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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Kevin12586's Avatar Kevin12586
06:35 AM Liked: 17
post #1591 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 4,059
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Nope ... this is an indication that you had the sub's gain control *way* too high ... which would also explain the popping/bottoming.

Agreed

Turn the gain knob on the sub to the first marking and re-run audyssey. You seemed to have had the sub up WAY TOO HOT. It would help if you had an SPL meter so that after you run audyssey you could check your sub level and make sure you are at 75db.

But all indications are that your sub level was way too hot which is why you were getting all the popping.
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
08:19 AM Liked: 15
post #1592 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 1,284
Joined: Jul 2007
Not the best way but...

Put your sub and MBM at the 9 o clock mark and leave the receiver gain at -2~ -1db or so...If you dont have a rat shack meter.
Or at the precise setting where you are bottoming the driver go back about -5db from it on the receiver gain setting....(dont touch the back of the subs,mbm settings once it is at 9 oclock.)
King_David's Avatar King_David
12:26 PM Liked: 10
post #1593 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 733
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My MBM's gain is at 10 Oclock, and my 3.3 is at 9 Oclock.

I lowered my volume in the reciever to -5db and the popping stopped. Should i raise it back to 0db and then lower my gain on the 2 subs?
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
12:58 PM Liked: 15
post #1594 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 1,284
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THe MBM gain is too high...
Yeah you can try that.. Overall If you have the MBM nearfield and the 3.3 farfield you should(or I should say can) have the 3.3 at lets say 9:30 and the MBM at say 8:30...
The idea is that since you will be setting the VTF from 50 or 45hz-down (whatever) you wont be able to localize it as easily as the MBM which is closer to you, so it makes sense not to raise the MBM gain too high(and because the gain on the mbm is very sensitive too)

Start at 0db on your receiver... sub at 9:00 o clock.With the MBM with a very little less gain(8:30).
Let me know if you liked it...It is that what really matters...JEJEJ
AFter you do this play a movie that put the VTF3 MK3 to work... say WOTW.CHeck if your sub pops at your desired volume level(preferably play it a bit louder that you would normally) . If it does then on the receiver only back off say 5 dbs...else you are set for now...
bsoko2's Avatar bsoko2
02:40 PM Liked: 74
post #1595 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 4,399
Joined: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

THe MBM gain is too high...
Yeah you can try that.. Overall If you have the MBM nearfield and the 3.3 farfield you should(or I should say can) have the 3.3 at lets say 9:30 and the MBM at say 8:30...
The idea is that since you will be setting the VTF from 50 or 45hz-down (whatever) you wont be able to localize it as easily as the MBM which is closer to you, so it makes sense not to raise the MBM gain too high(and because the gain on the mbm is very sensitive too)

Start at 0db on your receiver... sub at 9:00 o clock.With the MBM with a very little less gain(8:30).
Let me know if you liked it...It is that what really matters...JEJEJ
AFter you do this play a movie that put the VTF3 MK3 to work... say WOTW.CHeck if your sub pops at your desired volume level(preferably play it a bit louder that you would normally) . If it does then on the receiver only back off say 5 dbs...else you are set for now...


He really needs to get a spl meter and set his subs up properly. Using the pink tones for this setup on the reciever is a good place to start.

Bill
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
02:52 PM Liked: 15
post #1596 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 1,284
Joined: Jul 2007
Yeah, but he doesnt have one. These subs sound very good even when they are not entirely calibrated though.
But yeah if you can buy one King go for it...
King_David's Avatar King_David
05:22 PM Liked: 10
post #1597 of 6532
07-31-2008 | Posts: 733
Joined: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

THe MBM gain is too high...
Yeah you can try that.. Overall If you have the MBM nearfield and the 3.3 farfield you should(or I should say can) have the 3.3 at lets say 9:30 and the MBM at say 8:30...
The idea is that since you will be setting the VTF from 50 or 45hz-down (whatever) you wont be able to localize it as easily as the MBM which is closer to you, so it makes sense not to raise the MBM gain too high(and because the gain on the mbm is very sensitive too)

Start at 0db on your receiver... sub at 9:00 o clock.With the MBM with a very little less gain(8:30).
Let me know if you liked it...It is that what really matters...JEJEJ
AFter you do this play a movie that put the VTF3 MK3 to work... say WOTW.CHeck if your sub pops at your desired volume level(preferably play it a bit louder that you would normally) . If it does then on the receiver only back off say 5 dbs...else you are set for now...

Thanks a lot. I follwed your advice. I set the VTF-3.3's gain at slightly below 9 Oclock, and the MBM at 8:30. I even reset the gain in the reciever to 0db. I put on WOTW, and ZERO pop. I even raised the volume on the reciever higher, and the same result...NO POP. The bass is tighter, the LFE rocks the room, and there is no more boominess. Thanks buddy.
King_David's Avatar King_David
01:04 AM Liked: 10
post #1598 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 733
Joined: Jul 2008
UPDATE: I actually had to raise the gain again because the LFE was not strong enough. i raised the VTF-3.3 to 9:00, and the MBM to 9:00 as well.
Kevin12586's Avatar Kevin12586
06:31 AM Liked: 17
post #1599 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 4,059
Joined: Feb 2005
As someone else mentioned, you need to get an SPL meter. Right now you are just guessing, it may sound good right now, but after a proper calibration it can sound great.

You spent the money for the new receiver, 3.3 and MBM, so why not use their full potential by spending an extra $30-$50 and get an SPL and fully calibrate?

Good luck and enjoy
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
08:00 AM Liked: 15
post #1600 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 1,284
Joined: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_David View Post

UPDATE: I actually had to raise the gain again because the LFE was not strong enough. i raised the VTF-3.3 to 9:00, and the MBM to 9:00 as well.


Good to hear that man...!!!
Yeah, I said 9:30 on the 3.3 and 8:30 for the MBM...

One more thing... What is your room size and how far you are from the MBM, and 3.3?

Just my opinion here:
I really think that for normal people, and for HT use, the SPL meter tool is not a definitive requirement.At the end I just trust my ears! The system can actually sound very good without it. You just have to experiment and spend more time on trial and error....jeje For music the calibration gets more important.
cschang's Avatar cschang
08:05 AM Liked: 85
post #1601 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 14,791
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

As someone else mentioned, you need to get an SPL meter. Right now you are just guessing, it may sound good right now, but after a proper calibration it can sound great.

And to add to Kevin's post.....most people that try and calibrate by ear set the subwoofer level much higher than it should be, which is probably the reason you are bottoming the sub.
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
08:10 AM Liked: 15
post #1602 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

And to add to Kevin's post.....most people that try and calibrate by ear set the subwoofer level much higher than it should be, which is probably the reason you are bottoming the sub.

THat is why I am saying the sub dial setting...On 0db on his receiver with the dial specs I gave him, he wont bottom it unless he plays it near reference...
With WOTW and LFE hot movies...
The 3.3 starts to bottom at -10db on that receiver(Onkyo 705), 0db on LFE receiver gain, flat eq settings, 10:00 o clock on sub dial(more or less...)
bsoko2's Avatar bsoko2
10:18 AM Liked: 74
post #1603 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 4,399
Joined: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

THat is why I am saying the sub dial setting...On 0db on his receiver with the dial specs I gave him, he wont bottom it unless he plays it near reference...
With WOTW and LFE hot movies...
The 3.3 starts to bottom at -10db on that receiver(Onkyo 705), 0db on LFE receiver gain, flat eq settings, 10:00 o clock on sub dial(more or less...)

He needs to set his system by meter, then by ear. DrPainMD site (I posted for him ealier) can educate him on the ins and outs of setting up his system.

Bill
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
10:45 AM Liked: 15
post #1604 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 1,284
Joined: Jul 2007
It would be easier that way, I agree at least on that.
Cmon Bill I am just trying to help save him a few $$$, but definately with the meter it will be better...
Kevin12586's Avatar Kevin12586
11:10 AM Liked: 17
post #1605 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 4,059
Joined: Feb 2005
So he can spend about $1600 for the sub, MBM and receiver but $30 is pushing it?
a3plew's Avatar a3plew
11:30 AM Liked: 10
post #1606 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 223
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

So he can spend about $1600 for the sub, MBM and receiver but $30 is pushing it?

I dont know about the other guy but I cant afford a spl meter right now. I have the vtf3.3 turbo and mbm-12. Money is tight right now lol. I'm a pretty broke college student now. Although I'm very happy even without a spl meter. But im slowly saving up for one.
thsmith's Avatar thsmith
11:47 AM Liked: 10
post #1607 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 355
Joined: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by a3plew View Post

I dont know about the other guy but I cant afford a spl meter right now. I have the vtf3.3 turbo and mbm-12. Money is tight right now lol. I'm a pretty broke college student now. Although I'm very happy even without a spl meter. But im slowly saving up for one.

OP could do what a couple of my friends and I did which was to all chip in on it (about $10) and pass it around. Never been any conflicts and sits idle most of the time.

Additional benifit we helped each other and learned, a little friendly competition too.
cacihome's Avatar cacihome
12:04 PM Liked: 15
post #1608 of 6532
08-01-2008 | Posts: 1,284
Joined: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by a3plew View Post

I dont know about the other guy but I cant afford a spl meter right now. I have the vtf3.3 turbo and mbm-12. Money is tight right now lol. I'm a pretty broke college student now. Although I'm very happy even without a spl meter. But im slowly saving up for one.

HAHAHA.

You see...
Not everyone has unlimited budget....
bori's Avatar bori
12:41 PM Liked: 84
post #1609 of 6532
08-11-2008 | Posts: 2,928
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So I ran audyessy with the 50hz crossover engaged. I calibrated the subs with the test tone on the receiver to 75 dbs then ran audyessy, all this was done with the crossover engaged. If this is the wrong way do I calibrate the subs with the XO off using the spl and pink noise? After this is done then do I run audyessy with the XO off or on?
bori's Avatar bori
06:39 PM Liked: 84
post #1610 of 6532
08-11-2008 | Posts: 2,928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

So I ran audyessy with the 50hz crossover engaged. I calibrated the subs with the test tone on the receiver to 75 dbs then ran audyessy, all this was done with the crossover engaged. If this is the wrong way do I calibrate the subs with the XO off using the spl and pink noise? After this is done then do I run audyessy with the XO off or on?

Anyone?
Bailman's Avatar Bailman
04:07 AM Liked: 10
post #1611 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

So I ran audyessy with the 50hz crossover engaged. I calibrated the subs with the test tone on the receiver to 75 dbs then ran audyessy, all this was done with the crossover engaged. If this is the wrong way do I calibrate the subs with the XO off using the spl and pink noise? After this is done then do I run audyessy with the XO off or on?

Bori, Please include more information if you wish to get good advice i.e. what sub, mains, amplifier or receiver etc. If you do not have large mains with a separate amplifier I would x/o @ 80Hz.
bori's Avatar bori
04:33 AM Liked: 84
post #1612 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 2,928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailman View Post

Bori, Please include more information if you wish to get good advice i.e. what sub, mains, amplifier or receiver etc. If you do not have large mains with a separate amplifier I would x/o @ 80Hz.


Duel HSU 3.3 with turbos, MBM-12 and Onkyo 805 with Infinity Beta 50s.
Bailman's Avatar Bailman
06:25 AM Liked: 10
post #1613 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

Duel HSU 3.3 with turbos, MBM-12 and Onkyo 805 with Infinity Beta 50s.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799936

Please have a look at this thread. I believe they specifically address your questions on page four.
bsoko2's Avatar bsoko2
11:49 AM Liked: 74
post #1614 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 4,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailman View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799936

Please have a look at this thread. I believe they specifically address your questions on page four.

I have posted on that page and was told that my method of seting up the MBM's with the true sub is not right. I know that the information that I posted works fine for me. So make of it what you will and maybe those that claim that I'm not correct will post for the rest of you on how they see it done.

Bill
bori's Avatar bori
01:59 PM Liked: 84
post #1615 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 2,928
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That is why I am asking because I saw your posts before going back and forth on the correct way to set it up. I actually set mine up the way you did. I just want to make sure its the correct way.
bsoko2's Avatar bsoko2
02:02 PM Liked: 74
post #1616 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 4,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

That is why I am asking because I saw your posts before going back and forth on the correct way to set it up. I actually set mine up the way you did. I just want to make sure its the correct way.

If it works for you, it is YOUR correct way. Go to: http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=4003 as this has been discussed and the conclusion is, that it does work.

Bill
King_David's Avatar King_David
05:11 PM Liked: 10
post #1617 of 6532
08-12-2008 | Posts: 733
Joined: Jul 2008
I am considering some tower speakers and center from BIC to complement my VTF-3.3 and MBM set up. Do any of you guys have BIC speakers? I hear they were designed by Dr. Hsu himself.
Quote:


All Acoustech models were designed and engineered with the assistance of the highly regarded Hsu Research engineering team.

http://www.bicacoustechspeakers.com/...d=306&offset=1
http://www.bicacoustechspeakers.com/...d=307&offset=1

Is there any advantage to using ALL towers for fronts, surr, and back surr speakers?
cyberbri's Avatar cyberbri
12:57 AM Liked: 53
post #1618 of 6532
08-13-2008 | Posts: 8,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

If it works for you, it is YOUR correct way. Go to: http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=4003 as this has been discussed and the conclusion is, that it does work.

Bill


Bori,

See my post on that thread, #33.
bori's Avatar bori
01:02 AM Liked: 84
post #1619 of 6532
08-13-2008 | Posts: 2,928
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So after I do that when I run audyessy do I have the XO engaged?
cyberbri's Avatar cyberbri
01:09 AM Liked: 53
post #1620 of 6532
08-13-2008 | Posts: 8,095
Joined: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post

So after I do that when I run audyessy do I have the XO engaged?


To run the eq to flatten out the final response of how the subs interact with each other in the room, here's what I would do:

--With the sub off, calibrate the MBM to the same level as the speakers
--With the MBM off, and the subs' xo switched off, calibrate them to the same level as the MBM and the speakers (since you have two, run them at the same time for calibrating, but when adjust so the gain knob is same for both of them)
--The above two steps match the level of the two subs to the same level, because you are matching their output at the same frequencies in the sub test tone
--Engage the subs' xo, turn all subs on, and calibrate the combined output of the sub and the MBM to match the level of the speakers
--Run the auto-eq
--Re-run the test tones to see if you need to readjust the sub level based on the auto-eq making cuts to frequencies (which will bring down your overall sub SPL level). You may not need to do this if part of the process includes setting the speaker/sub levels automatically as well.


You can eq individual subs separately, but when you introduce the output from all the subs, it probably won't be flat anymore due to the acoustics of the room and how the frequencies boost or cancel each other out at different spots in the room. That's why you eq the combined output.

I don't have an MBM, but when I eq my sub (3.2) manually, I run the test tones through the receiver so it goes through the main speakers and the sub. Otherwise I could eq the sub flat, but it wouldn't be flat once the bass from the mains is combined with it (due to the crossover slopes).
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