Official Craigsub rankings thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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This was taken fron AV123 boards, it is GOLD imo and deserving of it's own thread. Bravo Craig!

edited Jan 18 to reflect the addition of the HSU VTF 3.3 and SVS PB12-NSD
edited Jan 19 to reflect the addition of the SVS PB10-NSD
edited Jan 23 to reflect the addition of the HSU VTF 2.3


JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points


As you can see, the "least performing" subwoofer still delivers 60 points. The Tyke really cannot deliver subwoofer performance. It still will add foundation to bookshelf speakers, and is a pretty good barometer for the entry level sub.

The Axiom EP-500 and the PB12-Ultra are virtual ties. The Axiom is a little more articulate, while the Ultra yields an extra 1/2 octave deeper.

The UFW-12 is the original version, and is only limited due to the fact it only manages 25 Hz. MLS mentioned getting me the upgraded driver/amp package. So, as with the Hsu, the rating is a provisional one.

For the scale, I consider 75 to be about the point in which a subwoofer is having a major beneficial impact on the overall system ... and the X-sub qualifies for that distinction.

Also ... Later the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the MBM-12 will be tested as a $1500 subwoofer, which will be the price for both, including the Turbo.

When evaluating these subs, I wanted to develop a system which would be easy to follow ... yet allow for a HUGE difference in the performance between, say, a TYKE and a Fathom 113.

In a direct linear fashion, the Tyke might look like it is 58.25% the sub the 113 is. Of course, it is not.

How the scaling works is this: each 3 points represents a 15% higher level of overall performance. It is also cumulative.

For example, The Fathom 113 is 43 points higher than the TYKE. Grab a calculator, and you will see you have 14.33 consecutive 15% improvements.

Take 1.15 x 1, and do it 14 times, and you get 7.08. Next, multiply 7.075 x 1.05, and you get 7.43.

In other words, the Fathom has 743% higher performance than does the Tyke.

The Hsu VTF-3 HO W/Turbo has 38.9% higher performance than does the SVS PB12-Plus/2 (in this case, the overall musicality added to extension wins the day).

The Fathom 113 has 46.5% higher performance than does the 112.

As an aside, to keep this from being overcomplicated, each single point outside the 3 point criteria is scored at 1.05, not according to a true scale, which would be 1.0477.
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post #2 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 01:44 PM
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Hey come on now.... I read all 71 pages of that thread....everyone else should have to as well.

-Eli

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post #3 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 02:17 PM
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He he my dual f113 are happy campers. At the top Take that competition,oups I own the competing subs too.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #4 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 02:40 PM
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Oh, boy.........Let's Get Ready to Rummmmmmbbbblllleeeeee.......!!!!!!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #5 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 04:33 PM
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Anyone know where the old school Hsu TN1220 would rank? I'm trying to decide if I want to move up in the world and what exactly would be "up".
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post #6 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 04:58 PM
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Nice little ranking system Craig has. I remember the preliminary points for the f113 was 106 I think. I guess he felt the DD-18 and the f113 were closer than he originally thought.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how Mark Seatons new subs will rank.
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post #7 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:04 PM
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Wow....I'd like to hear this F113 and F112.

They have to be GOD LIKE!

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post #8 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:24 PM
 
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Here is the scoring summary with the Home Theater score and Music score, respectively shown as (HT-M).

Prices and whether the items are available Internet Direct or from a store are now included. Keep in mind that ID pricing will usually be firm, or slightly discounted, where some BM products will see substantial discounts. BM = Brick and Mortar. ID = Internet Direct. ID/SI = shipping included.

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): 105 points (57-48)
JL Audio Fathom 113 ($3500 BM): 103 points (53-50)
AV123 MFW-15 ($599 ID): 103 points (53-50)
Def Tech Trinity ($3000 BM): 102 points (54-48)
Velodyne DD-18 ($5000 BM): 100 points (50-50)
ACI Maestro ($2400 ID): 97 points (47-50)
eD A5-350 ($715 ID/SI): 96 points (50-46)
JL Audio Fathom 112 ($2600 BM): 95 points (45-50)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo ($999 ID): 94 points (47-47)
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo ($899 ID): 92 points (45-47)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo ($799 ID): 92 points (45-47)
VMPS VSS ($1650 BM and ID): 92 points (45-47)
Epik Valor ($549 ID): 91 points (44-47)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo ($699 ID): 91 points (45-46)
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points (47-43)
Axiom EP-500 ($1230 ID/SI): 90 points (43-47)
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo ($599 ID): 88 points (42-46)
SVS PB12-Plus/2 ($1299 ID): 87 points (47-40)
SVS PB12-NSD ($599 ID): 86 points (43-43)
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo ($499 ID): 86 points (40-46)
Rocket UFW-12 ($999 ID): 85 points (provisional) (35-50)
Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350 ID/SI): 83 points (44-39)
SVS PB10-NSD ($429 ID): 83 points (43-40)
Dana Audio 600 ($869 ID): 83 points (36-47)
Rocket X-Sub ($199 ID): 78 points (34-44)
BIC H-100 ($229 eBay): 78 points (40-38)
Rocket Tyke: 60 points (If you care, PM me ... )

Pending subwoofers ...

VMPS VSS Powered sub - Early March, 2008
AV123 BMF ... Not sure of date
Epik Knight ... Not sure of Date

*: The Hsu MBM-12 has been tried with several subwoofers here. We found it to be a good room solution, for times when the best placement with a subwoofer for the deep stuff did not necessarily give the best performance in the 50-80 Hz area. We could not come up with a consistent way of scoring it with the other subs, including the VTF-3 HO. Instead, it is suggested to be look at as a possible enchancement to any subwoofer package.

Listening procedures:

All listening us done under blind conditions. The panel of listeners include several very experienced audiophiles, some of whom also design and build high end pro audio speakers. The subwoofers were each placed in the identical room position, and eq'ed to have a fairly flat (3 dB window) response curve from 18 Hz and up, when the subwoofer was able to go that "low".

Measuring procedures: All measurements are taken at 2 meters/GP from the front baffle of a subwoofer. In the case of a ported sub, the microphone is placed so it is 2 meters from the center of the driver(s) and port. The posted measured results are max "clean" 20 Hz output and the average from 20 to 63 Hz. If it seemed like the amp was the limiting factor in output, "AL" is added to the 20 Hz SPL.

The purpose of this information is to help people to quickly look at a variety of subwoofers and get a pair of scores, some performance numbers, and some listening tests describing the characteristics of each subwoofer. Hopefully, this will provide some assistance when researching for a subwoofer purchase. There will be times that a lower rated sub will work better for someone than a higher rated sub. For example, size, or output, in a lower rated sub may make a difference. Listening preferences may also make a difference. If slam is valued over extension, some subs excel at the 30-60 Hz slam. For others, extension will be the most important issue.

1. Elemental Designs A7-900.

Listening results: This subwoofer has almost no weaknesses. It presents everything from the deepest pipe organ and movie bass spectaculars to a hard driving bass guitar with an effortless quality that is the best we have heard to date. On the WOTW machines emerge scene, there was nothing but waves of bass that one felt rolling through the room. The standard Steely Dan 2AN disc was tight, tuneful, and the 18 Hz bass present in this disc was easily felt, yet the upper bass regions were agile.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 113.5 dB AL ... 20-63 Hz average: 118 dB AL

2. Epik Conquest

Listening results: This subwoofer is hard to distinguish from the A7-900. Once again, pipe organ, the WOTW scene, bass guitar - were all played effortlessly. It is not quite at powerful, nor as visceral, as the bigger eD sub, but it is also an easier sub to live with for some rooms, because it is not quite as large as is the eD.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 111.5 dB AL ... 20-63 Hz average: 116.5 dB AL.

3a. SVS PB13-Ultra

Listening results: This subwoofer delivers incredible performance from a moderate sized box. It is almost on par with the larger Conquest and eD subs in terms of delivering palpable bass, and it is as articulate as the standard bearer Fathom 113. A great choice when one is looking for a combination of reasonable WAF and performance.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 108 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 113.5 dB

3b. Epik Castle

Listening results: Another subwoofer of reasonable size which also gives a terrific performance. It loses some in articulation to the SVS, but also has a bit more authority on powerful movie scenes. It is a solid choice when one wants a large slice of the Conquest/A7-900 performance in a package that is easier to live with.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 108.5 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 115.5 dB

3c. AV123 MFW-15

Listening results: Pairing two MFW-15's does exactly what one would expect, it adds a signifigant amount of slam to the areas in which the single unit excelled. What a pair of MFW-15's does above 20 Hz is what makes it the 3rd alternative in the $1500 and under category for excellent performance for the $$$. On music, it is tight, clean and tuneful. It is the other sub combo the brought the Steely Dan 2AN disc to life. On movies, one will experience room shaking bass that is visceral, with the best slam of any subwoofer in its class. It is overshadowed below 20 Hz by the Castle and Ultra, and it will be up to the listener to decide which of the 3 "109 pointers" works best in his system.



4. Creative Sounds DIY Dual SDX-15

Listening results: After carefully adjusting for a proper shelving curve (kudos to Mark Seaton for the tutorial on the 2496), this subwoofer gave a credible performance. The only real downside is that the new Castle from Epik is a superior performer in a smaller package for less money and no labor required.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 104 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 115 dB

5a. JL Audio Fathom 113

Listening results: The built in ARO system makes calibration into one's system a snap. The Fathom allows the well heeled audiophile to get an unmatched combination of powerful bass and extension with bass quality that matches the finest monitor speakers, all in a package that will fit in a room of high quality furniture. The panel of listeners was shocked that something so compact could deliver such visceral bass. This is the first subwoofer that delivers on the promise of small size with true subwoofer performance.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 102 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 112.5 dB

5b. AV-123 MFW-15.

Listening results: The MFW-15 amazed the panel by largely matching the PB13 Ultra in all musical areas with the exception of pipe organ. Bass is deep, tight and powerful, with no overhang at all. The cabinet work done on this subwoofer is absolultely stellar, especially in its price range. By stellar, we mean just how inert it is. The cabinet barely vibrates during the most powerful passages, and this helps the MFW-15 to get its excellent musical rating. It is, as an earlier graph shows, very linear in its response curve, all the way to 100 Hz. It is in the area of slam an linearity that allows this subwoofer to match more high priced units. The Steely Dan disc on this subwoofer is a bass head's dream, with a lot of the panel requesting to hear it again after the test. Stanley Clarke was also as crystal clear on the MFW-15 as with any subwoofer we have had.

Measured results... 20 Hz - 105 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 112 dB

6. Definitive Technology Trinity

Listening results: The Trinity surprised a few listeners by being much musical than a dual active 14 and quad passive 14 inch drivered sub "should". Its music/movie weakness was above 60 Hz, and this sub is a total performer when used with a 50-60 Hz crossover. For home theater, no sub here delivered a better performance on the machines emerge scene from WOTW, while Steely Dan's 2AN was almost as good as the Elemental Design's delivery.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 109 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 115.5 dB

7. Velodyne DD-18.

Listening results: The big Velodyne was our original standard bearer here. It is a beast above 25 Hz, and is the ultimate in "plug and play", in regards to its auto eq. The DD-18 is still worthy of consideration, but it is eclipsed by many newer offerings.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 95 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 109 dB

8. ACI Maestro (2nd edition).

Listening results: The ACI shares a lot with the DD-18. At the time we teste it, it was a spectacular performer. It delivers a solid 25 Hz floor, with a roll off below that. It does not handle the WOTW scene as well as a $2400 subwoofer should, but on music it is stellar.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 95 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 108 dB (note, these #'s are a lot lower than the original Maestro. At the time of the original Maestro, I measure @ 1 meter from center of enclosure, or about 18 inches from driver, and achieved 107 dB).

9. Elemental Designs A5-350

Listening results: The eD surprised a lot of the panel with its ability to retain excellent music scores. It is another sub that loves the 2AN disc, and most were impressed when they find out it was a $715 subwoofer. It also handles the WOTW scene with a lot of power and floor shaking ability. It does not quite match the more expensive subs in articulation, but for $715, it is a bargain.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 105 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 111 dB.

10. JL Audio F-112

Listening results: From 25 Hz and up, it is impossible to tell the difference between it and the Fathom 113. It is an outstanding compact subwoofer. The general concensus, though, was if one was going to buy a 112, spend the extra $$$ and get a 113.

Measured results ... Not measured. Sorry, somehow this slipped past us.

11. Hsu VTF-3HO (With and Without Turbo)

Listening results: For a subwoofer package of $900 to $1000, the Hsu VTF-3 HO was, at the time of its release, the standard bearer in its price range. It is exceptional on music, and delivers slam on HT which will impress anyone used to what is normally purchased for more money at a store. The Turbo adds extra heft below the 20 Hz standard for a true subwoofer, and the Hsu is a solid choice even today for someone looking for a relatively compact subwoofer.

Measured results : 20 Hz... 101-102 dB (depending on configuration) ... 20-63 Hz Average ... 108 dB

12. Hsu VTF-3.3 (With and without Turbo)

Listening results: The VTF-3.3 is very close overall to the VTF-3 HO. It is exceptional for its price, in terms of its output and visceral feel. For music, it is unmatched in its price range - or was, until the Epik Valor came along. This is a subwoofer that goes beyond its measured numbers, and for its often quoted sale price of $629, an exceptional value.

Measured results: 20 Hz: 100-101 dB (depending on configuration) ... 20-63 Hz average ... 107 dB

13. VMPS VSS

Listening results: The VMPS is a very capable subwoofer, with excellent power to 30 Hz, and adequate power below 30 Hz. It is a good choice for someone who places a premium on music performance, especially classical music. Bass is subjectively deep and tight on discs like Two Against Nature. It does lack in visceral response to many other subwoofers, including several less costly competitors.

Measured results: TBD

14. Epic Valor

Listening results: The Valor is a subwoofer which will be the answer to many budget audiophile's dreams. It is an exceptional musical performer from about 18 Hz and up, with a very agile presentation of bass at all times. In our smaller basement theater, using a pretty good high end set up, it amazed listeners in its presentation of the Steely Dan 2AN disc, and also with its slam for HT. It is not an SPL monster like the Castle, but in the right room, it is magic.

Measured Results: 20 Hz... 99 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 109 dB

15. SVS PB-12 Ultra

Listening results: A terrific subwoofer considering its 2002 design. It remained competitive in the $1200 - $1500 arena until 2007, when it was replaced by the PB13-Ultra. The "old" Ultra was at one time a standard bearer for performance, and remains a solid mid pack subwoofer today.

Measured results: 20 Hz ... 102 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 109 dB

16. Axiom EP-500

Listening results: The EP-500 was one of the first subwoofers to stress linearity across its frequency band. What is somewhat ironic is it sounds more like the baby brother to the new PB-13 Ultra than do smaller SVS models. It is capable of surprising amounts of bass slam, and is excetionally articulate for music. Its down side is that is current price is rather expensive for the performance. Its up side is it is quite compact, and an excellent choice when space is a consideration.

Measured results: 20 Hz ... 97 dB ... 20-63 Hz average ... 107 dB
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post #9 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Wow....I'd like to hear this F113 and F112.

They have to be GOD LIKE!

We may have a GTG at our home ... Erie is a pretty easy drive from Cleveland. It would be a lot of fun, and educational, for you to come up and join in on some blind tests.
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post #10 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

We may have a GTG at our home ... Erie is a pretty easy drive from Cleveland. It would be a lot of fun, and educational, for you to come up and join in on some blind tests.

Just take Peach Street to Subwoofer Way.
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post #11 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

We may have a GTG at our home ... Erie is a pretty easy drive from Cleveland. It would be a lot of fun, and educational, for you to come up and join in on some blind tests.

I would definitely be interested in participating, since I am in the market for a new subwoofer.

I would try to bring my beautiful wife as well. She makes mean martinis. But then again, I don't think that would be such a good idea. Analogous to beer glasses, after two martinis, everything would start sounding good.

Life is good.
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post #12 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:52 PM
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There wouldn't be a calculation for dual subs on here, would there? Like, 2 of the same subs would add a certein number of points? I'd be sad if my dual svs ultra subs would lose out to the single hsu turbo/HO that's half the price. I'd love to hear one of those in person, along with a fathom 113.
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post #13 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 05:59 PM
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I guess my MK subs are shiity.....LOL



Walt
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post #14 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 06:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dweekie View Post

There wouldn't be a calculation for dual subs on here, would there? Like, 2 of the same subs would add a certein number of points? I'd be sad if my dual svs ultra subs would lose out to the single hsu turbo/HO that's half the price. I'd love to hear one of those in person, along with a fathom 113.

There is no calculation for dual subs here. However, your post just brought up a few points which need to be discussed.

If you look at the ratings of the Ultra Vs. The VTF-3 HO, The newest Hsu scored 10-20% higher than did the Ultra, based on a combination of blind tests and the measurements.

Other people may audition the same 2 subs and come to the opposite conclusion from mine. The Hsu DOES hit deeper, and, to me, handles music in a more accurate fashion than does the Ultra.

The two subs scored closely enough that both are in a "close enough that either will do a great job" category.

As an aside, I CRINGED when I saw this thread. The sub wars here tend to get pretty fiesty. This is why I did not post the results here myself.

Hopefully, over the next few months, as I get a chance to catalog a few more subs, it will become clear that this is merely an attempt to help people who are looking for a new subwoofer to wade through a lot of info fairly quickly.
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post #15 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 06:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffexec View Post

I guess my MK subs are shiity.....LOL



Walt

M&K makes some SERIOUSLY good sounding subwoofers. They are among the best at getting the 25-80 Hz band done right. So, no, yours are not shiity ...

I would love to get my hands on the new 5100 ... I don't think they even have a dealer near here.
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post #16 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 06:16 PM
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Yes, this thread will not end well. (Go figure)

REMINDER TO ALL...DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE IF SOMEONE DOES NOT RATE THE SUB YOU OWN AS THE BEST. I am sure you can find a review that makes yours out to be great. Reviews are all over the place.

What I am saying is...DO NOT START TO ATTACK PEOPLE!

Thank you.

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DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

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post #17 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

This is why I did not post the results here myself.

WHAT?!?! So this is NOT the official Craigsub rankings thread?


My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
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post #18 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
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WHAT?!?! So this is NOT the official Craigsub rankings thread?


Darin, if this was an official ANYTHING of mine, you know there would be a happy hour involved somewhere. Do you see a bar here ?

Nope.

This is the unofficial, why are we here ?, thread ...
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post #19 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Darin, if this was an official ANYTHING of mine, you know there would be a happy hour involved somewhere. Do you see a bar here ?

Nope.

This is the unofficial, why are we here ?, thread ...

Well, the "unofficial" guides to everything are always more popular than the "official" ones. If you go to any bookstore, doesn't the "Unofficial guide to ____" catch your attention a lot quicker than the "official" guides?
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There have been several threads where people in the market for subs are second guessing their purchase after all the news about the new subs on the market. I basically have said that you guys are pretty much nuts over bass, and if this is their first time hearing true bass from SVS, HSU, and the like, then they will be blown away compared to what they have heard from most sub $1000 retail subs.

I think it's important to remember, that even though craig and the gang may feel that X sub is 20% better than Y sub, that most people wouldn't even know the difference if you told them what to listen for. It's just great that there are so many options on the market.

Now excuse me while I go apply for a home equity loan to buy a new sub. :-)
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post #21 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:07 PM
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Darin, if this was an official ANYTHING of mine, you know there would be a happy hour involved somewhere. Do you see a bar here ?

Nope.

This is the unofficial, why are we here ?, thread ...

I have the DD18. But what do you think of the Triad 18" subwoofer?
Thanks in advance.
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post #22 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:25 PM
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We may have a GTG at our home ... Erie is a pretty easy drive from Cleveland. It would be a lot of fun, and educational, for you to come up and join in on some blind tests.


I would be in 100%. VERY FUN and def. an educational experience that you cannot get many other places.

I don't think I could bring my PB-12NSD with me for the sheer size....and the fact that you are going to be listening to MONSTERS compared to my "little" PB12......but I have a pretty good bet that I could bring us some beer to make it an OFFICIAL meet

Just gotta take it easy....dont want to get "ear goggles" as someone mentioned earlier!!!

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post #23 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:29 PM
 
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I have the DD18. But what do you think of the Triad 18" subwoofer?
Thanks in advance.

It is a very nice subwoofer. You would be hard pressed to hear a big difference between it and your Velo.
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post #24 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:34 PM
 
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I would be in 100%. VERY FUN and def. an educational experience that you cannot get many other places.

I don't think I could bring my PB-12NSD with me for the sheer size....and the fact that you are going to be listening to MONSTERS compared to my "little" PB12......but I have a pretty good bet that I could bring us some beer to make it an OFFICIAL meet

Just gotta take it easy....dont want to get "ear goggles" as someone mentioned earlier!!!

Actually, for box size, yours would be up there. We do have a PB12-Plus/2, a PB12-Ultra, and a PB10-ISD here ... SVS will be well represented.

You have to EARN a beer though ... you have to carry a 113 from our family room to the basement theater room...
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post #25 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:41 PM
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You have to EARN a beer though ... you have to carry a 113 from our family room to the basement theater room...

27 years old -----5'9 160lbs is not going to carry that monster around.

Although I must note I MYSELF manged to get my PB-12 out of my car, carry it into my house and place it where I wanted it.

Then I chugged about 2 beers and wanted someone to give me some vicodin for the pain in my back. LOL

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post #26 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:46 PM
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Then I chugged about 2 beers and wanted someone to give me some vicodin for the pain in my back. LOL

I can one-up you, but you will have to search to find out what I'm talking about.

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post #27 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:48 PM
 
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I can one-up you, but you will have to search to find out what I'm talking about.

Are you the gent who had a heart attack from carrying in his Ultra about ... 2 years ago ?
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post #28 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:51 PM
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Is time moving that fast for you? Must be the 40something syndrome.
It was a +/2 and it was in April 2006.
I was just going to give gilly something to do. I believe the threads from April are already deleted.

Randy
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post #29 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:54 PM
 
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Is time moving that fast for you? Must be the 40something syndrome.
It was a +/2 and it was in April 2006.

Actually, if 8 months seems like 2 years, time is moving SLOW for me. At 46, I'll TAKE IT ...

It really does seem like "forever ago" ... glad you recovered.
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post #30 of 6764 Old 12-13-2006, 07:58 PM
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Craig: Any thoughts on where a TN1220 would rate?
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