Is the BIC Acoustech H100 a good sub? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JaredSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does it sound clean? I bought one for $195. Hopefully it is good. Will be going with CHT speakers (velodyne). Thanks!
JaredSD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 12:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
OvalNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 1,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yes, it is a very good sub. It is generally regarded as among the 2-3 best subs in it's price range.

Enjoy.

Tim

He drove a black and white pirate ship at 190 mph.
- Dale in the #3 will never be forgotten. Thanks for the memories.
OvalNut is offline  
post #3 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Yes, it is very decent for its price in small to medium rooms. It goes down to about 28Hz or so, which puts it on par with the HSU STF-1 (actually the H100 and the STF-1 have the exact same amplifier), and the Onix/AV123 x-sub.

Shiny finish on top is very nice as well.
cyberbri is offline  
post #4 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 03:45 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have measured the h100 with output down to 20 hz....Look .


This was actual in room response in the middle of a 16x16 room. The sound meter was about 2.5 feet away from the back of the sub. It does go to 20hz.
tdamocles is offline  
post #5 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 03:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
It does "go," but with no authority. A change of 6dB~10dB is perceived as a doubling or halving of volume.
Here's what it was doing in my previous residence - before we moved and before I upgraded my speakers and sub:
cyberbri is offline  
post #6 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:07 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What do you have now and have you tested that new sub in the same position? In room response can cause a 10db lower shift. I'd bet that a different sub in that same position would have the same peaks as that graph you posted. An EQ does a world of a difference.
tdamocles is offline  
post #7 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
It looks like there's bass there in that graph, but really, below 27~28Hz you couldn't hear anything. Getting close to the sub, it was pumping its little heart out in the low 20s, and it wasn't bass so much as distortion. And it did stop making noise at 20Hz. Maybe a limiter in the amp, I don't know.

If you look in the archives, I posted quite extensively on my old H100, with lots of graphs and pictures.


I have a HSU VTF-3 MK2 now, in a different room. But in my new room (much bigger now), I put the H100 on top of the HSU to demo it for the person that bought it. It's a decent little sub for small or medium rooms, but it wasn't even close to the HSU. Not by a long shot. It has the same amp as the STF-1, so it's probably that kind of comparison. In a medium-large room, decent enough for some low end for music or movies, but not for serious HT or if you like a lot of bass for music. You can crank it and run it hot, but it doesn't compete with the big boys.

Really, the H100 is only good to 27~28Hz. This falls in line with the STF-1 and x-sub, both 8"ers (and the H100 and STF-1 have the exact same amp). A sub with stronger output below 30Hz, like my new sub, wouldn't have dropped off like that in that room. It just doesn't go that low.

And yes, an eq would have helped. I have bass traps and a BFD (and REW) now, if you've seen me post on numerous threads here, or in the BFD/REW area of hometheatershack.com
cyberbri is offline  
post #8 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:20 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Do you have the h100 now? If you do, stack it on top. Do some measurements. Then do some measurements with the hsu vtf3.2. I'd like to see the results. I'm nosey.

Remember, the hsu has 200 more watts.
tdamocles is offline  
post #9 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Sorry, I sold it.

Yes, and the HSU is much more $. You get what you pay for. And I was happy with the H100, till I got the HSU. Can't go back.
Now the VTF-2 MK3 is only $470 or so, the same sub as mine except with 100w less amp - rather than the $700 I paid for my VTF-3 MK2 last summer.
cyberbri is offline  
post #10 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Here's the big thread I had on my H100:
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=640646

I had to take my own pics of the sub down, since I deleted them from my AVS gallery. But there are pics from other users there.


This is a graph I did, attached to one of my posts on the second page of it, but it shows my mains and sub combined, with the roll-off below 30Hz:
(click to see)
cyberbri is offline  
post #11 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:29 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You'd be surprised how much a room can play havoc with response. I measure the h100 in a corner and from 20hz to about 30hz It rose 10-12 db. I then pulled it from the corner(recalibrated the loudness to the same level) and the 20hz area pulled up by 8-10db almost flattening response. Sub placement and EQing is critical.
tdamocles is offline  
post #12 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
You're preaching to the choir about placement and eq, tdamocles.


At least with the H100 I had, below 27~28Hz it wasn't bass, it was the driver trying to make bass but failing. I could hear/see it trying. But I couldn't hear bass with my head up close lower than 25Hz. It was clearly stressing.
cyberbri is offline  
post #13 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 04:50 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've got mine stacked with an eD sub, both eq'ed and they both sound great together. The h100 sounds a little different but my ears cannot discern bass when it is cranking. I've got the h100 eq'ed flat to 20hz and never had a problem(so far). I'm sure it will not hang with the eD when push comes to shove because the eD has 500watts. I'm keeping the h100.

When I had three different subs I measured all three in the same room at the same position at the same level and all of them followed the same response path(peaks and troughs) except for one that could not hold it's own below 28hz.
tdamocles is offline  
post #14 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 05:42 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Upon further listening tests the h100 doesn't have the same 'authority' as the eD a5 at the same level. Could it be that it is stacked on top? Probably not.....still sounds good.
tdamocles is offline  
post #15 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 05:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Charted response might be the same on different subs, but that's charted response, not real-world use, headroom, dynamics, max SPL, etc. The H100 is a capable sub, but it's still a $200~250 sub, and you get what you pay for with it.
cyberbri is offline  
post #16 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 06:06 PM
Senior Member
 
pattyosu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stillwater, Ok
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I agree you get what you pay for but im not sure comparing the H-100 to the stf-1 is fair, it's still a 12" driver. I have owned both the h-100 and the x-sub, which is supposed to compare very closely to the stf-1, and the h-100 was by far better for movies.
pattyosu is offline  
post #17 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sky042's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just got mine the other day and for $230 it's a STEAL
it replaced a 15" powered cerwin vega and it's MUCH much cleaner and has more LFE/bass where the other one sounded very boomy.

I also demo'd a Mirage Omni S8 and this is a far better sub than the Omni for less money.

I'm thrilled to death with it. Even in a 16x22 room(though it's right behind our couches where we can feel it don't want it to fill the whole room just where we're sitting)

PS3 & A2 = Format Neutral
Sky042 is offline  
post #18 of 407 Old 01-25-2007, 07:54 PM
Member
 
Echomalinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredSD View Post

Does it sound clean? I bought one for $195. Hopefully it is good. Will be going with CHT speakers (velodyne). Thanks!

The H100 is a good sounding sub, and for the money it has plenty of output. Will it go in to the low 20s not really. But if this is your first sub or home theater, you will be more then happy with the H100.

I agree with what Cyberbri said, once you have heard something like his VTF3-2 you would never be happy with a lesser sub. I went from an H100 to a VTF2-3 which is almost the same sub he has. I could never go back to a lesser sub.

Good luck!
Echomalinois is offline  
post #19 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 12:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Temple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 8,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 33
The H100 is a fine budget sub...probably best in class < $250. When you get in the $500 range will the ID brands, you're getting a huge boost in performance, but for the price of the BIC it's pretty hard to do better.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

Ron Temple is offline  
post #20 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 12:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Speqtre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, you guys that posted to this thread seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff, so I'm going to post a question that's been asked 1000 times before - how does the Energy S10.2 compare to the H100, considering that I can get the Energy for $234 shipped?
Speqtre is offline  
post #21 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 02:44 PM
Senior Member
 
pattyosu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stillwater, Ok
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The h-100 goes a little deeper and will not bottom out as quick as well as giving you a little more output. I really like energy brand, I think their sound is a great deal but I must confess I was a little disappointed with the s10, the guy demoing it to me bottomed it out on Space Jam. You won't be disapointed with the h-100 but it is just good enough to give you a tast of good base and leave you wanting more.
pattyosu is offline  
post #22 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 08:58 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Charted response might be the same on different subs, but that's charted response, not real-world use, headroom, dynamics, max SPL, etc. The H100 is a capable sub, but it's still a $200~250 sub, and you get what you pay for with it.

You got that right, the stuff that is not graphically seen is the gray area. How would you explain these 2 graphs? First is at listening position tested at 75db(corner loaded). The second is pulled to the middle of the room with the RS meter 2.5 feet from the sub, tested at 75db. If this was tested as a GP measurement, would it look more like the second graph(ignoring peaks and dips)?
LL
LL
tdamocles is offline  
post #23 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 09:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
It's really hard to compare the two very easily, because the v and h scale is different on each. To properly compare them, they have to be the same graph scale.

But they are both very different measurements. The first uses the corner and room gain, while the second is who-knows-where away from the walls, with presumably the mic near the floor (boundary reinforcement) but only getting the output from the front without the rear port being reinforced by the wall. The first graph is more indicative of real-world performance, with the sub in the corner and the mic at the LP. The second is pretty useless - even at 2~3 feet you are still dealing with a lot of room factors, with the mic in a strange location.
cyberbri is offline  
post #24 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 09:28 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

It's really hard to compare the two very easily, because the v and h scale is different on each. To properly compare them, they have to be the same graph scale.

Still depics the same info, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

But they are both very different measurements. The first uses the corner and room gain, while the second is who-knows-where away from the walls, with presumably the mic near the floor (boundary reinforcement) but only getting the output from the front without the rear port being reinforced by the wall. The first graph is more indicative of real-world performance, with the sub in the corner and the mic at the LP. The second is pretty useless - even at 2~3 feet you are still dealing with a lot of room factors, with the mic in a strange location.

So which is greater, corner load and room gain or boundary reinforcement(floor)?

Taking a measurement closer to the sub is more indicative of the sound, correct?


Why do they take GP measurements or anechoic measurements if it really means nothing? It isn't real world...
tdamocles is offline  
post #25 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 09:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
The graphs can't be compared because they aren't lined up and in the same dimensions. I posted two images. What do you think?
They are the exact same measurement, but with the vertical scale drastically different. Your graphs have different vertical scales as well as horizontal.


Corner reinforcement gives 3~4 boundaries, while floor is just 1. But GP measurements are done outside with nothing around for 50+ feet, to measure the sub's performance alone with no room interaction. That's different than putting a sub somewhere away from the wall inside a small room. It doesn't represent anything except what the sub would sound like with the sub in that location and your head where the mic is...

Without getting rid of the room from the equation, and just using a random location in the room, you are potentially getting further from the sound of the sub, not closer. But there's no way to tell, which is why mid-room graphs don't mean much.

Below 27~28Hz, the H100 is just struggling and a good part of that measured output is distortion. Like I said, I could stick my head up close to either the driver or port, and could see it flexing but it wasn't making bass. Not bass like it made in the 30s, and not bass like a sub that can actually do 25hz and below makes.
LL
LL
cyberbri is offline  
post #26 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 09:59 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

The graphs can't be compared because they aren't lined up and in the same dimensions. I posted two images. What do you think?
They are the exact same measurement, but with the vertical scale drastically different. Your graphs have different vertical scales as well as horizontal.

Can't you at least get an idea of what it looks like by the numbers?? If it was nice and square would it make everyone feel cozy? I no longer have the file to redo the v & h. Nitpicking, aren't ya?


I don't want to argue here but are you telling me that a sub in the middle of a room could have more bass reinforcement than one that is corner loaded?
tdamocles is offline  
post #27 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 10:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
I did look at it, and got a general idea. Of course.

Who knows what was going on with the room acoustics in either. You can walk around the room, stand on chairs, put your head on the floor, and the bass will be different levels at different frequencies everywhere you go. You can move 1' to the side of the listening position and get 10dB boost down low and a 10dB dip up high.

I used to have this sub, remember?
Chill out, okay? It's a great sub for the $, definitely.
Possibly one of the best under $300
I just found the manuf rating of it going down to 24hz to be pretty generous.
cyberbri is offline  
post #28 of 407 Old 01-26-2007, 11:35 PM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We'll leave it at that...Have a good night.
tdamocles is offline  
post #29 of 407 Old 01-27-2007, 04:28 AM
Senior Member
 
tdamocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One more thing, honestly, I think I got the h100 because of cyberbri's findings. Isn't it great that we have these resources? Just think, 20 years ago, if one wanted some off brand sub( they were almost unheard of) one would have had no idea they existed if one did not live locally to the place that created them. The internet can be a wonderful thing!
tdamocles is offline  
post #30 of 407 Old 01-27-2007, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cyberbri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 8,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
cyberbri is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off