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post #451 of 6412 Old 11-11-2007, 04:24 PM
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Hey jedi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.night View Post

Peter,
Do you recommend crossing True sub at the same point as the MBM?

What I mean is that in my current setup I have my PC-Ultra cut at 50hz and then the MBM picks up at 50-80hz with my receiver crossing the mains at 80hz.

So Ultra is handling everything below 50hz , mbm 50-80 and mains 80 hz and up.

or
Should I allow the full range of the PC-ultra and and not cut it at all. except at the 80hz that my mains are crossed at?
That would mean the Ultra and MBM are both outputting at 50-80 hz or so.

FYI, the MBM is located nearfield behind my couch. The sub is in my front left corner. 9 ft from listening position.

Which would be better...

Thanks

I believe that the way you currently have it set up is correct. The idea is to relieve the true subwoofer of having to reproduce mid-bass, in addition to positioning the true subwoofer in a place that is ideal for reproducing deep bass (ie. front corner) while having mid-bass reproduced in the nearfield (for reduced room reflections, higher impact, and lower distortion in the mid-bass). You definitely don't want the true sub and MBM both reproducing mid-bass at different locations.

Sincerely,
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post #452 of 6412 Old 11-11-2007, 04:29 PM
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Hi audiofreak,

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post

Hello Hsu owners. I asked this question over on the Outlaw Audio forum and got some response. So, thought I would try it here as well. I am well aware that Dr. Hsu had a big hand so to speak in designing the Outlaw subs. With that said, I need to know just how the LFM-1 EX compares to the Hsu 3.3. I know that the LFM-1EX has dual 3" ports as opposed to the 3.3 having dual 4" ports. Further, I am also well aware that down low the 3.3 has more capability due to having larger ports. Other than that main specific advantage how do these two really compare? I am looking for a sub that is fisrt and foremost great with music. More specifically, I need tight, fast, punchy, well articulated and well defined bass that has excellent distinctness in the transient response. Still yet, I need a sub that will do a good job with ht BUT it does NOT have to play much lower than the lower 20's as far as I am concerned. I really could care less if it reaches below 20 Hz. Basically, which of these two will do a better job in max output mode with music? Lastly, I also am aware that the 3.3 is a side firing sub with rear ports whereas the LFM-1EX is down-firing with ports on the bottom. If I understand it the ports on the bottom help to reduce port chuffing. Once again, does this give the LFM-1 EX an advantage over the 3.3?? Does the down-firing design hold any advantages over the side-firing and vice versa? One thing I can NOT stand is port noise. Keep in mind my room is just a tad under 2000 ft.^3 with an opening to a small hall-way closet AND to my dining area. I did own the SVS PB10-NSD and the PB12-NSD and both sounded better placed in between my mains. However, both were good for ht I did not find them to be very musical. The PB10-NSD was better in that department but the PB12-NSD kicked butt down low. The problem is my preference is on musical performance and I still need decent ht performance as well. Just need a more musically capable sub. How would the LFM-1Plus compare to either of the LFM-1 EX/3.3? If you have owned OR are extremely familiar with both the Outlaw and Hsu offerings then by all means please chime in with what you know to be true. It would be most appreciated. Have a great day.

The LFM-1 EX is really nice. Compared to the VTF-3 Mk3, performance is similar, but with smaller ports. The nice thing about the EX is that it has downfiring driver and ports which makes it very kid-proof, and the downfiring ports can help to mask some port noise too. Also, the EX has a very nice plexiglass finish on the top of the subwoofer. Of course, if one wants to use turbo down the road, then the Mk3 will be good for that, but I would really only recommend running in extended bass mode if one plans to add MBM-12 at some point in the future. So you really can't go wrong either way.
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post #453 of 6412 Old 11-11-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

Hi audiofreak,



The LFM-1 EX is really nice. Compared to the VTF-3 Mk3, performance is similar, but with smaller ports. The nice thing about the EX is that it has downfiring driver and ports which makes it very kid-proof, and the downfiring ports can help to mask some port noise too. Also, the EX has a very nice plexiglass finish on the top of the subwoofer. Of course, if one wants to use turbo down the road, then the Mk3 will be good for that, but I would really only recommend running in extended bass mode if one plans to add MBM-12 at some point in the future. So you really can't go wrong either way.

Thanks Peter for your reply. I am NOT interested in the turbo and probably never will be. In fact, I plan on using a PEQ w/subsonic high pass filter set to at least 20-22 Hz or so. I know by doing so I will have to tame a few peaks due to the increased output of employing the subsonic filter. The PEQ I am looking at has (2) bands which hopefully will be enough to do so. I will more likely run the sub in MAX OUTPUT mode most if not all the time. My only other concern is "room" gain and how this will play a role in the transient response below 80 hz. Sounds like the EX or the Plus would also get me more of what I am wanting. However, the 3.3 being on sale sure is very tempting........LOL!!! Thanks Peter for your help. Feel free to offer more advice because it is needed.

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post #454 of 6412 Old 11-11-2007, 08:39 PM
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audiofreak, I'm quite sure you will be very pleased with the VTF-3 Mk3 or the LFM-1 EX. Note that the VTF-3 Mk3 and EX have much higher mid/upper bass headroom compared to deep bass headroom before the onset of output compression, so if anything room gain could help to flatten out the response at increasing SPL levels. Hope this helps!
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post #455 of 6412 Old 11-12-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

audiofreak, I'm quite sure you will be very pleased with the VTF-3 Mk3 or the LFM-1 EX. Note that the VTF-3 Mk3 and EX have much higher mid/upper bass headroom compared to deep bass headroom before the onset of output compression, so if anything room gain could help to flatten out the response at increasing SPL levels. Hope this helps!

Ummmmm.......I am a bit confused here. Peter would you mind to explain this to me? I understand that if I engage say a 20 Hz subsonic/high pass filter on either the 3.3/EX that would cause a rise in the frequency response above 20 Hz. With typical room gain that will also cause a bit of a rise on the over-all frequency reponse. As such, chances are I will have a peak or two for that matter that needs to be tamed. So, how would room gain help to flatten frequency response? This is so interesting and I am always attempting to learn more. The PEQ I am looking at has (2) bands 10-50 Hz and 50-100 Hz if I remember correctly. Do you have another reccommendation?

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #456 of 6412 Old 11-12-2007, 01:45 PM
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I have 2 infinty ps212 subs in each corner. I plan to purchase the VTF-3 Mk3 and put it in one of the corners and stack the infinitys on top of each other. My room size is 22x14. Can someone give me an opinion on my suggested setup. Would this type of setup bring the house down with bass thumping precision? I primarly use my set for Home Theater.
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post #457 of 6412 Old 11-12-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

I have 2 infinty ps212 subs in each corner. I plan to purchase the VTF-3 Mk3 and put it in one of the corners and stack the infinitys on top of each other. My room size is 22x14. Can someone give me an opinion on my suggested setup. Would this type of setup bring the house down with bass thumping precision? I primarly use my set for Home Theater.


Whoaa! I like bass a lot and have one VTF 3.3. My room is slightly smaller than yours, 18x14. I have the VTF 3.3 set at only 25-30% volume and it is running a few decibels hotter than my other speakers. I cannot imagine having more subwoofers than that in a room your size without extreme amount of distortion drowning out the other speakers. To each his ownm but I am just not seeing it. My house is only 1500 sq ft and on a movie like 300 with PCM the whole house shakes and shakes a lot. Seriously, not unlike a 5.5 earthquake I got to experience once.
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post #458 of 6412 Old 11-12-2007, 09:08 PM
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Hello Hsu afficionados. Today was the big day. After months of research, but no actual listening, I drove to Hsu's facility in Anaheim and bought me a VTF 3.3. My first subwoofer. While I was there I saw some 3.3's with different veneers -- rosewood and mahogany-dark wood -- not yet available, and had a brief talk with one of the techs. He said they'll have some new products at the upcoming CES show in Vegas. The tech helped me load the 3.3 into my wife's Pilot and I drove it home. About an hour later I wheeled it into the house on a dolly, extracted it from the box inside a box and pushed my new Hsu behind the couch. I had the wiring all ready (new construction - I had the low voltage guy run the necessary cables) and hooked that bad boy up. I let the Yamaha receiver auto setup, but it set the crossover at 120 Hz, so I followed the tech's suggestion and set the crossover at 80 Hz. I had a copy of Finding Nemo handy so me and the girls sat down to watch the scene where Darla taps on the fish tank. HOLY CRAP!!! It was CRAZY!! This thing is a MONSTER!!! The audio was AMAZING! We all started smiling like fiends -- BASS fiends. I had to watch the scene about three times. It was unreal! I've never experienced anything like it. What a kick! This thing is GREAT! When I calmed down I put on some music - Richard Thompson, Take Care the Road You Choose, with some beautiful upright bass under the famous Thompson guitar riffs and it sounded beautiful. I had the receiver send all the bass to the sub and I guess that helped the Polk LC265i's and LC80i's create a fuller sound stage because my surround system has never sounded so sweet, so musical. Crisp, clean, tight bass, clear vocals and fabulous guitar. Thank you Dr. Hsu. I can't wait to watch more movies with the kids. Thinking about a 3.3? I'm sure happy with mine.
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post #459 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 05:38 AM
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Good choice, glad you enjoyed it, now it is time to go and re-watch some of your favorite movies, especially those with nice bass scenes.

If you have War of the Worlds, pop in the pods emerge scene and see (feel) what your new toy can REALLY do. Oh yeah hold on to something
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post #460 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

audiofreak, I'm quite sure you will be very pleased with the VTF-3 Mk3 or the LFM-1 EX. Note that the VTF-3 Mk3 and EX have much higher mid/upper bass headroom compared to deep bass headroom before the onset of output compression, so if anything room gain could help to flatten out the response at increasing SPL levels. Hope this helps!

Can anybody else chime in here? I guess Peter has been very busy. Still a bit confused regarding how room gain would work to smooth or flatten frequency response. I just love learning as much as I can about all things audio.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #461 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.night View Post

Peter,
Do you recommend crossing True sub at the same point as the MBM?

What I mean is that in my current setup I have my PC-Ultra cut at 50hz and then the MBM picks up at 50-80hz with my receiver crossing the mains at 80hz.

So Ultra is handling everything below 50hz , mbm 50-80 and mains 80 hz and up.

I use a crossover of 120Hz.

I have Atlantic Technology System 170 speakers. My speakers are rated to 90Hz, but both reviews and testing with Room Equalization Wizard (REW) show output dropping at about 100Hz. Since I wanted a higher crossover than 100Hz so that I wouldn't drive the speakers all the way to their maximum extension, I decided to purchase the MBM-12 (this isn't the only reason I purchased it ). Since the MBM-12 also relieves the subwoofer of playing higher frequencies, I purchased the VTF 2.3 instead of a more powerful model.

I tested various cutoffs from 150Hz to 90Hz and found that I liked 120Hz and could not localize the MBM-12 at that frequency. I use a Behringer DCX2496 to provide crossovers and delay for the MBM-12 and VTF-2.3.

As an experiment, I turned off the sub and listened to the speakers with different crossover settings. The higher the crossover, the better the speakers sounded. In the article, Miscellaneous Ramblings on Subwoofer Crossover Frequencies I found the reason why my speakers sounded better: less output was required for the same SPL. Here is a brief summary of the article:

Benefits of higher crossover points
Less output is demanded for the same SPL by both amplifiers and speakers resulting in less distortion, less compression, and greater dynamics.
The LFE channel can contain information up to 120Hz that can get lost with a lower crossover point.
More consistent frequency response between channels.
Since the sub (or MBM-12) is producing a greater frequency range, it is easier to control room interaction through equalization.

The Detection of Subwoofer Depending on Crossover Frequency
I also found a convention paper for the Audio Engineering Society about the detection of subwoofer depending on crossover frequency. The study found that a crossover of ~120Hz seemed to be the highest you could go before localization with most of their test sounds. They tested 30 crossover frequencies between 55 and 227Hz. It is interesting to note that "the selected crossover frequency range was not wide enough for half of the listeners, as at some cases they did not detect the difference between reference and split signal even at the highest crossover frequency value."

Localization Below 120Hz
If you are experiencing localization below 120Hz, there are a few things you could check.
Have you level matched your sub/MBM-12 with the speakers? If your sub/MBM-12 level is too high, they will be easier to localize.
If you are using the MBM-12, do you have a method of setting its delay if it is closer than your mains? If your delay is off, the MBM-12 is easier to localize.
You might just have very good ears. Try putting cotton in them.
(Note: I also posted the above at HSU's forum back in August.)
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post #462 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 06:25 PM
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[quote=Porquoe;12200460]Hello Hsu afficionados. Today was the big day. After months of research, but no actual listening, I drove to Hsu's facility in Anaheim and bought me a VTF 3.3. My first subwoofer. While I was there I saw some 3.3's with different veneers -- rosewood and mahogany-dark wood -- not yet available, and had a brief talk with one of the techs. He said they'll have some new products at the upcoming CES show in Vegas. QUOTE]



funny, i bought mine in February of this year and i saw the same 2 finishes on an HO with turbo...it was in the little listening room to the left of the front door...im surprised they arent selling those yet...i really liked the dark finish
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post #463 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 07:50 PM
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Hi af,

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post

Ummmmm.......I am a bit confused here. Peter would you mind to explain this to me? I understand that if I engage say a 20 Hz subsonic/high pass filter on either the 3.3/EX that would cause a rise in the frequency response above 20 Hz. With typical room gain that will also cause a bit of a rise on the over-all frequency reponse. As such, chances are I will have a peak or two for that matter that needs to be tamed. So, how would room gain help to flatten frequency response? This is so interesting and I am always attempting to learn more. The PEQ I am looking at has (2) bands 10-50 Hz and 50-100 Hz if I remember correctly. Do you have another reccommendation?

Note that the VTF-3 Mk3 and LFM-1 EX use subsonic filters in both tuning modes (max output mode and extended bass mode) to help filter out the bass that can cause damage to the subwoofer. This in itself doesn't distort the frequency response. It is true that in some rooms, a subwoofer that has a flat response measured outside can have a rising response in-room due to room gain, but that would depend totally on room characteristics and placement position in-room. I don't consider it a significant issue on the VTF-3 Mk3 because the mid/upper bass output is stronger than the lower bass output when the subwoofer is driven to higher and higher output levels, so in-room the -3 Mk3 shouldn't be deep bass heavy when pushed to higher and higher output levels. Regarding the PEQ, it's fine to use something like that to tame some peaks in the response.

My apologies for the belated response!

Sincerely,
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post #464 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 07:53 PM
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Hi bori,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

I have 2 infinty ps212 subs in each corner. I plan to purchase the VTF-3 Mk3 and put it in one of the corners and stack the infinitys on top of each other. My room size is 22x14. Can someone give me an opinion on my suggested setup. Would this type of setup bring the house down with bass thumping precision? I primarly use my set for Home Theater.

Would you be able to post a rough sketch of your room layout?

Thanks
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post #465 of 6412 Old 11-13-2007, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porquoe View Post

Hello Hsu afficionados. Today was the big day. After months of research, but no actual listening, I drove to Hsu's facility in Anaheim and bought me a VTF 3.3. My first subwoofer. While I was there I saw some 3.3's with different veneers -- rosewood and mahogany-dark wood -- not yet available, and had a brief talk with one of the techs. He said they'll have some new products at the upcoming CES show in Vegas. The tech helped me load the 3.3 into my wife's Pilot and I drove it home. About an hour later I wheeled it into the house on a dolly, extracted it from the box inside a box and pushed my new Hsu behind the couch. I had the wiring all ready (new construction - I had the low voltage guy run the necessary cables) and hooked that bad boy up. I let the Yamaha receiver auto setup, but it set the crossover at 120 Hz, so I followed the tech's suggestion and set the crossover at 80 Hz. I had a copy of Finding Nemo handy so me and the girls sat down to watch the scene where Darla taps on the fish tank. HOLY CRAP!!! It was CRAZY!! This thing is a MONSTER!!! The audio was AMAZING! We all started smiling like fiends -- BASS fiends. I had to watch the scene about three times. It was unreal! I've never experienced anything like it. What a kick! This thing is GREAT! When I calmed down I put on some music - Richard Thompson, Take Care the Road You Choose, with some beautiful upright bass under the famous Thompson guitar riffs and it sounded beautiful. I had the receiver send all the bass to the sub and I guess that helped the Polk LC265i's and LC80i's create a fuller sound stage because my surround system has never sounded so sweet, so musical. Crisp, clean, tight bass, clear vocals and fabulous guitar. Thank you Dr. Hsu. I can't wait to watch more movies with the kids. Thinking about a 3.3? I'm sure happy with mine.

Muchas gracias amigo!
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post #466 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

Hi af,



Note that the VTF-3 Mk3 and LFM-1 EX use subsonic filters in both tuning modes (max output mode and extended bass mode) to help filter out the bass that can cause damage to the subwoofer. This in itself doesn't distort the frequency response. It is true that in some rooms, a subwoofer that has a flat response measured outside can have a rising response in-room due to room gain, but that would depend totally on room characteristics and placement position in-room. I don't consider it a significant issue on the VTF-3 Mk3 because the mid/upper bass output is stronger than the lower bass output when the subwoofer is driven to higher and higher output levels, so in-room the -3 Mk3 shouldn't be deep bass heavy when pushed to higher and higher output levels. Regarding the PEQ, it's fine to use something like that to tame some peaks in the response.

My apologies for the belated response!

Sincerely,

Awesome Peter-thanks for the info. I am begininng to understand more of what I am looking for. Have a great day.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #467 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 10:13 AM
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Hello,

-What are the placement considerations for VTF-3 MK3? Since the driver is on the side, and the ports in the back.... how much distance should one have between the wall/driver and wall/ports?
-Do these distances give you more flexibility in tuning than a LFM-1 EX since the distances are fixed for LFM-1 EX by downfiring.
-What are the advantages/disadvantages of the 2 designs with different driver and port placements and port sizes? (between LFM1 EX and VTF3 MK3)
-Is it better to place the VTF3 sideways and let the driver face the listening position for close placement?
-LFM-1 Plus and the EX look the same except cabinet size/pressure. EX is able to extend lower but would that come with a little trade-off affecting the SQ for music if every other part is the same?

Thank you
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post #468 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

Hi bori,



Would you be able to post a rough sketch of your room layout?

Thanks

The room is rectangular shaped with the speaker and tv set the long way. 22x14.
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post #469 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 05:50 PM
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Hello TVB!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrebleVsBass View Post

Hello,

-What are the placement considerations for VTF-3 MK3? Since the driver is on the side, and the ports in the back.... how much distance should one have between the wall/driver and wall/ports?
-Do these distances give you more flexibility in tuning than a LFM-1 EX since the distances are fixed for LFM-1 EX by downfiring.
-What are the advantages/disadvantages of the 2 designs with different driver and port placements and port sizes? (between LFM1 EX and VTF3 MK3)
-Is it better to place the VTF3 sideways and let the driver face the listening position for close placement?
-LFM-1 Plus and the EX look the same except cabinet size/pressure. EX is able to extend lower but would that come with a little trade-off affecting the SQ for music if every other part is the same?

Thank you

Try to give at least 1-2" of spacing in between driver and any surface next to it, and at least 3-4" of spacing between the ports and any surface next to it.

I don't think driver/port orientation would necessarily make a huge difference in-room, but the one advantage of the EX is that it is more kid-proof with down-firing driver and ports. Also, downfiring driver can be a bit less directional if the subwoofer is crossed over relatively high (say, above 90Hz). The down-firing port design can also help mask audible port noise. The Mk3 does have larger ports though which helps reduce output compression and port noise near port tuning. It's not necessarily better to have the -3 Mk3 sideways with driver firing forward vs driver firing to the side. I suppose one could experiment and choose what works best for them. However, in the nearfield placement behind the couch, I would generally recommend having the driver fire directly into the couch with a couple inches of spacing in between.

The EX should sound at least as good as the LFM-1+ above 25-30Hz. Below that range of frequencies, the EX will be noticeably stronger. Note that with both ports open on EX and Plus, the EX will have deeper extension and stronger deep bass output.
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post #470 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

Hello TVB!



Try to give at least 1-2" of spacing in between driver and any surface next to it, and at least 3-4" of spacing between the ports and any surface next to it.

I don't think driver/port orientation would necessarily make a huge difference in-room, but the one advantage of the EX is that it is more kid-proof with down-firing driver and ports. Also, downfiring driver can be a bit less directional if the subwoofer is crossed over relatively high (say, above 90Hz). The down-firing port design can also help mask audible port noise. The Mk3 does have larger ports though which helps reduce output compression and port noise near port tuning. It's not necessarily better to have the -3 Mk3 sideways with driver firing forward vs driver firing to the side. I suppose one could experiment and choose what works best for them. However, in the nearfield placement behind the couch, I would generally recommend having the driver fire directly into the couch with a couple inches of spacing in between.

The EX should sound at least as good as the LFM-1+ above 25-30Hz. Below that range of frequencies, the EX will be noticeably stronger. Note that with both ports open on EX and Plus, the EX will have deeper extension and stronger deep bass output.

Gosh Peter this is good stuff my friend. Kinda helps answer a few of the millions of questions I have been asking you lately. It is much appreciated.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #471 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 07:00 PM
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What would we do with you Peter? Very informative!
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post #472 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

The room is rectangular shaped with the speaker and tv set the long way. 22x14.

In that case, I would probably be inclined to put the VTF-3 Mk3 in the nearfield position. Your room is nice and deep, so you should get very good results using the deep bass subwoofer placed in the nearfield couch or corner.
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post #473 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post

Gosh Peter this is good stuff my friend. Kinda helps answer a few of the millions of questions I have been asking you lately. It is much appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrock66 View Post

What would we do with you Peter? Very informative!

All the thanks goes to you guys for asking good questions! Feel free to fire away at any time, day or night, Monday through Sunday, and I'll try to be there for you.
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post #474 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 10:14 PM
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Peter -

I'm considering adding a MBM to my HSU HO w turbo. Check out my crappy sketch of my HT. My main reason for doing this is that while the HO is great I'm looking for a little more punch in the chest which I think the MBM would help with.

Originally I was thinking of co-locating the MBM by the HO where the chair is now. The HO is 8.5 feet from the seating position and the MBM would be 6.5 feet.

Feedback from a couple MBM owners is to place it behind the seating (there is room for it) and I would get the best response.

My three questions are :

A) Would having the two subs so far apart cause any kind of phase or timing issues?
B) Do you think I would be able to localize the sub being so close and apart from the other speakers if I crossed to the MBM at 80 and then to the HO at 50 where the MBM naturally rolls off.
C) Does HSU have any kind of discount for current HSU owners who purchase a MBM? I seem to remember hearing something about this on your forums but ... maybe not?

Thanks
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post #475 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 10:48 PM
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Mucho Gusto MUCHO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUCHO View Post

Peter -

I'm considering adding a MBM to my HSU HO w turbo. Check out my crappy sketch of my HT. My main reason for doing this is that while the HO is great I'm looking for a little more punch in the chest which I think the MBM would help with.

Originally I was thinking of co-locating the MBM by the HO where the chair is now. The HO is 8.5 feet from the seating position and the MBM would be 6.5 feet.

Feedback from a couple MBM owners is to place it behind the seating (there is room for it) and I would get the best response.

My three questions are :

A) Would having the two subs so far apart cause any kind of phase or timing issues?
B) Do you think I would be able to localize the sub being so close and apart from the other speakers if I crossed to the MBM at 80 and then to the HO at 50 where the MBM naturally rolls off.
C) Does HSU have any kind of discount for current HSU owners who purchase a MBM? I seem to remember hearing something about this on your forums but ... maybe not?

Thanks

I don't see any sketch or attached file, but regardless, I'll take a stab at these questions.

Let me start by saying that anyone who is using the Turbo models really doesn't know what they are missing if they haven't tried out MBM-12 in their system! The increase in system performance for both music and movies is huge, and a real eye-opener for most people.

From my experience, phase/timing issues is not a huge concern even with the deep bass sub and MBM in separate locations. I think that the benefits from using MBM simply far outweigh any potential phasing issues. That said, one can always get a digital delay device to time align the MBM with respect to the true subwoofer if they wish. One example of that would be the Behringer DSP2024P (available at American Musical Supply online for $100), or for more advanced features one could use something like Behringer DCX2496.

I don't think you would be able to localize the MBM placed in the nearfield with crossover set to 80Hz. Only if the crossover is set above 90Hz would it be likely to be localizeable in the nearfield. And regarding discount, yes, there is a $50 discount on MBM for existing Hsu customers.

For placement, I would put the MBM-12 sideways directly behind the couch, with the VTF-3 HO/t in the front corner.

I really hope you get a chance to try out MBM some day. Let me know how it goes!

Sincerely,
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Oops! Here it is. I do know what I'm missing - I used to have a SVS 20-39 PC+ sitting right next to me but I was able to localize it so easily I ended up putting it in the front corner but I miss that crushing chest throb.

 

Loft.zip 6.83203125k . file
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Very interesting, thanks MUCHO. I would put the MBM-12 sideways directly behind the recliner, and keep the VTF-3 HO/t up front where it is currently positioned (feel free to push the -3 HO/t as close to the back wall as possible). You shouldn't have any issues with localizing MBM-12 with an 80Hz crossover. Note that you will be optimally positioning for mid-bass in the nearfield, and deep bass in the farfield. In your room, this should really help mid-bass and deep bass performance. I think you are going to be quite happy with it.
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post #478 of 6412 Old 11-14-2007, 11:42 PM
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Thanks Peter - I appriciate it.

The HO is pushed as close to the front wall as I can get it. That diagonal line represents a 6 ft tall 4" wide base trap. I have the HO driver facing the wall about 3" away which I had read is the minimum distance I need. It is sitting on a subdude which really helped the vibrations of the walls (and therefore rattles).
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post #479 of 6412 Old 11-15-2007, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks View Post

In that case, I would probably be inclined to put the VTF-3 Mk3 in the nearfield position. Your room is nice and deep, so you should get very good results using the deep bass subwoofer placed in the nearfield couch or corner.


So Peter do you believe that the VTF-3 Mk3 will be able to work well together with the 2 Infinity PS-212? I like the punch the infinity subs have but, I want a sub that can extend below 20hz. This is the main reason I am considering buying this sub. I use my HT 99% of the time for movies not much music.
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post #480 of 6412 Old 11-15-2007, 08:44 AM
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Peter et al,

I'm having a lot of grief finding room for the VTF3.3 w/ Turbo . Before I finally order it, I want to be 100% that it will fit in a location that makes sense.

I did a sketch of the sub and placed in my HT "Sketch-It" drawing of my HT. Please let me now your thoughts about placement... Should I refrain from ordering it with the Turbo? I'm not sure I want to hear "No Turbo"

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

BR
LL
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