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post #181 of 480 Old 08-21-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a3plew View Post

How do you make graphs on the computer. I have done them manually on some notebook paper. Will excel work? I also have rew but have no clue how to use it, and my sound card and inputs don't work since i have vista now.

Mine was just done in Excel. I am waiting for some cables to be able to use REW. Excel is quick and easy.

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post #182 of 480 Old 08-21-2008, 07:50 PM
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still tweaking with the mbm-12 i just received. i crossed over my true sub at 50 hz with a FMOD and my receiver crossover is at 120 hz for now. haven't really done any calibration yet. i have a pretty good room acoustically but might need to redo a REW measurement since i replaced my furniture in the room (i used to have a huge swedish foam bed in there and now it's gone).

anyways (i ramble too much) . . . i love this sub. it's like having a buttkicker and more for midbass. gunshots, etc. pulsate my booty the whole chair shakes. and . . . this is what i am really starting to appreciate . . . my true sub sounds (or seems to sound) much better now that it only plays below 50 hz. gonna read the long post about calibration now.

i am one happy puppy right now. and i'm not the fanboy type. if i don't like something or don't think it has price/performance ratio, i'll say it. but this thing so far is great (even tho the first night i wasn't blown away by it but that was before i got the fmod)
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post #183 of 480 Old 08-21-2008, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post

still tweaking with the mbm-12 i just received. i crossed over my true sub at 50 hz with a FMOD and my receiver crossover is at 120 hz for now. haven't really done any calibration yet. i have a pretty good room acoustically but might need to redo a REW measurement since i replaced my furniture in the room (i used to have a huge swedish foam bed in there and now it's gone).

anyways (i ramble too much) . . . i love this sub. it's like having a buttkicker and more for midbass. gunshots, etc. pulsate my booty the whole chair shakes. and . . . this is what i am really starting to appreciate . . . my true sub sounds (or seems to sound) much better now that it only plays below 50 hz. gonna read the long post about calibration now.

i am one happy puppy right now. and i'm not the fanboy type. if i don't like something or don't think it has price/performance ratio, i'll say it. but this thing so far is great (even tho the first night i wasn't blown away by it but that was before i got the fmod)

Why did you use a Fmod on the true sub?

Bill
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post #184 of 480 Old 08-21-2008, 09:27 PM
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no internal xo (svs pb10)
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post #185 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 06:11 AM
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I moved my MBM-12's back up front with my mains and put the Velodynes in the bedroom. This seems to be the placement where they sound the best. I have the Conquests lowpass filters engaged at 50 Hz. The MBM's filters are bypassed. I ran all 4 through a Paradigm X-30 active subwoofer control. This gives me a simultaneous volume gain. Once the MBM's/Conquests levels were matched they were set to the same output as the main channels.
I use an anti-mode 8033 on the four and an 80 Hz lowpass in my controller.

I put my Audio Control Phase Coupled Activator in the system to blend in some subharmonics for fun. It generates 15-30 Hz subharmonics from a 30-70Hz sampling range. Once the subharmonics are added I dial the volume level back down to match the mains. I can switch it in or out of the system when wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

John - want to add a little more mid bass for those explosions and gun shots, helicopter blades rotating, etc. change the xover on the true sub to around 55-60hz. It does bring up the mid bass and ads to the depth of it.

Bill

Bill,

I will give that a try.



John
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post #186 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 06:36 AM
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that's one neat setup man. mine's a mess.

Mike C
MKC International
SVSound Philippine Dealer
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post #187 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 06:55 AM
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John,

Did you use more than one 8033 for the subs? If I remember correctly, you said you purchased a few.

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post #188 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ribbit View Post

that's one neat setup man. mine's a mess.

Thanks Mike,

I believed you asked if I thought my original ButtKicker setup was needed once I replaced my dual HGS-18's with the dual Conquests. The answer is yes "in my case". My Buttkickers add something the Conquests do not.

John
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post #189 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 12:16 PM
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I understand how to calibrate the MBM/True Sub using this method.

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpos...9&postcount=33

What about using the test CD that came with the MBM-12? Does that provide more of a fine tune? I would like to experiemnt with this method but need some clarification of the test proceedure. I split it up into 3 steps.

I asssume this is done with the lowpass implemented at 50 Hz on the True subwoofer and bypassed on the MBM. Are main speakers set to small and the standard 80 Hz lowpass used in the controller for this test?

"1) The test CD provided with the MBM-12 has warble tones from 16 Hz up to 200 Hz. Used with a Radio Shack SPL meter, you can fine
tune your system. Use C weighting and slow mode. The meter is down 12 dB at 16 Hz, 7 dB at 20 Hz, 4 dB at 25 Hz, and 2 dB at 31.5
Hz. Add these figures to your meter's readout to get true SPL.

2) Place the SPL meter at the listening chair and play the 63 Hz track. Adjust
for 75 dB reading on the SPL meter. Play the tones from the lower limit of your true subwoofer up to 200 Hz and write down the SPL numbers for each frequency. Add the corrections to the appropriate measured results.

3) Take the average of the numbers handled by each
of the system - true sub, MBM, and the main speakers. If the subwoofer's average is 5 dB higher than the main speakers, adjust the subwoofer
down by 5 dB (you do this by playing a 40 Hz tone, not the SPL reading, and then adjust the volume on the subwoofer to get the
meter to read 5 dB less)."

During step 2 is everything off except the true subwoofer?

During step 3 are you taking measurments of the True Subwoofer, MBM and Main speakers separately?

If needed you only adjust the level of True Subwoofer using a 40 Hz tone. You never touch the level of the MBM-12 module once it is set prior to fine tuning the system using the test CD?

Thank you,
John
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post #190 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weverb View Post

John,

Did you use more than one 8033 for the subs? If I remember correctly, you said you purchased a few.

weverb,

I am only using one 8033 on the duel MBM-12/Duel Conquests.

I did try to use individual 8033's on the built in powered subwoofer sections of my three front main channel speakers. And then try a 40 Hz lowpass in my controller. I currently do not have them connected and am using a 80 Hz lowpass.

John
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post #191 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John H View Post

weverb,

I am only using one 8033 on the duel MBM-12/Duel Conquests.

I did try to use individual 8033's on the built in powered subwoofer sections of my three front main channel speakers. And then try a 40 Hz lowpass in my controller. I currently do not have them connected and am using a 80 Hz lowpass.

John

Any plans for those extra 8033's?

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post #192 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 12:58 PM
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I'll take one 8033 as well.
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post #193 of 480 Old 08-23-2008, 01:53 PM
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watched a few blurays with lossless audio with teh MBM-12.

i am floored. cloverfield and die hard 4 for example: wow. the midbass is just awesome. the entire lfe situation in my room now feels like it's improved a gazzilion %. trucks go by and my seat vibrates. machine guns: i can feel, not just hear, them. absolutely awesome.

mbm-12 is behind my seat facing sideways. receiver crossover at 90 hz. still haven't really calibrated my subs yet.
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post #194 of 480 Old 08-24-2008, 01:39 PM
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Alright last day of vacation before I start class. I got my spl meter and used the d.i.y calibration disc to setup up my system as best as I could.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=742969

Ive attached my room response graph from excel. The d.i.y calibration disc has manual test tones from 1hzto120hz for the lfe chanell recorded at -20db. For calibration each channel was set to 85db. The disc said to calibrate the sub to 95db. I calibrated my true sub with the crossover set to out and set it to 95db on the newest radioshack digital spl meter. I then turned the true sub off and set the mbm-12 to 95db. Each noise for calibration was recorded at -20db. The manual test tone was -20db also. from 16hz to 20hz it increases by 1hz. But from 25hz to 80hz it increases by 5hz.
Reference for me is 60 out of 74 on my receiver. I ran all tones at volume 54/74. I moved the sub forward about one 1 from the left corner of the room to improve the dip around 50hz . Tell me what you guys think. Would a EQ help? thank you oh by the way should I lower the subs a few db's? calibrate to 93 or 92 or leave them at 95db? O yeah, I have not put the corrected numbers for the spl meter. I didn't know how much to add for the digital meter.

-Will
LL

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post #195 of 480 Old 08-24-2008, 04:06 PM
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Why are you calibrating at 90+ db? You should be calibrating at 75db or a couple of db higher if you want your sub hot. Is the rest of your system calibrated that high?
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post #196 of 480 Old 08-24-2008, 04:29 PM
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LOL I have a small room and listen at reference. The d.i.y test disc is -20db. so 115-20=95. lol If I use the reciever test tone its all even at 75db lol. I acutually have my sub now at 72db with the reciever test tone and 92db with the test disc so I thinks its fine. Plus 90+db is just right for me lol. Otherwise things get boring when running these tones over and over and readjusting.I dont run my sub hot. How many dbs should i set it at with the digital meter. Plus my fronts are 94db@1 watt effiecient and my rears are 90db@1watt. Room is about 15 feet long 11 feet wide and 8 feet high open to the dinning room equal in size.

Will
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post #197 of 480 Old 08-24-2008, 04:36 PM
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Everything on the d.i.y disc is -20 for calibration. so my fronts were set at 85db. my center at 85db. and my rears at 85db and the sub now is at 92db since it was -20 from reference. After calibrating I checked with the receiver test tone at the same volume and everything was 75 db but the sub was 72db.

Level trims for my fronts are even. The center is +2db and the rears are set -3db each from a scale of -10db to +10db. And the sub trim is set to -8db.

Will
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post #198 of 480 Old 08-25-2008, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John H View Post

I moved my MBM-12's back up front with my mains and put the Velodynes in the bedroom. This seems to be the placement where they sound the best. I have the Conquests lowpass filters engaged at 50 Hz. The MBM's filters are bypassed. I ran all 4 through a Paradigm X-30 active subwoofer control. This gives me a simultaneous volume gain. Once the MBM's/Conquests levels were matched they were set to the same output as the main channels.
I use an anti-mode 8033 on the four and an 80 Hz lowpass in my controller.

I put my Audio Control Phase Coupled Activator in the system to blend in some subharmonics for fun. It generates 15-30 Hz subharmonics from a 30-70Hz sampling range. Once the subharmonics are added I dial the volume level back down to match the mains. I can switch it in or out of the system when wanted.



Bill,

I will give that a try.



John

John - I have an X-30 controller coming soon. I got from a guy back east for 100. My idea is to set my receiver xover at 150 and run the controller at 120. I don't think that I'll miss much bass from 12- to 150? This way I can control all the volume on the two MBM's, two 3.3's, and one Dayton 15" sub. Once that I have my volume set on all, where do I start with the volume dial on the contoller?

Bill
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post #199 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 01:55 AM
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OK, so I am just coming up to speed with all this, so need a bit of help please.

My Current setup: Onkyo 705, Klipsch Quintet II, Hsu VTF-2. I would like my HD movies to have great effects, but also to have very clear, well defined bass in music. Yes, I want the world, and dont want to pay lots of $$$ for it :-)

I REALLY like the VTF I got (only had it for a week now), but it seems like Bass in the 75-150 range isnt what it could be. The room is probably 1500-1700 cu ft.

Im thinking my best 2 options are to either get a MBM, or to toss 2 of the Quintet speakers and get some floor standing speakers with real woofers.

So:

- What do people think is my best option?
- If I were to get an MBM, how would I connect it into my system (the onkyo has 1 and only 1 Sub out).

Is the value proposition for the MBM versus the VTF that the VTF is made for really low sound effects, whereas the MBM is more of a accuracy entity? I ask this because the VTF seems to be built to move lots of air, while the MBM seems to be "lighter on its feet".

Thanks for any suggestions, comments, opinions etc

Joe
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post #200 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdaigle View Post

OK, so I am just coming up to speed with all this, so need a bit of help please.

My Current setup: Onkyo 705, Klipsch Quintet II, Hsu VTF-2. I would like my HD movies to have great effects, but also to have very clear, well defined bass in music. Yes, I want the world, and dont want to pay lots of $$$ for it :-)

I REALLY like the VTF I got (only had it for a week now), but it seems like Bass in the 75-150 range isnt what it could be. The room is probably 1500-1700 cu ft.

Im thinking my best 2 options are to either get a MBM, or to toss 2 of the Quintet speakers and get some floor standing speakers with real woofers.

So:

- What do people think is my best option?
- If I were to get an MBM, how would I connect it into my system (the onkyo has 1 and only 1 Sub out).

Is the value proposition for the MBM versus the VTF that the VTF is made for really low sound effects, whereas the MBM is more of a accuracy entity? I ask this because the VTF seems to be built to move lots of air, while the MBM seems to be "lighter on its feet".

Thanks for any suggestions, comments, opinions etc

Joe

For HT I'd go with the MBM. It really does add some mid bass punch. As far as connection goes, you can buy an RCA Y SPLITTER and send the signal to both subs.
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post #201 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

John - I have an X-30 controller coming soon. I got from a guy back east for 100. My idea is to set my receiver xover at 150 and run the controller at 120. I don't think that I'll miss much bass from 12- to 150? This way I can control all the volume on the two MBM's, two 3.3's, and one Dayton 15" sub. Once that I have my volume set on all, where do I start with the volume dial on the contoller?

Bill

Hello Bill,

I didn't catch your post. Have you received your X-30?

I have the volume control on my X-30 set at the 9:00 o'clock position and my sub output in my controller at -8. I run the X-30's lowpass fully clockwise to it's highest positon and use the crossover in the processor. Paradigm doesn't offer a bypass. I set my volume levels on all my subwoofers to match with these settings. The X-30 doesn't have an on/off switch. It is signal sensing.

John
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post #202 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

For HT I'd go with the MBM. It really does add some mid bass punch.

How would you recommend he deal with the inevitable timing issue of using one sub nearfield and the other in a corner?
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post #203 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John H View Post

Hello Bill,

I didn't catch your post. Have you received your X-30?

I have the volume control on my X-30 set at the 9:00 o'clock position and my sub output in my controller at -8. I run the X-30's lowpass fully clockwise to it's highest positon and use the crossover in the processor. Paradigm doesn't offer a bypass. I set my volume levels on all my subwoofers to match with these settings. The X-30 doesn't have an on/off switch. It is signal sensing.

John

John -

X-30 comes on Tuesday.
By processor, do you mean reciever cross over?
My subs volumes are all set for reference with other speakers. On the sub cable, do I place the X-30 in after the 8033, and using your settings can I then adjust the X-30 volume up or down if needed? Or, do I have to reset all the subs volume for the X-30?

Bill
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post #204 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post

How would you recommend he deal with the inevitable timing issue of using one sub nearfield and the other in a corner?


I just set the distance in my receiver to be the middle of both my subs and MBM. I add the distance from the sweet spot to the MBM (nearfield) to the diatance from the sweet spot to my subs (farfield) then take the average. I don't notice any timing issues.
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post #205 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I just set the distance in my receiver to be the middle of both my subs and MBM. I add the distance from the sweet spot to the MBM (nearfield) to the diatance from the sweet spot to my subs (farfield) then take the average. I don't notice any timing issues.

Ditto!

Bill
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post #206 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

John -

X-30 comes on Tuesday.
By processor, do you mean reciever cross over?
My subs volumes are all set for reference with other speakers. On the sub cable, do I place the X-30 in after the 8033, and using your settings can I then adjust the X-30 volume up or down if needed? Or, do I have to reset all the subs volume for the X-30?

Bill

Bill,

Yes by processor I mean receiver or controller.

I have my X-30 before my 8033 in the signal chain.

Sub Out -> X-30 -> 8033 -> Subwoofers

Since you already have your subwoofers balanced I would just insert the X-30 into the chain with the volume level knob turned completely down counterclockwise. Crossover cutoff turned completely clockwise to it's highest setting and Phase control set to 0º. Phase control is only active through the top #1 subwoofer output on the rear of the X-30.

Turn your systems calibrating pink noise or test DVD's noise on and the power light should illuminate. Raise the volume on the X-30 slowly until your subwoofers are all set for reference with your other speakers again. Check the position of the X-30's volume control. I just like to have mine below 10:00 o'clock and the subwoofer level setting in the receiver in the negative range when everything is calibrated. Thats my preference.

John
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post #207 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I just set the distance in my receiver to be the middle of both my subs and MBM. I add the distance from the sweet spot to the MBM (nearfield) to the diatance from the sweet spot to my subs (farfield) then take the average. I don't notice any timing issues.

Same here.
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post #208 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John H View Post

Bill,

Yes by processor I mean receiver or controller.

I have my X-30 before my 8033 in the signal chain.

Sub Out -> X-30 -> 8033 -> Subwoofers

Since you already have your subwoofers balanced I would just insert the X-30 into the chain with the volume level knob turned completely down counterclockwise. Crossover cutoff turned completely clockwise to it's highest setting and Phase control set to 0º. Phase control is only active through the top #1 subwoofer output on the rear of the X-30.

Turn your systems calibrating pink noise or test DVD's noise on and the power light should illuminate. Raise the volume on the X-30 slowly until your subwoofers are all set for reference with your other speakers again. Check the position of the X-30's volume control. I just like to have mine below 10:00 o'clock and the subwoofer level setting in the receiver in the negative range when everything is calibrated. Thats my preference.

John

Thanks John, can't wait to get that puppy set up and running. Hey, if you are ever down here in the Olympia area, give me a call. I set up my gear by myself and never have had a second opinion on how I did. I'll pm you my address and phone.

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post #209 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I just set the distance in my receiver to be the middle of both my subs and MBM. I add the distance from the sweet spot to the MBM (nearfield) to the diatance from the sweet spot to my subs (farfield) then take the average. I don't notice any timing issues.

What does this accomplish? You now have incorrect distances for two subs rather than for just one.

For example, if your true sub is 9 feet away and the MBM is 1 foot away, using your method, the receiver is told that a 30hz sound is coming from 5 feet away, when in reality it is coming from 9 feet away, and the receiver is also told that a 60hz sound is coming from 5 feet away when in reality it is coming from 1 foot away.
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post #210 of 480 Old 09-01-2008, 05:33 PM
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In my setup, the sub is approx eight feet from sweet spot and the MBM is approx five so averaging is likely not as critical.
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