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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

G-star's Avatar G-star
05:58 PM Liked: 11
post #31 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 1,809
Joined: Nov 2005
let's see, you've calibrated with Avia and an SPL meter. with the settings you describe, and assuming your cross-over/speaker distance & settings are correct, there are really only three things that could realistically be happening:

1. your sitting in a huge null. try experimenting with placement. it will take some time, but if things still sound the same, you can eliminate that as a cause.

2. your expectations are are for a louder version of a boomy sub that emphasizes 50-80Hz bass. Hsu subs are flat, so forget about hearing it "thump" noticeably. it should disappear into the soundstage, making everything sound more rich, full, and authoritatively deep.

3. you spend too much time reading these forums, and expect it to be an earth-mover in a box. j/k, but realize that hyperbole flows freely around here.

hope you figure this one out. you've got a great sub by all accounts on your hands.
sethhobrin's Avatar sethhobrin
06:04 PM Liked: 10
post #32 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 862
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-star View Post

let's see, you've calibrated with Avia and an SPL meter. with the settings you describe, and assuming your cross-over/speaker distance & settings are correct, there are really only three things that could realistically be happening:

1. your sitting in a huge null. try experimenting with placement. it will take some time, but if things still sound the same, you can eliminate that as a cause.

2. your expectations are are for a louder version of a boomy sub that emphasizes 50-80Hz bass. Hsu subs are flat, so forget about hearing it "thump" noticeably. it should disappear into the soundstage, making everything sound more rich, full, and authoritatively deep.

3. you spend too much time reading these forums, and expect it to be an earth-mover in a box. j/k, but realize that hyperbole flows freely around here.

hope you figure this one out. you've got a great sub by all accounts on your hands.

You know what I think you might have just hit the nail on the head with all 3 of these points. Honestly it doesn't FEEL broken. Its just not as loud as I expected but it does dissappear into the soundstage making everything sound more rich, full and deep.

I have never had a HT sub just car subs so maybe I was just expecting something different.
cyberbri's Avatar cyberbri
06:10 PM Liked: 53
post #33 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 8,095
Joined: May 2004
I said most of that on the last page. Oh well.
Echomalinois's Avatar Echomalinois
08:00 PM Liked: 10
post #34 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 137
Joined: Jun 2006
A ht sub is nothing like a car audio sub. It takes a while to get used to not having any thing but bass. I have had my HSU for about 2 months and just realized how hot I had it running, maybe 8-12db to hot . I have just recently backed it down to about 3db hot. Once you get this figured out you should love it.

Hey Cyberbi, how hard is the BFD to set up and use? Have been thinking about adding it, just not sure if it will be worth it. Sorry to go off topic.
cyberbri's Avatar cyberbri
10:43 PM Liked: 53
post #35 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 8,095
Joined: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echomalinois View Post

Hey Cyberbi, how hard is the BFD to set up and use? Have been thinking about adding it, just not sure if it will be worth it. Sorry to go off topic.

Are you good with computers and electronics? If you are technically inclined, it's pretty easy. If you have one or two peaks you just want to cut, you can easily find them with the Avia sweeps and experiment a few times and knock them down. Otherwise, or if you want a very flat response (or a tailored house curve), I highly suggest taking the time to set up the free program Room EQ Wizard on your computer. You'll need an SPL meter, tripod, and cables to hook it up to the computer and the computer up to your sub and/or receiver. Anyway, Room EQ Wizard lets you take instant (about 10 second) sweeps and graphs the response instantly. Very good for experimenting with placement, phase, eq filters, etc. It will also suggest BFD filters to achieve a desired SPL and predict the results of the filters. You can even try out REW to see if you need a BFD, and experiment with placement, etc. before you do anything else.

Head over to www.hometheatershack.com if you are interested in a BFD or REW.

Otherwise, something like the SMS-1 comes with a mic and software with an OSD straight to your TV to measure and adjust filters in real-time. But it's about $700, compared to the BFD for $100.
Hughmc's Avatar Hughmc
11:31 PM Liked: 32
post #36 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 7,562
Joined: Feb 2004
Seth try King Kong. I have a similar size room 18x13x8. I had my Hsu VTF3.3 set almost exactly like you except I had both ports open and the volume up almost half way. I closed the second port for deeper lower bass and now have the volume on the sub itself to about 1/3. I have the phase at 0 and the sub in a corner of my room. With 3/4 volume and the rest of the settings the way you describe @-5, etc. your house should be shaking with King Kong and I mean earth quake shaking. It is one powerful serious sub at high volumes with both ports open and even still with only one open, although deeper and less chest pounding. I do remember some forum members saying they had run Audyssey on their Denons and the bass seemed lower than they liked or that it should be.
cyberbri's Avatar cyberbri
11:44 PM Liked: 53
post #37 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 8,095
Joined: May 2004
Better yet, chapter 5 of War of the Worlds in DTS...
DrPainMD's Avatar DrPainMD
11:46 PM Liked: 16
post #38 of 6572
02-22-2007 | Posts: 2,228
Joined: Nov 2004
or "Pulse"

check my sig for chapter and time of the "BASS"
sethhobrin's Avatar sethhobrin
06:27 AM Liked: 10
post #39 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 862
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Seth try King Kong. I have a similar size room 18x13x8. I had my Hsu VTF3.3 set almost exactly like you except I had both ports open and the volume up almost half way. I closed the second port for deeper lower bass and now have the volume on the sub itself to about 1/3. I have the phase at 0 and the sub in a corner of my room. With 3/4 volume and the rest of the settings the way you describe @-5, etc. your house should be shaking with King Kong and I mean earth quake shaking. It is one powerful serious sub at high volumes with both ports open and even still with only one open, although deeper and less chest pounding. I do remember some forum members saying they had run Audyssey on their Denons and the bass seemed lower than they liked or that it should be.

I listened to the DTS version of WOTW during the lightning scene. At -5, 3/4 volume it was very loud. Same with 0, 1/2 volume. I was just expecting not to have to crank this up so much to get this much base. If I was at -5, 1/3 volume I would be way low in Db compared to my other speakers.

I also watched the Prestige on blu ray tonight. Very deep base on some of the tesla scenes but again like I said the sub needs to be cranked to a decent level to get some room shakin' base.
jhan1000's Avatar jhan1000
06:46 AM Liked: 11
post #40 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 1,234
Joined: May 2005
I'd be interested to see what frequency response is at your listening position. As G-star mentioned before, you may be sitting in a huge null.

Have you contacted HSU?
sethhobrin's Avatar sethhobrin
06:49 AM Liked: 10
post #41 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 862
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan1000 View Post

I'd be interested to see what frequency response is at your listening position. As G-star mentioned before, you may be sitting in a huge null.

Have you contacted HSU?

I have not in part because I was playing around with it yesturday and also in part because I am not sure that it is not functioning properly. It is loud but it just needs to be cranked higher than I thought to be that loud.

How do I check for a null? Sweep tones and watch spl meter for dips at certain frequencies?

Man I wish I knew someone in the Milwaukee, WI area with a sub of this caliber so I had something else to compare to. I have no idea what a sub is "supposed" to sound like accept for what I read.
Splotto's Avatar Splotto
06:51 AM Liked: 16
post #42 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 635
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Better yet, chapter 5 of War of the Worlds in DTS...

Hello:

This might be the result of me finally having a good sub + the MBM but I was watching THANK YOU FOR SMOKING the other night and there is a scene where he is in the car and the reporters are stampeding toward him (and I think it's in slow motion). That was the most feeling I got from the system so far. It felt very deep.

As I said, to Tin-Ear-Splotto it might have been my normal speakers and not even the subs doing it. I just happen to notice.

Splotto
jhan1000's Avatar jhan1000
07:11 AM Liked: 11
post #43 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 1,234
Joined: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

I have not in part because I was playing around with it yesturday and also in part because I am not sure that it is not functioning properly. It is loud but it just needs to be cranked higher than I thought to be that loud.

How do I check for a null? Sweep tones and watch spl meter for dips at certain frequencies?

Man I wish I knew someone in the Milwaukee, WI area with a sub of this caliber so I had something else to compare to. I have no idea what a sub is "supposed" to sound like accept for what I read.

Yep, to check a null, you would have to measure your frequency response. If you have an SPL meter, you can either:
1) Download the Realtraps Test Tone CD and measure the SPL at each frequency onto an Excel spreadsheet.
2) Use RoomEq. This is free software.

It would also be interesting to see what your Max SPL is with various scenes are with your SPL Meter 1m away from your subwoofer.
jesyjames's Avatar jesyjames
08:19 AM Liked: 11
post #44 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 377
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post


The sub is working. It just isn't nearly as impactful as I was thinking it would be from hearing others.

Look around the Denon 2807 thread. I think you will find the answers you are looking for there. I had one once and I couldn't get the bass right with the Audigy setup. It had just come out and I didn't want to fuss around with it. I'm sure by now people are very familiar with the receiver and what you need to do to great bass from it so it's worth taking a look.
sethhobrin's Avatar sethhobrin
09:38 AM Liked: 10
post #45 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 862
Joined: Nov 2006
If I have all my speakers set to small and crossovers all at 80hz should I have my sub set to LFE ONLY or LFE +MAIN?
SimpleSetup's Avatar SimpleSetup
09:53 AM Liked: 10
post #46 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 773
Joined: Dec 2004
There is something different with your receiver. Normally if the speakers are set to small, you will not have a choice. The only time you get to choose LFE+Main or SW Plus is if you have set up the speakers to large. But anyway, to answer your question, set it to LFE.
camtah's Avatar camtah
10:13 AM Liked: 10
post #47 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 77
Joined: Jan 2007
My new VTF3.3 arrived yesterday, minus the power cord. Lucky my old sub had the correct type.
I set it up per Dr. Hsu recommendations, behind my main sofa (near field?) and tried the demo CD that included some really low base..who needs butt kickers..wow

Anyway, I installed the DVD "Incredibles" and noticed in the rocket scene a few "pops" during the
rocket exhaust roar out the tunnel. Now my processor is set at -3dB and the sub controller is around 9 o'clock. I don't remember hearing that with my old sub, but then again maybe that's why I purchased this one..I was missing some sounds. BTW, this is the only scene that I hear it on

Is there a problem here or is it just that I hear more from the new sub?
Tdekany's Avatar Tdekany
10:29 AM Liked: 11
post #48 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 705
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by camtah View Post

My new VTF3.3 arrived yesterday, minus the power cord. Lucky my old sub had the correct type.
I set it up per Dr. Hsu recommendations, behind my main sofa (near field?) and tried the demo CD that included some really low base..who needs butt kickers..wow

Anyway, I installed the DVD "Incredibles" and noticed in the rocket scene a few "pops" during the
rocket exhaust roar out the tunnel. Now my processor is set at -3dB and the sub controller is around 9 o'clock. I don't remember hearing that with my old sub, but then again maybe that's why I purchased this one..I was missing some sounds. BTW, this is the only scene that I hear it on

Is there a problem here or is it just that I hear more from the new sub?

if the sub isn't calibrated it is running too hot.
captaincelluloid's Avatar captaincelluloid
12:05 PM Liked: 10
post #49 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 351
Joined: May 2005
I'd like to get some feedback on NEAR FIELD PLACEMENT ie next to back of the sofa which is NOT against the back wall -- vs -- CORNER PLACEMENT.

Dr Hsu seems to be really advocating near field.

. . . . but most other sub gurus seem to advocate corner placement.

What the scoop?


-30-
CKYRO1's Avatar CKYRO1
12:16 PM Liked: 10
post #50 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 130
Joined: Aug 2006
Since I got the 3.3 I have been overwhelmingly impressed. However, since I had a pretty good sub that came with the Orbs (Super 8) I decided to hook it up nearfield. I purchased a filter to block all <50hz from the Orb sub. It may not be the MB 12, but it gives the same effect I believe. I really like this setup. I was going to buy an MB 12, but I don't think I need to now. I played The Haunting (DTS Version), and man the whole house was shaking. There is one scene where stuff in my house was rattling badly, but I couldn't hear the bass. That's serious. Good thing I didn't get rid of the original sub. Music sounds better this way also, because I can cross the Super 8 over at 120-150 hz, which gives me great midbass. I cross the 3.3 over at 70hz.
Rupert's Avatar Rupert
12:35 PM Liked: 10
post #51 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 2,281
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKYRO1 View Post

I purchased a filter to block all <50hz

Which filter did you use? Do you have a link?
CKYRO1's Avatar CKYRO1
01:08 PM Liked: 10
post #52 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 130
Joined: Aug 2006
http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=27
gohd's Avatar gohd
08:10 PM Liked: 10
post #53 of 6572
02-23-2007 | Posts: 1,698
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

Its just not as loud as I expected but it does dissappear into the soundstage making everything sound more rich, full and deep.

I have never had a HT sub just car subs so maybe I was just expecting something different.

I took me a while to get used to a real HT sub too (have a VTF3 MK2). Not until I ran a frequency sweep did I notice how different lows sound/feel at different frequencies. My car sub, which I thought was low back in the day, was probably nowhere near even 50hz. I had to adjust my expectations. Now, smooth, seamless and quick are more important to me than loud and boomy.

Regardless, 3/4 sounds high. Even at about 1/3 max, my Pio's auto MCACC told me to turn down the sub's gain. Now, it's about 1/4 or so.
xcjago's Avatar xcjago
01:15 AM Liked: 10
post #54 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 1,029
Joined: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by camtah View Post

My new VTF3.3 arrived yesterday, minus the power cord. Lucky my old sub had the correct type.
I set it up per Dr. Hsu recommendations, behind my main sofa (near field?) and tried the demo CD that included some really low base..who needs butt kickers..wow

Anyway, I installed the DVD "Incredibles" and noticed in the rocket scene a few "pops" during the
rocket exhaust roar out the tunnel. Now my processor is set at -3dB and the sub controller is around 9 o'clock. I don't remember hearing that with my old sub, but then again maybe that's why I purchased this one..I was missing some sounds. BTW, this is the only scene that I hear it on

Is there a problem here or is it just that I hear more from the new sub?

Try turning the main volume down a little and see if it sounds the same.
Splotto's Avatar Splotto
05:16 AM Liked: 16
post #55 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 635
Joined: Feb 2006
Hello:

This same issue is being discussed over on the HSU forums and it seems they may have found the issue.

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=2924

Any comments here on the LFE+Main issue?

Splotto
sethhobrin's Avatar sethhobrin
03:46 PM Liked: 10
post #56 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 862
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splotto View Post

Hello:

This same issue is being discussed over on the HSU forums and it seems they may have found the issue.

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=2924

Any comments here on the LFE+Main issue?

Splotto


Thats because that is my thread

Anyways I did a full reset on my reciever and recalibrated everything with an SPL meter. Sub is set to LFE+main and all speakers are set to small with crossovers at 80hz. Everything is perfect now. Awesome room shakin bass at -5 level on reciever and 1/3rd on volume knob.
Tdekany's Avatar Tdekany
03:51 PM Liked: 11
post #57 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 705
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

Thats because that is my thread

Anyways I did a full reset on my reciever and recalibrated everything with an SPL meter. Sub is set to LFE+main and all speakers are set to small with crossovers at 80hz. Everything is perfect now. Awesome room shakin bass at -5 level on reciever and 1/3rd on volume knob.


You see!? THAT IS AWESOME!
Hughmc's Avatar Hughmc
04:30 PM Liked: 32
post #58 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 7,562
Joined: Feb 2004
Seth, one powerful room shaking sub with great sound quality isn't it? Great to hear you have it resolved.
jhan1000's Avatar jhan1000
05:16 PM Liked: 11
post #59 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 1,234
Joined: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

Thats because that is my thread

Anyways I did a full reset on my reciever and recalibrated everything with an SPL meter. Sub is set to LFE+main and all speakers are set to small with crossovers at 80hz. Everything is perfect now. Awesome room shakin bass at -5 level on reciever and 1/3rd on volume knob.

Great news.... Glad everything worked out.
cyberbri's Avatar cyberbri
05:25 PM Liked: 53
post #60 of 6572
02-24-2007 | Posts: 8,095
Joined: May 2004
Glad everything turned out ok.
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