Newbie calibration question with Avia - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-27-2007, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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This is my first sub and I am having trouble calibrating with Avia. My first question is which menu/test tone I have to use with Avia? There are so many.

Second question is, I have a RS digital SPL. I know I have to adjust for lower frequencies, just don't know by how much as the test tones I saw do not specify the frequency (I read somewhere 3DB)
I have tower speakers, I set them to small and my sub is HSU VTF-3 MKII. Room is a large open to above (i.e. very high ceilings).

Thanks for your help
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-27-2007, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaban View Post

My first question is which menu/test tone I have to use with Avia? There are so many.

From the root menu select:

1) From the root menu select "Advanced AVIA"
2) From the Advanced AVIA menu select "Subwoofer Setup"
3) From the subwoofer setup menu select "Front Left" and "Front Right "


Take your reading from either the front left or right or an averge of both. Some people take their reading from the FL,FR,C,SL,SR and get an average of all the speakers.

First AVIA will play the tone for the speaker (80dB for instance) and then it will play the tone for the sub. Keep adjusting the sub until it reads 3dB below the speaker (for instance 77dB if the speakers reads 80dB). You may have to adjust the sub with the sub's gain contro because the receiver's sub level doesn't work with AVIA because AVIA uses only redirected bass and the sub level on the receiver is for LFE and AVIA doesn't work with LFE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by castaban View Post

Second question is, I have a RS digital SPL. I know I have to adjust for lower frequencies, just don't know by how much as the test tones I saw do not specify the frequency (I read somewhere 3DB)
I have tower speakers, I set them to small and my sub is HSU VTF-3 MKII. Room is a large open to above (i.e. very high ceilings).
Thanks for your help

Typically 3dB but some over at HTS say it's more. I stick with the 3dB rule. You will probably find a flat calibration unexciting so feel free to increase the sub 3 or 4dB to get more punch.

BTW I've owned 2 VTF-3 MKII subs over the past couple years and you have one hell of a sub. The Dr. Hsu is a pure genius. Congratulations.

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post #3 of 13 Old 04-27-2007, 05:06 PM
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post #4 of 13 Old 04-28-2007, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

You may have to adjust the sub with the sub's gain contro because the receiver's sub level doesn't work with AVIA because AVIA uses only redirected bass and the sub level on the receiver is for LFE and AVIA doesn't work with LFE.

Thank you guys, I did not realize that. I also read Guy's comment which clarified a lot of things.
I recalibrated again this time from the SUB control. Now I am very confused. Greatly appreciate help. Here is my system info. AVR: Panasonic XR-55, all speakers are towers, crossover at AVR set to 80 (should I use maybe 100?), I did not do any distance compensation (All speakers are about the same distance, except the sub, which is a lot closer). I believe I set phase right using the warple tones. Here is what is happening I don't quite understand:

I set up the subwoofer using the subwoofer setup tones, which I understand uses the bass directed from the mains. Levels match now. Then I wanted to test LFE. So I used the Low frequency sweep of 6 channels. LFE came a lot lower, not the same. So I thought I could adjust it using the AVR levels and bumped it up to match it, at least being close to it. Then I went to subwoofer setup to check it again. To my surprise the SW level of that test way off now, it was a lot higher. How is that possible? If one test is using the bass directed from the mains and the other one from LFE, how is it possible when I increase the LFE level, the bass on the mains increase?

One more thing I am confused. I used AVR test tones and LFE came up a lot higher than the others. By about 10db

[Edit] There is a setting in AVR which sets which channels LFE is sent to. It was set to both Mains and SW. That is how I calibrated. This morning I changed to SW only (I assume that is the best settings, I am right?), it did not make much difference in calibration
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post #5 of 13 Old 04-28-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaban View Post

I set up the subwoofer using the subwoofer setup tones, which I understand uses the bass directed from the mains. Levels match now. Then I wanted to test LFE. So I used the Low frequency sweep of 6 channels. LFE came a lot lower, not the same. So I thought I could adjust it using the AVR levels and bumped it up to match it, at least being close to it. Then I went to subwoofer setup to check it again. To my surprise the SW level of that test way off now, it was a lot higher. How is that possible? If one test is using the bass directed from the mains and the other one from LFE, how is it possible when I increase the LFE level, the bass on the mains increase?

One more thing I am confused. I used AVR test tones and LFE came up a lot higher than the others. By about 10db

[Edit] There is a setting in AVR which sets which channels LFE is sent to. It was set to both Mains and SW. That is how I calibrated. This morning I changed to SW only (I assume that is the best settings, I am right?), it did not make much difference in calibration

The 6 channel verification sweep in Avia is buggy on the LFE channel - ignore it. Use the redirected bass subwoofer calibration tone.

Try all three channels on the front stage to calibrate the sub and select the one that seem most representative of the average. This will help prevent over or under calibration of the subwoofer.

With all speakers set to Small, there should be no option for LFE+Main, but if that option does appear when the speakers are set to Small, then disable it and set to subwoofer only.

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post #6 of 13 Old 04-28-2007, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

The 6 channel verification sweep in Avia is buggy on the LFE channel - ignore it. Use the redirected bass subwoofer calibration tone.

Thanks, I still do not understand though that setting LFE level will effect redirected bass, unless that implementation is also buggy (i.e. sends signal to LFE and mains)

I believe my previous edit about LFE being sent to both Mains and SW was a misunderstanding of a poorly written AVR manual.
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-28-2007, 09:02 AM
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The subwoofer level control affects the strength of the signal being fed to the subwoofer - both redirected bass and the LFE channel are affected equally.

The LFE channel attentuation control on some AVRs affects only the LFE channel (the .1 in 5.1) and not the level of redirected bass.

The LFE channel is boosted 10 dB by the pre/pro when incoming as a bitstream signal. That particular section of Avia shows all redirected bass at the same level, and then the LFE channel drops off noticeably when it shouldn't. Without verifying in the digital domain, my educated guess would be the LFE signal in the Avia 6.1 verification section is mastered 20 dB low instead of 10 dB low.

The Avia LFE channel reverse sweep from 100-20 Hz is mastered at the correct level and should show about the same levels of bass from the subwoofer in the 50-20 Hz region as the Avia 200-20 Hz redirected bass reverse sweep.

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post #8 of 13 Old 04-28-2007, 10:25 PM
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Wow, this is kind of a freaky coincidence. I just posted yesterday in the Panasonic SA-XR55 thread about how I can't get the Avia LF pink noise 6 channel pan test to come out right; the LFE tone comes out 10dB low.

If the test is correct, this means the AVR is not applying the required 10dB gain to the LFE channel. If this test is wrong then that is a big relief!
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-29-2007, 02:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Even freakier is, I too use XR55. Makes you think...
You know the SW/LFE level in XR55 controls also the redirected bass, which I found very surprising
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-29-2007, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_T View Post

Wow, this is kind of a freaky coincidence. I just posted yesterday in the Panasonic SA-XR55 thread about how I can't get the Avia LF pink noise 6 channel pan test to come out right; the LFE tone comes out 10dB low.

If the test is correct, this means the AVR is not applying the required 10dB gain to the LFE channel. If this test is wrong then that is a big relief!

Actually, it's the other direction. The LFE channel should be mastered 10 dB lower than the bass in the surround channels because the pre-pro boosts the LFE channel 10 dB.

Instead of being mastered 10 dB lower, I suspect the LFE channel in the 6 channel panning test was incorrectly mastered 20 dB lower. So when you play the test, it measures 10 dB too low.

After I spotted this glitch a few years ago, I ran a series of test tones professionally mastered by Vince Maskeeper over at HTF which contained 40 Hz signals in the five surround channels and the LFE channel. Vince mastered the LFE channel tone 10 dB lower than the speaker channels and they all played at exactly the same volume through my system.

So I knew my digital bass management was working correctly and surmised the 6 channel panning test was a glitch with Avia and stopped using it.

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post #11 of 13 Old 04-29-2007, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

The 6 channel verification sweep in Avia is buggy on the LFE channel - ignore it. Use the redirected bass subwoofer calibration tone.

Try all three channels on the front stage to calibrate the sub and select the one that seem most representative of the average. This will help prevent over or under calibration of the subwoofer.

With all speakers set to Small, there should be no option for LFE+Main, but if that option does appear when the speakers are set to Small, then disable it and set to subwoofer only.

Avia has a lot of test tones. What is the exact name and chapter location of the "redirected bass subwoofer calibration tone?"
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post #12 of 13 Old 04-29-2007, 09:59 AM
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nightlight, try Chapter 7 "Advanced AVIA" and select "subwoofer setup"

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post #13 of 13 Old 04-29-2007, 11:29 AM
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Hmm, I'll have to try it again
LOL

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