has no such issues. No energy is transferred to the floor and therefore its even a more effective solution than the combination of the Subdude and my other subs.

I mentioned finish as an area where the SubMersive falls behind some of the other commercial offerings. There is no denying this. While it might be rugged, it cannot be compared to the satin finishes of the JL and the Hsu. However, the fit and overall quality of components is better than the Hsu and almost on par with the excellent JL. The stepped volume control of the amp, the snug XLR connections, and the Neutrik power connector all indicate this is a very well made and very serious piece of gear.

There are certain scenes that I consider personal benchmarks for subwoofer performance. While some of these are older scenes, I have listened to them with so many different subs, I can compare them effectively. Just for information's sake, I have owned the following: Bose AM-5, Bic H-100, SVS PB12-Plus/2, JL F113, Epik Conquest (in my father's theater), Hsu ULS-15, and now the SubMersive. The rest of the gear is an Outlaw 990 preamp, Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 amp, Gallo Reference 3.1 fronts, Reference center, and Due surrounds. Room is part of an open layout but is 13' x 19' with very high sloped cathedral ceilings.

I have never heard gunshots from Open Range sound so effortless. In fact, the gunshots and the opening thunder clap made my 6'4" 250lb friend literally leap off of the couch! Additionally, the fight sequence from the Matrix has one scene where Morpheus puts his knee through the floor. This easily demonstrates the speed at which the SubMersive can add to the weight of a scene, it's absolutely amazing. Another scene I like to use is the NYC flood scene in The Day After Tomorrow. My entire room was pressurized with uncanny ease. Other scenes tested were from Master and Commander, Finding Nemo, Star Wars Ep. 2, Black Hawk Down, etc. I have still to find the upper limits of what the SubMersive can do. In fact, I am sure I will find the limits elsewhere in my system, my room, or my townhome neighbor's room before the SubMersive gives up.

I also use the SubMersive for music. I find the integration with my mains so cohesive that I have them crossed at 80Hz. I was always impressed with the JL's ability to disappear during a music track with a fast bass line. The SubMersive is even better. The same friend I mentioned earlier could not even believe the sub was on during one passage until I turned it off and the music lost all of its detailed depth.

I apologize for the long post, I never intended to go on for so long. I am truly in awe of the ability of this sub and my quest has ended (for now of course). If and when I move into a larger space, I will simply augment with another SubMersive.

I also wanted to mention that Mark Seaton is very gracious to communicate with. While he is a busy person and can sometimes take a day or two to respond, his responses were always detailed and thoughtful.

I have no hesitation in recommending the SubMersive to anyone looking for what is, in my opinion, the best commercial subwoofer on the market today.

Here is the frequency response in my room (post EQ with a BFD):


Very nice and informative review vishal, it is most appreciated.

Incidentally, your write up has helped greatly to wipe off the frustrations I had having to wait while the shipment of my multiple SubMersives and Catalysts got repeatedly delayed. I am so glad they have now shipped (many thanks Mark!)

This shipment is destined for a relatively long journey and will begin active life in Africa where I happen to live currently, so it may be a while before my own impressions would enter the threads; but, hey, the reviews currently online and being added to all the time, have, IMHO, given the SubMersive in particular - and more recently the Catalysts - a huge leap beyond any doubt about their appropriateness, effectiveness, potency, and uniqueness. So I believe I have a much better sonic life ahead of me.

My audio listening nirvana is best served rich ... with bass very well done.
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post #1005 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duwdu View Post

Very nice and informative review vishal, it is most appreciated.

Incidentally, your write up has helped greatly to wipe off the frustrations I had having to wait while the shipment of my multiple SubMersives and Catalysts got repeatedly delayed. I am so glad they have now shipped (many thanks Mark!)

This shipment is destined for a relatively long journey and will begin active life in Africa where I happen to live currently, so it may be a while before my own impressions would enter the threads; but, hey, the reviews currently online and being added to all the time, have, IMHO, given the SubMersive in particular - and more recently the Catalysts - a huge leap beyond any doubt about their appropriateness, effectiveness, potency, and uniqueness. So I believe I have a much better sonic life ahead of me.

... and ... what do I know ... that was my 100th post, yeah! (Since 2003 )

My audio listening nirvana is best served rich ... with bass very well done.
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post #1006 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

with it being an ice amp and power at idle that low, there is basicly no reason to turn it off.

The only time mine has been turned off since I got it was when I went to africa for a month long vacation. but just about everything in the house got unplugged then too.

Month long vacation to Africa huh? Seeing as the job market over here sucks...I heard Somalia is taking resumes for gun boat captains. Captain Kevin... and his midget stripper "Parrot"
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post #1007 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray
Kain

I did spend 7 months in Dubai.
What a City! Everything there is build to be the best. Malls, towers etc.

Ray

When did you spend 7 months in Dubai? And yeah, Dubai is a pretty interesting place considering what is being built here.

5 years ago.
What amaza me, was every High rise are built like a competition to each other.
It is the Las Vagas of the middle East.

Good Luck in the choice for your Sub, because the shipping would be very expensive for such a long trip arround the word.

Ray

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The more you have
The longer you live
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post #1008 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vishal View Post

I used to own a Fathom F113 and had the desire for something that dug a little deeper. As you all know in this hobby, it also tends to be the case that we switch out equipment just for heck of it. I sold the F113 for a Hsu ULS-15. While I was able to accomplish my initial goal (I had flat in-room response to 5Hz) I lost much of the effortless midbass that the Fathom provided. The Hsu was also unable to match the JL's clean output at higher volumes. Consequently, the Hsu is now for sale.

I could have probably solved these issues with a second ULS-15 (and addressed any particular room issues as well) but WAF dictated a single sub solution. Enter the SubMersive.

I have been eyeing the SubMersive since its release in 2006 but went with the Fathom at that time because of the abundance of rave reviews. Hindsight is 20/20 and I now wish I had gone with the Seaton product instead.

The SubMersive is far and away the better sub in every respect except for finish and physical size. It hits harder, faster, cleaner, and with more authority than the Fathom or the Hsu. It goes very deep as well (almost flat to 6Hz in my room) and gives up nothing at higher volumes. It has tremendous midbass capabilities and is even harder to localize than the Fathom was (which was no slouch in that department). Some others have mentioned that the SubMersive's true differentiating factor is the uncanny ability to start and stop at a moment's notice. I have never before had the pleasure of such instantenous room pressurization. And the decay is just as dramatic.

Another benefit is the inherently inert box due to the opposing drivers. With both the JL and the Hsu I had to use an Auralex Subdude to limit as much physical energy as possible from being transferred to my wood floor. Without the Subdude, movie watching would result in numerous vibrations from the adjoining dining room and kitchen. However, the addition of the Subdude ruined the aesthetic appeal of the small, sealed subs. The SubMersive has no such issues. No energy is transferred to the floor and therefore its even a more effective solution than the combination of the Subdude and my other subs.

I mentioned finish as an area where the SubMersive falls behind some of the other commercial offerings. There is no denying this. While it might be rugged, it cannot be compared to the satin finishes of the JL and the Hsu. However, the fit and overall quality of components is better than the Hsu and almost on par with the excellent JL. The stepped volume control of the amp, the snug XLR connections, and the Neutrik power connector all indicate this is a very well made and very serious piece of gear.

There are certain scenes that I consider personal benchmarks for subwoofer performance. While some of these are older scenes, I have listened to them with so many different subs, I can compare them effectively. Just for information's sake, I have owned the following: Bose AM-5, Bic H-100, SVS PB12-Plus/2, JL F113, Epik Conquest (in my father's theater), Hsu ULS-15, and now the SubMersive. The rest of the gear is an Outlaw 990 preamp, Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 amp, Gallo Reference 3.1 fronts, Reference center, and Due surrounds. Room is part of an open layout but is 13' x 19' with very high sloped cathedral ceilings.

I have never heard gunshots from Open Range sound so effortless. In fact, the gunshots and the opening thunder clap made my 6'4" 250lb friend literally leap off of the couch! Additionally, the fight sequence from the Matrix has one scene where Morpheus puts his knee through the floor. This easily demonstrates the speed at which the SubMersive can add to the weight of a scene, it's absolutely amazing. Another scene I like to use is the NYC flood scene in The Day After Tomorrow. My entire room was pressurized with uncanny ease. Other scenes tested were from Master and Commander, Finding Nemo, Star Wars Ep. 2, Black Hawk Down, etc. I have still to find the upper limits of what the SubMersive can do. In fact, I am sure I will find the limits elsewhere in my system, my room, or my townhome neighbor's room before the SubMersive gives up.

I also use the SubMersive for music. I find the integration with my mains so cohesive that I have them crossed at 80Hz. I was always impressed with the JL's ability to disappear during a music track with a fast bass line. The SubMersive is even better. The same friend I mentioned earlier could not even believe the sub was on during one passage until I turned it off and the music lost all of its detailed depth.

I apologize for the long post, I never intended to go on for so long. I am truly in awe of the ability of this sub and my quest has ended (for now of course). If and when I move into a larger space, I will simply augment with another SubMersive.

I also wanted to mention that Mark Seaton is very gracious to communicate with. While he is a busy person and can sometimes take a day or two to respond, his responses were always detailed and thoughtful.

I have no hesitation in recommending the SubMersive to anyone looking for what is, in my opinion, the best commercial subwoofer on the market today.

Here is the frequency response in my room (post EQ with a BFD):



While that is an excellent FR curve, it reminds me of the Bag End InfraSub with its 18 inch driver, and the claim of response to 8 Hz.

When the Bag End was tested it could acutally reproduce 8 Hz, but the volume was far below the threshold of audibility.

At 10 Hz the threshold of audibility is ~100 db.

If you really want us to see how your Submersive sounds at healthy volumes, please rerun the FR curve with a baseline of 105 db.

Professional testers run FR curves at 5 db intervals starting at no less than 85 db and going all the way to 115 db.

You are far from the first person to run the FR curve with the Submersive at levels that put no stress on the subwoofer.

If I was satisfied with 72 db it wouldn't take a Submersiver to satisfy me.

PS I can understand if you are reluctant to subject your Submersive to the kind of high level testing that I am looking for.
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post #1009 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 10:36 AM
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spyboy,
Here's Warren Buffet's measurements that Mark poster back in Dec. '06.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Now you see what had me so busy last week with both WarrenBuffet's and Art's subwoofers to deliver and install. I've also been wrestling with some laptop issues and I hadn't had a chance to post measurements taken in WarrenBuffet's system. Here is a before and after EQ measurement where we used the Behringer DEQ2496 that was already in the system. I did some further shaping of the response while listening, as we really didn't need the small ~4dB elevation in the 25Hz range, so the response ended with should have the low end pulled down a couple dB further. Also note this was without the main speakers playing, as we adjusted the system so the recession at 70Hz was filled in by the Rocket RS-1000s and RSC-200. Remember this room is open to the rest of the 1st floor for 2/3rds of what would be the front left wall.

Dual SubMersives in-room, before/after EQ

In checking out what happens as the level is incremented higher, here is what was observed:

Dual SubMersives in-room, increasing output

Next time, don't be so childish and just ask for what you want, instead of trying to call someone out.

David Budo
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post #1010 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 11:33 AM
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Thanks David. other than the fact that those charts use 2 Submersives, they are the start of what I am looking for.

The next part are the distortion measurements. If you have a link, I'd love to see it.

Also, as long as owners choose to display graphs taken at 72-78 db, instead of 100-105 db (or higher), I will continue to point it out.
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post #1011 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Thanks David. other than the fact that those charts use 2 Submersives, they are the start of what I am looking for.

The next part are the distortion measurements. If you have a link, I'd love to see it.

Also, as long as owners choose to display graphs taken at 72-78 db, instead of 100-105 db (or higher), I will continue to point it out.

what is it you're pointing out ?

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #1012 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 12:01 PM
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No problem spyboy. I know what you're looking for and I think you'll get all the measurments in the summer. Mark said he's going to try his best to take some groundplane readings when the weather improves. I would like to see the distortion measurments too. I expect they'll be low though.

Even though there are two subs in that graph, the room is open to the house and they still achieve 108db@10hz. With 6db co-location gain, 1 sub still gives 102db@10hz at the main seat. That's impressive to me.

David Budo
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post #1013 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

what is it you're pointing out ?


If you can't understand (my example using the Bag End doing 8 Hz), I'm not going to waste my breath trying to explain it.
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post #1014 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

If you can't understand (my example using the Bag End doing 8 Hz), I'm not going to waste my breath trying to explain it.

are you this charming in person ?


All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #1015 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

If you can't understand (my example using the Bag End doing 8 Hz), I'm not going to waste my breath trying to explain it.

Since this is a forum which is supposedly for the intention of learning, how about I lend you one of my lungs so you can waste my breath instead?
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post #1016 of 9562 Old 05-03-2009, 11:17 PM
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Mr. Seaton any chance i could come over for a listen i am in the chicagoland area ....to be more specific where are you located in Chicago? also your impression of how your sub plays on the bottom 2 octaves and below 10 cycles?


how many am i going to need to be able to play down low... 105db @ 2.5 cycles ?
any distortion figures?
for me this is only for 2 channel music it will be crossed over @ 30 cycles so i am not worried about the upper 2 octaves

can i call you?..

Lawrence
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post #1017 of 9562 Old 05-04-2009, 01:43 AM
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mistake post. Hit quote instead of edit
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post #1018 of 9562 Old 05-04-2009, 04:16 AM
 
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Spyboy ... Please take this in the humourous tone in which it is meant:

You are starting to sound like the guy who thinks he is an expert on women because he reads Playboy and Penthouse.

You are not doing anything with all these subs, other than repeating what you have read from "professional reviewers", and you are getting meaner about it, too.

Lighten up, old friend.
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post #1019 of 9562 Old 05-04-2009, 08:05 AM
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vishal, HyperM3--

Nice write-ups on your Submersive first impressions. I'm glad to see others with ridiculously overpowered subs for their townhomes such as myself.
Doesn't it put a big smile on your face when you get home and see that both of your neighbors cars are not there?
When I get home and see that, there is no question as to what I'm about to do...WOTW machines emerge at reference or some tracks from Realm of Excursion at very elevated levels.

enjoy your submersives and if you get a chance post up some pics or your townhouse theatres, mine is in the family room.
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post #1020 of 9562 Old 05-04-2009, 08:09 AM
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What's the status of getting premium finishes on the Submersive? It's the major issue that's holding me back.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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