Official Craigsub rankings thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 10:14 AM
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oh snap....a John sighting!
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post #182 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 10:31 AM
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Dreamcatcher wrote me a PM about my question about the PB-12NSD


I asked....How did you like the 2 PB-12NSD's stacked in a corner...

He said
"For the money, they are awesome!
Build quality is excellent.
Sound quality is equally impressive.
Two PB12-NSD stacked in a corner will give you woofage comparable to the SVS Ultra/2, I had both in my system recently and actually preferred the PB12-NSD stacked pair! The new drivers in the PB12-NSD are probably responsible for their excellent performance. I also like the front firing driver and port.
If you have the room, they are very large when stacked, then go for it. You'll get top of the line sub performance at a fraction of the price of the big boys. IMHO
dc"


That information is so useful coming from someone who as actually had the luxury of having all of these different subs to compare and contrast!

DUAL PB-12NSDs seem like 100% my best option! (considering I already have 1)

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post #183 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 10:40 AM
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I hear it from good sources that Santa is still trying decide whether Sherv is naughty or nice.

John
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post #184 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 11:00 AM
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well if you believe your sources, I'm gonna guess the forecast is "naughty"...
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post #185 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Dreamcatcher wrote me a PM about my question about the PB-12NSD


I asked....How did you like the 2 PB-12NSD's stacked in a corner...

He said
"For the money, they are awesome!
Build quality is excellent.
Sound quality is equally impressive.
Two PB12-NSD stacked in a corner will give you woofage comparable to the SVS Ultra/2, I had both in my system recently and actually preferred the PB12-NSD stacked pair! The new drivers in the PB12-NSD are probably responsible for their excellent performance. I also like the front firing driver and port.
If you have the room, they are very large when stacked, then go for it. You'll get top of the line sub performance at a fraction of the price of the big boys. IMHO
dc"


That information is so useful coming from someone who as actually had the luxury of having all of these different subs to compare and contrast!

DUAL PB-12NSDs seem like 100% my best option! (considering I already have 1)

why are you hijacking everyones postings about endless nsdPB12, nsdPB12, nsdPB12? it seem that every post of yours you mention it every time, just out of nowhere. are you employed by teh company?

for that kind of money, others would be better getting two MFW15 or mk3VTF3.
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post #186 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 11:30 AM
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1. This is a free open forum....If you don't like it. Don't respond. "If you don't have something nice to say, do not say anything at all."

2. I had a reason to ask this question to dreamcatcher because of his knowledge and experience with these various subs.

3. I had a reason to post the findings it because another user was VERY interested as well.

4. I tell people to look at HSU, SVS and other brands. I'm just asking some questions and trying to find out from informed people about the sub I own. I'm not trying to steal a thread or anything, I don't work for SVS or HSU or anyone. Just a guy with an addiction to HT like the rest of us.


Thanks again to DreamCatcher for useful information........it is nice to know there are people out there who have been lucky enough to sample many subs, and they are willing to share their knowledge and experience with others!




ps.....are YOU employed by some company, because I looked and almost EVERY post by you mentions mk3VTF3.

Asking me if I work for SVS is Kind of like calling the kettle black wouldn't you say. LOL

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post #187 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 12:02 PM
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ok then just dont overdo it and go bonkers with the talk about your 12, esp when the thread topics is about something different completely. there is the officials threads for more talk about brand
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post #188 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlarsen View Post

ok then just dont overdo it and go bonkers with the talk about your 12, esp when the thread topics is about something different completely. there is the officials threads for more talk about brand


If you read back when I first posted it was about the JL and my interest in hearing one. Then it moved on to where we currently are...

I read that someone actually had experience with 2 PB-12's in addition to MANY other subwoofers, which interested me because I'm thinking about adding a 2nd and so is another member. Knowing how 2 would stack up against the competiion is actually right on topic I would say, considering it would be like ranking performace vs cost....


I'm sorry this has caused you such pain, we are all just trying to learn...

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post #189 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 01:27 PM
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[quote=mazersteven]
Quote:
Originally Posted by new27 View Post

This was taken fron AV123 boards, it is GOLD imo and deserving of it's own thread. Bravo Craig!

1. JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points.
2. Velodyne DD-18: 100 points.
3. ACI Maestro: 97 points.
4. JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points.
5. Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
5a. Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
6. SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points.
6T. Axiom EP-500: 90 points
7. SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points.
8. Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
9. Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
10. Rocket Tyke: 60 points

QUOTE]

So based on the selling prices of these subs, and these numbers (keeping in mind the laws of Diminishing Returns).

How would these subs rate dollar vs. performance from 1-10?

I guess I don't get my question answer buy CraigSub.
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post #190 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 01:54 PM
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That's a good question. It would help if you posted the prices of those subs for comparison.

John
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post #191 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeman View Post

That's a good question. It would help if you posted the prices of those subs for comparison.

I'm sure some can be had for less, but this is what I found:

1. $3200 JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points.
2. $4995 Velodyne DD-18: 100 points.
3. $2100 ACI Maestro: 97 points.
4. $2200 JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points.
5. $999 Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
5a. $899 Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
6. $1199 SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points.
6T. $1200 Axiom EP-500: 90 points
7. $1199 SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points.
8. $1099 Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
9. $199 Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
10. ???? Rocket Tyke: 60 points

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #192 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I'm sure some can be had for less, but this is what I found:

1. $3200 JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points.
2. $4995 Velodyne DD-18: 100 points.
3. $2100 ACI Maestro: 97 points.
4. $2200 JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points.
5. $999 Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
5a. $899 Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
6. $1199 SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points.
6T. $1200 Axiom EP-500: 90 points
7. $1199 SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points.
8. $1099 Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
9. $199 Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
10. ???? Rocket Tyke: 60 points


Looking at those #'s really puts things in perspective.
The HSU based on Price to Performance wins hands down out of these 10 subs with the ROCKET being an amazing 2nd value to performance for only $200! I cannot believe that a $200 sub made this list.....can someone tell me more about it?

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post #193 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 02:38 PM
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Maybe Craig can chime in here but I don't believe this is Craig's overall top 10 list. It is just a list of 10 subs he reveiwed and has a number attached to it. More will be added to the list I'm sure. Craig, will you only keep it to 10 subs or will the list eventually contain all subs you review with this system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Looking at those #'s really puts things in perspective.
The HSU based on Price to Performance wins hands down out of these 10 subs with the ROCKET being an amazing 2nd value to performance for only $200! I cannot believe that a $200 sub made this list.....can someone tell me more about it?

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post #194 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 03:08 PM
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B-Stock Tyke subs are currently selling for $80. The sub has never been sold individually so I guess it may be fair to price the Tyke sub at $99 (just a guess).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I'm sure some can be had for less, but this is what I found:

1. $3200 JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points.
2. $4995 Velodyne DD-18: 100 points.
3. $2100 ACI Maestro: 97 points.
4. $2200 JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points.
5. $999 Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
5a. $899 Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
6. $1199 SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points.
6T. $1200 Axiom EP-500: 90 points
7. $1199 SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points.
8. $1099 Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
9. $199 Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
10. ???? Rocket Tyke: 60 points

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post #195 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 03:55 PM
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Good stuff Legairre. Based on the rating parameters there's a big exponential drop in performance so the Rocket Tyke looks fairly priced. In the other direction the JL Audio Fathom 113 looks like a pretty good deal compared to the other contenders. No question Hsu hit a home run with the VTF-3 HO compared to the price points for the SVS and Axiom subs. Looks like the wait was well worth it.

John
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post #196 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 04:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete GTP View Post

Maybe Craig can chime in here but I don't believe this is Craig's overall top 10 list. It is just a list of 10 subs he reveiwed and has a number attached to it. More will be added to the list I'm sure. Craig, will you only keep it to 10 subs or will the list eventually contain all subs you review with this system?

Correct ... Assuming this rating system has merit, it will be used on any sub that goes through here.
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post #197 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 05:23 PM
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Craig, any plans to add a DIY sub to the mix so we can see where those end up? Maybe a typical box, as well as an LLT, possibly even a Rhythmic 15"? An IB would be fun too, but certainly not feasible.
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post #198 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeman View Post

Good stuff Legairre. Based on the rating parameters there's a big exponential drop in performance so the Rocket Tyke looks fairly priced. In the other direction the JL Audio Fathom 113 looks like a pretty good deal compared to the other contenders. No question Hsu hit a home run with the VTF-3 HO compared to the price points for the SVS and Axiom subs. Looks like the wait was well worth it.

Thanks jakeman, Hsu definately hit a homerun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liaury View Post

B-Stock Tyke subs are currently selling for $80. The sub has never been sold individually so I guess it may be fair to price the Tyke sub at $99 (just a guess).

OK Let's throw the Tyke in for $99. I don't think anyone will mind.

BTW all prices are MSRP, except maybe the Type

1. $3200 JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points.
2. $4995 Velodyne DD-18: 100 points.
3. $2100 ACI Maestro: 97 points.
4. $2200 JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points.
5. $999 Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
5a. $899 Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
6. $1199 SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points.
6T. $1200 Axiom EP-500: 90 points
7. $1199 SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points.
8. $1099 Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
9. $199 Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
10. $99 Rocket Tyke: 60 points

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #199 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 05:46 PM
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I know it's more work, but it would be interesting to see how some middle-range ($400-$700) stack up.
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post #200 of 6764 Old 12-20-2006, 06:25 PM
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The "all in" the CDN shipped price for the VTF3-HO from HSU to Ontario (includes PST, shipping, brokerage fees, duty) is about $1,400 without the turbo, and almost $1,600 with turbo (depending on the final fx rate off the credit card which is always at a premium).

This would put it in line with the EP500, The PB12-Plus (rosewood) assuming I could pick up either and not incur shipping costs.

It also starts to creep into the P'dgm Servo 15 v2 territory and I'll have to check what the discounted price is from some dealers on the F112 but I get the feeling it's still close to $3kCDN.

Based on this thread, sounds like the HO is still the best deal as it will "sound better" than the Plus, and go lower/louder than the EP500 (?), unfortunately I still think even w/out turbo it's the ugliest "box" of the three (maybe that's just a personal thing).

Craig, or anyone, have you had the chance to audition the v2 versus the VTF3-HO?

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post #201 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 01:15 PM
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Hey,
We should all pitch in a couple of bucks to buy craig one of those stairway assistance lifts for the elderly/handicapped (for the subs not craig).
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post #202 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 01:19 PM
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craig....how about putting one of these water heater looking things that will hold an 18" avalanche XBL^2 driver in the mix?

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post #203 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 01:43 PM
 
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Lindahl ... There are a few DIY projects in the works, with the hope that a dual, sealed, SoundSplinter sub being added to the mix in January, along with some from a couple of known sources which asked for anonymity (for now).

Cyberbri - The $600 MFW-15 is due here fairly soon ... it would be cool to test it against the The Hsu and SVS stuff in the price range.

PBC - I have not had a V2 in our system ... but I heard one at a store, it is an excellent sub - probably in the Fathom 112 to Maestro range.

Sherv ... Stay Tuned ...
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post #204 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 03:20 PM
 
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The next round is set ... We have on hand the SVS PB10-ISD, which is said to be identical to the newer NSD.

And I just ordered a PB12-NSD, a Hsu VTF-2 Mark III and a Hsu VTF-3 Mark III.

The $400 to $700 range will be served pretty well.
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post #205 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

The next round is set ... We have on hand the SVS PB10-ISD, which is said to be identical to the newer NSD.

And I just ordered a PB12-NSD, a Hsu VTF-2 Mark III and a Hsu VTF-3 Mark III.

The $400 to $700 range will be served pretty well.

great to hear! a lot of the subs you've already tested are unfortunately out of reach (for now, anyway) for many of us. i for one would be very interested to see how the best subs in this price class stack up. looking forward to it...

"That's right Mr. Martini...there is an Easter Bunny".
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post #206 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

The next round is set ... We have on hand the SVS PB10-ISD, which is said to be identical to the newer NSD.

And I just ordered a PB12-NSD, a Hsu VTF-2 Mark III and a Hsu VTF-3 Mark III.

The $400 to $700 range will be served pretty well.


Any chance of getting a Mirage S12 in there?
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post #207 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Sherv ... Stay Tuned ...

Ok craig...its been almost 7 weeks, and you still haven't given me a single clue....

c'mon man, throw me a bone here! Dont tell me you are doing one yourself?
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post #208 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 04:33 PM
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Sherv, those are neat looking waterheaters. Seeing how its winter I'll be in the Florida place alot more. We should get together and see if those DIY thingamajiggers sound as good as you say. Nice chrome dome by the way.

John
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post #209 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

There are a few DIY projects in the works

I'm sure I've missed the answer, so I feel stupid asking, but what about the BLT? Where does it fall?

My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
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post #210 of 6764 Old 12-21-2006, 04:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

I'm sure I've missed the answer, so I feel stupid asking, but what about the BLT? Where does it fall?

It was never rated ... I am talking to my brother tomorrow about building a dual driver sealed unit using the 2 SS drivers.
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