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post #1081 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluLover View Post

What crossover settings are you guys using, and why?

VTF2.3 50hz "in"
MBM 12 80hz "out"

Tried many crossover points and these sound best when blended with the built in subs in the def tech towers.
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post #1082 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Good info

I recently got my first real subwoofer....a HSU STF2 and I have been playing around with setting it up. My problem is that often the Sub is very localized..i.e I can tell where its at. I am very limited in the # of locations in my room I can place the sub. It is currently in a back corner(#2 in the pic)...near the main listening location...about 1foot from each wall. This so far seems to produce the best results...but its not perfect...especially for music. The only other possible location is #1...There is just no way to put the sub up with the mains/center and TV.


I have the XO on my receiver (H/K 247) set to 80h and all speakers SMALL. I am still learning all the slope and how XO really work but I am not sure why I am getting what seems to be directional frequencies.

The only calibration I have done is with the receiver test tones and an RS SPL...I calibrated all the speakers and sub to ~75db.

At 80hz I would expect the rollover to be such that directional frequencies would not be played by the sub..but that does not seem to be the case.

Also, I am on a 3rd floor apartment so I have the SUB on a Auralex GRAMMA Isolation Riser.. could this be causing some of the localization?

FYI the rest of my speakers are: Klipsch KSF 10.5 mains, KSF C5 Center and Synergy S1 Surrounds.

I'm also EXTREMELY sensitive to subwoofer placement. I've tried rear nearfield placement with crossovers of 80hz and even 60hz and still could localize the sub. It's possible that there's a peak in your in-room response at a higher bass frequency like 150hz that can be causing issues. If you have a 15dB peak in a frequency like that, it would negate the crossover's slope and make that frequency localizable. This is just speculation, of course.

In my case, it's not necessarily that I'm always "hearing" the sub from a certain place, but it's distracting that I can "feel" the sub's location. For instance, if the sub is nearfield to one side of me, that side of my body "feels" that the bass is coming from that side. Maybe it sounds weird, but that's how it is for me. I also think that just psychologically, if you know the sub is in a certain spot, it makes it easier to localize. I use front soundstage placement for my subs for this reason, but I can understand that not everyone has this option. If I were you, I'd continue trying different settings, to see if they'll help. It would also be a good idea to plot out your in-room bass response at your listening position to see if there are any peaks that might be giving away your sub's location. These could probably be fixed or at least reduced with EQ. Good luck.
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post #1083 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

I'm also EXTREMELY sensitive to subwoofer placement. I've tried rear nearfield placement with crossovers of 80hz and even 60hz and still could localize the sub. It's possible that there's a peak in your in-room response at a higher bass frequency like 150hz that can be causing issues. If you have a 15dB peak in a frequency like that, it would negate the crossover's slope and make that frequency localizable. This is just speculation, of course.

In my case, it's not necessarily that I'm always "hearing" the sub from a certain place, but it's distracting that I can "feel" the sub's location. For instance, if the sub is nearfield to one side of me, that side of my body "feels" that the bass is coming from that side. Maybe it sounds weird, but that's how it is for me. I also think that just psychologically, if you know the sub is in a certain spot, it makes it easier to localize. I use front soundstage placement for my subs for this reason, but I can understand that not everyone has this option. If I were you, I'd continue trying different settings, to see if they'll help. It would also be a good idea to plot out your in-room bass response at your listening position to see if there are any peaks that might be giving away your sub's location. These could probably be fixed or at least reduced with EQ. Good luck.

Yeah, I should have said .."I can feel" the sub's location. Thats exactly what I am noticing.

I downloaded Room EQ Wizard but for the life of me cannot get it working or at least working to a point where it makes sense. I think I am not calibrating things correctly because I can run 5 measurements in a row and get 5 different plots...or sometimes I get 3 different plots and 2 that give clipping, level to low, impulse peak not where it should be type errors....Its never consistent so I seriously question the accuracy of any results I get.

Or maybe REW is accurate and my room is REALLY bad =P

My next step is to get a set of good calibration tones (just not sure where from) and try to generate a plot manually.
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post #1084 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Yeah, I should have said .."I can feel" the sub's location. Thats exactly what I am noticing.

I downloaded Room EQ Wizard but for the life of me cannot get it working or at least working to a point where it makes sense. I think I am not calibrating things correctly because I can run 5 measurements in a row and get 5 different plots...or sometimes I get 3 different plots and 2 that give clipping, level to low, impulse peak not where it should be type errors....Its never consistent so I seriously question the accuracy of any results I get.

Or maybe REW is accurate and my room is REALLY bad =P

My next step is to get a set of good calibration tones (just not sure where from) and try to generate a plot manually.

Sounds like we're very much alike, then. Some people don't tend to notice directionality of bass, but I find it exceedingly annoying when I feel the punch of an explosion on my side or back as opposed to from the vicinity of the screen.

With respect to measuring FR manually, that's actually what I did. Here's a link to a site that has bass test tones in 1hz increments.

http://realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

I used these test tones when I measured my FR. It's funny, because my bass response was actually much flatter than I thought it would be. But anyway, test that out and let me know if it helps . Good luck!
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post #1085 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Sounds like we're very much alike, then. Some people don't tend to notice directionality of bass, but I find it exceedingly annoying when I feel the punch of an explosion on my side or back as opposed to from the vicinity of the screen.

With respect to measuring FR manually, that's actually what I did. Here's a link to a site that has bass test tones in 1hz increments.

http://realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

I used these test tones when I measured my FR. It's funny, because my bass response was actually much flatter than I thought it would be. But anyway, test that out and let me know if it helps . Good luck!

Thanks for the link.

Doing this manually is gonna take some time...sounds like a rainy weekend project.

I have a Sonos system...so I can put those test tracks onto my NAS...and have easy access and timestamp readout available to me on the Sonos controller.
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post #1086 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Thanks for the link.

Doing this manually is gonna take some time...sounds like a rainy weekend project.

I have a Sonos system...so I can put those test tracks onto my NAS...and have easy access and timestamp readout available to me on the Sonos controller.

Sounds good . As for doing the test tones, it won't take all that long. I went from about 18hz to 90hz and it only took about 15 minutes. Though if you decide to do the entire CD it'll take awhile. Anyway, hope it helps.
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post #1087 of 6281 Old 03-25-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

ThePlungerMan,

Could you explain what exactly it is that doesn't quite make sense to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

........
If your speakers produce strong enough bass to about 100Hz, it might be possible to "stack" the crossovers by engaging the one on the sub as well, filtering out sound above that xo point on a slope. This would help get rid of the more localizable frequencies if the sub is close to you. Just be sure that you don't leave a gap or hole in bass response at your listening position in the 100~200Hz or so range.

Thank you very very much. I now have a better understanding of how the slope xover settings work.
What is an example of what you said "why using a high crossover frequency, what would that be. Sorry IOW
Say i have nice front towers (i do ) that audessy set to 4oHz and my sub was set to 80, do i leave that for a higher roll off? or is that a lower roll off. For instance i hear around here to set fronts to small 80hz and set the subs LFE to 120, is that a high or low roll off?
Thanks again. I'm knowing more because of you.
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post #1088 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Thanks for the link.

Doing this manually is gonna take some time...sounds like a rainy weekend project.

I have a Sonos system...so I can put those test tracks onto my NAS...and have easy access and timestamp readout available to me on the Sonos controller.


If you have a laptop with a soundcard that accepts line in you can go to hometheatershack.com and download room eq wizard for free. Once setup it can go through your entire FR in about 10 secs. Very easy to calibrate and find the best placement for your sub using it.

Good luck
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post #1089 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

If you have a laptop with a soundcard that accepts line in you can go to hometheatershack.com and download room eq wizard for free. Once setup it can go through your entire FR in about 10 secs. Very easy to calibrate and find the best placement for your sub using it.

Good luck

I have tried multiple times on 2 different computers...with a total of 4 different sound cards and have yet to be able to get REW running properly. Sometimes I think I got the soundcard cal correct..then I go to do measurements and get odd results...and I can run 4 measurements in a row and get 4 drastically different plots...getting either a "input to low", "input to high", or "impulse peak not where it should be" errors. I just do not know what my issue is but considering I get such odd and random results I do not trust the accuracy.

Which is why I am going to do this manually..hopefully get to it this weekend.
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post #1090 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

I have tried multiple times on 2 different computers...with a total of 4 different sound cards and have yet to be able to get REW running properly. Sometimes I think I got the soundcard cal correct..then I go to do measurements and get odd results...and I can run 4 measurements in a row and get 4 drastically different plots...getting either a "input to low", "input to high", or "impulse peak not where it should be" errors. I just do not know what my issue is but considering I get such odd and random results I do not trust the accuracy.

Which is why I am going to do this manually..hopefully get to it this weekend.

Fair enough, just trying to save you some time
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post #1091 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 01:29 PM
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If it isn't too much trouble, could someone give me the dimensions of the box the VTF-2 MK3 ships in? Mine is arriving this Friday, and if I can't fit it into my car, I'm going to have make alternative transportation plans very soon.

Thanks!
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post #1092 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by zbrett View Post

If it isn't too much trouble, could someone give me the dimensions of the box the VTF-2 MK3 ships in? Mine is arriving this Friday, and if I can't fit it into my car, I'm going to have make alternative transportation plans very soon.

Thanks!

You could just call HSU and ask them, they should be able to give you the dimensions of the box (over the phone).
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post #1093 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 01:54 PM
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I emailed them yesterday and they haven't responded yet... thought someone here might have it handy before I try navigating the voice mail system. Went ahead and called. For future reference, the box is 29x19x30.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

You could just call HSU and ask them, they should be able to give you the dimensions of the box (over the phone).

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post #1094 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 03:07 PM
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I got my 3.3 today. My cats no longer come out. I broke a mirror after listening to organ music. Five pictures fell off the fireplace mantel. I can hear my bass when I get the mail... at the mailbox at the end of the street. The honkey-tonk knocked me on my behind.

After one of my cats died from fright I used the sub as a defibruator. It worked but I think it cost the cat two lives.

I swore an earthquake occurred in Wisconsin during a 16hz only track. I mean geeze with no other music playing it was frighting... you can't hear 16hz!

I think my wife is going to kill me as I rattled the china hutch; probably chipped everything in it.

I'm going to call Hsu to complain....
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post #1095 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 04:23 PM
 
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I got my 3.3 today. My cats no longer come out. I broke a mirror after listening to organ music. Five pictures fell off the fireplace mantel. I can hear my bass when I get the mail... at the mailbox at the end of the street. The honkey-tonk knocked me on my behind.

After one of my cats died from fright I used the sub as a defibruator. It worked but I think it cost the cat two lives.

I swore an earthquake occurred in Wisconsin during a 16hz only track. I mean geeze with no other music playing it was frighting... you can't hear 16hz!

I think my wife is going to kill me as I rattled the china hutch; probably chipped everything in it.

I'm going to call Hsu to complain....

LOL
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post #1096 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 04:49 PM
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LOL

+1

Best post yet.

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post #1097 of 6281 Old 03-26-2008, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbrett View Post

If it isn't too much trouble, could someone give me the dimensions of the box the VTF-2 MK3 ships in? Mine is arriving this Friday, and if I can't fit it into my car, I'm going to have make alternative transportation plans very soon.

Thanks!

Just measured mine.
h-29
d-26.5
w-19.5
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post #1098 of 6281 Old 03-27-2008, 12:47 PM
 
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I just recieved the Turbocharger, and the ports DO NOT fit snuggly. I have tried everything that I know how. Infact when I try to fit it in the port, the front ports of the Charger pop out! What the heck is up??? Is there another way of doing this? The port does not fit!
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post #1099 of 6281 Old 03-27-2008, 11:38 PM
 
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I guess it isn't supposed to fit snuggly. I got it working and per Pete_Hsu's orders, placed my sub behind my sofa. The result.....


OMG!!!

I had no idea how powerful my sub is, I feel everything now. I should have placed it near field a long time ago!
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post #1100 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 06:52 AM
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePlungerMan View Post

Just measured mine.
h-29
d-26.5
w-19.5

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post #1101 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 06:57 AM
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Blulover, I just ordered the Turbo for my 3 3. The manual does not provide a lot of specific information on mating the 2.

Anything you can share in the way of tips?

Did you add the turbo before moving it? Was there a difference. I have my 3 3 12' left corner in front of me and am pretty much stuck with that location.

Thanks,.
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post #1102 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 08:51 AM
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Thanks!

Thanks came to late. It therefore is rejected and consequently a moot point.
JK
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post #1103 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 11:13 AM
 
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Blulover, I just ordered the Turbo for my 3 3. The manual does not provide a lot of specific information on mating the 2.

Anything you can share in the way of tips?

Did you add the turbo before moving it? Was there a difference. I have my 3 3 12' left corner in front of me and am pretty much stuck with that location.

Thanks,.

Apparently, the Turbocharger does not snap into the port like the port plug does. It however covers the port hole without being snug, aided by a piece of foam on the Turbocharger ports, which keeps air from escaping. There is also a friction pad that keeps the Turbocharger from moving.

The difference is instantly noticable, especially when I followed Pete_Hu's advice and placed the sub behind my sofa. OMG! It is truly amazing to feel the power of LFE. It would give you a backache or a back massage depending on your oppinion of it.
I was watching Man On Fire last night on Blu-ray, the movie is LFE rich, I swear that it felt like someone dropped a 3 ton truck right on the floor!
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post #1104 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 11:41 AM
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Kewl ! I have to wait until Monday before mine arrives. Pete and the folks at HSU are absolutely a pleasure to deal with.

So I will spend the weekend running new speaker wire to the back spks. I guess 12 years ago I ran 24g wire but know better now so I am goinf to run 12g which is overkill for a 48' run but will be ok if I ever run 4 or 2 ohm spks in the future.

I do not need the tubo upgrade but figured for the cost with 30 days of the 3 3 purchase it is a nice to have.
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post #1105 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

I have tried multiple times on 2 different computers...with a total of 4 different sound cards and have yet to be able to get REW running properly. Sometimes I think I got the soundcard cal correct..then I go to do measurements and get odd results...and I can run 4 measurements in a row and get 4 drastically different plots...getting either a "input to low", "input to high", or "impulse peak not where it should be" errors. I just do not know what my issue is but considering I get such odd and random results I do not trust the accuracy.

Which is why I am going to do this manually..hopefully get to it this weekend.

Did you use the setup guide to calibrate the soundcard, SPL meter, etc.?
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post #1106 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluLover View Post

I just recieved the Turbocharger, and the ports DO NOT fit snuggly. I have tried everything that I know how. Infact when I try to fit it in the port, the front ports of the Charger pop out! What the heck is up??? Is there another way of doing this? The port does not fit!

Take a look at my older post last week. I asked Pete the same question and he responded with it does not have to flush with the 3.3 just as long as no air leaks.
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post #1107 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 06:07 PM
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HehHeh... OK, I retract my thank you.

For future reference, in order to fit a VTF2.3 in a 3rd generation Acura TL, you need to remove the inner box from the outside box, and then it barely fits in the front passenger seat. Driving home in rush hour traffic was a bit of a challenge with a giant subwoofer box blocking my vision.

Since then I've only had time to hook it up and listen a little bit, and it really isn't dialed in yet, but so far it does sound sweet with my B&W 683s. Should sound even better with calibration. I'm happy I joined the HSU club.

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Thanks came to late. It therefore is rejected and consequently a moot point.
JK

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post #1108 of 6281 Old 03-28-2008, 10:04 PM
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HehHeh... OK, I retract my thank you.

For future reference, in order to fit a VTF2.3 in a 3rd generation Acura TL, you need to remove the inner box from the outside box, and then it barely fits in the front passenger seat. Driving home in rush hour traffic was a bit of a challenge with a giant subwoofer box blocking my vision.

Since then I've only had time to hook it up and listen a little bit, and it really isn't dialed in yet, but so far it does sound sweet with my B&W 683s. Should sound even better with calibration. I'm happy I joined the HSU club.

Yeah i thought about that double box thing latter. i also thought you could take it out and with some padding get it in there and fold up the boxes.

I have the BW 683's to. I put my sub gain at 9 oclock and ran audessy with a Onkyo 705 and it hit real well. First time was 1045 with audessy and it hit to hard.
I returned that 705 and have a Dennon 988, i went at half power (per manual suggestion) and it was nice but audessy had it set to -12, the max low. Taking the 988 back and getting a 3808 denon, with that i will go at 915 and probably get somewhere around -6.
Good luck getting your system going.
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post #1109 of 6281 Old 03-29-2008, 07:45 AM
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Good taste.... I have a 3808 as well, but it's downstairs on my HT. Its a great receiver, you'll love it. It is very versatile, but that also means it has a steep learning curve.

I'm driving the 683s with a Cambridge Audio 540R v2 running in direct stereo mode in a 11x13 room. Nice clean amp with a ton of head room. I've cranked it quite high and never hit the point where it started clipping. Sounds even better now that all the low end is being taken care of by the HSU 2.3.

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Originally Posted by ThePlungerMan View Post

Yeah i thought about that double box thing latter. i also thought you could take it out and with some padding get it in there and fold up the boxes.

I have the BW 683's to. I put my sub gain at 9 oclock and ran audessy with a Onkyo 705 and it hit real well. First time was 1045 with audessy and it hit to hard.
I returned that 705 and have a Dennon 988, i went at half power (per manual suggestion) and it was nice but audessy had it set to -12, the max low. Taking the 988 back and getting a 3808 denon, with that i will go at 915 and probably get somewhere around -6.
Good luck getting your system going.

zbrett is offline  
post #1110 of 6281 Old 03-29-2008, 07:56 AM
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One question... where did you set the crossover on the receiver? I'm still playing, but it seems to sound better fairly low, like 40 hz. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePlungerMan View Post

Yeah i thought about that double box thing latter. i also thought you could take it out and with some padding get it in there and fold up the boxes.

I have the BW 683's to. I put my sub gain at 9 oclock and ran audessy with a Onkyo 705 and it hit real well. First time was 1045 with audessy and it hit to hard.
I returned that 705 and have a Dennon 988, i went at half power (per manual suggestion) and it was nice but audessy had it set to -12, the max low. Taking the 988 back and getting a 3808 denon, with that i will go at 915 and probably get somewhere around -6.
Good luck getting your system going.

zbrett is offline  
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