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post #4531 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 01:26 PM
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Learn me this: These are specs for a couple Energy RC-10 being used as main speakers for the time being. What should I be looking for when setting them up with an LFM-1 Plus (that happens to be on the Fed Ex truck for today's arrival)

Frequency Response 50Hz-23000Hz +/- 3dB
Recommended Amplifier Power up to 175 watts RMS
Components 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter, 5-1/2" Kevlar Ribbed Elliptical Surround Woofer
Impedance 8 ohms nominal, 4 ohm minimum
Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic) 43Hz
Sensitivity (anechoic) 88dB
Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 91dB
Crossover Point 2.4kHz
Operating Range Tweeter: 1.5kHz and >, Woofer: ~ to 3kHz

Any clue would be very appreciated.
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post #4532 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 01:41 PM
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FieldingMelish,
You weren't very specific as to what you wanted to learn, but the basics should be something like:

1. Connect the sub to the AVR
2. Run the room correction on your AVR (like Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc)
3. Set your speaker size to small
4. Enjoy some bass heavy movies/music
5. Report how you feel about your Outlaw on AVS

There's nothing to see here.

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post #4533 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FieldingMelish View Post

Learn me this: These are specs for a couple Energy RC-10 being used as main speakers for the time being. What should I be looking for when setting them up with an LFM-1 Plus (that happens to be on the Fed Ex truck for today's arrival)

Frequency Response 50Hz-23000Hz +/- 3dB
Recommended Amplifier Power up to 175 watts RMS
Components 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter, 5-1/2" Kevlar Ribbed Elliptical Surround Woofer
Impedance 8 ohms nominal, 4 ohm minimum
Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic) 43Hz
Sensitivity (anechoic) 88dB
Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 91dB
Crossover Point 2.4kHz
Operating Range Tweeter: 1.5kHz and >, Woofer: ~ to 3kHz

Any clue would be very appreciated.

Front crossover at 80hz, speakers set to small, run Audyssey/equivalent, enjoy.
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post #4534 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unavol View Post

FieldingMelish,
You weren't very specific as to what you wanted to learn, but the basics should be something like:

1. Connect the sub to the AVR
2. Run the room correction on your AVR (like Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc)
3. Set your speaker size to small
4. Enjoy some bass heavy movies/music
5. Report how you feel about your Outlaw on AVS

I was typing on my phone... lol wasn't trying to copy
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post #4535 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unavol View Post

FieldingMelish,
You weren't very specific as to what you wanted to learn, but the basics should be something like:

1. Connect the sub to the AVR
2. Run the room correction on your AVR (like Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc)
3. Set your speaker size to small
4. Enjoy some bass heavy movies/music
5. Report how you feel about your Outlaw on AVS

+1
One important thing to note after getting your sub is dont turn the gain on the back of the sub too high. Put it at the 9'clock position (which should be 3, i havent looked in awhile) and then run Audyssey or whatever receiver option you have. If you only have Audyssey 2EQ you will want to boost the lvl much higher than what 2EQ sets it at and an SPL meter will benefit you greatly. Let us know what receiver you have and we can help you further, but whatever you do dont turn the gain on the sub too high to get where you want to be.

Life is hard, be harder.
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post #4536 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loft View Post

Front crossover at 80hz, speakers set to small, run Audyssey/equivalent, enjoy.

Ahh the young padawin is learning! Haha jk

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4537 of 7120 Old 01-06-2012, 09:02 PM
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Ahh the young padawin is learning! Haha jk

Why you! Ahaha... no it's okay. I know general stuff/configuring but I usually just lurk because someone else with more of a reputation would answer. Call me lazy, I call it efficient lol...
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post #4538 of 7120 Old 01-07-2012, 04:10 AM
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Grasshopper says, "thank you all." After I posted my question, the Fed Ex guy rang the doorbell and it was off to the races. Without checking back on the forum, it was all about feverishly setting up the sub before my wife came home. I tried putting a flowering plant on the top of it, but she spotted the sub hiding underneath. It's that dang sixth sense, I tell 'ya.

The wife is somewhat bewildered by all this activity given the recent sales going on and why I suddenly need a "bunch of large speakers." Best thing she said after a while wandering about the room was that it sounded like a disco. I didn't have disco music on, but it was her way of saying that she was feeling it. So I must have done something right in setting up the sub.

My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V671, so I used its included Parametric room Acoustic Optimizer (YPAO); it's not Audessy, but it's okay; done it before. I took the cord out of my old Take Classic sub (The one that told me it needed replacing when I watched the Close Encounters Blu-Ray; the part where Richard Dreyfus has his first encounter by the train crossing), then stuck said cable into the LFM Plus.

I put the LFM-Plus volume knob on 5, selected max output (took out the port cork), bypassed the LFM-Plus crossover, then ran YPAO. YPAO in typical fashion didn't get the subwoofer's distance correct, so I overrode that setting.

I will have to check where to find out what crossover the Yamaha YPAO selected to see if it's 80hz. (thanks, Loft!) Saints, I don't know what Gain is, so maybe it's the volume knob that I set at 5?

By the way, this sucker is heavy. Suffice to say, I unboxed the sub very carefully to salvage not only the sub, but my back muscles as well. I was blown away and gratified that my Auralex Gramma arrived just after the sub. The sub having been put in place already, I had to re-place it atop the Gramma. A labor of love.

Anyhow, my feelings about the sub is impressed, but newbie wants to be sure. I'll do the sub trick, putting it in the listening position when walking around. I know one thing. When I went to one side of the sub while going to review a setting on the back of it, it was pounding out some guttural notes far deeper than heard from my present listening position. So, while cautious, I am optimistic.
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post #4539 of 7120 Old 01-07-2012, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FieldingMelish View Post

Grasshopper says, "thank you all." After I posted my question, the Fed Ex guy rang the doorbell and it was off to the races. Without checking back on the forum, it was all about feverishly setting up the sub before my wife came home. I tried putting a flowering plant on the top of it, but she spotted the sub hiding underneath. It's that dang sixth sense, I tell 'ya.

The wife is somewhat bewildered by all this activity given the recent sales going on and why I suddenly need a "bunch of large speakers." Best thing she said after a while wandering about the room was that it sounded like a disco. I didn't have disco music on, but it was her way of saying that she was feeling it. So I must have done something right in setting up the sub.

My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V671, so I used its included Parametric room Acoustic Optimizer (YPAO); it's not Audessy, but it's okay; done it before. I took the cord out of my old Take Classic sub (The one that told me it needed replacing when I watched the Close Encounters Blu-Ray; the part where Richard Dreyfus has his first encounter by the train crossing), then stuck said cable into the LFM Plus.

I put the LFM-Plus volume knob on 5, selected max output (took out the port cork), bypassed the LFM-Plus crossover, then ran YPAO. YPAO in typical fashion didn't get the subwoofer's distance correct, so I overrode that setting.

I will have to check where to find out what crossover the Yamaha YPAO selected to see if it's 80hz. (thanks, Loft!) Saints, I don't know what Gain is, so maybe it's the volume knob that I set at 5?

By the way, this sucker is heavy. Suffice to say, I unboxed the sub very carefully to salvage not only the sub, but my back muscles as well. I was blown away and gratified that my Auralex Gramma arrived just after the sub. The sub having been put in place already, I had to re-place it atop the Gramma. A labor of love.

Anyhow, my feelings about the sub is impressed, but newbie wants to be sure. I'll do the sub trick, putting it in the listening position when walking around. I know one thing. When I went to one side of the sub while going to review a setting on the back of it, it was pounding out some guttural notes far deeper than heard from my present listening position. So, while cautious, I am optimistic.

Crawl, not walk. And you're welcome! Yes the volume knob is the gain, set it to 9 o'clock and rerun YPAO. I think 9 o'clock is 2 or 3 (not home currently) as you don't want to run it too hot. Glad you like it so far

Edit: Also make sure your speaker type is set to small. Not sure if we mentioned that before.
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post #4540 of 7120 Old 01-07-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FieldingMelish View Post

I put the LFM-Plus volume knob on 5, selected max output (took out the port cork), bypassed the LFM-Plus crossover, then ran YPAO. YPAO in typical fashion didn't get the subwoofer's distance correct, so I overrode that setting.

With MO, be sure to flip the switch on the back, too. That changes the electronics. Could be very bad for the sub to run in MO or ME while the switch is set the opposite way.

Also, what trim (channel) level did YPAO end up with? That's the important factor, not the gain (volume) setting on the subs. Many people recommend having the gain set on the sub such that the room calibration software ends up between -3db to +3db for best performance (the sub produces better bass), even if you have to turn the gain way down on the back of the sub below where you think it should be. Adjust the gain and run YPAO until in that range. Then if you want more bass after calibration, you can bump the channel level up a couple db.

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post #4541 of 7120 Old 01-07-2012, 08:02 AM
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yup plus don't worry about the distance thing. That's typically calculated for signal delays to the listening area. I'd leave it to what it calibrated it too

My Setup
Stage 1 - Enthusiasm
Stage 2 - Realism
Stage 3 - Obsession
Stage 4 - Acceptance

Which stage are you on?
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post #4542 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 10:19 AM
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just got back from a field exercise3 and eagerly awaiting to get home to open my 2nd lfm ex

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4543 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 01:36 PM
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Nosferatu, cel4145, loft, thanks very much. I just got on forums after some time off and I will check into those mentioned settings asap.

Earlier this morning I had a chance to do the sub crawl all around and found an optimal location. Last night's small party in the sub's initial positioning? Not so much - my friend's girlfriend said she thought the sub wasn't turned on. Though if you walked behind the sub, it was definitely percolating. Today's crawl made it a game changer , so my stoked'ness is on the increase. All seated positions are receiving nice bass. I'll pay attention to all your helpful comments and try to improve what is already sounding encouraging.
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post #4544 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FieldingMelish View Post

Nosferatu, cel4145, loft, thanks very much. I just got on forums after some time off and I will check into those mentioned settings asap.

Earlier this morning I had a chance to do the sub crawl all around and found an optimal location. Last night's small party in the sub's initial positioning? Not so much - my friend's girlfriend said she thought the sub wasn't turned on. Though if you walked behind the sub, it was definitely percolating. Today's crawl made it a game changer , so my stoked'ness is on the increase. All seated positions are receiving nice bass. I'll pay attention to all your helpful comments and try to improve what is already sounding encouraging.

I'll always found it tough to carry the lfm around for my sub crawl. Try playing content than turning off the sub and hear the difference

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4545 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 04:49 PM
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I'll always found it tough to carry the lfm around for my sub crawl. Try playing content than turning off the sub and hear the difference

You don't really have to carry the sub around much. Just plop it in your listening position and break out the knee pads lol. Then when you find the sweet spot, move the sub to there, and go sit down and turn it up
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post #4546 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 06:31 PM
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2 ex's is god like...wow.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4547 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 07:30 PM
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2 ex's is god like...wow.

I don't like you as much anymore
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post #4548 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 07:35 PM
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I don't like you as much anymore

The apollo 13 launch scene could've knocked down my back wall 0-0

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4549 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

The apollo 13 launch scene could've knocked down my back wall 0-0

You must be loving life with the Energy RC setup you got, too. Gotta be a lot of improvement of the MLT setup you had before.

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post #4550 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 07:52 PM
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You must be loving life with the Energy RC setup you got, too. Gotta be a lot of improvement of the MLT setup you had before.

I'm blown away by the sq with music! They aren't even broken in yet. Great recommendation Charlie!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4551 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 09:18 PM
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I'm blown away by the sq with music! They aren't even broken in yet. Great recommendation Charlie!

The irony is that you spent as much (a little more) on subwoofers as your 5.0 speaker set. I wonder how we convince newbies building their first HT system to consider even close to kind of ratio that in the AVS Speaker forum? I just had a slight disagreement there with someone who wanted the "theater experience," and yet was intent on keeping his 10 year old Klipsch KSW-100 sub. He said that his friend's 8" Paradigm rattled the walls, too, so he didn't see much point in a 12" ported sub. It's kind of hard to communicate the OMG factor that comes from buying a sub like the Plus or the EX. As I explained to him, it's a "leap of faith" since almost no one new to HT has experience with anything like these subs (BTW: I think he's almost made that leap now).

Maybe we should collect these one liner, tweet-length reactions such as

your "2 ex's is god like...wow."

tatumguy's "I think I know how Buddah felt when he first reached enlightenment."

loft's "Mmmm... *drool* this... is nice..."


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post #4552 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 09:44 PM
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The irony is that you spent as much (a little more) on subwoofers as your 5.0 speaker set. I wonder how we convince newbies building their first HT system to consider even close to kind of ratio that in the AVS Speaker forum? I just had a slight disagreement there with someone who wanted the "theater experience," and yet was intent on keeping his 10 year old Klipsch KSW-100 sub. He said that his friend's 8" Paradigm rattled the walls, too, so he didn't see much point in a 12" ported sub. It's kind of hard to communicate the OMG factor that comes from buying a sub like the Plus or the EX. As I explained to him, it's a "leap of faith" since almost no one new to HT has experience with anything like these subs (BTW: I think he's almost made that leap now).

Maybe we should collect these one liner, tweet-length reactions such as

your "2 ex's is god like...wow."

tatumguy's "I think I know how Buddah felt when he first reached enlightenment."

loft's "Mmmm... *drool* this... is nice..."


I've experienced it before, but not my own. I'm already thinking about picking up a second... or maybe trying to redo this entire room to accommodate what I have now. Maybe I should rip out the stupid wood paneling that I have, paint the walls, and do some room treatments before anything else. (Even though I'm moving, that's cheaper than a second sub lol)
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post #4553 of 7120 Old 01-08-2012, 11:09 PM
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I've experienced it before, but not my own. I'm already thinking about picking up a second... or maybe trying to redo this entire room to accommodate what I have now. Maybe I should rip out the stupid wood paneling that I have, paint the walls, and do some room treatments before anything else. (Even though I'm moving, that's cheaper than a second sub lol)

Don't tear your house up remodeling to support your HT addiction if you are getting ready to move

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post #4554 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 08:53 AM
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Don't tear your house up remodeling to support your HT addiction if you are getting ready to move

The house needs to be redone anyways, so look at it as more of a motivator to make me do the things that need to be done and should have been done a few years ago; lol
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post #4555 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


The irony is that you spent as much (a little more) on subwoofers as your 5.0 speaker set. I wonder how we convince newbies building their first HT system to consider even close to kind of ratio that in the AVS Speaker forum? I just had a slight disagreement there with someone who wanted the "theater experience," and yet was intent on keeping his 10 year old Klipsch KSW-100 sub. He said that his friend's 8" Paradigm rattled the walls, too, so he didn't see much point in a 12" ported sub. It's kind of hard to communicate the OMG factor that comes from buying a sub like the Plus or the EX. As I explained to him, it's a "leap of faith" since almost no one new to HT has experience with anything like these subs (BTW: I think he's almost made that leap now).

Maybe we should collect these one liner, tweet-length reactions such as

your "2 ex's is god like...wow."

tatumguy's "I think I know how Buddah felt when he first reached enlightenment."

loft's "Mmmm... *drool* this... is nice..."


So true haha. Glad I didn't go with a lava lsp12

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4556 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 10:50 AM
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I am going to have spent the same on my dual subs as I did for 7.0 speakers.

Shawn
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post #4557 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 11:10 AM
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2 ex's is god like...wow.

Then I don't recommend a third marriage...
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post #4558 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 11:18 AM
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Then I don't recommend a third marriage...

Hahahaa +1

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4559 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

With MO, be sure to flip the switch on the back, too. That changes the electronics. Could be very bad for the sub to run in MO or ME while the switch is set the opposite way.

Also, what trim (channel) level did YPAO end up with? That's the important factor, not the gain (volume) setting on the subs. Many people recommend having the gain set on the sub such that the room calibration software ends up between -3db to +3db for best performance (the sub produces better bass), even if you have to turn the gain way down on the back of the sub below where you think it should be. Adjust the gain and run YPAO until in that range. Then if you want more bass after calibration, you can bump the channel level up a couple db.

I worked on this today and discovered exactly what you said. First try was using gain of 5 (like it said in the Outlaw manual). Result was negative 10 db on the woofer with crossover at 100hz. Next, I re-ran at 9:00 position (level 2) and the result was plus 1 db on the subwoofer, crossover at 90hz. I manually bumped it up a bit and so far, so good. If I put the gain knob higher than 3 or 4, music starts to get bass-y, and I am made aware as to where the bass is coming from. As a cross check, I'll put on a movie scene or two with heavy bass to see where I am in this. I haven't heard what great bass sounds like at a brick and mortar store or a friends house, but I like what I am hearing.
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post #4560 of 7120 Old 01-09-2012, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FieldingMelish View Post

I worked on this today and discovered exactly what you said. First try was using gain of 5 (like it said in the Outlaw manual). Result was negative 10 db on the woofer with crossover at 100hz. Next, I re-ran at 9:00 position (level 2) and the result was plus 1 db on the subwoofer, crossover at 90hz. I manually bumped it up a bit and so far, so good. If I put the gain knob higher than 3 or 4, music starts to get bass-y, and I am made aware as to where the bass is coming from. As a cross check, I'll put on a movie scene or two with heavy bass to see where I am in this. I haven't heard what great bass sounds like at a brick and mortar store or a friends house, but I like what I am hearing.

Mine is set at the 10 o'clock position and the level on my receiver was at +3.0 after I ran the room correction and I'll admit, I bumped it up to +4.0 as I like my bass. Sounds great to me, lol.
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