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post #6631 of 6658 Old 04-01-2015, 09:01 PM
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Look, dirty pot conversations need to be handled on another forum LOL

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post #6632 of 6658 Old 04-03-2015, 10:50 PM
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I have dual sub eq (Audyssey xt32) on AVR and run dual vtf3 mk5.

Currently I have each hooked to their sub output on AVR. I have the rcas plugged into the top input on each sub. Has a circle around it that says 'right'.

Should I have the one that's on left side of my room hooked to the one that is below the top input and says 'left' ?
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post #6633 of 6658 Old 04-04-2015, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I have dual sub eq (Audyssey xt32) on AVR and run dual vtf3 mk5.

Currently I have each hooked to their sub output on AVR. I have the rcas plugged into the top input on each sub. Has a circle around it that says 'right'.

Should I have the one that's on left side of my room hooked to the one that is below the top input and says 'left' ?
Keep the subs connected to the top input, labeled 'sub in'. You don't need to use the lower input (you can if you want, but it won't do anything useful for your setup).
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post #6634 of 6658 Old 04-04-2015, 11:44 AM
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Have some rattles that I'm trying to tame, so I'm curious if anyone is using the Auralex SubDude, GreatGRAMMA or SVS SoundPath Isolation system with their VTF-15H subs. My room is carpeted, so not sure if I should be using these or looking into something else.
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post #6635 of 6658 Old 04-06-2015, 04:37 PM
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Will the VTF-3 MK5 amp fit the VTF-3 MK2 foot print? My amp is blown. I will post some pics for people to see. There is gunk all over a few capacitors. Dr. HSU really should use Japanese electronics for reliability. I have seen images of others with blown amps and the failure points seem to be consistent. Getting the amp off required removing the subwoofer. Also has anybody heard how much the amps are going for? Either the MK4 or the new MK5 amps.

Last edited by Hans Gruber; 04-06-2015 at 04:40 PM.
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post #6636 of 6658 Old 04-15-2015, 08:13 AM
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Some good discussion on LPF settings. I am going to try the 80hz mark going forward and see what it does. Good dialog from a sub builder and a guy that worked for Dolby!

From Audyssey thread:

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?

First of all, Audyssey doesn't touch this setting. Neither is it a Crossover, although you will often see it described as such. It stands for Low Pass Filter of the LowFrequency Effects Channel. The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is the .1 in a 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio track and it carries special content put there by the content mixer. The Low Pass Filter is the filter that is applied to that content. The content is authored up to 120Hz so the only setting that is correct for this is 120Hz. If you set it to anything below 120Hz then any content between 120Hz and whatever you set it to is lost. It is not redirected anywhere - it is simply discarded. This filter has nothing to do with any speaker Crossovers etc and it is not set by Audyssey. The only reason it is in the FAQ is that people often think that Audyssey has set it and they confuse it with their speaker Crossovers. Just set it at 120Hz and leave it there.

UPDATED VIEWPOINT: The paragraph above represents the conventional Audyssey thinking on this issue. However, Roger Dressler (formerly of Dolby Labs and the guy who helped them develop many of their technologies, including bass management) and Mark Seaton (founder and owner of Seaton Sound, makers of the legendary Submersive subwoofers) have both recently put forward an alternative view. Mark explains it like this in this post:

"I personally tend to set the low pass on the LFE channel at 80Hz in most systems by preference. I think many forget that the difference between a 120Hz low pass and an 80Hz low pass is nothing more than a shelving filter. If the low pass is 4th order, the 80Hz filter is about 7dB lower at 100Hz and about 4dB at 80Hz. A 100Hz low pass setting would have about 1/2 that difference. The adjustment has more effect on shaping the LFE track's response than it does on cutting off content. If you're running the subs with a rising response on the low end which blends with the main speakers, experimenting with 80, 100 vs. 120Hz is basically a means to taper the top end of the LFE channel. Setting this lower than 120Hz is not hacking off content any more than setting your sub a few dB hot would destroy a soundtrack."

What this means in effect is that you do NOT lose the content between 80Hz and 120Hz if you set the LPF of LFE to 80Hz - you simply alter the way it is presented, because the filter is not a brickwall but a shelving filter. Setting it to 80Hz simply allows you to 'shape' the LFE track's response.

Roger goes on to elaborate more in a separate post (my bolding below):

"Back when DTS was making their name with Jurassic Park and Apollo 13 on 35mm film, the LFE bandwidth was 80 Hz. The Dolby Digital codec has a bandlimited LFE channel, and it has a brickwall filter at 120 Hz as a means to protect the LFE channel from higher frequencies (which can still be present even with a 4th-order LPF at 80 Hz). It seems that when films moved from optical to digital delivery, the LFE bandwidth crept up to 120 Hz or maybe even higher (the PCM LFE channel has no inherent response limitation). I suppose it helps less than magnificent subwoofers in "regular" cinemas provide more whomp. But I find that LFE in the 100-120 Hz region is just a lot of boominess that unfortunately too often clouds the deeper bass in the bottom 2 octaves. Setting the LFE filter to 80 Hz does a dandy job of dealing with that boominess IMHO.

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post #6637 of 6658 Old 04-15-2015, 10:09 AM
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replacing or repairing dead amp in HSU subwoofer

I'm curious if you've replaced your amp yet or what responses you've had about this. My VTF-3 HO amp just stopped working and when I contacted HSU they told me I could either send in the amp for repair for $175 +$25 s/h (plus the cost of packaging it up and sending it back to them) or I could buy a replacement amp. The thing is the VTF-3 mk4 is a 350w amp and the VTF-3 mk5 amp is a 600w amp. The amp in the VTF-3 HO is 500w. They said I couldn't use the 600w amp because it's too powerful because it's made for a 15" driver and would blow my 12" driver in the HO. So they offered to sell me the VTF-3 mk4 amp for $235.

I'd MUCH rather buy a new amp than repair the old one. It would be even nicer if I could get an amp BETTER than what I had before. Does anyone know would the 600w mk5 amp really blow the driver on the HO? Is 100w really that big a difference? Isn't the HO specifically made to handle more power? I know the driver is different on the HO compared to the mk2 that was available at the time (it's suppose to have a longer throw and be able to deal with more power.) If the 600w amp is TOO MUCH for the HO would it be better to repair the 500w HO amp or replace it with the mk4 amp? If the 600w amp would really be ok should I push them to let me purchase that amp as a replacement?

Has anyone else gone through this and replaced the amp in their HSU subwoofer? If so what did you replace it with and was it better or worse than before?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post
Will the VTF-3 MK5 amp fit the VTF-3 MK2 foot print? My amp is blown. I will post some pics for people to see. There is gunk all over a few capacitors. Dr. HSU really should use Japanese electronics for reliability. I have seen images of others with blown amps and the failure points seem to be consistent. Getting the amp off required removing the subwoofer. Also has anybody heard how much the amps are going for? Either the MK4 or the new MK5 amps.
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post #6638 of 6658 Old 04-15-2015, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddpritch View Post
I'm curious if you've replaced your amp yet or what responses you've had about this. My VTF-3 HO amp just stopped working and when I contacted HSU they told me I could either send in the amp for repair for $175 +$25 s/h (plus the cost of packaging it up and sending it back to them) or I could buy a replacement amp. The thing is the VTF-3 mk4 is a 350w amp and the VTF-3 mk5 amp is a 600w amp. The amp in the VTF-3 HO is 500w. They said I couldn't use the 600w amp because it's too powerful because it's made for a 15" driver and would blow my 12" driver in the HO. So they offered to sell me the VTF-3 mk4 amp for $235.

I'd MUCH rather buy a new amp than repair the old one. It would be even nicer if I could get an amp BETTER than what I had before. Does anyone know would the 600w mk5 amp really blow the driver on the HO? Is 100w really that big a difference? Isn't the HO specifically made to handle more power? I know the driver is different on the HO compared to the mk2 that was available at the time (it's suppose to have a longer throw and be able to deal with more power.) If the 600w amp is TOO MUCH for the HO would it be better to repair the 500w HO amp or replace it with the mk4 amp? If the 600w amp would really be ok should I push them to let me purchase that amp as a replacement?

Has anyone else gone through this and replaced the amp in their HSU subwoofer? If so what did you replace it with and was it better or worse than before?
I spent a couple of hours inspecting the sub inside and out. I took out the amp and photographed all the connections. It's a very basic setup. I got the same $235 price for an MK4 amp. I have not responded to the email as I would like to barter and take a few shots at their amp capacitors. My amp has so much yellow gunk on so many different capacitors. I will obviously be ordering the MK4 amp eventually but I am not happy with the components lack of reliability. I have always had a bias towards Japanese electronics because they never break. Computer motherboard manufacturers advertise they use Japanese made capacitors in their literature.

It's nice the MK4 amp is an upgrade but how long will it last? My amp was at 10-15% power. It was perfectly tuned. I never stressed the amp and balanced the sub with an analog sound meter.
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post #6639 of 6658 Old 04-15-2015, 11:19 AM
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Yeah I agree about the suspect reliability of these amps. I've NEVER had another amp break on me in over 20 years of using high end audio gear. The sub volume was so low I actually think there was a problem with the gain, I mean it was practically off it was so low. I have the system calibrated with audessey and a velodyne sms-1 and I use a MBM-12 so the sub is crossed over pretty low at around 50hz. I just don't see how there was anything on my end that contributed to the death of this amp. The problem is I'm obviously not the only one, a quick google search pulls up TONS of people with vtf-2s and vtf-3 mk2, mk3, and HOs all with their amps dying. It just seems like an unreliable part that will eventually die and that is super troubling.

When I asked the tech about this they said they haven't seen any issue with the amps and that this just must be a small vocal section of a large consumer base. That may be true to a point, but I've never seen this with any other piece of gear I've owned. They really should be doing something about this either by extended the warranties or by using a different amp manufacturer.

It sucks right now because I'm being told my amp is discontinued, the mk5 amp is too powerful for my sub and the mk4 amp is weaker than my current amp. I'm just not convinced the mk5 amp wouldn't work perfectly in the HO sub and I really don't want to go down in power. Ugh.
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post #6640 of 6658 Old 04-15-2015, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddpritch View Post
Yeah I agree about the suspect reliability of these amps. I've NEVER had another amp break on me in over 20 years of using high end audio gear. The sub volume was so low I actually think there was a problem with the gain, I mean it was practically off it was so low. I have the system calibrated with audessey and a velodyne sms-1 and I use a MBM-12 so the sub is crossed over pretty low at around 50hz. I just don't see how there was anything on my end that contributed to the death of this amp. The problem is I'm obviously not the only one, a quick google search pulls up TONS of people with vtf-2s and vtf-3 mk2, mk3, and HOs all with their amps dying. It just seems like an unreliable part that will eventually die and that is super troubling.

When I asked the tech about this they said they haven't seen any issue with the amps and that this just must be a small vocal section of a large consumer base. That may be true to a point, but I've never seen this with any other piece of gear I've owned. They really should be doing something about this either by extended the warranties or by using a different amp manufacturer.

It sucks right now because I'm being told my amp is discontinued, the mk5 amp is too powerful for my sub and the mk4 amp is weaker than my current amp. I'm just not convinced the mk5 amp wouldn't work perfectly in the HO sub and I really don't want to go down in power. Ugh.
I suspect that is because the amps have been failing around 5 years. The amp is analog. There is no digital sound processing or complex RISC based 24bit chips from analog devices. It weighs nothing. There are no heat sinks. The backplate is where most of it's weight comes from. I do not understand why Dr. Hsu would use inferior quality parts in his amps to save a few $$$.

The performance of the HSU subs speak for themselves. When the amp fails the sound cannot be felt or heard.
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post #6641 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 11:42 AM
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My room has been a challenge to get bass eq'd properly. I have two VTF 3MK5's.


Any FR graph I run, it seems that the low end bass is extremely high. From like 50hz down. I believe it's my room gain.


What setting would be best to give the MOST lower frequency roll off? i.e. one or two ports? EQ 1 or 2 ?
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post #6642 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
My room has been a challenge to get bass eq'd properly. I have two VTF 3MK5's.


Any FR graph I run, it seems that the low end bass is extremely high. From like 50hz down. I believe it's my room gain.


What setting would be best to give the MOST lower frequency roll off? i.e. one or two ports? EQ 1 or 2 ?
The best is to try 4" port open, EQ2, Q 0.3.

Do send us your room layout and we can make suggestions on placement to help the situation.
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post #6643 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 12:18 PM
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The best is to try 4" port open, EQ2, Q 0.3.

Do send us your room layout and we can make suggestions on placement to help the situation.
Ok I'll do that. And just to clarify, the subs are not the problem, they are fantastic! I just have a very challenging room it seems.
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post #6644 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post
I suspect that is because the amps have been failing around 5 years...
It looks like you've been considering replacing your amp for about 9 months. If I understand correctly, your amp lasted 7 years.

HSU VTF-3 MK2 amp removal questions.

"I am probably going to buy a new (MK4) amp from them. I will probably do a little of haggling. It's a 2007 sub. It been out for probably 6 months."

If having Hsu repair/replace your amp is outside your budget, there is a forum member (daveds50) that might be able to provide a quote to repair your amp. He seems to have the same passion for capacitors.

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post #6645 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddpritch View Post
I'm curious if you've replaced your amp yet or what responses you've had about this. My VTF-3 HO amp just stopped working and when I contacted HSU they told me I could either send in the amp for repair for $175 +$25 s/h (plus the cost of packaging it up and sending it back to them) or I could buy a replacement amp. The thing is the VTF-3 mk4 is a 350w amp and the VTF-3 mk5 amp is a 600w amp. The amp in the VTF-3 HO is 500w. They said I couldn't use the 600w amp because it's too powerful because it's made for a 15" driver and would blow my 12" driver in the HO. So they offered to sell me the VTF-3 mk4 amp for $235.

I'd MUCH rather buy a new amp than repair the old one. It would be even nicer if I could get an amp BETTER than what I had before. Does anyone know would the 600w mk5 amp really blow the driver on the HO? Is 100w really that big a difference? Isn't the HO specifically made to handle more power? I know the driver is different on the HO compared to the mk2 that was available at the time (it's suppose to have a longer throw and be able to deal with more power.) If the 600w amp is TOO MUCH for the HO would it be better to repair the 500w HO amp or replace it with the mk4 amp? If the 600w amp would really be ok should I push them to let me purchase that amp as a replacement?

Has anyone else gone through this and replaced the amp in their HSU subwoofer? If so what did you replace it with and was it better or worse than before?
Did the amp last 9 years? I assume you like the sub if you're considering repairing it. If so, why not have the amp serviced for $200?

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post #6646 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 03:00 PM
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Did the amp last 9 years? I assume you like the sub if you're considering repairing it. If so, why not have the amp serviced for $200?
I believe I've owned the subwoofer for 8 years. I love the sub it's fantastic. I don't want to get rid of the sub I want to fix the subwoofer, but the problem is fixing the subwoofer requires either FIXING the amp or REPLACING the amp. If I fix the amp I will have to pay to package it, ship it, wait for it to be fixed, then hope that something else on the amp doesn't fail in the near future because it's an older amp (plus I was having an issue with the gain before this even happened so something seemed off with the amp.)

If I replace the amp it's only about $60 more expensive, but I wouldn't have to pay to have it packed and shipped, I would get a brand new amp that has been designed and manufactured more recently and it would be shipped out as soon as I order it. Also possibly I might get a BETTER amp that actually makes the subwoofer BETTER than before.

According to HSU I have 3 choices. Repair the 500w/2000w peak HO amp without Q control, replace the amp with the mk4 350w/1400w peak amp with Q control, or replace with the mk5 600w/2000w peak amp with Q control. They tell me that they don't think I should get the 600w mk5 amp because it's too powerful and will damage the driver in the HO, but if I want to order it they will sell it to me, but won't be responsible if something breaks or gets damaged. They can't really give me a clear answer as to if the weaker mk4 amp will be a better or worse amp for the HO subwoofer which originally had a more powerful amp.

The cost for all these solutions is relatively the same so that's a non issue. Basically the issue is that I fear that going from the 500w amp tot the 350w amp will actually be a downgrade and my sub will be worse than before and if I get the 600w amp it may damage my sub and if I fix the amp I'm stuck with an old amp that may have more issues in the future. Also I'm just not sure if the HO amp is better or worse, it is more powerful but also like 6 years older than the mk4 amp and it lacks Q control. So yeah I am going to fix the subwoofer I just don't know which way I should do this.
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post #6647 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 04:53 PM
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The extra power on the HO amp is not going to give you much more output. It wouldn't even gain you 2 more dB. For every 3 dB gain in output, you need to double the amp power. Go with the mk4 amp. The mk5 amp has different tuning points, the mk5 is a substantially different design. The mk4 is more similar, I would go for the mk4 amp, it will play better with the HO and not shave off output above the tuning point like the mk5 amp would. OR you could just remove the amp from the HO, replace it with a piece of MDF with some speaker terminals on it, and use a outboard amplifier, like one of the Behringer iNukes. You would need to apply a high pass filter though, so you don't bottom out the sub.
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post #6648 of 6658 Old 04-17-2015, 09:22 PM
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I checked how long I have had the VTF-3 MK2. I have had it longer than I thought. October 2004.
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post #6649 of 6658 Old 04-18-2015, 11:50 AM
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Is there anyone out there on the Space Coast that has the Mk4 or 15h that would be open to an audition? Looking to upgrade and for the price these two are speaking to me. Not a whole lot difference in the price between the two but if the Mk4 is so good, doesn't seem like it may be worth it to spend the extra $$.

LET'S GO HOKIES
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post #6650 of 6658 Old 04-27-2015, 05:22 PM
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Surprised to see Hsu isn't on the exhibitor list for T.H.E Show in Irvine. That is like really close to Hsu headquarters.
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post #6651 of 6658 Old Today, 09:49 AM
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Just wanted to update on my dual 15h's. I recently added some larger mains that can cross at 60hz, and that should help take a little load off the subs. I also started crossing the LFE channel in the preamp at 80 instead of 120, after reading some good dialog in the Audyssey thread by a Dolby guy and Mark Seaton.

I've found I prefer maximum headroom mode (Eq2, 1 port open). After a lot of reading and knowing my room is 5300cut (I also like high playback levels), this mode seemed ideal according to the description. I also found some good dialog on the Hsu forums from the past. I am also running a Q of 0.5, once again for a large room. This is also the best mode to be between the output of max output mode and the lower extension of max extension mode.

Just in my testing with a good spl meter, I have found my duals can thump to about 110-112db (MLP) in my favorite action scenes, so I reckon that is pretty good in this room.


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post #6652 of 6658 Old Today, 10:31 AM
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Just curious, whatever made you think you needed to "take a little load off" those subs? Two 15h's ought to blow down the security door of a meth lab let alone fill your space, even if handling 120Hz and below... Perhaps something I don't know.
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post #6653 of 6658 Old Today, 10:38 AM
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Well, the subs are handling the LFE channel, handling everything for the center, and everything for the fronts under 80hz.

If you have mains that can handle something below 80hz, you should use them. End of the day, they are still front channels, and you are directing it to the subs. IMO, 80hz is also still directional a little.

Having fronts with dual 10's offers plenty of punch on the front channels. Think about it this way, the more you send to your subs, the less headroom they actually have left for the LFE channel, which is their main job. My previous towers did not sound well at 60, but these do.

I'm also in 5300cuft of space, so its a big room to fill.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC62II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #6654 of 6658 Old Today, 12:53 PM
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Klipsch RF-7s, killer speakers! They should handle mid bass fine, but still, it is a larger load for the amplifier. The higher you set the crossover, the easier it is on the amp - you are using the outlaw amp? The VTF15h speakers would likely still be more suited for bass below 80 Hz than the Klipsch speakers, but I am sure it sounds fine in either configuration.
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That outlaw has more than enough power.

You should here them full range in music, sound better than with the subs running. They kicks the chairs hard with bass, its tight, and the dual 10's in each tower are hardly working. Amazing speakers and I should have purchased them the first time.

I personally think people get caught up too much in the 80hz number. If you have a center with dual 8's, or towers with 8's/10's, no need to divert that to the sub (atleast 60hz and up). In the first place those sounds were meant for those channels anyways, not the sub. . Even at 80hz I can hear voices end up in the subs at times, and hate it. Unfortunately the center to match the 7ii's still will have to be set at 80hz.

Now, if you have a center and and towers with a freq response that only goes down to 70hz, and or smaller drivers on a 90w AVR. Sure, cross at 80.

I bought the power and the speakers to run lower than 80 for a reason. But, end of the day, you have to listen in your room after auto eq and decide for yourself. Every room and setup is different, depends on a lot of things as we all know.

When Chad B did my system with the dual 8" woofer towers, he set them at 60hz.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC62II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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I own the VTF3-MK5 and due to limited placement options, I have the subwoofer laying on it's side. Is this bad for the subwoofer? Will using it like this cause damage?
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It's fine. Orientation won't do anything to damage the sub or diminish the sound quality. I would put a soft fabric something under it in order not to scratch the finish, but other than that, a sideways placement will not affect the function of the sub.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
It's fine. Orientation won't do anything to damage the sub or diminish the sound quality. I would put a soft fabric something under it in order not to scratch the finish, but other than that, a sideways placement will not affect the function of the sub.
Thanks.
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