Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 7341 Old 09-04-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

We need details!

I just edited my last post...

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Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Thanks Larry, I can certainly say the same for you .

Incidentally, this is completely unrelated to REW and Outlaw, but I think my ~900 cubic foot room is going to receive a shake up pretty soon

I think I'm going to take out my two PB10-NSD's and put in an Epik Castle.

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post #902 of 7341 Old 09-04-2008, 01:31 PM
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I think you should do something more like the ones in the "kick in the chest" post!

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post #903 of 7341 Old 09-04-2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by weverb View Post

I think you should do something more like the ones in the "kick in the chest" post!

Yeah, but unfortunately this college student only has so much $$ . And I think a Castle should just about tear my tiny room apart anyway .
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post #904 of 7341 Old 09-05-2008, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

I think I'm going to take out my two PB10-NSD's and put in an Epik Castle.

Stephen,

I would love to read your thoughts about the difference between two subs vs. one killer sub like the Epik. Your room will rock!

BTW, you will be able to fire up the REW & Behringer again.

Larry
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post #905 of 7341 Old 09-05-2008, 12:42 PM
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Here is a REW graph as I start to look at the highs....

Any and all comments are welcome!

Larry
LL
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post #906 of 7341 Old 09-05-2008, 12:47 PM
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Hey Larry,

Does this graph have any smoothing? Did you calibrate using the sub level or the speaker cal?

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post #907 of 7341 Old 09-05-2008, 12:56 PM
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^^

Yes, I used 1/3 octave smoothing per a post from brucek.

I used the sub level calibration in REW, but I made sure my Onkyo 805 MV was set for a 75dB level which produce a sub level calibration of 81.5dB in REW.

Larry
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post #908 of 7341 Old 09-05-2008, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

Stephen,

I would love to read your thoughts about the difference between two subs vs. one killer sub like the Epik. Your room will rock!

BTW, you will be able to fire up the REW & Behringer again.

Larry

I hope it will happen soon. My PB10's are on craigslist and I have a potential buyer. We just need to find out a time for him to come and get them. As far as I'm concerned, the day I sell them I'll put in an order for the Castle . I'll make sure to keep you posted. I'm anticipating a significant increase in output - especially way down deep below 20hz, as well as a substantial improvement in sound quality.

Great REW graph BTW. I haven't messed too much with graphing my upper frequencies, but I think I'll try it at some point. I'm curious to know what your graph looks like without smoothing. I did run REW to 20khz at one point and the graph looked terrible with huge jumps and dips in very small groups of frequencies, but I think with smoothing it would look decent.
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post #909 of 7341 Old 09-05-2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

I did run REW to 20khz at one point and the graph looked terrible with huge jumps and dips in very small groups of frequencies, but I think with smoothing it would look decent.

Yes, without smoothing, it's unreadable.

One of the REW experts, brucek, suggested in a reply to a post, that 1/3 smoothing is required for a graph of the upper frequencies.

I hope your subs sell soon!
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post #910 of 7341 Old 09-18-2008, 08:30 AM
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Hello all. After enjoying my HT setup for about 8 months now, I;m n the market for a real sub and am leaning towards and LFM-1+. Outlaw seems to be a bit les popular than a lot of the other brands touted on AVS, but I've never been a flollow the herd type, especially when what appears to be a nice bargain comes into view. The LFM-1+, when you look at the specs and compare pricing, appears to be just that.

Having said all of that, I have a few questions for the Outlaw fans before I finalize my decision and show Outlaw the Visa digits. Ok, here goes:

1. Can you elaborate on why you chose Outlaw, especially over HSU ? Was there a percieved performance advantage or edge in SQ ? Was it simply perceived bang for the buck ? Also, and I don't want to come across as too particular but if you can provide a few more words than just "It kills brand XYZ", it wold be higly appreciated.

2. Is there anyone who has actually heard an Outlaw, side by side, with antoher brand and is able to give a comparison in oberall sound quality ? I am more interested in musicality than absolute output. Yes I do enjoy movies, I have both HD and Blu as well as an Oppo 981, but how it sounds with music is most important to me. Also, why Outlaw and not HSU ?

3, This is more of a general question and I'm wondering what the advanage of a down firing driver is over a front firing design is ? It just seems that there is a lot of wasted energy being pointed at the floor instead of out into the room. Yes I've heard the "bass is omnidirectional" argument but I jsut need a little more than that to be convinced that there is benefit to pointing it at the floor.

4. And lastly (yea I know it's long winded - sorry), what actual improvements in sound are realised by an acoustic isolator such as the Gramma ? I plan to set it up on a carpet with spiked feet and am wondering if its worth the extra expense.

Ok, I know that's a lot to chew on and I'm sure much may have been answered before but I needed to get all of my questions in one place.

Thanks for reading through this if you've gotten this far. Your patience is noteworthy.

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post #911 of 7341 Old 09-18-2008, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PannyMann View Post

Hello all. After enjoying my HT setup for about 8 months now, I;m n the market for a real sub and am leaning towards and LFM-1+. Outlaw seems to be a bit les popular than a lot of the other brands touted on AVS, but I've never been a flollow the herd type, especially when what appears to be a nice bargain comes into view. The LFM-1+, when you look at the specs and compare pricing, appears to be just that.

Having said all of that, I have a few questions for the Outlaw fans before I finalize my decision and show Outlaw the Visa digits. Ok, here goes:

1. Can you elaborate on why you chose Outlaw, especially over HSU ? Was there a percieved performance advantage or edge in SQ ? Was it simply perceived bang for the buck ? Also, and I don't want to come across as too particular but if you can provide a few more words than just "It kills brand XYZ", it wold be higly appreciated.

2. Is there anyone who has actually heard an Outlaw, side by side, with antoher brand and is able to give a comparison in oberall sound quality ? I am more interested in musicality than absolute output. Yes I do enjoy movies, I have both HD and Blu as well as an Oppo 981, but how it sounds with music is most important to me. Also, why Outlaw and not HSU ?

3, This is more of a general question and I'm wondering what the advanage of a down firing driver is over a front firing design is ? It just seems that there is a lot of wasted energy being pointed at the floor instead of out into the room. Yes I've heard the "bass is omnidirectional" argument but I jsut need a little more than that to be convinced that there is benefit to pointing it at the floor.

4. And lastly (yea I know it's long winded - sorry), what actual improvements in sound are realised by an acoustic isolator such as the Gramma ? I plan to set it up on a carpet with spiked feet and am wondering if its worth the extra expense.

Ok, I know that's a lot to chew on and I'm sure much may have been answered before but I needed to get all of my questions in one place.

Thanks for reading through this if you've gotten this far. Your patience is noteworthy.


Good questions, don't know the answers but I too would like to have the experts chime in.
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post #912 of 7341 Old 09-18-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PannyMann View Post

1. Can you elaborate on why you chose Outlaw, especially over HSU ? Was there a percieved performance advantage or edge in SQ ? Was it simply perceived bang for the buck ? Also, and I don't want to come across as too particular but if you can provide a few more words than just "It kills brand XYZ", it wold be higly appreciated.

I went with the LFM-1 EX because of price, size, and a few good reviews. Basically bang for the buck. In addition, it was a normally stocked item unlike the MFW was in the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PannyMann View Post

2. Is there anyone who has actually heard an Outlaw, side by side, with antoher brand and is able to give a comparison in oberall sound quality ? I am more interested in musicality than absolute output. Yes I do enjoy movies, I have both HD and Blu as well as an Oppo 981, but how it sounds with music is most important to me. Also, why Outlaw and not HSU ?

I have not heard any of the other popular subs, but I do listen to a lot of music. To me the Outlaw sub does a great job with music. I believe it actually does a better job with music than movies. They seem to be not a strong as other subs down low, but that is not always needed for music. Then again, I have added a MBM-12 for the mid-bass and have set-up the Outlat to handle the 16-50Hz areas.

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3, This is more of a general question and I'm wondering what the advanage of a down firing driver is over a front firing design is ? It just seems that there is a lot of wasted energy being pointed at the floor instead of out into the room. Yes I've heard the "bass is omnidirectional" argument but I jsut need a little more than that to be convinced that there is benefit to pointing it at the floor.

I am not sure about the driver, but the direction of the ports can have an audible impact. Down firing ports are less likly to be heard making any port chuffing (sp ?) sounds. This is one reason I went with Outlaw over HSU. In addition, down firing ports give you more placement options. Usually rear or side firing ports need to fire into a surface (wall, couch, etc.). The HSU rear ports and side firing driver would not work with my limited placement options (see previous pix post).

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Originally Posted by PannyMann View Post

4. And lastly (yea I know it's long winded - sorry), what actual improvements in sound are realised by an acoustic isolator such as the Gramma ? I plan to set it up on a carpet with spiked feet and am wondering if its worth the extra expense.

A Gramma will help if you have a wood subfloor. This post is a good example of one not being needed:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14460402

I have a concrete slab and have not pursued one. Although they are pretty cheap to try out and see if it would help.

Now for my disclaimer: I am NOT a sub expert and have only been researching and playing with my current sub for about a year. These are just my interpreted results.

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post #913 of 7341 Old 09-18-2008, 11:05 AM
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weverb, thanks for getting back. This is good information and I respect your knowledge as I beleive 1st hand experience is the best teacher and obviously you have more than I in this area.

So, your bang for the buck criteria sounds very similar to mine as far as reasons for leaning towards Outlaw. And since it sounds like you are satisfied, then the decision was obviously sound. (no pun). I need to digest the rest of your response a bit before I comment further, but time does not allow at the moment. Thanks again for getting back.

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post #914 of 7341 Old 09-18-2008, 06:25 PM
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weverb, thanks for getting back. This is good information and I respect your knowledge as I beleive 1st hand experience is the best teacher and obviously you have more than I in this area.

Other great sources for information are Larry (lagsbach), audiofreak38, lalakersfan, jeffery r, etc. We are all here to help corrupt....I mean help in any way we can.

One other thing, you may want to wait and get a b-stock EX for $549 shipped! Larry can probably elaborate more on the difference between the two. He has both (2 each to be exact). It is only $50 more!

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post #915 of 7341 Old 09-18-2008, 08:50 PM
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I spoke with Outlaw today about B stock and the individual on the phone said that for a "pristine" EX, it would be full price ($599) with free shipping. A new plus is $499 and $65 shipping which is within what 35 bucks. Decisions decisions and YES, this place does corrupt ones will to resist temptation.

I'm going to sleep on this and thanks to your response, I have a few things to consider.

I'm not sure if I should thank you or not !!! LOL !!!!

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post #916 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 06:00 AM
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I'm not sure if I should thank you or not !!! LOL !!!!

That's what we are here for!

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OK, YA GOT ME !!!!

I pulled the trigger just now and ordered an LFM-1 Plus. The price was right and the specs look good. I woke up this morning and it dawned on me that there is about a 99% 'hit rate" whenever I get this interested in something. I figured, what the heck, you KNOW you're going to end up buying so why agonise ? JUST DO IT and so it has been done.

Now for the wait......I think I'll go play golf everyday till it get's here.

I think, therefore I am single.
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post #918 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 07:40 AM
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Now for the wait......I think I'll go play golf everyday till it get's here.

I think you will be surprised at how quick they ship. I think my EX made the trek from Cali to Florida in like 4 days. Thanks to FedEx!

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post #919 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weverb View Post

Now for my disclaimer: I am NOT a sub expert and have only been researching and playing with my current sub for about a year. These are just my interpreted results.

Hi weverb,

I have read your posts offering your experiences on the LFM sub and I want to say how well thought out and insightful your answers were. I couldn't have said it any better!

Now, weverb, you're most certainly are an expert with your set-up and with the amount of work you are doing with your room, subs in general.
For my money, your thoughts are always welcome here in this thread!

Larry
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post #920 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

...your thoughts are always welcome here in this thread!

Thanks for the kind words Larry. It seems that you and I are the only ones keeping this thread alive sometimes. I would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between the Plus and the EX. I think it would be good info for those on the fence between the two.

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post #921 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PannyMann View Post

OK, YA GOT ME !!!!

I pulled the trigger just now and ordered an LFM-1 Plus. The price was right and the specs look good. I woke up this morning and it dawned on me that there is about a 99% 'hit rate" whenever I get this interested in something. I figured, what the heck, you KNOW you're going to end up buying so why agonise ? JUST DO IT and so it has been done.

Now for the wait......I think I'll go play golf everyday till it get's here.

Congrats--you should love it. My EX has been kick-ass since I got it a couple of months ago. I love watching my wife's reaction when our family room shakes and rattles when watching movies. It has been a significant improvement in sound quality over my old reliable SVS PB1-ISD, so I am very pleased.

Don't forget, it will likely come stock in maximum extension mode (one port plugged), but try that out along with maximum output mode to see which one you prefer. There's a switch on the back you need to have set correctly also. Maximum extension will help you hit those really low notes while losing a bit of output. Maximum output will lose some of the really low bass, but you'll get more volume from the more common mid and upper bass. I currently have mine set to max output, but maximum extension was cool also.

Enjoy.
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post #922 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PannyMann View Post

OK, YA GOT ME !!!!

I pulled the trigger just now and ordered an LFM-1 Plus. The price was right and the specs look good. I woke up this morning and it dawned on me that there is about a 99% 'hit rate" whenever I get this interested in something. I figured, what the heck, you KNOW you're going to end up buying so why agonise ? JUST DO IT and so it has been done.

Now for the wait......I think I'll go play golf everyday till it get's here.

Hi PannyMann,

Congrats on your purchase! Please check back with any questions or comments. There are lots of owners here that are more than willing to help you.

Golf was once my only hobby, now that I have found the thrill of Home Theater, I play golf three times a year vs. three times a week.

Larry
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post #923 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 10:18 AM
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Thanks for the kind words Larry. It seems that you and I are the only ones keeping this thread alive sometimes. I would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between the Plus and the EX. I think it would be good info for those on the fence between the two.

Yeah, we should have the thread re-named to:

"Official Outlaw Owners thread: presented by weverb & Larry"

A very good idea on writing about the differences between the Plus & EX. I'll work on that this weekend.

Larry
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post #924 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

Hi PannyMann,

Congrats on your purchase! Please check back with any questions or comments. There are lots of owners here that are more than willing to help you.

Golf was once my only hobby, now that I have found the thrill of Home Theater, I play golf three times a year vs. three times a week.

Larry

That sounds very familiar. I used to play golf all the time but it's now been relegated to once every two or three months. Between school and work it's hard to find enough consecutive daylight hours to play golf anyway, but with this HT obsession vying for my free time, golf has lost out big time in the last year or so. The sad part is I really don't play any worse now than I did before...
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post #925 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 10:38 AM
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The sad part is I really don't play any worse now than I did before...

My golf buddies refuse to believe that I only play three times a year as I shoot lower scores than when I played more often. I guess I forget all the bad stuff and it really irritates them when I win.

Home Theater has helped me more in golf than any golf lesson ever did.
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post #926 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

My golf buddies refuse to believe that I only play three times a year as I shoot lower scores than when I played more often. I guess I forget all the bad stuff and it really irritates them when I win.

Home Theater has helped me more in golf than any golf lesson ever did.

Same here! All of those goofy swing flaws tend to disappear and I just end up back to basics. The only thing that suffers sometimes is the short game. But last week I was 4 for 4 in sand saves, so even my short game seemed to improve last time after not playing for a while!

BTW, what's your index, out of curiosity?
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post #927 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 10:53 AM
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When I played and practiced all the time: USGA 9.6 playing on a par 72, 136 slope golf course. In other words, the low-mid 80's consistently with one or two rounds in the 70's per year.

Now, my highest score in the last two years (6 rounds) of HT mania: 78 with a low of 74! The lowest score of my life was a 70.
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post #928 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

When I played and practiced all the time: USGA 9.6 playing on a par 72, 136 slope golf course. In other words, the low-mid 80's consistently with one or two rounds in the 70's per year.

Now, my highest score in the last two years (6 rounds) of HT mania: 78 with a low of 74! The lowest score of my life was a 70.

Sounds like you're a very decent player - especially now that you don't play anymore . You have me beat in terms of lowest ever, though on average we seem pretty even. I'm a 9.x right now (not sure exactly) and I'm a high seventies to mid eighties player as well. My lowest round was I think 74 or 75 though. I figure I'm good enough not to make a fool of myself in front of other people (usually), but I know I'm not good enough to be really impressive.

I think it helps to play less often because I don't take things so darn seriously. It's not that I don't care now, but in the high school days I was so tough on myself that sometimes it ended up not even being fun. Now I still try, but it's easier to shrug off the mistakes and just enjoy myself (part of this could also be a general increase in emotional maturity over the last few years).
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post #929 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

Yeah, we should have the thread re-named to:

"Official Outlaw Owners thread: presented by weverb & Larry"

Now that's funny!

Analog: Pioneer SX-950, CT-F9191, AD797MCPS, PL-707, RH-65, RG-1, SR-202, Monitor 10/HE-500 hp's
Digital: Laptop, M2tech Young, Oppo 83, Simaudio i5.3, Dali Mentor
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post #930 of 7341 Old 09-19-2008, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffrey r View Post

Congrats--you should love it. My EX has been kick-ass since I got it a couple of months ago. I love watching my wife's reaction when our family room shakes and rattles when watching movies. It has been a significant improvement in sound quality over my old reliable SVS PB1-ISD, so I am very pleased.

Don't forget, it will likely come stock in maximum extension mode (one port plugged), but try that out along with maximum output mode to see which one you prefer. There's a switch on the back you need to have set correctly also. Maximum extension will help you hit those really low notes while losing a bit of output. Maximum output will lose some of the really low bass, but you'll get more volume from the more common mid and upper bass. I currently have mine set to max output, but maximum extension was cool also.

Enjoy.

As promised, played golf till sundown and met some buds afterwards. Looks like I'm going to have a new subwoofer get tofether in the next couple of weeks. They guys are already impressd with my setup, wait until they get a dose of some REAL bass. LOL !! I can't wait.

I like to tinker so yes, I will try all of the different configurations. It didn't even occur to me that there was a switch that had to be re-set according to ouput/extension config. I like to listen to music but also have to watch my latest netflix delivery so I think I'll start out with max output. The movie soundtracks are mostly enjoyable as well so I'll go with the max extension mode a little later.

Thanks for the tips, that should help getting it set up and trying differnt modes much easier.

I think, therefore I am single.
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