OFFICIAL Hsu MBM-12 thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum

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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

robert9674's Avatar robert9674
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I have a VTF 3 HO with the turbo option and would love to buy an MBM and see how this works in my room(see above post from me)
bsoko2's Avatar bsoko2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post

I have a VTF 3 HO with the turbo option and would love to buy an MBM and see how this works in my room(see above post from me)

Here is the info on how to setup a true sub with a MBM-12. I had dual Hsu 3.3's and MBM's in the past and it really works. http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=33939&postcount=33
robert9674's Avatar robert9674
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Does anyone here have one of these for sale that I can buy?. If so send me a PM.
King_David's Avatar King_David
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Anyone interested in buying an MBM-12?

I just moved to the suburb of Philly and no lonAnyone interested in buying an MBM-12? ger have need of mine. It's in excellent condition barely used.
King_David's Avatar King_David
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Anyone interested in buying an MBM-12?

I just moved to the suburb of Philly and no lonAnyone interested in buying an MBM-12? I no longer have need of mine. It's in excellent condition barely used.
astrallite's Avatar astrallite
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Are these any good if you already something like a Velodyne DD-10 Plus and just using it for low/mid-level near-field listening with a pair of monitors?
truwarrior22's Avatar truwarrior22
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Anyone have a MBM for sale? I'm interested in trying one out.
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ
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There is a B-stock one in Hsu's clearance page at the moment.
Jahjd2000's Avatar Jahjd2000
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I have a placement question about the MBM-12. HSU suggests placing the MBM-12 nearfiled for tactile bass. However, since midbass is easier to localize isn't the tactile bass at the expense of increased localization? Curious how users have their set up.
jwtallguy's Avatar jwtallguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post

I have a placement question about the MBM-12. HSU suggests placing the MBM-12 nearfiled for tactile bass. However, since midbass is easier to localize isn't the tactile bass at the expense of increased localization? Curious how users have their set up.

From what I understand dual MBM's is suggested if you run up to 150 hertz to lower localization otherwise you'll have so issues that high of a XO, is what I was told at hsu
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ
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From what I have read, if you place a high crossed over sub directly behind you, there won't be localization. I have not tried that myself.
Tom C's Avatar Tom C
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Generally speaking, aren't you supposed to run the MBM from 50-80Hz and let the sub cover 50Hz and down? I would think that the only time you would run the MBM higher is if any of your speakers have to be crossed higher than 80 due to their limitations.
jwtallguy's Avatar jwtallguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

From what I have read, if you place a high crossed over sub directly behind you, there won't be localization. I have not tried that myself.

Could be, I didnt have that as an option when I was looking
vardo's Avatar vardo
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When I had my MBM12, I found that the best location was right behind me as ShadyJ
has read. No location at all.

vardo
WhskyTangoFoxtrt's Avatar WhskyTangoFoxtrt
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I have two MBM-12s with a bandpass of 50-80 Hz placed nearfield without any localization.
truwarrior22's Avatar truwarrior22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Generally speaking, aren't you supposed to run the MBM from 50-80Hz and let the sub cover 50Hz and down? I would think that the only time you would run the MBM higher is if any of your speakers have to be crossed higher than 80 due to their limitations.

I think users with higher crossover (110-150hz) due to the limitations of the speaker would actually benefit the most from the MBM/Subwoofer combo, especially for music. There's a lot of content between 80 and 150hz. My HGS-18 does seems to break up a little bit past 100hz, so I think a MBM might make sense for me considering my mids crossover around 150hz.
truwarrior22's Avatar truwarrior22
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Anyone using a MBM for Definitive Technology bipolar powered towers? Curious how it's working out? cool.gif
sevenz's Avatar sevenz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post

I have a placement question about the MBM-12. HSU suggests placing the MBM-12 nearfiled for tactile bass. However, since midbass is easier to localize isn't the tactile bass at the expense of increased localization? Curious how users have their set up.

I have a MBM and a 15" Rythmik.

My experience is that I've tried placing the MBM both near and far field in my room (7.5m x 4m), and compare + measure. In my room, in a relative sense, I could more easily localize the MBM if i placed it nearfield and a higher crossover on my AVR's. When MBM was placed farfield next to my fronts, I could not localize the sub even at higher AVR xovers, and surprisingly, find the bass more well integrated as a whole with my speakers and 15" sub. I believe some members (is it bsoko?) also had the same experience. But again, it may be due to the room.....
UofAZ1's Avatar UofAZ1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Anyone using a MBM for Definitive Technology bipolar powered towers? Curious how it's working out? cool.gif

Truwarrior Im actually using the powered woofers in my BP7001's as MBM. I found when my towers were set to Large the bass goot too boomy and bloated sounding, so by setting them to Small with a 40Hz crossover to my SVS sub that the towers bass sharpened rightup and could play louder and cleaner. The built in woofers were now acting as mid bass modules and helped fill the room with bass you could hear while the SVS handled bass below 40Hz that I could feel. if you have a good outboard sub this is how I would set it up and if you don't have a sub use the money you were going to on a great sub and not a MBM and use the built in tower woofers as your MBM's. Worked for me.
truwarrior22's Avatar truwarrior22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Truwarrior Im actually using the powered woofers in my BP7001's as MBM. I found when my towers were set to Large the bass goot too boomy and bloated sounding, so by setting them to Small with a 40Hz crossover to my SVS sub that the towers bass sharpened rightup and could play louder and cleaner. The built in woofers were now acting as mid bass modules and helped fill the room with bass you could hear while the SVS handled bass below 40Hz that I could feel. if you have a good outboard sub this is how I would set it up and if you don't have a sub use the money you were going to on a great sub and not a MBM and use the built in tower woofers as your MBM's. Worked for me.

Uofaz1,

Do you have any measurements of the subs in the 7001? I don't think the 14" drivers in the 7000s would make good midbass. I posted a measurement of the bp7000sc in the def tech forum. The high roll off is very steep. Does produce much above 80hz.
truwarrior22's Avatar truwarrior22
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Mk1 sealed from HSU vs MBM-12 mk2 sealed via port plug, are they the same sonically?
sdrucker's Avatar sdrucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Uofaz1,

Do you have any measurements of the subs in the 7001? I don't think the 14" drivers in the 7000s would make good midbass. I posted a measurement of the bp7000sc in the def tech forum. The high roll off is very steep. Does produce much above 80hz.
This is a relatively old post, but when I had DefTech Mythos ST as mains, I tried running them with a crossover of 60 Hz with Audyssey XT32 (I actually got 40 Hz as a recommended crossover with Audyssey Pro, and raised the crossover filters to either 60 or 80 Hz). The Mythos line has powered built-in woofers, similar to the 7001, but they're not bipolar speakers.

I found that while the frequency response was slightly smoother in that area on REW measurements, it was at the cost of greater bass ringing. When I ran REW spectrograms, a plot with a 60 Hz crossover vs. a higher one gave me measured bass decay over 450 ms, which was lower (closer to 400 ms) when I had a 80 Hz crossover, which was high a crossover as I could go with the Pro kit. Replacing the DefTech speakers with PSB Imagine T2 removed this effect altogether, with the ringing in the 60 to 80 Hz region at a much lower 300 ms level and better replication of the mid to upper bass on my multichannel music test material, to the extent that we can trust a "sighted" test.

I don't know for sure, but my hypothesis is that that bass radiators take advantage of harmonics, i.e. bass at lower frequencies helping to strengthen bass at higher frequencies. Thus there may be a muddiness with trying to reproduce the lower bass that has adverse effects at higher frequencies, as the speakers still have bass below the crossover being reproduced, and the harmonic may create a ripple effect. I can't prove it, but I suspect that with a lower crossover, there's more of a "mud" factor. But you wouldn't know - or care - unless you're a measuring type.

Since I have a MiniDSP with available output channels, I've occasionally thought about picking up a MBM module to see if I can get smoother bass FR in the 50 to 100 Hz region on the summated sub response, while still getting an approximately 80 Hz - vs. a 200 Hz LOL - crossover for my mains and center to avoid localization. But I suspect that the thought experiment of testing near vs. far field would be fun, the actual improvement would be small, since I have my ULS-15s near field (either side of our sofa) already, and have limited flexibility about moving them.
isaac415's Avatar isaac415
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08-05-2014 | Posts: 71
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Anyone have one for sale in WA? I am interested... Thanks!
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac415 View Post
Anyone have one for sale in WA? I am interested... Thanks!
Look in the Classified section.
Skylinestar's Avatar Skylinestar
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Is there a maximum distance between a MBM and the main LCR?
As the bass goes quite high, which is directional, will the MBM play seamlessly with the LCR if there's a huge gap (example 5 feet) between them?
Attached: mbm.jpg (30.3 KB) 
sdrucker's Avatar sdrucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Is there a maximum distance between a MBM and the main LCR?
As the bass goes quite high, which is directional, will the MBM play seamlessly with the LCR if there's a huge gap (example 5 feet) between them?
If you have measuring tools like or REW or OmniMic, you can try the MBM both near field and closer to the LCR and compare. That's what I'd do. In fact I'd personally not position the MBM at all without comparing the summated sub FR response before and after using the MBM (in various positions).


Otherwise, without being able to trace where the crossover adjustment to your true subs is taking you, it's going to be difficult to see how (or if) the MBM is helping you. You're just relying on your ears .
Skylinestar's Avatar Skylinestar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
If you have measuring tools like or REW or OmniMic, you can try the MBM both near field and closer to the LCR and compare. That's what I'd do. In fact I'd personally not position the MBM at all without comparing the summated sub FR response before and after using the MBM (in various positions).


Otherwise, without being able to trace where the crossover adjustment to your true subs is taking you, it's going to be difficult to see how (or if) the MBM is helping you. You're just relying on your ears .
I think you misunderstood. I'm not referring to the integration of mbm and sub. I'm referring to the integration of mbm+mains. If I'm not wrong, an HF element (tweeter) cannot be placed far from an LF element (woofer)...and that varies with the listening distance.
lefthandluke's Avatar lefthandluke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
I think you misunderstood. I'm not referring to the integration of mbm and sub. I'm referring to the integration of mbm+mains. If I'm not wrong, an HF element (tweeter) cannot be placed far from an LF element (woofer)...and that varies with the listening distance.

i found that, in my room, my mbms integrate much better when placed next to my mains...each within six in. of the main speaker.

in fact i now split my L/R preouts and run a cable to the corresponding L/R placed mbm (do not use the LFE)...the blend is seamless
BB1111's Avatar BB1111
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If anyone is selling a MBM-12, please PM me.
WhskyTangoFoxtrt's Avatar WhskyTangoFoxtrt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post
If anyone is selling a MBM-12, please PM me.
There is a B-stock MBM available @ Hsu Clearance Center.
Tags: Hsu Vtf3 Mk4 , Hsu Research Hc 1 Mk2 , Hsu Research Uls 15 Subwoofer

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