WOTW--Lightning Scene--Subwoofer Test - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Be sure to read this because I changed some things!!!!

First, you need War of the Worlds and I want you to use the DTS track.
(If you do not have a DTS decoder, then I guess you'll have to do DD).

Second...the entire scene is from 15:25 to 16:40, but I found that the strongest SPL always came from the same spot...15:52. Tom Cruise says "oh say can you see" and then BOOM it hits!!!!

Also...timestamp 16:13 and 16:30 They both produced some very LOW frequencies....not as much SPL...but a good measure of the LOW end of our subs..

THRID----PLEASE KNOW THIS IS A LOUD TRACK, so start your testing at a lesser volume....like -15db MV!!!!

Fourth--I attached the exact waterfall and it is labeled....be sure to read the bottom

Here is the waterfall ...

For this thread I think we should post the exact timestamp of the scene that gives us our HIGHEST SPL too...
____________________________________________________________ _____

So take out Your SPL meter and play Chapter 4 15:25 to 16:40. Lightning scene.


Some things I learned to be sure of when using the SPL meter.
1. Use C-weighting FAST for this peak test
2. Use the MAX button if you have a digital Meter

____________________________________________________________ _____

I'm curious about a few things.
1. db registered using C-rating Fast and MAX (if avalible) from Listening Position...Just post exactly what the SPL shows
2. db from 1 meter away
3. **TIMESTAMP of the HIGHEST reading and did you use DTS or DD**********
4. Room size cubic feet
5. What subwoofer set up are you running?
6. What setting of Master Volume and what do you have your sub dialed in at?
****Note....when running this test turn off main speakers if possible so you are just measuring the subwoofer output


BGILLYJCU----Using 16hz tune and main speakers OFF
1. 106db LP
2. 111db 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
5. A single SVS 16-46Plus
6. Master Volume -15db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

1. 108db LP
2. 114db 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
5. A single SVS 16-46Plus
6. Master Volume -13db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

1. 110db LP
2. 115db 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
5. A single SVS 16-46Plus
6. Master Volume -11db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

1. 112db LP
2. 117db 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
5. A single SVS 16-46Plus
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

1. 101db from LP
2. xxxxx
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
5. A single SVS 16-46Plus
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

1. 107db from LP
2. xxxxx
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
5. A single SVS 16-46Plus
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)


Pittdog1
1. 108 @ LP
2. 110 @ 1 meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 1640 cuft (4' doorway into 12'X12' kitchen-no door to seal)
5. Klipsch Sub 12
6. Master volume set to -15 (calibrated to 75db @ 0 mv) sub is cal'd at 77db.

1. 111 @ LP
2. 113 @ 1 meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 1640 cuft (4' doorway into 12'X12' kitchen-no door to seal)
5. Klipsch Sub 12
6. Master Volume -11 (calibrated to 75db @ 0 mv) sub is cal'd at 77db.


Gordan1080p
1. 114dB @ LP
2. 118dB @1m
3. 15:52 in DTS
4. 4,800 ft3 with a stairwell opening to upstairs
5. Single VTF-3 MK3 (18Hz tuning no turbo)
6. Master volume at -10dB, sub only


frockc
1. 102db analog/ 105db digital LP
2. 110db analog/ 113db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -15db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 104db analog/ 107db digital LP
2. 114db analog/ 116db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -12db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 105db analog/ 108db digital LP
2. 114db analog/ 116db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 91db analog/ 94db digital LP
2. 95db analog/ 101db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -15db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 95db analog/ 99db digital LP
2. 100db analog/ 105db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -12db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 98db analog/ 101db digital LP
2. 103db analog/ 107db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 96db analog/ 100db digital LP
2. 106db analog/ 108db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -15db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 100db analog/ 103db digital LP
2. 108db analog/ 112db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -12db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 104db analog/ 106db digital LP
2. 111db analog/ 115db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

MKtheater
1. 122db LP(8 feet)
2. N/A 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (sealed)
5. Dual 18 inch horn loaded subs with a Sampson S-2000
6. Master Volume -5db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) and then added second sub(that added 5 db's)


1. 126-7 db LP(8 feet)analog meter
2. N/A 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (sealed)
5. Dual 18 inch horn loaded subs with a Sampson S-2000
6. Master Volume 0 db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) and then added second sub(that added 5 db's)

1. 104db LP(8 feet)
2. N/A 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (sealed)
5. Dual 18 inch horn loaded subs with a Sampson S-2000
6. Master Volume -5db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) and then added second sub(that added 5 db's)

1. 110db LP(8 feet)
2. N/A 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (sealed)
5. Dual 18 inch horn loaded subs with a Sampson S-2000
6. Master Volume 0db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) and then added second sub(that added 5 db's)

1. 122db LP(8 feet)
2. N/A 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (sealed)
5. Dual 18 inch horn loaded subs with a Sampson S-2000
6. Master Volume -5db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) and then added second sub(that added 5 db's)

1. 126db LP(8 feet)
2. N/A 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 2300cuft (sealed)
5. Dual 18 inch horn loaded subs with a Sampson S-2000
6. Master Volume 0db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) and then added second sub(that added 5 db's)


DrPainMD
1. 102db LP
2. 110db 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 1310cuft (sealed)
5. A single SVS 25-31PCi (22hz tuned)
6. Master Volume -10db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected)


LongFellowFan
1. 106db at listening position
2. ***db at one meter
3. Timestamp 15:52
4. 1408 cubic feet. not sealed
5. SVS PB-10-ISD
6. MV -7dB sub cal at 75db at -7db.

1. 106db at listening postition
2. ***db at one meter
3. Timestamp 16:13
4. 1408 cubic feet not sealed
5. SVS PB-10-ISD
6. MV -7db sub cal at 75db at -7db

1. 108db at listening postition
2. ***db at one meter
3. Timstamp 16:30
4. 1408 cubic feet not sealed
5. SVS PB-10-ISD
6. MV -7db sub cal at 75db at -7db.


Kingrsl
1. 98dB on analog meter
2. haven't measured at 1m
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 2750cf, open to hallway
5. Hsu VTF-2 Mk3, Max Extension mode (1 port plugged)
6. "0" MV, sub calibrated +3dB

1. 88dB on analog meter
2. haven't measured at 1m
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 2750cf, open to hallway
5. Hsu VTF-2 Mk3, Max Extension mode (1 port plugged)
6. "0" MV, sub calibrated +3dB


Mojomike
1. 114 db in Listening area, about 14 ft.
2. 126 db 1 meter from ported sub, Behringer lighting up like a Christmas tree
3. 6120 cu ft. open room.
4. Two SB12Plus's and a 2 x 10" TC1000 6.5 cu ft. ported box, Behringer EP2500 powered.
5. Receiver test tones 75db at MV.



jmcomp124
1. 111dB LP is about 15ft
2. n/a
3. 6000-7000cubic feet (est)
4. Dual JL113
5. Master volume is reference (0dB), sub calibrated about 7dB hot.

LL

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post #2 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple things I wanted to say but didn't belong in the main post.

I tried 12hz tune and it was awesome with the end of that scene where the bass dips ULTRA SUBSONIC.

The problem was I didn't have enough headroom to get any higher than like 101-102 in that area! Dual 12hz Tuned 16-46+ would be a different story

For the 15:52 scene the 12 and 16hz tune were exactly the same score....the bass for that timestamp is a large area from about 18hz up to 50hz....So this really tests the range of the sub as well...

When I took it to -8db MV I could tell that was it....I ran out of headroom.....values stayed the same and any more volume would just not have been good for my sub.

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post #3 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

A couple things I wanted to say but didn't belong in the main post.

I tried 12hz tune and it was awesome with the end of that scene where the bass dips ULTRA SUBSONIC.

The problem was I didn't have enough headroom to get any higher than like 101-102 in that area! Dual 12hz Tuned 16-46+ would be a different story

For the 15:52 scene the 12 and 16hz tune were exactly the same score....the bass for that timestamp is a large area from about 18hz up to 50hz....So this really tests the range of the sub as well...

When I took it to -8db MV I could tell that was it....I ran out of headroom.....values stayed the same and any more volume would just not have been good for my sub.

Get this man a second SVS 16-46+!!!

If only SVS had a deal where you could buy the subwoofer and pay no interest for 12-months, you would be set...

Life is good.
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post #4 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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it isn't even that.

I'll be super honest with everyone.

I'm 27, single--just bought a house and my Credit Card balance right now is $4000 that needs to be paid off by September so I don't get killed with all the back interest. (All $4000 went towards the house and doing improvement and furniture)

THEN on top of that I've been paying CASH for my Masters Degree which will all be over this semester and I'll be done with that. SOOOOOO I'm hoping by Summer or Fall to have enough "free" cash flow (aka credit card space) to buy that 2nd 16-46+.

Trust me it will happen....I just have to be smart about money right now...everyone knows the first year you buy your first house money is super tight! Plus this summer I plan to put on a new Garage roof....add a Deck or Patio to the back.....AND refinish the basement for the Theater room...

So you see I still need ALOT of money for summer projects

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post #5 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

it isn't even that.

I'll be super honest with everyone.

I'm 27, single--just bought a house and my Credit Card balance right now is $4000 that needs to be paid off by September so I don't get killed with all the back interest. (All $4000 went towards the house and doing improvement and furniture)

THEN on top of that I've been paying CASH for my Masters Degree which will all be over this semester and I'll be done with that. SOOOOOO I'm hoping by Summer or Fall to have enough "free" cash flow (aka credit card space) to buy that 2nd 16-46+.

Trust me it will happen....I just have to be smart about money right now...everyone knows the first year you buy your first house money is super tight! Plus this summer I plan to put on a new Garage roof....add a Deck or Patio to the back.....AND refinish the basement for the Theater room...

So you see I still need ALOT of money for summer projects

Thanks for the fine work young man ! For fun could you look at the scene where the tripods appear on the hill above the crowds getting on the ferry ! One is the steps, the other is the horn.

Art

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post #6 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Thanks for the fine work young man ! For fun could you look at the scene where the tripods appear on the hill above the crowds getting on the ferry ! One is the steps, the other is the horn.

Art


Art I think what I'm going to do with WOTW is break it up. This thread will cover just the Lightning scene.

Then I will do a:

"pod emerging scene" Thread

"Heat Ray" thread

and even the one you just said "hill thread with steps and horn"


I think it is best for keepign track of data if we break it up and focus on one peice at a time WOTW is truly one of those HT and Subwoofer lovers dream....so I think its fair we focus multiple threads on it to truly analyze the great data we have to work with!! Plus hey, we always need something to do next week

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post #7 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 07:38 PM
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bgillyjcu,
If you get a chance, check out World Trade Center. There is a scene where the Port Authority are inside a building getting briefed when the first plane hits. I think it's like 8:45 in the rolecall chapter. It's not long, drawn out rubling (like when the towers are coming down) but it sure packs a punch.
Oh, and that whole money being tight the first year is true, and then it carries over to the second, and third, then kids... Things are always tight in one way or another no matter what your income. Your lifestyle is what changes and the toys just get bigger.
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post #8 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 08:06 PM
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I've requested WTC but noone wants to post the charts here due to the nature of the movie IMHO.The first collapse is crazy on LFE at least in the theatre!
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post #9 of 129 Old 03-01-2007, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

it isn't even that.

I'll be super honest with everyone.

I'm 27, single--just bought a house and my Credit Card balance right now is $4000 that needs to be paid off by September so I don't get killed with all the back interest. (All $4000 went towards the house and doing improvement and furniture)

THEN on top of that I've been paying CASH for my Masters Degree which will all be over this semester and I'll be done with that. SOOOOOO I'm hoping by Summer or Fall to have enough "free" cash flow (aka credit card space) to buy that 2nd 16-46+.

Trust me it will happen....I just have to be smart about money right now...everyone knows the first year you buy your first house money is super tight! Plus this summer I plan to put on a new Garage roof....add a Deck or Patio to the back.....AND refinish the basement for the Theater room...

So you see I still need ALOT of money for summer projects

Good work Brad. Don't stop with a Masters though. Bite the bullet and finish your PhD. If I were in your shoes, that's what I would do. If circumstances allow, I would go back to school. Listen to this wise old man. I am just 4 years older than you though .
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post #10 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Man I went to sleep.......and got up this morning hoping to see a bunch of people posting numbers since this scene is probably one of the most popular around for us subwoofer heads....

Be sure to look at the attachment. It is detailed and gives exact timestamps...the same as the directions...


Jai...PhD.....we'll see. After the masters the focus is on TEACHING for a while and making some money....then maybe I'll do the PhD. Dr. would be a sweeeeet part of my name

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post #11 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 07:36 AM
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Love reading this stuff and thought i'd throw my #'s in as well since i have a not mentioned yet sub here or in your other thread. I have a Klipsch Sub 12. Measurements made with a digital Radio shack meter with no corrections. I think it did pretty well.

1.108db @ LP
2.110 @ 1 meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 1640 cuft (4' doorway into 12'X12' kitchen-no door to seal)
5. Klipsch Sub 12
6. Master volume set to -15 (calibrated to 75db @ 0 mv) sub is cal'd 2db hotter at 77db.

1. 111 @ LP
2. 113 @ 1 meter
3. same
4. same
5.same
6. Master Volume -11

Hope this is what you're looking for. It looks like it's starting to compress a little @ -11 from what i've read here, but to be honest i usually don't listen to much at more than -15 on the MV, and -11 was almost scary!! If you want me to try -9 to see if it compresses more i will do it though.

If it only takes one match to start a forestfire, then why does it take the whole#$%@!&* box to start a camp fire for the kids?!?!? PITTDOG1
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post #12 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 07:57 AM
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1. 114dB @ LP
2. 118dB @1m
3. 15:52 in DTS
4. 4,800 ft3 with a stairwell opening to upstairs
5. Single VTF-3 MK3 (18Hz tuning no turbo)
6. Master volume at -10dB, sub only

GL
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post #13 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 07:58 AM
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Didn't think about this earlier, check out this pic, kinda reminds you of one of the tripods don't it, lol.


If it only takes one match to start a forestfire, then why does it take the whole#$%@!&* box to start a camp fire for the kids?!?!? PITTDOG1
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post #14 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL that picture is priceless for this thread!!!

Try -9db only if you are comfortable with it.....I'm sure we would all like to see if compression sets in, but we don't want you to damage your subwoofer...

If you can chime in on the 16:13 and 16:30 timestamps as well since they are very very low frequencies only and that will really show how we are doing down deep.

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post #15 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 01:25 PM
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aight here we go.... i actually did measurements through my digital out and analog out of my HD DVD XA2... they are calibrated 11dB apart... i also left speakers on because its a pain to disconnect them...

very old digital meter (6 years)...

1. 102db analog/ 105db digital LP
2. 110db analog/ 113db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -15db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 104db analog/ 107db digital LP
2. 114db analog/ 116db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -12db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 105db analog/ 108db digital LP
2. 114db analog/ 116db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 91db analog/ 94db digital LP
2. 95db analog/ 101db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -15db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 95db analog/ 99db digital LP
2. 100db analog/ 105db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -12db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 98db analog/ 101db digital LP
2. 103db analog/ 107db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:13 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 96db analog/ 100db digital LP
2. 106db analog/ 108db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -15db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 100db analog/ 103db digital LP
2. 108db analog/ 112db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master V -12db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

1. 104db analog/ 106db digital LP
2. 111db analog/ 115db digital 1meter
3. Timestamp 16:30 in DTS
4. 4000-4500cuft first floor of townhome open to upstairs
5. A single JL fathom 113
6. Master Volume -9db Sub calibrated to 75db on SPL meter (uncorrected) at 0MV

it seems that if these scenesare diff freq my sub is compressing at certain freq and not at others... what u guys think??
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post #16 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Thanks for the fine work young man ! For fun could you look at the scene where the tripods appear on the hill above the crowds getting on the ferry ! One is the steps, the other is the horn.

Art

The ferry scene is pretty intense. It makes the walls and windows of my house shake and vibrate a fairly moderate levels. The pod emergence also offers some pretty brutal subsonics.

Welcome... to the house of Rock and Jazz !
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post #17 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 02:10 PM
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1. 114dB @ LP
2. 118dB @1m
3. 15:52 in DTS
4. 4,800 ft3 with a stairwell opening to upstairs
5. Single VTF-3 MK3 (18Hz tuning no turbo)
6. Master volume at -10dB, sub only

GL

This is very impressive for a sub $1K subwoofer. How far away Gordon is your LP from the sub? Could you also post Master volume -7, -4 and 0 if possible at the same tuning (18Hz).
Three of these units co-located will be about an unbelievable 123dB at LP in a huge 4800 cu ft room. You are making me think a lot about the 3.3.
Also could you post in the Finding Nemo Darla thread too (sorry if you already did).
Thanks,
-Jai
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post #18 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Frockc

Looking at waterfall chart carefully you will notice that the 15:52 time stamp is pretty much all 25hz-50hz bass....it is very strong throughout that region

Looking at the other 2 timestamps, 16:13 and 16:30 you will see that there are actually 2 levels of bass a major 15-20hz region and also a 3-11hz region.

I doubt that many of us are even touching that 3-11hz region subsonic stuff....but we are infact recording the 15-20hz bass which is a VERY VERY hard scene to reproduce for any subwoofer.

You will experience compression at different points with these scenes because of the difference in bass frequencies for the scene.

looking at your data for teh 15:52 scene I'd say that -12db was the point before compression....once you upped the volume more the numbers flatten thus showing us signs that there is compression

On the other hand...the other 2 scenes 16:13 and 16:30 show us that at -9db you still had a good gain in SPL...so I don't think it was compressing at that point, but I have a feeling any further increase in master volume would push to compression for these scenes too...

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post #19 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Frockc

Looking at waterfall chart carefully you will notice that the 15:52 time stamp is pretty much all 25hz-50hz bass....it is very strong throughout that region

Looking at the other 2 timestamps, 16:13 and 16:30 you will see that there are actually 2 levels of bass a major 15-20hz region and also a 3-11hz region.

I doubt that many of us are even touching that 3-11hz region subsonic stuff....but we are infact recording the 15-20hz bass which is a VERY VERY hard scene to reproduce for any subwoofer.

You will experience compression at different points with these scenes because of the difference in bass frequencies for the scene.

looking at your data for teh 15:52 scene I'd say that -12db was the point before compression....once you upped the volume more the numbers flatten thus showing us signs that there is compression

On the other hand...the other 2 scenes 16:13 and 16:30 show us that at -9db you still had a good gain in SPL...so I don't think it was compressing at that point, but I have a feeling any further increase in master volume would push to compression for these scenes too...

You used the word compress 5 times here and I am glad you agreed to testing at different MV for compression. Aren't you? Your threads are getting more and more interesting to me my friend.
Thanks!
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post #20 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Frockc

Looking at waterfall chart carefully you will notice that the 15:52 time stamp is pretty much all 25hz-50hz bass....it is very strong throughout that region

Looking at the other 2 timestamps, 16:13 and 16:30 you will see that there are actually 2 levels of bass a major 15-20hz region and also a 3-11hz region.

I doubt that many of us are even touching that 3-11hz region subsonic stuff....but we are infact recording the 15-20hz bass which is a VERY VERY hard scene to reproduce for any subwoofer.

You will experience compression at different points with these scenes because of the difference in bass frequencies for the scene.

looking at your data for teh 15:52 scene I'd say that -12db was the point before compression....once you upped the volume more the numbers flatten thus showing us signs that there is compression

On the other hand...the other 2 scenes 16:13 and 16:30 show us that at -9db you still had a good gain in SPL...so I don't think it was compressing at that point, but I have a feeling any further increase in master volume would push to compression for these scenes too...

My reading into the numbers tells me that for 15:52, the sub compressed more and for 16:13 and 16:30 it scaled pretty well with minimal compression if any. Difference of 1dB in the numbers is pretty minimal and it still in the noise. The increment of +3dB is a good way to do it like done here.
Brad can you point me to the waterfall charts for these regions? The 30-50Hz region is the strong point for the JL as compression kicks in stronger at 20Hz and 25Hz and below when pushed hard. The compression effects can be seen F113 GP measurements.

Intuitively, this tells me that the 16:13 and 16:30 should have some strong material 30Hz and above. Does it? Anything below 15 would be ignored (if there is a built in high pass filter). At timestamp 15:52 you said there is some strong 25-50Hz stuff. I can see why this would compress because there is stuff at 25Hz. Again I am specualting a lot here so some of this may not hold water.
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post #21 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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It is attached the to first post.....scroll to the bottom of the first post here.

I wish it was at the top...

Maybe you could post it as a picture for us instead of an attachment

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post #22 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 03:50 PM
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Look at the HSU 3.2 Max SPL chart. The orange line shows that it has pretty good scaling at 25Hz. At 105dB input TrueRTA it still delivers. At 110dB it compresses at 25Hz. Since 15:52 has 25Hz material the 3.3 shined. I know I am comparing 3.3 to 3.2 but I think the 3.3 should do as good or better than the 3.2.
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post #23 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

It is attached the to first post.....scroll to the bottom of the first post here.

I wish it was at the top...

Maybe you could post it as a picture for us instead of an attachment

What does the blue, red and other colors mean? I couldn't find the legend showing what levels these indicate. Is blue the highest? The confusing part is that some use pink and some use read for high levels.
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post #24 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

This is very impressive for a sub $1K subwoofer. How far away Gordon is your LP from the sub? Could you also post Master volume -7, -4 and 0 if possible at the same tuning (18Hz).
Three of these units co-located will be about an unbelievable 123dB at LP in a huge 4800 cu ft room. You are making me think a lot about the 3.3.
Also could you post in the Finding Nemo Darla thread too (sorry if you already did).
Thanks,
-Jai

Jai,

The sub started to compress noticeably if I pushed it pass -10dB. When I tried -8dB the needle went up only a half a dB. Didn't want to try any louder. It was already scary loud (although not as loud as my car ).

The sub is located 10 ft away from my LP in the corner.

Sorry, I don't have Finding Nemo.

GL
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post #25 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Gordon1080p View Post

Jai,

The sub started to compress noticeably if I pushed it pass -10dB. When I tried -8dB the needle went up only a half a dB. Didn't want to try any louder. It was already scary loud (although not as loud as my car ).

The sub is located 10 ft away from my LP in the corner.

Sorry, I don't have Finding Nemo.

GL

Yeah. Don't push it beyond -8MV. You owe yourself Finding Nemo .
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post #26 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 04:22 PM
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For those interested my LP is actually closer to my sub than the 1 meter measurement(or about equal). It is next to my couch and under a modified coffee table to hide it. The 1 meter measurements i took of it were done on the floor with that little tripod in the pic at 1 meter away. I do have a question for you guys though regarding this sub. It is supposed to be a monster output wise from 25 hz and up, and it does pretty well there. But is it going to hurt the sub in any way to try those lower hz time stamps at -15 or louder? I know it's not going to keep up with the rest of you guys at lower Hz's , but i have no idea what kind of protection circuitry this sub has or doesn't to keep it from damaging. I have a pretty good room ie-
thick curtains, wall tapestries, wall to wall carpet, soft sofa, etc... and a good location for the sub response wise, just curious.

If it only takes one match to start a forestfire, then why does it take the whole#$%@!&* box to start a camp fire for the kids?!?!? PITTDOG1
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post #27 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 04:46 PM
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Am I reading Frockc (f113) and Gordon1080p (VTF-3.3) results correctly? For a scene that has mostly 25Hz-50Hz material in it (Timestamp 15:52) in about the same size room, the VTF 3.3 beats the f113 by 2dB at 1 meter? Can that be right?
All reports I see, Illka, Craig, etc. shows the f113 beating the SVS Plus/2 in output, kind of scratching my head on how the single 12" driver 3.3 has more output than the other two??

From that thread Jai posted regarding the GP measurements of the f113, Illka says this about the comparison of the f113 and the Plus/2:

"I agree. It's simply amazing how much performance they've pushed out of a such a small box and by using only a single 13.5" driver. It pretty much matches or slightly surpasses the SVS Plus/2 (20 Hz tune) in 20-40 Hz range, and surpasses it by 3-6 dB anywhere else."
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post #28 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 05:53 PM
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What can I say, unless something is wrong with my RatShack meter, those are the readings I'm getting. The 1m may not have been at exactly one meter and perhaps the port output was influencing the readings but since the LP level hit at 114dB, 118dB didn't seem out of the ordinary. It was also freakin scary loud.

GL
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post #29 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MusicFirst View Post

Am I reading Frockc (f113) and Gordon1080p (VTF-3.3) results correctly? For a scene that has mostly 25Hz-50Hz material in it (Timestamp 15:52) in about the same size room, the VTF 3.3 beats the f113 by 2dB at 1 meter? Can that be right?
All reports I see, Illka, Craig, etc. shows the f113 beating the SVS Plus/2 in output, kind of scratching my head on how the single 12" driver 3.3 has more output than the other two??

From that thread Jai posted regarding the GP measurements of the f113, Illka says this about the comparison of the f113 and the Plus/2:

"I agree. It's simply amazing how much performance they've pushed out of a such a small box and by using only a single 13.5" driver. It pretty much matches or slightly surpasses the SVS Plus/2 (20 Hz tune) in 20-40 Hz range, and surpasses it by 3-6 dB anywhere else."

Ok guys. I listened to the f113 today finally. First impressions "VERY IMPRESSIVE". Being the owner of a Danley DTS-20 and having heard the best of mega woofs, I have to say, the guys at JL got it right. I cannot post an extensive review unless I hear it in my own room. I had the digital meter with me, it was effectively close to 3000 cu ft room and concrete walls. The meter was about 12 ft from the woofer and we played the Darla Scene, Incredibles and Monsters Inc. With the Darla scene, the f113 did a great job but could not go beyond 108dB. We tried pushing it to 85 and even 90dB MV (meridian processor. Think reference +15 (ref being 75) but it couldn't go beyond. The sound indeed was very imperssive though. That said, the THX exploding ball and Boo crying registered 116dB. There was a scene in the incredibles where I think it was a cop tapping the glass (I am not that familiar with this movie) for a brief moment and everything goes quiet. I think it went off the charts at that time too. From my initial impressions this is what I think. For sudden bursts, of sound the f113 does an astonishing job where it almost frightens you. For sustained heavy material like Darla it still does a great job but there are others in the price range that will do better (Dual Plus/2) being an example. As for me, I think I would need dual f113s and that is no meager amount. I wanted to buy the unit and made an offer but my offer was not accepted. Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $2500 for the f113. I cannot post what I offered and what the dealer was willing to give. Friends, please send me a PM on how much you guys paid. That will help me decide or maybe change my mind. Long story short, it is possible that the 3.3 can beat the f113 in certain scenes and it is not unbelieavable to me. SPL is not all there is. The SQ was outstanding, in the same league as the Danley DTS-20. The small size will go very well with the wife.
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post #30 of 129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:10 PM
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Ok guys. I listened to the f113 today finally. First impressions "VERY IMPRESSIVE". Being the owner of a Danley DTS-20 and having heard the best of mega woofs, I have to say, the guys at JL got it right. I cannot post an extensive review unless I hear it in my own room. I had the digital meter with me, it was effectively close to 3000 cu ft room and concrete walls. The meter was about 12 ft from the woofer and we played the Darla Scene, Incredibles and Monsters Inc. With the Darla scene, the f113 did a great job but could not go beyond 108dB. We tried pushing it to 85 and even 90dB MV (meridian processor. Think reference +15 (ref being 75) but it couldn't go beyond. The sound indeed was very imperssive though. That said, the THX exploding ball and Boo crying registered 116dB. There was a scene in the incredibles where I think it was a cop tapping the glass (I am not that familiar with this movie) for a brief moment and everything goes quiet. I think it went off the charts at that time too. From my initial impressions this is what I think. For sudden bursts, of sound the f113 does an astonishing job where it almost frightens you. For sustained heavy material like Darla it still does a great job but there are others in the price range that will do better (Dual Plus/2) being an example. As for me, I think I would need dual f113s and that is no meager amount. I wanted to buy the unit and made an offer but my offer was not accepted. Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $2500 for the f113. I cannot post what I offered and what the dealer was willing to give. Friends, please send me a PM on how much you guys paid. That will help me decide or maybe change my mind. Long story short, it is possible that the 3.3 can beat the f113 in certain scenes and it is not unbelieavable to me. SPL is not all there is. The SQ was outstanding, in the same league as the Danley DTS-20. The small size will go very well with the wife.

I haven't heard the HSU VTF 3.3 w/turbo. One could get triple VTF 3.3 w/turbo for less than the price of a single f113. From all that I have read about the 3.3, 3 such units for $2.5K could far outperform a single f113. Again, I don't know how they compare since I have not heard the 3.3 but the measurement results on the 3.2 and the outstanding reviews that talk about the impact of attack/decay that people describe of the HSU subs, I think in a double blind test, one might end up choosing a trio of the 3.3 w/turbo. I hope someone with multiple HOs or multiple 3.3 and turbos would post their measurments. Multiple units of 16-46 PC+ would also be very interesting. Note 3 units means +9.5dB headroom across the frequency respone co-located. In other words, this translates to "TWICE AS LOUD" as a single unit.
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