OFFICIAL Hsu MBM-12 thread - Page 19 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 550 Old 05-24-2015, 01:05 PM
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Lol, you're a lucky guy!

I think another VTF3 would be better, and may have more mid bass output too, but the MBM should be good, and you can just send it back without too much expense if it doesn't quite do the trick. I would ask Hsu how they would compare in this situation.
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post #542 of 550 Old 05-24-2015, 02:20 PM
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OMG that's a cramped space. I see your problem. Too bad you couldn't put 1 by the right speaker, and the other by the SR speaker. Front and back, yeeha.

Could you put them opposite each other by SR and SL? Still 180ΒΊ from each other, and near field (close to LP).

I'm going to draw some fire here and say that a THIRD huge sub in that space is just obscene. Shouldn't need it.

Did you say you have your mains set SMALL in the AVR and have bass management sending X < 80Hz to the subs equally? Maybe set the cross over to 120Hz so the mains can breath a little and those Abrams tank subs can do some booming for them.

Some quick links for reading:

http://www.audioholics.com/home-thea...ent-guidelines

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...-part-1-page-6

A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.


Last edited by ChromeJob; 05-24-2015 at 02:29 PM.
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post #543 of 550 Old 05-24-2015, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
Lol, you're a lucky guy!

I think another VTF3 would be better, and may have more mid bass output too, but the MBM should be good, and you can just send it back without too much expense if it doesn't quite do the trick. I would ask Hsu how they would compare in this situation.
When I was shopping, I was considering a VTF-1 and MBM-12 together (both on sale, woo-hoo) to take more bass off my Bose 401s. Kevin (Hsu) talked me out of it, said the single VTF-2 in my space would be fine, and if it wasn't, well then I could add another sub... later. He was right! The VTF-2 handles from 120Hz or 110Hz and down from the AVR, sounds great, freq sweeps from 10Hz - 200Hz are continuous and smooth (can't audibly tell where the cross over is).

A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.

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post #544 of 550 Old 05-25-2015, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
When I was shopping, I was considering a VTF-1 and MBM-12 together (both on sale, woo-hoo) to take more bass off my Bose 401s. Kevin (Hsu) talked me out of it, said the single VTF-2 in my space would be fine, and if it wasn't, well then I could add another sub... later. He was right! The VTF-2 handles from 120Hz or 110Hz and down from the AVR, sounds great, freq sweeps from 10Hz - 200Hz are continuous and smooth (can't audibly tell where the cross over is).
I'm pretty ignorant on audio still. I thought you didn't really want to crossover higher than 80hz unless your mains struggled that low. I do have a couple 5 db dips around the crossover point crossing at 80. The dips do go away when I cross at 120hz. Is 5db enough to merit crossing higher? I feel like crossing higher is somehow 'wasting' my mains potential. They go pretty low. Would you still recommend crossing at 120z? A picture of JUST my two mains (no subs) FR is below.



And yeah those two dips suck! I have no idea why that's there. Different toe-in has no affect.

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post #545 of 550 Old 05-25-2015, 12:14 PM
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Toe-in isn't going to effect bass that low. If it were me, I would do whatever it takes to get a flat response, including raising the crossover. Keep in mind that from reading your posts, it also doesn't sound like you want a flat response but elevated bass. An MBM would certainly shore up that dip between 70 - 120 Hz.
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post #546 of 550 Old 05-25-2015, 01:38 PM
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What he said ^. Somewhere on one of these threads here (the Yamaha *75 or *77 owners thread) I quote a couple of sources talking about how it improves efficiency and power management if you take away the burden of creating lower frequencies in the mains. Certainly, if you can remedy those dips, do it.

Someone remembered seeing the response curves for my 401 and there was unevenness even at 130Hz.
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A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.

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post #547 of 550 Old 05-25-2015, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
Toe-in isn't going to effect bass that low. If it were me, I would do whatever it takes to get a flat response, including raising the crossover. Keep in mind that from reading your posts, it also doesn't sound like you want a flat response but elevated bass. An MBM would certainly shore up that dip between 70 - 120 Hz.
Ok thanks, I switched to 120hz and went back and forth between that and 80hz on some movies.. The 80hz sounds better. I can hear certain details better on surround sounds.

I shall order the MBM and see what happens. I think I'll add it in the chain after Audyssey so it's almost like a 'double bass' for 50-80 HZ.

My AVR has two sub outs with independent levels and controls (NOT internal y cable). If the sub output I hook it up to already has a 12 foot delay (because that's where it found the true sub), do I basically need to add the distance it is from that same true sub in the AVR?
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Last edited by DaveyMac; 05-25-2015 at 02:51 PM.
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post #548 of 550 Old 05-25-2015, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post
Hi dimetera,

Quote:Originally Posted by dimetera413

So let me get this straight. I have a SVS PB12-NSD and if I were to get a MBM-12, how would the settings go. I have SVS SCS-01 fronts and rears that handle down to 60hz. SVS recommends setting the crossover on the reciever as 80hz(and they were right) and then disabling the xover switch on the PB12. Now would I have to just connect the MBM to my second sub output on my yamaha 663 (7.2) and then play with the levels on the MBM? Or would I have to mess with the reciever xover settings? or both?


Set the crossover frequency on your receiver to 80Hz for all channels. On the MBM, set the crossover switch to 'Out' (which bypasses the internal crossover on the MBM). On your true subwoofer, engage the internal crossover and set the crossover knob to ~ 50Hz.

You can connect the MBM to one sub pre-out on the receiver, and the true sub to the second sub pre-out on the receiver. Presumably each sub pre-out sends the exact same output signal, so both the MBM and the true sub will receive the same signal (the MBM will naturally roll off the lower frequencies sent to it, while the true sub crossover will roll off the higher frequencies sent to it).

On the receiver, set the subwoofer distance equal to the distance between the listening position and the MBM. Adjust the MBM volume knob so that the MBM level is in balance with the true subwoofer, and then adjust the subwoofer channel level on the receiver so that the combined MBM/true sub level is in balance with the mains.

Sincerely,
This is the money post!

Do you think it would be best to do all this and introduce the MBM AFTER Audyssey? Or level match MBM with true sub and then run Audyssey?
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post #549 of 550 Unread Yesterday, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I'm pretty ignorant on audio still. I thought you didn't really want to crossover higher than 80hz unless your mains struggled that low. I do have a couple 5 db dips around the crossover point crossing at 80. The dips do go away when I cross at 120hz. Is 5db enough to merit crossing higher? I feel like crossing higher is somehow 'wasting' my mains potential. They go pretty low. Would you still recommend crossing at 120z? A picture of JUST my two mains (no subs) FR is below.



And yeah those two dips suck! I have no idea why that's there. Different toe-in has no affect.

Sounds like a phase issue.
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post #550 of 550 Unread Today, 06:59 AM
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anyone wanting to sell an mbm mkII drop me a PM...

at the zenith of his nadir...
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Hsu Vtf3 Mk4 , Hsu Research Hc 1 Mk2 , Hsu Research Uls 15 Subwoofer

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